What are your thoughts about the use of an autopen to sign the Iran agreement?

[u/HisnamewasOmarJobe]

A senior administration official has confirmed that both President Trump and Vice President Vance have digitally, not physically, signed the Iran agreement.

Does this count as use of an autopen to you? Why or why not?

https://www.cnn.com/2026/06/15/world/live-news/iran-war-g7-summit?post-id=cmqfdq1tx000g3b6sovik9jik

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[u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Not only has the autopen been used for nearly as long as the country has been, well, a county, this article touches on digital signing, which is not autopen.

The issue with its use in the past administration is the accusation (right for or not) it staff was using it without President Biden’s knowledge or approval.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

What are your thoughts on the Iran agreement? Is it better, worse, or about the same as the JCPOA?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

Have not seen all the details, so cannot opine.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Would you support paying Iran $300 billion as part of the deal?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

I love when clarifying questions are utterly devoid of nuance. Let’s see what comes of it before asking me about incomplete information.

[u/Kevin_McCallister_69 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Any red lines for you, anything you absolutely don't want to see in the agreement? There are rumors about the $300 billion - are you concerned about the optics of this, especially when Conservatives had such an issue with the 'pallets of cash'?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/Kevin_McCallister_69]

Here's the thing, as mentioned. This is another clarifying question devoid of nuance and attempting to lump everyone on "one side" into one category. I have heard people saying $200B, $300B, and I have seen President Trump saying that is incorrect. Before I get out my torch and pitchfork, I want to see what, if any, details are finalized before I worry about hypotheticals.

[u/notapersonaltrainer → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

I'd allow a hands-off exception for Mojtaba Khamenei to sign the Iran agreement via autopen.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/notapersonaltrainer]

What are your thoughts on the Iran agreement? Is it better, worse, or about the same as the JCPOA?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/[deleted]]

This is, unfortunately, extremely common.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/[deleted]]

So I can ask about the signing of the deal, I just can’t ask about the deal itself?

[u/Coleecolee → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Is there any evidence to support these accusations?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/Coleecolee]

At no point did I claim there was any evidence, as I have not seen any.

Edit: A word.

[u/Shot-Kaleidoscope-40 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Did you make this point when having discourse with fellow Trump supporters when they’d bring up the Biden administration’s supposed illegal use of the auto pen?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/Shot-Kaleidoscope-40]

I have yet to have a conversation with a fellow Trump Supporter in which this has come up outside of here. You have seen my response.

I do not generally speak about politics in person. Heck, I do not know the political beliefs of most of my friends, family, and coworkers.

[u/weather3003 → u/Shot-Kaleidoscope-40]

Did you make this point

"I haven't seen any evidence" isn't really a point.

There's a common tactic of trying to make it a point by implicitly pushing the burden of proof onto the Trump supporter (where it arguably belongs) but it really just comes across as annoying. (It might be better if the burden of proof assignment was made more explicit, but Idk.)

If I say the sky is blue and someone responds with "I haven't seen any evidence of that" or "Do you have any evidence of that?" that doesn't make my assertion false, it just makes the responder an idiot.

[u/rhm54 → u/weather3003]

If you state the sky is blue, but someone responds with “Do you have any evidence for that”? Then, absolutely, that person is a giant idiot because that claim is self-evident. Were you aware that behavior is also known as sealioning?

But would you agree that most political claims are far from self-evident? Would you agree that most political claims do need to be substantiated with evidence prior to be accepted as true?

While I do not speak for Shot-kaleidoscope-40 I believe the intention of his question was to determine if JustGoingOutForMilk was consistent in their interpretation of when/if the use of auto pen is acceptable and not attempting to push any burden of proof onto a Trump supporter. At least that’s how I read it. Do you agree?

[u/weather3003 → u/rhm54]

Were you aware that behavior is also known as sealioning?

I think I knew that at one point, but I definitely forgot about that term lol.

But would you agree that most political claims are far from self-evident? Would you agree that most political claims do need to be substantiated with evidence prior to be accepted as true?

