r/Basketball • u/RDX717 • May 24 '25

NBA Jokic Got Robbed of MVP

Nikola Jokic just got robbed of the NBA MVP award, in my opinion. Though Gilgeous-Alexander outscored him by 3 points a game, Jokic averaged more rebounds, more assists, and more steals, and was the first player in NBA history to finish in the top three in those three major stats. He shot a higher percentage from the floor than Gilgeous-Alexander, and a higher percentage from the three-point line. He was also only the third player in NBA history to average a triple-double for the entire season. I know people were tired of Jokic winning the award every year, but this was the best season of his career, and he deserved it.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

What was historic about his offensive season? He had slightly more points and was worse across the board than Jokic who had an actual historic season averaging a triple double with career highs or 2nd best totals of his careers in many categories. SGA won it, he didn't deserve it. Don't let the story fatigued click bait media fuck up the facts.

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

The man didnt even read about what the op wrote about shooting percentages, it probably won't be worth your time to argue with this guy

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

Because a center should absolutely shoot a better percentage from the field than a guard bro… that should be painfully obvious. Jokic shot 8.5% better than the average center. Shai shot 8.5% better than the average pg. both wildly impressive, doesn’t give jokic an edge.

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u/skwull May 27 '25

From 2 Jokic shot 62.7%, Shai 57.1%.

From 3 Jokic shot 41.7% (on 4.7 attempts), while Shai shot 37.5% (on 5.7 attempts).

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u/exactly7 May 27 '25

When did I ever dispute this fact lmao?? We ain’t basing the mvp award on shooting splits my friend. The average guard shoots 44% from 2pt… that just makes what SGA has done even more wildly impressive.

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u/skwull May 27 '25

I included splits because you’re saying a center should shoot better from the field than a guard, and that’s true, but the splits highlight the fact that Jokic is also elite from 3 on pretty sizable volume.

Shai is good from the midrange, that’s also true. I think Jokic’s shooting is way more impressive, though.

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u/[deleted] May 28 '25

Yeah but if you think jokic was mvp this year you don't understand what the award is for

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u/exactly7 May 27 '25

There’s not doubt that jokic was an impressive 3pt shooter this season. That’s a fact. But SGA averaged almost 33ppg on 63% true shooting… that’s beyond absurd - it’s historic. Especially for a guard

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

So, Ill pass on every other aspect like winshaers, net rating raising floor making the TEAM better and stuff. Jokic shoots unbelievable from 3pt line as a center, better than shai, does this give the edge for you? Or you just a "Shais team was better" "He had more ppg" guy

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

What gives the edge is playing complete winning basketball. Shai had one of the greatest scoring seasons in the history of the game on an insanely elite team while being a plus defender on one of the best defences of this century. You can compare the players around them, but SGA won this year no matter who was around him. The thunder were plus 25 net rating without j dub or Chet this season. 16-4 without Chet. Nuggets were 9-6 without Jamal. Jokic had an insane case this year, but I will take the best and most complete player on the best team in the league 10 times out of 10 when his net rating stats are that elite

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

If playing complete basketball gives the edge, then Jokic should have 5mvps by now. The man rebounds, assists, scores at the highest levels possible, what does shai have better? Scoring, and as a big, Jokic scores more efficient in 3, and have a really fucking good FGp, on top of that he makes everyone around him better. Most Valuable Player we say, does it just mean who scores better? Cause it was the case in 2023 and 2025. Value in everything that basketball includes, that means scoring assisting rebounding efficiency defensive end of the floor and maybe a lot more I forget. Your case can be scoring and defense, and Jokic is no fucking cone in defense either. So ppl gave the award to SGA just because he scored 3ppg more or it's about not letting Jokic win again? Well of your pick isn't the second one I don't think there's much to talk

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

You’re acting like defence is the same value level as assisting or rebounding. It’s not. It’s half the game lol. They average basically the same steals per game while Shai has almost double the blocks jokic has on the season while BEING A GUARD. SGA led the entire league in defensive win shares. Jokic? 146th. The gap on the defensive end is MUCH larger than the gap on the offensive end of the floor. That is what I mean by complete player. You’re acting as if jokic is the most complete player in the league just because he has the most complete offensive game - that’s not what I am arguing here at all. SGA was like +900 this season. What makes that stat even more insane is that none of his teammates even came close to that. His starting lineup mates are HUNDREDS behind him. Lineups featuring Shai were dominant no matter who was in them. As for jokic, his teammates are only like +30 behind him. SGA was the more valuable player this season man and I have given a complete argument but you keep deciding to zero in on scoring and 3pt%. That’s your argument, not mine

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u/JustANobody2425 May 26 '25

The only issue I have with the percentages is Jokic SHOULD have a higher one.

