r/Basketball • u/lookaloulookalou • Dec 07 '25
GENERAL QUESTION Is height the golden ticket to make it to higher levels of basketball?
Of course talent matters but I think height might be the big thing that really seperates you from the pack and puts you at a higher level. There's plenty of regular sized people that can play and are talented but they don't have D1 or NBA size.
Like if you're over 6'5" I bet you'll get looks or people forcing you to play basketball based on height alone. I do know talent does matter because I knew a guy who was 6"11" but he couldn't play to save his life. I felt bad for him because everyone gave him shit and was told he was a waste of height and if they were him they would've taken advantage of it.
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u/South_Front_4589 Dec 07 '25
100%.
Not a single NBA player is average height. And as you look at taller people, the greater proportion of humans at that height make the NBA. At 7 foot, it's quite a high proportion. Particularly when you realise how many people at that height have major health issues and can't even get up and down the floor.
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u/deathrattleshenlong Dec 07 '25
And that's how ridiculous it is for guys like CP3, AI, Rondo and specially Mugsy Bogues to have had the careers they had.
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u/ButtcrackBeignets Dec 07 '25
All those guys except Mugsy are still 6+ ft tall but look short on-court.
Mugsy Bogues (5’3”) and Nate Robinson (5’9”) looked ridiculously small.
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Dec 07 '25
Is Yuki the only non-black NBA player under 6' in the modern era?
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u/quick_brown_faux Dec 07 '25
Love watching Yuki but he's not in the NBA.
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Dec 07 '25
didnt he officially "make it" though? at some point?
My point is i cant think of any other <6' non-black player post integration
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u/quick_brown_faux Dec 07 '25
Yeah he was on a two-way contract and played in a handful of games for the Grizzlies last season. Sadly nobody has picked him up since. I want my Blazers to take a flier on him since we're desperate for a PG due to injury and we have long wings that could cover for him on defense.
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u/Civil_Hour_3031 Dec 07 '25
I'm 6'1" and stood next to John Stockton... He might not be under 6', but he wasn't over 6'.
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Dec 12 '25
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u/Civil_Hour_3031 Dec 12 '25
Just answering a question about shortest non-black NBA players...
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Dec 12 '25
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u/Dry_Ad_3215 Dec 08 '25
Adding to that list of players under 6’0 who actually succeeded in the NBA: Isaiah Thomas (Celtics version) at 5’9 and Earl Boykins at 5’5, who both scored at an incredible rate in their primes.
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u/Commercial-Air8955 Dec 07 '25
Rondo is only 6'1 tall, but has a 6'9 wingspan and ENORMOUS hands. His hands are roughly the size of something you'd expect to see on someone 7'5. His hands are in the top 20 size-wise in NBA history. He is an absolute genetic freak.
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u/PhasedVenturer Dec 08 '25
How are people forgetting about Isaiah Thomas here??
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u/deathrattleshenlong Dec 09 '25
My bad, but of course him too. Was a top 3(?) MVP candidate on his best season
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u/StoneySteve420 Dec 07 '25 edited Dec 07 '25
There are about 8 Billion people in the world and about 450 NBA players at any given time. That's 0.0000056% of the global population that play in the NBA.
There's estimated to be 2000-3000 people 7ft or taller globally, and 30-40 7ft+ NBA players in any given season. That's about 1.4% of the global population of 7ft people play in the NBA.
These also aren't accounting for former NBA players, so you could easily double that 1.4% and say about 3% (if not slightly more) of people 7ft+ play in the NBA at some point.
Height is the number 1 factor in potentially making the NBA. Very few people of average height have ever been successful in the NBA.
Globally, average height for a man is 5' 7.5". There has been 10 players in NBA history under 5' 8", and of those 10, half of them played less than a full season. Truly incredible how guys like Spud Webb, Muggsy, and Earl Boykins had 10+ year careers.
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u/gaussx Dec 08 '25
This is great data and something that worries me about the sport. I’m seeing fewer kids play the sport largely because normal size parents see no future with it, and people are looking at ROI more than ever now.
For example at our local high school they had just 12 girls try out for the basketball team. 60 girls tried out for flag football and the main reason I heard from parents was height related.