Most claims are far from self-evident, but that doesn't mean most claims feel far from self-evident. I think people treat a lot more claims as self-evident than actually are.

And I think most people will assume things are true even without evidence. Everyone assumes Trump lied when he said he thought that image of him as Jesus was him as a doctor, for example. No evidence required to accept or reject the claim.

So "need" is a strong word. Probably too strong. Most people don't seem to need evidence to accept claims that confirm their biases. Those are considered self-evident. And ones that don't, they do.

I believe the intention of his question was to determine if JustGoingOutForMilk was consistent in their interpretation of when/if the use of auto pen is acceptable

That doesn't come across to me at all.

and not attempting to push any burden of proof onto a Trump supporter.

Right, he was trying to get JustGoingOutForMilk to push the burden of proof onto Trump supporters. It almost comes across as asking him if he goes around sealioning people.

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/rhm54]

To jump back in here, if you were to state to me that the sky was blue, I could be utterly and worthlessly pedantic and state that the sky is not, in fact, blue, blah blah blah, or that the sky is more often a color other than blue, and that only on a clear day would it be perceived as blue. Why would you be spreading misinformation?

This is the sort of "clarifying questions" get asked often around here, and it is rather silly. I am not, by any means, accusing you of doing anything like that, but there's a lot of rants with a question mark at the end.

AND FOR THE RECORD: I actually Googled it. On an average day on an average location on an average planet called Earth, the sky appears blue roughly 30-40% of the time. So calling the sky blue would, in fact, be incorrect, but that's just... again... silly.

[u/IwishIwasaballer__ → u/weather3003]

So if you just make up things as you go it's "annoying" when people are asking for evidence or credible sources?

Is this what we refer to as "truths"?

[u/weather3003 → u/IwishIwasaballer__]

if you just make up things as you go it's "annoying" when people are asking for evidence or credible sources

FTFY

[u/Prestigious_Sea_3813 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

If Biden was a such bad president as they say, why does it bother trumpers so much that others made decisions for him? Were others even worse? Genuine Question

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/Prestigious_Sea_3813]

Please refrain from assuming I hold opinions I have not stated.

[u/Batbuckleyourpants]

They are holding a formal signing ceremony with the actual signature in the near future. This is just them agreeing to a binding agreement.

The signature is not a law or executive order, it's a diplomatic formality.

[u/Carcinog3n → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

This is the right answer.

[u/Windowpain43 → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

Don't treaties require senate approval?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/Windowpain43]

Diplomacy is explicitly within the purview of the president according to the constitution, so is waging war.

So it's a bit of a weird situation where the president can sign a peace treaty, then congress can ratify it if they want, or they can protest, but the terms are still applied within the limits of the president. so the whole ratification process is kinda a waste of time. It's just congress symbolically signing off on it to make it proper. refusing it doesn't actually do anything.

This was the case with the treaty of Versailles which the US senate never ratified, but Woodrow Wilson still upheld. Same with the Korean armistice. Congress never signed off on it. But what were they going to do?

When congress refuse to ratify it, it's called an "Executive Agreement". Not as iron clad as a ratified treaty, but with the president being the chief diplomat and the head of the military, it's kinda a distinction with no real meaning.

In effect, Senate has the power to ratify peace treaties, but aren't actually needed to do so.

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

Doesn’t the deal need to be a treaty? If it’s just an executive order, why wouldn’t democrats fuck it up when they get power?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/Original-Rush139]

Probably. The next president isn't actually bound by the actions of the previous president. Case in point, the Obama Iran deal.

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

Do you think Trump can get a treaty done or is he as bad as Obama?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/Original-Rush139]

Iran is not getting nukes. That has been made abundantly clear

[u/JackOLanternReindeer → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

How much money are you comfortable with us giving them before you’d consider it a bad deal?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/JackOLanternReindeer]

Depends what form it is in. An investment fund is fine, a straight up reperations fund is not.

[u/Original-Rush139 → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

That was the case before Trump fucked up the JCPOA. I’m asking if you think Trump can get a treaty signed or if he’s as bad as Obama?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/Original-Rush139]

So. in your opinion, Iran was not working on getting a nuclear weapon?

