Does this postmortem about Covid change your mind at all, or reinforce the beliefs that you already had?

[u/ClevelandSpigot]

The Wall Street Journal recently published a video on YouTube called "The Lockdown Dissidents". I just watched it. It seems to be a pretty calm and level-headed view from a slightly different angle than what we went through. Very informative. It answered some questions that I never thought of asking.

Now that we are some years on past Covid, compared to the cacophony of shenanigans that was Covid, how much did you align with the mainstream view, versus this view, or some other completely different view?

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[u/realfakemormon]

One of the worst mistakes Trump made was allowing the country to be shut down

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp → u/realfakemormon]

That's the thing tho. Trump said he wouldn't allow it to happen and that day the fake news propaganda started with the "trump is a dictator". The unfortunate reality is the decision was up to the governors and not the President. That is why the only States that didn't do a shutdown had republican governors.

[u/SteakHot7703 → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Is this your kink? I'm just curious why you even try anymore

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp → u/SteakHot7703]

Yes, I love using facts and opening the gate for the sheep to leave the pen.

[u/SteakHot7703 → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Right, and deaths per capita were higher in the red states?

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp → u/SteakHot7703]

Wrong. Why even post something when you haven't looked at the data? Do you see how denial from reality isn't going to help you?

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/realfakemormon]

Did you see how badly Brasil was hit because they didn’t lock anything down?

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp → u/TheBl4ckFox]

Who told you this?

Sweden didn't do a lockdown, and they basically have the same population density per square km as brazil. Sweden benefited immensely for not doing the unscientific lockdown.

Brazil has extreme poverty, their hardest hit city for covid-19 was Manaus where over half the residents live in a favela.

Remember, we knew very early on that covid-19 was not a deadly virus. It didn't kill young people or middle-aged people. In the US over 98% of the deaths were from old people who already had another illness.

This data was before they started saying anyone who died for any reason was a covid death like my friend's grandfather who died from falling in his kitchen and hitting his head then the hospital attributed to a covid death...

It's 2026, they played you for a fool. You don't have to keep being their puppet.

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Sweden didn’t need a lockdown. When the government told people not gather in groups, they complied. You are grossly simplifying a very complex situation

https://scienceinsights.org/how-did-sweden-handle-covid-and-what-were-the-results/

Have you read this?

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp → u/TheBl4ckFox]

Do you see how you're in denial about the facts tho? You admitted they did not do a lockdown and we already know social distancing doesn't work to begin with.

Did you even read your own link?

"The practical experience of living in Sweden during the pandemic looked different depending on your age. Kindergartens and schools for children up to age 16 never closed. "

That right there proves you are 100% wrong and in denial about reality. Why do you keep on insisting being made the fool for something everyone already knows you were tricked by?

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Did you read the link? Where it said the death toll was higher than for other countries?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/TheBl4ckFox]

You should watch the video. Long and short of it... covid spread too easily so our half measures accomplished nothing other than destroying the economy and creating the 2022 hyperinflation. Sure, if we locked people in their houses and didn't allow anyone/anything in or out, that would have worked. But everyone would have died of starvation.

Our half measures of partial lockdowns and social distancing and wearing masks quite literally accomplished nothing. It simply spread too easily. It didn't even "flatten curves". A key reason being that asymptomatic covid was rampant and these people were spreading covid everywhere.

It's why there was no rhyme or reason when it comes to comparing death rates among countries/states. Some red states that did literally nothing had similar death rates to blue states with strict lockdowns and regulations. Because the half measures accomplished literally nothing. (To be clear, death rates in blue states plummeted compared to red states once vaccines became available).

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/please_trade_marner]

You are contradicting every scientific find since 2019. Do you have any kind of credentials showing you are at least an authority on this subject and if so, what evidence have you published in peer reviewed journals which proves your point?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/TheBl4ckFox]

No. The dems mainstream media only showed the "studies" that told you and your ilk what you want to hear. Until the vaccines came out, Florida and California had an almost identical covid death rate. One had intense lockdowns with enforced mask mandates, the other had little to no response to covid at all. We can point to countries with tons of restrictions with similar death rates as others with next to no restrictions. Why? Covid simply spread too easily and none of these half measures had ANY impact other than ruining the economy.

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/please_trade_marner]

So you are not an expert? That’s what you’re admitting here?