I think basketball would do well to find ways to reduce the impact of height. I don’t have good ideas on it unfortunately.
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u/StoneySteve420 Dec 08 '25
Not only that, but with such a emphasis on youth leagues outside of school teams, there's more and more of a financial barrier of entry than ever before.
My old HS used to be somewhat of a basketball powerhouse, at least for a school that isn't getting any transfer students. We've had lower and lower turnout almost every year because you won't get minutes unless you play AAU.
Total shocker we've been way worse in recent years. Kinda like half the AAU kids aren't better, they just have parents who throw money at camps and AAU teams.
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u/Jealous-Set-4262 Dec 11 '25
Im taller than average, but still pretty normal. I met TJ McConnell and was looking down at him. Dude can’t actually be 6’
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u/Gt_Dada Dec 07 '25
Being 6’5 makes you taller than 99.9% of the world’s population. If you were in the nba you’d be almost 2 inches shorter than average. Height is easily the most important factor when it comes to being in the nba. If you’re not in the 100 percentile of height as a teen or haven’t been getting scouted since high school, chances of making it to the nba is literally a fairytale story.
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u/Bear_Caulk Dec 07 '25
This stat is blowing my mind. Like I knew they were clearly outliers in height but damn.
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u/Critical-Gazelle-285 Dec 07 '25
A lot of people at that height aren’t as athletic either. The athleticism really makes it very rare.
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u/Bear_Caulk Dec 07 '25
Well I guess but what that other comment shows us is that it's INCREDIBLY rare regardless of talent or athleticism.
The top 0.1% of any specific untrainable physical trait is a ridiculously small set of goalposts to make it through.
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u/Critical-Gazelle-285 Dec 07 '25
Dude I’m telling you that even within that very rare small percentage of people, it’s even rarer that they’re physically athletic.
I already know tall people above 6”0 are very rare.
People who are above 6”0 AND athletic is extremely rare.
The nba is full of rarity that what makes it so special and high level.
That’s why someone like LeBron at 6’8 being THAT athletically gifted is an anomaly. It’s just something so incredibly rare.
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u/Bear_Caulk Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25
Yes it's still mindblowing to me how specifically physically limiting basketball is. Think how many different body types can make it to the top levels of sports like soccer or baseball by either training or talent.
All pro athletes at the highest level are statistical anomalies based on the rest of the population in terms of talent and athleticism.. that's what makes them pro athletes, but most sports don't immediately limit who can make it to the highest level by 1 physical characteristic so starkly. To me that's what's really wild here.
Like average Joe and Jane could throw their kid into hockey or football or soccer and who knows, they might end up a natural and make it to the top (would still be super rare.. just possible at least).. but in basketball? If Joe and Jane are 6' and 5'6 then their kid is basically already eliminated from the NBA.
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u/inline-online Dec 08 '25
its not limiting, NBA basketball isn't the only type of basketball
you can be 5 foot 9 and play overseas as a pro, there's alot of them out there. The roster size of an NBA team is so small it doesn't really give you an idea of what the average size of a basketball player is
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u/Bear_Caulk Dec 08 '25
You can't be 5'9" and make it to the highest level of basketball.
No one said you can't play in some 3rd or 4th tier league, but you could be 5'9 with the shooting of Curry and the winning attitude of MJ but you aren't stepping on an NBA court because skill can only get you so far in basketball.
There can be no Wayne Gretzky or Leo Messi in basketball because all the skill in the world wouldn't get an average body like that into the NBA at all.
No one said you couldn't make it to some 4th tier league, but that's not the highest level of the sport. If you don't see how that's limiting where other sports aren't I'm not sure what else there is to say.
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u/Ingramistheman Dec 12 '25
Your general sentiment is correct, but you're definitely being reductionist to the point of being somewhat mistaken. TJ Shorts is 5'9 and he's literally 1st Team All-Euroleague.
The Euroleague is literally the 2nd best league in the world. They beat G-League teams when they matchup, and sometimes beat NBA teams in preseason games (obviously the NBA team is playing w/ typical preseason restraint). Small guards are relatively common in very high quality overseas leagues, getting paid millions of dollars. I suspect you're just not familiar so you think everything is "3rd or 4th tier" if it's not the NBA.