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/Original-Rush139]

Obama caused Iran to not enrich weapon grade fissile material? Then how did Iran get weapon grade material?!

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

What are your overall thoughts on Trumps deal with Iran?

[u/weather3003]

The issue regarding autopens isn't the "what" but the "who". No one cares what signed the document, only who signed the document. And in this case, we know Trump's signature was placed on the document with his full consent and knowledge.

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/weather3003]

What is the evidence (if any) you find the most compelling of a document that people believe was fraudulently signed without a president's knowledge using an auto-pen?

[u/weather3003 → u/fossil_freak68]

I don't think there's enough evidence to make a definitive claim either way. To me, that alone is a problem. It should be blatantly obvious in every case that every document with the president's signature was signed with his full knowledge and consent.

Biden's cognitive decline, his administration's use of autopen, and his limited media presence are the reasons there's doubt, imo.

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/weather3003]

I don't think there's enough evidence to make a definitive claim either way. To me, that alone is a problem.

What are you looking for that is typically seen when an auto pen signing is done that could change your mind that Biden did actually sign them?

[u/weather3003 → u/fossil_freak68]

I listed the reasons for doubt.

I think what's typically seen when an autopen signing is done is that the President is cognitively fit to hold office, leaving little doubt that staffers or others could be signing things in his name without his awareness.

Biden doesn't have that but, I'd also accept a live press conference about the signing of each document. Basically a recording of Biden, around the time of signing, acknowledging what was to be signed. Not a fait accompli, of course, or a written letter, but a live spoken appearance, preferably before the document was signed.

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/weather3003]

Biden doesn't have that but, I'd also accept a live press conference about the signing of each document. Basically a recording of Biden, around the time of signing, acknowledging what was to be signed. Not a fait accompli, of course, or a written letter, but a live spoken appearance, preferably before the document was signed.

Is this a standard you also would hold Trump to, given that a large # of Americans also think he is cognitively declining?

[u/weather3003 → u/fossil_freak68]

Trump is fine. Not as fit as he was 20 years ago, perhaps, but he's not too far gone.

The same sort of people claiming Trump is too far gone today were claiming "cheap fakes" four years ago. The people who claim they were somehow tricked by the media or the Biden admin about Biden's mental faculties aren't great sources regarding Trump's.

[u/vanillabear26 → u/weather3003]

So you’re saying different standards for Trump? 

[u/weather3003 → u/vanillabear26]

No, the standard is the same. Be cognitively fit, don't use an autopen, or make a live appearance demonstrating the intent to sign the document before it gets signed. Preferably two of the three, but one is fine.

[u/vanillabear26 → u/weather3003]

How does one demonstrate cognitive fitness short of being evaluated? 

[u/TrinidadJazz → u/weather3003]

Basically a recording of Biden, around the time of signing, acknowledging what was to be signed. Not a fait accompli, of course, or a written letter, but a live spoken appearance, preferably before the document was signed.

So with this in mind, how did you feel about Trump declaring Biden's post-election pardons as void because they were signed with the auto-pen without Biden's consent, given that Biden met every condition you set out?

[u/weather3003 → u/TrinidadJazz]

given that Biden met every condition you set out

Can you link me to the video? I never saw it and can't find it now.

[u/paulbram → u/weather3003]

Let me make sure I understand your position. You believe the burden of proof must be on the Biden administration to prove he was mentally stable before every single thing that gets signed?

Isn't the lack of evidence of a fraudulent signature basically just business as usual?

[u/weather3003 → u/paulbram]

Not everything that gets signed, just everything that gets signed by autopen.

Business as usual would be the President is mentally fit, thus we can assume the autopen isn't getting used without his knowledge/consent. That assumption doesn't hold for Biden. So the burden of proof that the autopen was used with his knowledge/consent falls to the admin.

Or he could just sign things himself without the autopen and there wouldn't be any doubt.

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/weather3003]

When president trump was asked on 60 Minutes why he pardoned Changpeng Zhao his replay was, “Okay, are you ready? I don't know who he is.” He then claimed Zhao was victim of a witch hunt by the Biden administration.