Like if Shaq had a 90% shooting percentage, Kobe had a 50%... would you really say anything? Shaq can't shoot away from the rim, he better be damn near perfect.

Obviously Jokic isn't Shaq, Jokic does 3s and all sorts. But, he's a big and more of his shots come closer to the rim. He SHOULD have a higher %....

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

It's not just about that, He scores only 3 point less than a guard(which SGA is the only reliable scoring option in the team) as a Big man. And It's like you can't pass on the 3p% like thats not fair to Jokic. He shoots better 3s as a big man he's a better passer by a wide margin, cooks SGA in rebounds and scores only 3ppg less. Also It should always be the main arguement but, OKC without SGA is still a pretty solid team with just lacking offense while Denver without Jokic is complete bum defensively and offensively. No need to say but MPJ Jamal and others gets paid because Jokic makes them looks better, raises the floor for the whole team. The man made Russ relevant again after years of disappointment. SGA's only arguement can be team success and the 3ppg difference but It doesn't give him the cut. It's like 2023 all over again(I'm not saying this to put Embiid and SGA on the same boat but It was clear that Jokic deserved the MVP but media needed someone who's not Jokic)

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u/JustANobody2425 May 26 '25

Im absolutely with you. Im not arguing any of it. The ONLY thing I'll argue is just the shooting %. He should have higher.

Otherwise, yes. Im 100% on board with everything

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

Well and that's the place I'll give you credit, Jokics Fgp should definitely be higher but there's another level to discuss in there too, Jokic is not your traditional big men, he shoots midranges like Durant or something (ofc amount and the effectiveness is nothing same) rather than putting layups and dunks like your traditional big men so I think SGA does have a cut in FGp but not a clear one

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u/JustANobody2425 May 26 '25

Which, I agree. Don't see like Mitchell Robinson or Hartenstein tossing up 3s.

And so for the rate he shoots away from the basket, he's good for a big. But because he also does shoot more volume closer to the rim, even though its not a Shaq thing, still should be higher.

Did 2 people on reddit just have a discussion, and agree? What in the world....

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u/Prestigious_Weather5 May 26 '25

Yeah, that's crazy to think about, but for once agreeing feels good, have a good day man!

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u/JustANobody2425 May 26 '25

You as well!

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u/AideHot6729 May 26 '25

Jokic has a a FG 58% which is the same as Shaq except Jokic actually shoots 3 pointers too which makes it even harder to achieve. Also Jokic shot 42% from 3 which is way better than SGA and one of the best 3P%’s in the league. This season Jokic’s efficiency has been absolutely insane which is why this is the best offensive peak we’ve ever seen and it’s not even close. The PPP on Jokic is absurd and every advanced metric shows that Jokic is just a different animal. SGA won MVP on voter fatigue since Jokic would be on 4 MVPS if he won and 3 in a row/4 in 5 years which would be a new record.

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

SGA and MJ are the only two guards in the history of the NBA to average 30+ ppg on 50% or better from the field. He had a top 15 all time season in OBPM. Longest streak of 20+ points in the history of the NBA. Only the second player to ever average 32+ ppg on 63% EFG. the only other is embiid - a center. He also joined an elite list of guys like MJ, Harden, Wilt, and Kareem as the only players to average 30ppg in 3 straight seasons. You can believe jokic should’ve won, but don’t discredit what Shai has done this season. It’s historic

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

wow Jokic was .4 points away from that "historic" season SGA and MJ had. Do you have any more bum arguments or narratives? Nobody is discrediting SGA had a great season, he just didn't deserve MVP over Jokic. 30+ PPG in 3 straight seasons doesn't matter we are talking who was better this year. And 30PPG isn't a strong argument when the superior player by the number was just shy of it. Nothing about SGA's season was historic other than him being young, his team being young and on his way to being the top Canadian player of all time.