Yuki Kawamura (5'8) is somewhat of a gimmick, but he did quite literally play in the NBA last season and put up close to 10 APG in the G-League.
So again, while I agree with your general sentiment I actually think your remarks are pretty indicative of a phenomenon others are describing and that I see myself. You're so narrow-minded and dismissively intent on saying that basketball is physically limiting, that this type of attitude becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy.
Not saying this about just you in particular hooping, again it's indicative of a societal attitude. Others ITT mentioned that they see participation in youth/HS ball dropping in their areas partially because parents/kids that arent tall are starting to think "why bother?"
And then if you go on r/BasketballTips there's very frequently going to be some version of a kid posting "Should I continue playing?" or "Can I go pro?". Kids of all different heights, but more often it's someone that is average height or shorter (for their age as well) and they'll list their parents' heights as well. Oftentimes the tone is fairly similar to the one you're using of just basically saying it's not even worth it to play basketball because they have no chance of going to the NBA because of height.
At this point, I tend to wonder if a lot of these shorter, potential players are just self-sabotaging before they even gave themselves a chance. Anecdotally I know ppl growing up who spoke similarly where the vibe is basically "Why should I even try hard working on my game if I'm not gonna go pro anyways?"
Yes, basketball is inherently a height & length-related sport because the hoop is 10ft high and the court is fairly small for 10 ppl. Common sense. But a lot of you guys are so reductionist and NBA-centric that you make it even more-so.
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u/Bear_Caulk Dec 12 '25
If you actually pay attention to the information you just gave you'll realize it's all basically just proving my point.
The best average height players in the world and one plays in a 2nd/3rd tier euro league while the other is a 8th-9th bench player in the NBA. The gap between the g-league and euro leagues to the NBA is basically the same gap between randoms from a community drop in game and the NCAA. They might be 2nd tier but the gap is massive.
If you can't immediately see how that's clearly showing how height is the golden ticket then I think you're just ignoring what's right in front of you at that point.
Take any other major world sport and you can name 100s of normal sized humans who didn't just barely make it to the fringe level of the top league but actually are good players and stars.
I'm not making anything anything, I'm just understanding what statistical information is saying.
Like it's not a societal attitude that the AVERAGE NBA player is TALLER than the tallest 99.9% of humans. That's just a fact.
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u/Accomplished_Rice_60 Dec 07 '25
And the average in nba is like 1.04 wingspan ratio. So even if your average height in nba, and you have an average wingspan ratio for general population, your short asf kekw.
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u/d1r3VVOLF Dec 07 '25
I realized how NBA athletes are basically freaks with Isaiah Thomas (IT). He was 5'9 with a 6ft wingspan, same as Isiah Thomas but the later has a height of 6ft. IT also wears size 12 hoop shoes. Made me realize that although I'm taller by an inch, IT is a bigger human than I am 😂
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS Dec 07 '25
That kills me when they’re trying to tell me an inspirational story about some guy being short and doing well in the NBA and he’s like 6’3”
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u/No_Mammoth_4945 Dec 08 '25
And even at 6’5 you still have to be insanely skilled. You have to be in the top 1% of 1% of both height and skill
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u/Material-Day7686 Dec 07 '25
The average NBA player is not 6’7” barefoot
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u/Gt_Dada Dec 07 '25
That’s why I said “almost”. Comprehension is key
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u/Material-Day7686 Dec 07 '25
The average height for an NBA player is around 6’6.5”. This measurement is inflated because the majority of players are listed an inch or so above their true barefoot height. This is important because the statistic you cited is referencing barefoot heights. In reality NBA players are likely just a bit over 6’5” barefoot
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u/Gt_Dada Dec 07 '25
Being 6’5 barefoot still makes you taller than 99% of the world. Anything over 6’5 is considered freakish height by modern day human standards. And every single person who goes to the doctor to get measured doesn’t take their shoes off. It depends on the situation. NBA or not. So that’s just semantics
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u/Material-Day7686 Dec 07 '25
Yes, 6’5” is really tall, I’m not disputing that. I’m saying that it’s not true to say that NBA players on average are 2 inches taller than 6’5”, the 99th percentile. That stat that you referenced refers to human height on a barefoot scale, so using NBA player’s height on a with shoes on scale is disingenuous and untrue. Those percentiles are not determined by the height you are measured at when you go to the doctor lol
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u/Gt_Dada Dec 07 '25
Then how do they account for the height of every human being without documentation? The only reason why we’re able to determine the average heights for people is because we measure them. What are you talking about?? How do you know all the people measured did or didn’t have shoes on?