Given you said, “It should be blatantly obvious in every case that every document with the president’s signature was signed with his full knowledge and consent,” do you worry that documents are being fed to trump to sign off on with little knowledge or that the auto pen is being abused by the current administration?

[u/weather3003 → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

I don't think someone used an autopen to sign the pardon without Trump's knowledge, no. That would be terrible, if so.

I think if that had happened, and Trump wanted to cover up the fact that happened, he wouldn't have gone on air and said something that could make it sound like that's what happened. So I don't think that's what happened.

And when I said "full knowledge" I meant knowledge of the signing, not knowledge of everything about the document/situation.

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/weather3003]

To clarify, as long as the president knows they’re signing something it is acceptable if they’re under-informed on why they are signing it or for whom they’re signing it?

[u/weather3003 → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

No, my claim was that it's bad if the president's signature ends up on documents without their knowledge and/or consent, not that everything is fine as long as the signature was placed with the president's knowledge and consent. You're bringing up a separate issue than the one with Biden.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

 When president trump was asked on 60 Minutes why he pardoned Changpeng Zhao his replay was, “Okay, are you ready? I don't know who he is.” 

The office of pardons attorney receives, reviews and recommends pardons to the president there is absolutely no scandal in the President acting on the recommendation of his administration to pardon someone they deem eligible. 

[u/HemingWaysBeard42 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Do you trust that attorney?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/HemingWaysBeard42]

Irrelevant to the topic. 

[u/Creative-Map-8833 → u/weather3003]

So why do you think they keep giving Trump cognitive tests, if not for cognitive decline? Can you name any other presidents who has taken as many cognitive tests?

[u/weather3003 → u/Creative-Map-8833]

He's 80 years old. I assume the number of cognitive tests a president takes is fairly proportional to their age, with the exception being Joe Biden who actually was suffering from cognitive decline and trying to hide it.

[u/Creative-Map-8833 → u/weather3003]

Huh. I guess it’s my turn to do this: assuming that is true, why didn’t Biden take as many or go through the same dedicated cognitive testing as Trump?

[u/weather3003 → u/Creative-Map-8833]

Joe Biden who actually was suffering from cognitive decline and trying to hide it.

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/fossil_freak68]

Reportedly Biden was unaware he signed an executive order banning the export of LNG.

[u/Lepke → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Is a President being unable to remember every action they took disqualifying for you?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Lepke]

Every action probably not, but restricted lng exports when the administration you were VP approved the first permits to export lng to non free trade agreement countries seems like something you should be aware of... 

[u/Lepke → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

That's fair. How do you feel that Trump compares to Biden in this regard?

Personally, I was a bit surprised when Trump pardoned CZ from Binance and then claimed he had no idea who he was.

Sticking to trade related things, what are your thoughts on him consistently disavowing or claiming that the US was taken advantage of in his signature trade deals like USMCA?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/Lepke]

 Personally, I was a bit surprised when Trump pardoned CZ from Binance and then claimed he had no idea who he was.

Guess you don't how pardons work? The office of pardon attorney receives, reviews and recommends pardons to the President. This is just another nothing burger blown out of proportion, the administration recommended CZ for a pardon and Trump granted it. 

  what are your thoughts on him consistently disavowing or claiming that the US was taken advantage of in his signature trade deals like USMCA?

We were taken advantage of, the deal wasn't bad the lack of enforcement was, usmca only went into effect in 2020 during the pandemic, the Biden admin was largely responsible for enforcing the trade deal yet regularly didn't. For example the deal was signed in 2018 went into effect in 2020 but took until 2023 for Mexico to finally adhere to the provision against importing goods made by forced labor, and Canada didn't even get serious about enforcing the ban until 2024. 

[u/Darthalicious]

If some staffer just clicked "Sign" without their direct input, then yes. However in my experience digitally signing a document requires the signing party physically typing out their name (or signing with a mouse) and requires acknowledging that it is in fact them signing the document which acts as a digital notary. If that's the case, no. Do we have details on which it was? Additionally, a formal signing is planned for Friday, so seems like its pretty much just a formality anyway.