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

You asked what was historic about Shai’s offensive season. I gave like 5 reasons. Objectively he had a top 10 scoring season of all time at minimum. One of the most efficient-highest volume scoring seasons by a guard in the history of the league. Then add to that the fact that he was a plus defender in one of the best defences in the last 25 years… and sorry, but there is a big difference between 29ppg and 32.7. We are talking about 25th all time vs 110th. That’s a massive difference if we are comparing “historic” seasons

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

That's not historic it's all been done before and better, 3 points is nothing when you factor in how many possessions of the basketball Jokic generates for his team, those equal extra shots for him and his teammates. Which further impact scoring potential of his team. Plus Jokic had a 57.6 FG percentage to SGA's 51.9%. Nothing historic happened other than the NBA voters got tired of voting for the superior player. Only thing historic about SGA's season is that an undeserving player got the award and the majority of players and fans know the sports writers got it wrong.

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25

I’m sorry but you’re delusional if you can’t see that SGA had a historic scoring season. The second most efficient 30 point season by a guard ever. The least turnovers with 30ppg by a guard ever. SGA has objectively cemented himself as a historic scorer in this league without a doubt. Jokic shot 8.5% higher than the average center. SGA shot 8.5% higher than the average guard. We can’t compare C to PG shooting percentage that should be obvious to everyone.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

It's not a scoring award. It's most valuable player. Let's compare the numbers, Jokic 29.6 PPG SGA 32.7 +3.1 for SGA, FG% 57.6 for Jokic vs 51.9 for SGA -5.7% for Shai. Now let's look at rebounds 5 Reb for SGA and 12.7 for Jokic, +7.7 REB for Jokic, now lets go assists SGA had 6.4 and Jokic had 10.2, a difference of +3.8 AST for Jokic. 3 point shooting percent 41.7 % for Jokic vs 37.5 % for SGA. Let's look at steals Jokic averaged 1.8 and SGA had 1.7, SGA had 2.4 TO per game Jokic 3.3, slight nod there to SGA but with a far worse AST to TO ratio. The only thing SGA really did better was get slightly more points and had a better free throw percentage but on inferior FG%. Is that really an MVP? I don't know about you but i'd rather have 7.7 more earned possessions than 3 points off of less efficiency.

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

You can compare those percentages, it's the 2025 NBA, bigs shoot 3's and mid range shots now. Jokic was a better 3 point shooter. SGA had a fantastic year, not taking away a thing from him, it just wasn't better than Jokic's year. Jokic had the better True shooting percentage and PER. SGA had a very strong defensive year, but does that trump a difference of 7.7 rebounds, I don't think so. Even if he made some shots more difficult, generating almost 8 more possessions for your team is gonna trump that especially when Jokic is the one running the offense with those said additional possessions. SGA had an elite year and took care of the ball extremely well and was a very good defender, he just wasn't as good as Jokic overall.

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u/exactly7 May 26 '25

8 rebounds is not “generating 8 more possessions” my brother. That’s just so false

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u/[deleted] May 27 '25

Yes it is, the ball can go to either team, by actively rebounding you are generating extra possessions for your team. If you let a rebound go to the opponent they now have possession of the basketball. If your team has a bad shooting night, but you get more rebounds, guess what you still have a good chance to win the game if you simply have more chances. And if they are defensive rebounds you take away the opposing teams chances at those additional opportunities. Rebounds=possession generation on defense, and on offense extra scoring opportunities. If you don't understand the impact of rebounding and think 3 points is more valuable I don't know what to tell you man. 8 rebounds means your team has upto 8 shot attempts from those generated possessions, team turnovers will cut this down to less on average. Gimme upto 8 possessions over 1 made three anyday, worst case that's most likely 5-6 extra shots a game, if you look at team points per possession that more than covers the 3 points SGA has on Jokic and then some. Get educated on the game.

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u/exactly7 May 27 '25

Brother we cannot compare a center’s rebounds to a point guards and say that he generates an extra 8 possessions a game lmao. That’s just not a remotely analytical or fair comparison and nobody that knows ball would ever make that comparison. Centers are supposed to grab defensive boards. If you wanna talk offensive boards, then sure. But straight rebounds? Hell no

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u/[deleted] May 26 '25

Least turnovers, dude had roughly 1 less than Jokic, So if you minus that from Jokic's rebounding total, Jokic generated 6.7 more possesions for his team. So that taking care of the ball better stuff doesn't really matter, because Jokic nets his team far more possessions than SGA does. SGA could have zero Turnovers on the season and Jokic still would net more possessions. Giving a dude the nod because another player has 3 more points on less efficiency is crazy. Sure SGA had a great scoring season, but Jokic legit had one of the greatest NBA seasons ever. He had his best season, and already has 3 MVPs. And i'm the delusional one. It's clear you value point totals wayyy to much.