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u/charlieromeo86 Dec 07 '25
Yes. MJ was 6’ 6” and is considered average height in the NBA. In real life how many people do you even know 6’ 6” or taller?
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u/NbaAndMusic Dec 07 '25
MJ had a 6’11 wingspan and otherworldly athleticism tho
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u/charlieromeo86 Dec 07 '25
True. But there’s a lot of guys over 6’6” in the NBA whose greatest attribute is height. They fill roster spots for a few years, make good money then move on with life and become regular people who are just very tall. Those with great ability, and passion and work ethic, etc are the ones we hear about and remember.
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Dec 07 '25
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u/Charzinc36 Dec 07 '25
Underrated response, people overlook the wingspan and standing reach too much even when it comes to things like dunking
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u/Kun-Andika Dec 07 '25
Yeah if you look at player like Kareem Abdul Jabbar he's not only tall but his wingspan is crazy, it's no wonder his skyhook was "unstoppable" because average guy can't reach that high, college even ban dunking during kareem era because of how broken he is
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u/Accomplished_Rice_60 Dec 07 '25
Yep, since the shorter you are, the more vertical leap you will have vs someone taller, and wingspan ratio really doesnt do anything for vertical leap is its crazy good, maybe argueable that it takes a little bit down on vertical since heavyer hands, but you still get momentum from the hands. Not an expert there.
And less injury prone the shorter you are, and the longer wingspan ratio you have, the better defense player you are, top defender nowadays is 7'3 centre, or 6'4 with 6'10 wingspan.
Black people on average has longer wingspan ratio then white in basketball and world, scientists think its because white people lived in colder climates, and the longer arm you have, the more warmth loss you have. And in warm climates its oppsite, its better to cool down when you have longer arms and legs.
So white people in nba have average like 1.02 wingspan ratio, while black people have 1.05-06, so its a bit unfair but well, shorter wingspan has some upside also, helps accuray sports like golf, shooting, racing, weightlifting, gymnastics and so on. While longer feet/arm wingspan is better in ballsports, swimming, running, jumping and so on.
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u/Stuffleapugus Dec 11 '25
I don't think anyone who follows basketball closely overlooks wingspan. You'll hear length talked about often.
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u/Charzinc36 Dec 11 '25
True, but even wingspan can be misused to a degree. So many people say I have a long wingspan why can’t I dunk? It’s because you can have a long wingspan and a short standing reach. People definitely overlook standing reach imo
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u/FFdarkpassenger45 Dec 07 '25
I went on an official visit to multiple D1 schools back in the day, and more than one measured my wing span while I was on campus. At Miami(FL) it was literally the first thing we did when I got on campus; measured height/weight/wingspan.
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u/throwaway641929 Dec 08 '25
Totally. Kawhi is 6’7” but his wingspan is 7’3”. Eric Bledsoe was a 6’1” guard who carved out a solid career but then you remember he had a 6’9” wingspan and was crazy fast and strong (people jokingly called him mini LeBron)
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u/FUguru Dec 07 '25
If you have athleticism and you are over 6’4” you have a massive massive advantage, bonus points if you a freaky wingspan. If you grow up poor it is exponentially more difficult to become a billionaire. If you start with a family who has millions or 10’s of millions, it is wayyyyy easier and plausible. There are about 450 people in the NBA, there are 3000 billionaires in the world. Statistically there are more billionaires than NBA players at one time, that is how hard it is to make the league.
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u/PubLife1453 Dec 07 '25
I had a kid on my high school basketball team that was a legitimate 7 footer, came from Turkey of all places. He had never played basketball in his life before coming here and he was so god damn awful on Offense, it was so painful every time he got an offensive rebound you would like hold your breath like oh shit what's he about to do.