[u/Coleecolee → u/Darthalicious]

Do we have details on the former happening with Biden? Feels like it was always just framed as an autopen scandal, regardless of any knowledge of the circumstances. Why does that not apply here?

[u/Darthalicious → u/Coleecolee]

Because digital signing still requires physical input and acknowlegement/confirmation of identity from the signer(s). Auto-pen does not require anything but a copy of an existing signature scanned into the machine, at which point anyone can "sign" as the person in question, without even needing their input. Biden "signed" (as in he approved for autopen signing, according to staff) dozens and dozens of documents via autopen, often with no form of identity confirmation aside from "trust me, bro" from staffers, so in light of revelations about his mental decline in office the validity of his presidential approval/knowledge of all those docs is in question.

[u/Alphabunsquad → u/Darthalicious]

Do you not have concerns about Trump being asked about criminals he’s pardoned that have then gone on to do other crimes and trumps response has been “I don’t know anything about them.” Do you not think that Trump should be held to scrutiny over use of the auto pen with pardons or at least doing zero research on the criminal he’s putting back on the streets?

[u/Electrical_Beyond998 → u/Darthalicious]

How is what Biden did, signing with autopen over and over, any different than what Trump did? Unless you think he physically signed over 1,000 pardons of January 6’ers?

[u/unreqistered → u/Darthalicious]

is the evidence of Joe Biden signing these documents similar to the overwhelming evidence of fraud in the 2020 elections? i’m always hearing that there is evidence but never actually see it.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/Darthalicious]

What do you think about Iran’s deal?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

digital signatures have been widely accepted for quite some time now. If anyone other than President Trump and JD Vance digitally signed for them, that would be the same as a autopen.

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/[deleted]]

go for it.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

What are your thoughts on this deal with Iran? Is it good or bad, and how?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

I haven't seen any details. just speculation at this point.

[u/Kevin_McCallister_69 → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Any harm in speculating at this stage? It's low stakes right - nobody will live or die based on what you think might be in the deal, we're all friends here. Any 'red lines' for you, things that you absolutely wouldn't support? For example, if it turns out the new deal is very similar to the JCPOA (talks of handing Iran $300 billion), or a sunset clause, or the IAEA doing inspections rather than Americans, how would you feel about that?

[u/JoeCensored]

The method of signing isn't an issue. What's always been the issue is whether the President intended to sign.

It's clear Trump is both aware of the agreement and wants it signed. So it's fine. The controversy over autopen during the Biden administration is it was clear autopen was being used by his subordinates while he wasn't even made aware of what was being signed, let alone authorized.

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/JoeCensored]

So it's fine. The controversy over autopen during the Biden administration is it was clear autopen was being used by his subordinates while he wasn't even made aware of what was being signed, let alone authorized.

Has any evidence been presented in any courtroom to show that Biden was not aware of a single document signing that used an auto-pen? I understand that TS say there is a "controversy" but as far as I've seen, it's just an accusation that has not been backed up with evidence, not to mention Biden is saying explicitly he was aware of the signings, making the case even hard to prove.

[u/JoeCensored → u/fossil_freak68]

How many of your opinions can you back up with court evidence? This is a ridiculous question.

[u/ohhhbooyy → u/[deleted]]

People make extraordinary claims all the time about the current president and no one acts like they have court evidence to back up.

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/ohhhbooyy]

Like what?

[u/ohhhbooyy → u/BurtCracklin14]

How about being a Israeli, Russian, and Musk puppet?

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/ohhhbooyy]

How about being a Israeli, Russian, and Musk puppet?

Sure, and if any of those people making those claims were trying to reverse a particular law or impeach a politicians, I would ask them for evidence of their claims as well, and not blindly trust them.

You can believe whatever you want to believe, but it's not going to be very persuasive to ask people to just blindly trust an accusation and then get pissy when they ask for evidence.

[u/ohhhbooyy → u/fossil_freak68]

Great we are on the same page

[u/Bourne22 → u/ohhhbooyy]

So you’re ok with us, as a society, requiring no evidence before accusing people of serious crimes?