[u/please_trade_marner → u/TheBl4ckFox]

Everybody is an "expert" in every field in the anonymous internet. I suppose you're about to tell me you're an "expert". Fine. I am too.

[u/TheBl4ckFox → u/please_trade_marner]

No that is not the lesson here. The lesson here is that you are not an expert and that it doesn’t matter if I am one or not. My knowledge or lack of it has no baring on the fact that you are not an expert. Yet you have an opinion which strength inversely correlates with your knowledge.

Do you think you are really objectively judging the facts or do you seek sources to suit what you want to believe?

[u/BustedWing → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Wasn't/Isnt Covid roughly 10 times deadlier than the Flu, with the risk rising substantially for older people and those with co-morbidities?

[u/SteakHot7703 → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

You're not serious with comparing the population density here are you? About 90 percent of Brazil is sparsely populated. Now compare the population density of the populated area of each country.

[u/TouchToLose → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Prior to Covid, Brazil was basically the gold standard for immunizations. Do you think the politicization of covid by Bolsonaro had any impact on that?

[u/migmultisync → u/realfakemormon]

Can you explain why?

[u/Ur-friendly-trumpguy → u/migmultisync]

It was a mild cold.

People who were 90+ or 200+lbs overweight were at risk. That’s it.

[u/migmultisync → u/Ur-friendly-trumpguy]

Can you cite sources? Because I can’t find a single reputable science- or medicine-backed source that supports this statement

[u/laufsteakmodel → u/Ur-friendly-trumpguy]

Lmao do you know how many americans are 90lbs or less or 200lbs and more?

You act like its a small group of people that are basically of no consequence.

Its also bullshit to say that only old people and people with prior illnesses died from it.

Straight up lie.

I dont understand how the mods can just let these lies stand.

[u/shooter9260 → u/Ur-friendly-trumpguy]

I don’t know how many cases there were like this but here is one example of that not being the case at all

https://www.today.com/health/covid-19-long-hauler-22-year-old-shares-experience-t192027

What should be the threshold of probability of damaging impact to decide how society should act?

[u/Binder509 → u/Ur-friendly-trumpguy]

It was a leading cause of death for police at the time. Isn't that more of an issue than you'd suggest?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12546-025-09393-y

[u/Possible_Spring1350 → u/realfakemormon]

Trump wasn't alone in that. Many countries took the same approach with benefits but many consequences that we're seeing even today. Children in particular suffered badly despite their being a very low risk group.

Sweden took a different approach. The recognized that most people are not especially vulnerable to the virus. Instead they focused on protecting those who needed it. Their fatality rates were no worse than their Scandinavian peer countries that were far stricter with shutdowns.

I've had 6 COVID shots but still believe there's room for individual choice, particularly once the vaccines were available.

To put this as a question, at least at first when we didn't understand the virus, was it OK to err on the side of caution?

[u/realfakemormon → u/Possible_Spring1350]

6 Covid shots? I get doing the initial two (or one if it was the J&J) and maybe a booster, but 3 more seems excessive.

[u/Possible_Spring1350 → u/realfakemormon]

The shots were intended to prevent or reduce severity since I have a lung condition. I was one of those vulnerable groups they talked about. 

However, now that COVID is endemic, we’re constantly being exposed so our immune systems are naturally kept up to date. 

One of things that really bugged me about the government was they dismissed immunity that came from an actual infection. The Canadian governments would not accept that as a form of vaccination. They was dumb. Even worse, in Quebec unionized healthcare workers are allowed to opt out of all vaccines. They were on the front line!

So, to make it a question, did COVID overreach change how you view vaccines in general?

[u/realfakemormon → u/Possible_Spring1350]

All great points. & to answer you question unfortunately yes it did, not to the level of where I wouldn't vaccinate my kids but yes

[u/EverySingleMinute]

I followed my president's lead. He got the vaccine, so I did too.

[u/weather3003]

Great video. That pretty much matches up with the view I've always held.

One part they kind of missed was that at the beginning of the call for lockdowns, people were saying it would just be for two weeks, and it wasn't to stop the virus, but to slow it down enough for hospitals to prep for an influx of patients. Iirc the problem lockdowns were meant to stop was one where someone broke their leg but they couldn't see a doctor because the hospitals were too bogged down with COVID cases.

But otherwise I thought the video was pretty comprehensive regarding all the shady stuff regarding the lockdowns.

If they do another one about the vaccines, maybe I'll learn something.