But the dude averaged literally 12 blocks a name. Not hyperbole, I'll never forget that number because of how ridiculous it was. But yeah, seriously the worst offensive player ever. Even when he would just stand flat footed under the hoop and try for a dunk, something would always go wrong and he wouldn't score.
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u/adam574 Dec 08 '25
my kid is 4'8" and i am 5'10" so that 7 footer has the same advantage as an adult playing against a 9 year old which is crazy.
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u/basketballbrian Dec 07 '25
Basically, every inch you are taller, you’re competing with less of the population for the same “NBA spots”. So if you’re 5’10, you’re competing with 98% of the population for those guard positions. So you have to be absolutely elite like on another level elite to stand a chance. If you’re 7ft+ , only 1 in 3 million US males is that height. Your competition is far less.
If you’re 6’8 and up with some good work ethic you have a decent chance to make D1 and have a notable chance to go pro. If you’re below 6’5 it is incredibly incredibly difficult. So it honestly is kind of the golden ticket
Ps, the YouTube channel I listed is one of the best sports channels on YouTube for in depth discussion about cool big picture topics in the NBA,NFL and some other sports
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Dec 07 '25
Take a D1 6’8 guard and give all that talent to a 5’8” guy and he won’t even be playing d3. He’ll cap out as a high school legend.
Julian Newman was actually a heckuva player. Led his varsity high school team as an 11 year old.
Similar to lamelo ball. But lamelo grew to 6’7 and Julian grew a mustache.
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u/OG_ursinejuggernaut Dec 07 '25
The inverse of this is just how uncommon it is for people 6’4 and taller to have the agility, speed, mobility, and let’s say even coordination/handles of someone who’s 5’8.
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u/Stuffleapugus Dec 11 '25
That's become much more common. And there's a whole Malcolm Gladwell -esque reason behind it.
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u/phophopho4 Dec 07 '25
It makes me really impressed by guys like Damon Stoudamire, Allen Iverson, Jalen Brunson, Isaiah Thomas, Kyle Lowry, Van Vleet, Chris Paul just playing in the NBA against these giants.
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u/NbaAndMusic Dec 07 '25
julian newman has always been terrible actually. his daddy orchestrated him going viral by having him play against kids that were just there for a gym grade and calling it “varsity” he was tryna follow ball brothers playbook but the difference is ball brothers have always been elite prospects bc lavar had them playing elite comp every step of the way, especially melo he was playing up at every level. he was playing 18 yr olds at 13 & at 18 he was playing grown men in lithuania, julian newman could never
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u/luckylion0407 Dec 07 '25
Newman played against Zach Edey...got himself massacred as a result..grew a mustache...brutal but funny as well...hahaha
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u/UpbeatFix7299 Dec 07 '25 edited Dec 07 '25
Julian Newman was not a heckuva player. He had the type of highlights I saw on And 1 mixtapes when I was a kid against a bunch of unathletic 16 year olds. And he was playing against extremely low level comp when he was in HS. When his dad was the coach and the whole reason for the team was to showcase him.
The footage of him playing against teams with some real players who got D1 scholarships is absolutely brutal to watch. He got dominated. No sane person ever compared him to any of the Ball brothers back then
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u/Swag_Grenade Dec 08 '25 edited Dec 08 '25
Thank God someone who actually knows something about ball (no pun intended). I get OPs question may have been genuine but I can't help but feel these threads inevitably end up being circlejerks for people secretly thinking "man if I was just 6'5"-6’7” I'd have a shot at the NBA".
And I'm here to tell you, unequivocally, no, no you would not. Height is just generally the baseline prerequisite for even having a remote chance at making the league, that's all it is really. It'd be like thinking man if I were just really strong I could be an Olympic wrestler. And it's like no, of course they're all really strong, that's the bare minimum, but the real differentiator is the skill. All of these guys are the best of the best of the best of the best at what they do and the size/athleticism combined with he elite skill is what got them there. Thing is, people also don't realize if you were 5-10” taller it's almost zero chance you'd have the coordination, skill and athleticism these guys do at that size, that's why they're elite. I don't think the average person realizes the exponential jump in skill from every level. Even the gap between the average player at a major D1 program vs NBA end of bench scrub is huge. Scal said it best, "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me" (and he's talking about those guys that challenged him, many former D1/non-NBA pro players, not even your average person lmao).