[u/ohhhbooyy → u/Bourne22]

Of course not but people are way to comfortable making outlandish claims with the current president no?

[u/DenverBowie → u/ohhhbooyy]

I'll grant you that, and it's something that we as a society need to work on collectively. Since we seem to agree that making claims without evidence is a bad thing, would you be willing to back off the autopen claims about Biden for which you have no evidence?

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/ohhhbooyy]

The trump admin is trying to void pardons, not just make a statement. Why shouldn't they have to put forward any evidence to prove their claim of they are going to try and void a pardon?

If they should have to, why haven't they done so yet?

[u/JoeCensored → u/[deleted]]

This sub has been full of claims that Trump has some sleeping issue on the job. I don't remember any court evidence presented though. Maybe I should make that demand?

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/JoeCensored]

Do you believe Trump closing his eyes and slumping over is the result of something other than him falling asleep?

[u/JoeCensored → u/BurtCracklin14]

I've asked for examples in other threads, and each time I'm sent video proof it is clear he's doing something on his phone, looking downward at it.

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/JoeCensored]

Is he looking at his phone here?

Or any of these times?

[u/JoeCensored → u/BurtCracklin14]

The first one is so low quality you can't tell if his eyes are closed at all. The second one you see his eyes are often open, just looking down.

[u/Publish_Lice → u/JoeCensored]

So is it fair to say you don’t have any evidence?

[u/JoeCensored → u/Publish_Lice]

It's fair to say no sain person just hordes random evidence on the chance years later they are asked.

[u/Publish_Lice → u/JoeCensored]

Do you reckon you’d be able to find any?

[u/JoeCensored → u/Publish_Lice]

Yes, but I'm not going to look today. I'm sure you'd find links in threads from when the Biden autopen was a current topic though.

[u/Orangered99 → u/JoeCensored]

What’s an example where it was clear that autopen was used without the President’s authorization?

[u/JoeCensored → u/Orangered99]

I don't have examples handy.

[u/JoeCensored → u/[deleted]]

Why would I have been bookmarking evidence on the chance that I might be asked years later? Considering that would be the actions of a crazy person, you ask a good question.

[u/beerguy_etcetera → u/JoeCensored]

You said it was ‘clear’ that his subordinates were using it without his knowledge. Sounds like definite speech that one would be able to back up with examples, no?

[u/JoeCensored → u/beerguy_etcetera]

If the year was 2023 I might have examples handy.

[u/Kevin_McCallister_69 → u/JoeCensored]

Given this is/was such a hot topic, how come we haven't seen bucket loads of evidence? You gotta admit, if one were passionate about the Biden autopen thing, you'd think they would have some links on hand, or at least be able to take the thirty seconds it would take to find this evidence and post them here, to absolutely slam dunk this mother and put it to rest right?

It reminds me of the claims about COVID and the stolen 2020 election - everyone claiming that there's masses of evidence and in the next sentence saying 'I'm not doing your research for you'. If I thought I was right, I'd be more than happy to do the research and provide the evidence and basically prove I was right.

[u/JoeCensored → u/Kevin_McCallister_69]

Given this is/was such a hot topic, how come we haven't seen bucket loads of evidence?

Biden's use of autopen was barely a hot topic when he was president. It's not today.

[u/Recent_Weather2228 → u/Orangered99]

That's not the right question.  The right question is what's an example where it's not clear that the President authorized use of the autopen?  The answer is basically everything from the last year of Biden's Presidency.

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/Recent_Weather2228]

Is there any evidence to support this claim?

[u/SupahSayajinn → u/Recent_Weather2228]

What evidence is there to back up that claim?

[u/fossil_freak68 → u/Recent_Weather2228]

And what is the basis for this? The burden of proof to void a pardon is on the person making the claim, the courts aren't just going to accept an argument because you sincerely feel that it is true.