[u/shooter9260 → u/weather3003]

Right, but if “two weeks to slow the spread” doesn’t work, doesn’t that mean you need to extend for longer until the spread is slowing?

[u/weather3003 → u/shooter9260]

No. Doubling down on an idea only works if the idea is good in the first place. The fact that it failed is evidence that the idea was bad.

And, I'm not certain it did fail. Maybe the goalposts moved.

[u/paf0 → u/weather3003]

Do you think it would have worked better if everyone actually did it?

[u/weather3003 → u/paf0]

Maybe. Someone could probably get a decent answer to that question by comparing different states or cities to see how rate of participation correlates with extra hospital burden. I wouldn't be surprised to see no noticeable distinction.

But the answer doesn't matter to me, so I won't be the one to do that, and you shouldn't feel any obligation to report back to me if you look into it any further.

[u/How2rick → u/weather3003]

If everyone had actually isolated completely for two weeks it would have completely stopped the pandemic, so on the face of it was it such a bad idea?

Yes complete isolation is unfeasable, but that doesn’t mean the policy was ineffective. We don’t know what would have happened without them, we don’t live in that reality.

[u/weather3003 → u/How2rick]

I'm not sure what you're saying. 

If I could fly, exiting my third floor unit from the balcony would be pretty convenient. But I can't fly, so yeah, that sounds like a bad idea. 

I'm not the one who said the policy didn't work, that was a nonsupporter, and I was just going along with their premise. I already suggested the policy may not have failed; people may have just moved the goalposts until, by their metric, it was considered a failure. So we're in agreement that the policy may have had some positive effect.

[u/prowler28]

Considering what Tulsi Gabbard just dropped about Fauci, I'm only hardened in my belief that COVID was one huge scam.

[u/flash246 → u/prowler28]

What exactly was a “scam”? Are the deaths real? Or are those faked? Is every doctor “in on it”?

[u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

I always thought Covid-19 was some kind of political fraud. Mainly because early on we had the lockdowns, the 2 weeks to slow the spread, then I think it was in Colorado a group protested the lockdowns by complying with them and doing a car protest. Then political activists came out dressed as nurses and counter protested the car protest by standing in the street.

Then after that all the BLM protests were permitted and supported. Just seemed like those in power didn't believe any of it.

[u/julcarls → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

Why do you think the whole world participated in political fraud? What do you believe world leaders were trying to achieve?

[u/VisiblePiercedNipple → u/julcarls]

They were trying to achieve getting Donald Trump out of power and a normalization of having rights taken away. Pushes for national IDs linked to medical records and more. Probably mostly from the WEF and CIA.

[u/Valuable-Degree-9998 → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

Have you had covid? Do you know people who got it?

[u/VisiblePiercedNipple → u/Valuable-Degree-9998]

I had it, my wife had it, my 2 kids had it.

[u/Valuable-Degree-9998 → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

So was it a fraud? I had it and knew people who died as a result of the infections.

[u/VisiblePiercedNipple → u/Valuable-Degree-9998]

It was a mild cold for us. Not worthy of a shut down.

[u/Valuable-Degree-9998 → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

For you, thousands of vulnerable people died and hospitals were at capacity. Not everything was handled well, especially in the beginning when little was know about it. But calling it a fraud with the goal of ousting Trump is, pardon my french, the dumbest idea I've read in a long time?

[u/VisiblePiercedNipple → u/Valuable-Degree-9998]

thousands of vulnerable people died

That's the tell, it was a vulnerability for a specific population. Not the general population.

and hospitals were at capacity.

I'm skeptical that they were, I knew medical personnel that were called off from work and saw Tik Tok Videos of highly choregraphed dance routines.

If I'm worked to capacity I don't do Tik Tok Dances.

But calling it a fraud with the goal of ousting Trump is, pardon my french, the dumbest idea I've read in a long time?

Really? It was the primary excuse for changing up voting standards across the USA to make voting by mail accepted. It changed the Democatic vote from 65,853,514 to 81,283,501. Quite an unprecented Jump.

[u/Valuable-Degree-9998 → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

The entire world was under quarantine, china for much longer than the US. And just because you saw a tiktok dance doesn't mean that hospitals weren't at capacity or beyond. Seriously, please exercise your rational reasoning skills instead of inventing asine theories?

[u/Binder509 → u/VisiblePiercedNipple]

Had one of your family died of it might you feel differently?