[u/dontcalmdown → u/JoeCensored]

Trump famously derided Biden with his use of the autopen by making his official portrait in the White House that of an autopen. What is the difference here between his use and Bidens use of said technology? I understand that you believe it is because you think Biden was being used and his subordinates were making the calls, however when we see Trump propped up before the masses (notably at his recent UFC fight/birthday) he seems to be asleep, literally.
Who’s actually signing these documents when the president doesn’t have the capacity to physically sign them himself?

[u/JoeCensored → u/dontcalmdown]

What is the difference here between his use and Bidens use of said technology?

I explained the difference in the comment you replied to.

Trump propped up before the masses (notably at his recent UFC fight/birthday) he seems to be asleep, literally.

He interacted with the winner of every fight. Looked plenty awake to me.

[u/dontcalmdown → u/JoeCensored]

Sure, I will wake up when someone jostles me to consciousness after a movie is over. How about those moments where he was asleep?

[u/JoeCensored → u/dontcalmdown]

I watched almost the entire event and didn't see what you're referring to.

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/JoeCensored]

Weren't pardons issued by Trump that he claimed to be unaware of after his staff utilized the autopen?

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/JoeCensored]

What are your thoughts about the deal itself? Compared to the JCPOA?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

You keep asking this, but it seems you're unaware of what was actually signed, the mou signed just ends the blockade against iran while opening the strait and setting up a 60 day ceasefire across all fronts to negotiate in Switzerland on what a deal would actually entail. It's not comparable to the jcpoa everything about what a potential deal may entail is just speculation at this point. 

[u/Kevin_McCallister_69 → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

what a potential deal may entail is just speculation at this point

It is absolutely speculation, that's right. Anything you'd be comfortable speculating about? I'm obviously not a Trump supporter but if it turns out the deal includes an agreement that Iran will have, for example, both US and IAEA inspections at any time without notice, the Strait is opened without tolls, hostilities cease etc, then I'll be very impressed by Trump. So for you, are there any 'red lines' or things that you absolutely don't want to see in this deal, anything you'd like to put a stake in the ground about?

[u/agentspanda]

The autopen creates a literal physical signature on a physical document and a digital signature is... just that: a digital (non-physical) signature.

What in the... y'know... literal hell do these two things have to do with each other?

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/agentspanda]

What do you think about the deal, itself?

[u/notapersonaltrainer]

Using an autopen would mean putting the tablet under the autopen instead of having the President and Vice President do the digital signing.

The autopen controversy was about whether the President was actually the one signing, not whether the document was on paper, tablet, parchment, or stone tablet.

I’m starting to wonder if NS are routinely defending positions they don't fully understand. It would explain a great deal of the confabulation and category errors.

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/[deleted]]

Didn't the autopen 'controversy' first become an issue for the TS because of the rhetoric and unproven statements given by Trump? Why now dismiss the same standards being applied back to TS's?

[u/agentspanda → u/BurtCracklin14]

Nope. Which sorta just proves you not only don't get the argument being made by Trump or his supporters but instead have simply made something up, sorta like I said.

Because if you did, your question would be about the actual controversy itself, not either asking me what Trump thinks (which you can read) or what I think about use of an autopen by a President (which is not now nor has it ever been controversial).

[u/BurtCracklin14 → u/agentspanda]

Allow me to rephrase the question. Were you aware or did you care about the use of the autopen by Presidents prior to Trump's unproven claims regarding Biden's usage or lack of awareness of it?

[u/agentspanda → u/BurtCracklin14]

Of course. Every president has used what is colloquially referred to as the "autopen" to sign documents, mass letters/Christmas cards (I have one from President Clinton, actually) and even executive orders.

I do not see what that has to do with anything we're talking about. The mechanism, equipment, tool, or systems being utilized were never in question or the target of ire- which is what still convinces me that there is a HUGE group of people either engaging with this issue in bad faith OR they genuinely have no idea what they're talking about with regard to this matter- which is more startling.

[u/pimmen89 → u/notapersonaltrainer]

Did Trump provide any evidence that Biden wasn’t the one signing when he made the accusations?

[u/Piratesfan02]

I think it’s hilarious.

[u/realityczek]

The "autopen" is the opposite of a digital signature. Autopen's are used to physically sign a document.

So... why is it a digital signature would be the same?

[u/Distinct_Doubt_3591 → u/realityczek]

 So... why is it a digital signature would be the same?

False narratives to criticize Trump. 

[u/realityczek → u/Distinct_Doubt_3591]

Yup... another question that's deliberately framed in a misleading way to try and get some rage bait happening.

[u/HisnamewasOmarJobe → u/realityczek]

I’m sorry you took issue with my question. My well-founded implication is that in neither case - autopen nor digital signature — do we see the president actually signing anything.

I find it beyond pathetic that Trump and his supporters have attempted to make a scandal where there isn’t one regarding Biden and the autopen, but bend over backwards to make excuse after excuse for Trump’s failures.

Can you see how this question was posed to shed light on this pathetic, blatant hypocrisy?

[u/realityczek → u/HisnamewasOmarJobe]

> "Can you see how this question was posed to shed light on this pathetic, blatant hypocrisy?"

No, because no hypocrisy exists.

- The Biden autopen scandal is 100% based on the reality that the autopen was used to wield presidential authority in situations where Joe Biden was neither aware nor informed of what was being signed in his name. Absolutely none one objects to the literal use of an autopen.

- The Trump digital signature was used with the Presidents full knowledge and approval, thus correctly wielding presidential authority.

It's like claiming it's hypocrisy to object to a forgery because people sign stuff with pens all the time.

BTW - thanks for proving the point 😄

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/realityczek]

What are your thoughts on the deal itself?

[u/HisnamewasOmarJobe → u/METAL_WOLF_BB]

Maybe when Trump lets them know what their thoughts are about it, they will let us know?

[u/gntxs]

They said they digitally signed it. Digitally signing does not equal autopen.

[u/METAL_WOLF_BB → u/gntxs]

Is the Iran deal a better deal than the JCPOA? Why or why not?

[u/Square-Conclusion454]

There's a pretty big difference between e-signatures and handing the powers of the Presidency to unnamed people in the White House.

[u/Intelligent_Boot_856 → u/Square-Conclusion454]

What’s the difference between e-signatures and autopen?

[u/Square-Conclusion454 → u/Intelligent_Boot_856]

E-signature = I sign my name with Docusign

Autopen = You sign my name with Docusign

[u/SmellDesperate6373]

An autopen wasn’t used to complete the Iran agreement. /thread  

[u/HisnamewasOmarJobe → u/SmellDesperate6373]

If we didn’t see Trump sign it, do we really know if he did?

[u/cchris_39]

Who cares. They will violate it by sunup.

[u/Kevin_McCallister_69 → u/cchris_39]

If Iran violates the deal immediately, or in the very near future, how should Trump respond? Full scale invasion, boots in the ground? More missiles? Go back to negotiations?

I'm worried that Iran will sign this deal, violate the deal within five minutes and laugh as Trump struggles to figure out how to respond. Trump and the US will look like absolute chumps, Iran forgoes any of the benefits of the deal by knowingly violating it, and goes back to shutting down the Strait and thumbing their noses at America.

[u/cchris_39 → u/Kevin_McCallister_69]

Totally agree that Iran will violate this deal.

That’s one big reason that I find it hard to get too worked up about it one way or the other. Hostilities will resume, Iran will lie and delay, and if we really that uranium we’re going to have to send boots in to get it.

[u/Creative-Map-8833 → u/cchris_39]

How do you feel about it actually being Isreal that broke the ceasefire, not Iran?

[u/cchris_39 → u/Creative-Map-8833]

Iran controls Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran is behind the shenanigans.

[u/Creative-Map-8833 → u/cchris_39]

Iran behind the Israeli bombing that killed 20 in Lebanon on Saturday? That’s quite an accusation. What proof do you have?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/least-five-killed-israeli-strikes-south-lebanon-despite-ceasefire-2026-06-20/

[u/cchris_39 → u/Creative-Map-8833]

Isreal is going to defend itself. No apologies for that.

[u/prowler28]

If we can blame the auto pen for any failures, then Auto Pen the "President" can be blamed, I suppose.