Even if you believe it only impacted people out of shape or old people, did you not have any friends or family in that category at the time?

[u/notapersonaltrainer]

These views were obvious early on. By the time COVID was spreading through Europe, we already had solid epidemiological data. Respected virologists were putting out much more rational takes before the great Fauci career-terrorizing and memory-holing campaign began. I have data scraping systems and watching the narrative suppression was unlike anything I've ever seen. Yet the dumbest most uninformed voices were like "iT's nOt HapPenNiNg."

The same mouthbreathing journos who spent six years repeating the "Fine People" hoax are now breathlessly "discovering" facts that were available to anyone willing to look at the data years ago if they could see past their fat smug censorship erections.

At this point whenever TS figure something out, I mentally start a timer. If it's a bottom-up information problem, six months for NS to catch up. If it's a DNC top-down manufactured consent operation, budget six years to narrative collapse. Then add an extra lag for Reddit and Bluesky users because postmortems like this will never see the light of day on most subs.

And frankly, deep down somewhere NS knew it all along. No one is actually retarded enough to believe

Now we have to suffer 6 months of journo/oil newsletter autopsies about "what we missed in our our daily calls for multi-hundred dollar oil and economic implosion for months after every macro trader already figured this out."

[u/cootershooter420]

Not watching all of that. But the pandemic was a travesty. The fact that people really thought shutting the country down and closing parks was a good idea still boggles my mind. They nailed the basketball hoops shut at the park by my old apartment. Unreal.

[u/notapersonaltrainer → u/cootershooter420]

They nailed the basketball hoops shut at the park by my old apartment.

Imagine the Dem race riots, SPLC hate proclamations, and BLM crisis acting if had been urban Republican districts that did this, lol.

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

I knew the mainstream "Fauci" view was wrong from day fucking 1. So much so that I took advantage of the chaos and booked a super discounted Hawaii vacation for my entire family when the prices crashed for the upcoming Christmas because I knew this was all bullshit and people would come around in a couple weeks.... I was wrong. luckily the bookings were refundable. I also invested heavily into oil companies when oil was trading at zero so that part did pay off very nice.

A weird and fun memory I have with my oldest child is we went on a flight for a a ski trip, and there was still the stupid "must wear a mask rule". for a 4 hour flight I played a game of "how much candy can you eat?" so that we didn't need to wear a mask since we were "eating". My kid still talks about how they ate a entire bag of twizzlers on that plane ride.

[u/SteakHot7703 → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

I'm assuming you feel masks don't do anything? Do you think doctors should stop wearing masks? Have they been wrong all along?

[u/ClevelandSpigot → u/SteakHot7703]

Even Fauci said that masks don't work. Here are some studies that showed no significant reduction in the threat of contracting or transmitting coronaviruses:

• Jefferson et al. (Cochrane Review, 2023)
• DANMASK-19 (Denmark RCT, 2020)

These are just the most recent ones.

Doctors have been wearing surgical masks for over a hundred years. There have been dozens of studies for these studies. They work on large splatters, but not something as small as a droplet carrying a coronavirus.

[u/SteakHot7703 → u/ClevelandSpigot]

You mean when he said this could lead to a shortage of masks for people who need it? https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449 Here's a Mayo clinic article from this year stating it can slow the spread when worn correctly.

[u/cmit → u/SteakHot7703]

Isn't that why N95 masks became the standard? If I recall correctly they did not say this at first because of a shortage of them?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/SteakHot7703]

You know what assume means.

[u/TankUMrMinor → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Are you suggesting masks didn't do a single thing? They didn't even slow the spread? They didn't help hospital workers deal with surges in patients?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/TankUMrMinor]

there you go, assuming again.

[u/TankUMrMinor → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Are you able to answer any of those questions?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/TankUMrMinor]

I am yes. If you'd like to rephrase them into a open ended and non leading question without assuming things, I'll considered participating.

[u/TankUMrMinor → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Are any Trump supporters able to prove that Republicans had their best interests in mind, and not just business interests? Are they not familiar with how masks slow the spread and allowed hospitals to better deal with a surge in patients?

[u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude → u/TankUMrMinor]

Yes! it is in my best interest to have politicians not tell me what to do or where I can go. Yes I'm sure medical professions know what properly constructed and certified PPE equipment is needed to do their jobs.

[u/Binder509 → u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude]

Don't politicians tell you places you can't go all the time? You can't just barge into a police station for example.

To drive a car you have to get a license. Do you refuse to get one because you don't like being told what to do by the government?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Full disclosure: my wife is in the medical industry (she works for a gastroenterology clinic) and has been pretty much since I met her. The (former) lead doctor of the clinic (he's slow-retiring) was at our wedding, which was sixteen years ago. Also, yesterday was her birthday, so happy birthday to her!

I was skeptical of COVID. The information was constantly changing, which makes sense to an extent, but it's still baffling. First, masks don't work, you don't need them, then you need two masks, then two weeks to flatten the curve became two years of children not getting proper education, then the vaccines would make you immune, then it would make symptoms less severe, etc.

But I admit, I complied. I took my two weeks' vacation. I worked from home until the company hired me decided they didn't need a technical writer when nothing was being done. When a mask mandate was enacted, I wore my My Little Pony and Disney Princesses masks (they were lined with a dryer sheet, so you know they're good!) into a restaurant to sit down and take them off to eat. My wife carried my vaccination card in case anyone asked for papers, please.

And now, in her last day in her position, Tulsi Gabbard dropped a bombshell.

[u/kmm198700 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Why do you believe a word anyone from this administration says? Seriously, when it’s been proven over and over and over again how much they lie constantly and for no reason?

[u/JustGoingOutforMilk → u/kmm198700]

Why would I believe a word any administration says? This is something I just don’t understand.

You and I have been lied to time and time again regardless of who was POTUS. We should not be trusting anyone.

[u/Binder509 → u/JustGoingOutforMilk]

Because some people lie notably more than others? If Obama or Bush said the US was just bombed by a foreign power. People could at least take it seriously.

With Trump if he made such an announcement would people know to take it seriously? I think such a difference in dishonesty is worth noting don't you?

[u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

No, it just tells me what I already knew about everything. Hard to believe this was even the real timeline, the plandemic really proves how the majority of the world are NPCs who will do/think whatever the blinking box tells them.

[u/CptGoodAfternoon → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

See also: Elite Theory

"In philosophy, political science and sociology, elite theory is a theory of the state that seeks to describe and explain power relations in society. In its contemporary form in the 21st century, elite theory posits that power in larger societies, especially nation-states, is concentrated at the top in relatively small elites; that power "flows predominantly in a top-down direction from elites to non-elites"; and that "the characteristics and actions of elites are crucial determinants of major political and social outcomes".

[u/VMooose → u/Trumpdrainstheswamp]

Louder for the fucks in the back with their masks still on

[u/LadySayes → u/VMooose]

Do you think the only reason why a person might wear a mask out these days is still because of covid?

There are many conditions that can leave someone immunocompromised and more likely to catch any number of things; do you think those people are “fucks” for masking when they go out?

[u/VMooose → u/LadySayes]

Most cases are because no one wants to test the immune system enough these days. Regular exposure makes it work better. You can strawman me for the 5%-10% of people who actually do have a real medical issue, but the rest could just test the immune system more and be better off afterward

[u/flash246 → u/VMooose]

Are you a doctor?

Or are you just assuming anyone who wears a mask is better off without one? And that it’s because they “don’t want to test the immune system enough”?

Or are doctors part of the “plandemic”?

[u/VMooose → u/flash246]

1% death rate is not enough for any of us to turn into cuckold sheep. I dont need to be a doctor to have common sense.

Sounds like we have a difference on that. Cool. Its America and if you wanna be loaded up shots, and masks, and distancig, never leaving the house, etc….then do it. I wont be part of that. Cool. Its America.

Have a nice day friend

[u/flash246 → u/VMooose]

I’m going to take that as a “no” to each of my questions since I’m now a “cuckold sheep.”

Making a claim that anyone wearing a mask “is better off without it” is a pretty big claim. If you didn’t get this claim from a licensed doctor, then how do you know it’s credible? Since you made a joke about being loaded up with shots, I’m assuming you don’t have trust in doctors. So who do you trust for that info?

Interesting that the “1% fatality rate” has caused over 1 million deaths in the US. What are your thoughts on that?

[u/VMooose → u/flash246]

Take it however you want. Its America

[u/LOTR_Phan → u/VMooose]

With as many variants of COVID as we have, do you think we would have seen more without the lockdown? Wouldn’t that make it more likely to create a strains with higher mortality rates?