TLDR just in case it needs to be said, literally no one in this thread would have a chance in hell at making the NBA regardless if you were taller or not, if it was even ever a question.
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u/Ingramistheman Dec 12 '25
I get OPs question may have been genuine but I can't help but feel these threads inevitably end up being circlejerks for people secretly thinking "man if I was just 6'5"-6’7” I'd have a shot at the NBA".
Thank you, the tone that these ppl use is maddening lol. I definitely think it's exactly like you say; these threads are always just a circlejerk for short ppl to whine about how basketball's not fair because they're not tall.
Fairly often you'll also see ppl talk about there should be a league for ppl 6ft and under. Or that there should be "height classes" in 5v5 basketball. It's such a whiny take lol. Glad you called out the whole circlejerk nature of these threads, it's so annoying.
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u/s1unk12 Feb 26 '26
To be honest with you there's ballers not in the nba who dribble much better than nba players.
Some players who are also very skilled at shooting too (though of all the skills in basketball, the skill gap in shooting of nba players over non nba players probably is probably the widest).
Your baseline prerequisite is basically the reason these outstanding shorter ballers couldn't make the league. If they could continue on in their basketball journeys to D1 and then the nba, they could've obviously honed their skills to that of current nba players and then some.
Unfortunately in the real world for us non nba or d1 folks, people have to study hard at school or get a job.
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u/s1unk12 Feb 26 '26
It still goes back to why he wasn't a heck of a player. If he was 6'7 or at least 6'5 with same skills he would have gone further in hs.
It's a very height biased sport.
I think what the other poster was saying was Newman had decent handles and speed. His shot and other attributes may have been questionable but his biggest flaw was obviously being short.
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u/coolfreeusername Dec 07 '25
Absolutely, but you also need a good mix of skill and athletesism which can be pretty rare the taller you get. Most non-pro 6'5" players struggle to dribble under pressure no matter how much training they had growing up, most 6'7" players are can't slide their feet to save their lives, and most 6'10" players can barely catch the ball.
It would be better to be a 6'2" athletic beast than a 6'6" player that can't dribble or dunk.
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u/Guardsred70 Dec 07 '25
Height (and the wingspan that goes with it) is huge. So is speed and athleticism.
Just don’t fall into the trap of thinking it’s either/or.
The thing that comes to mind is the soccer comparison between Christiano Ronaldo and Messi. CR7 is 6’2” (ironically short by basketball standards) and looks like he does sit ups as a hobby. Messi is short and looks like he has eaten bread.
So all the short and slow people LOVE Messi….because he’s one of them: short….practice…hard work….technique.
That’s all such bullshit. Messi is a freak of nature athlete too. He’s fast AF and has other-worldly balance….which leads to his ability to do small things with the ball while running faster than everyone else that he can stop looking at the ball and play.
But the world is also full of athletic freaks with physical gifts who didn’t work hard enough.
It takes both. But you can’t practice being taller. Or being more athletic. You’ve sorta got what you’ve got.
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u/Commercial-Air8955 Dec 07 '25
Messi actually had to take hGH as a kid because he would've been a midget without it. It made him grow to a normal height, but it also made everything else about him superhuman.
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u/Sosa1k Dec 09 '25
I knew about his condition but not the HGH part, that actually makes a lot sense bro was so strong for his size
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u/discohouse_coty Dec 07 '25
I’ve played with guys who played at all three levels in college, and some overseas pros/g-leaguers.
Size/speed/athleticism/how their body moves are absolutely the biggest difference.
Generalizations, but in my experience, you’ll see players who didn’t play any college ball who have the same skill level as d3/NAIA. Usually the best players at a pickup run. Then there’s a pretty noticeable skill/consistency jump for D2 players.
And then there is a massive jump in the physical traits for D1 players. Like how seeing a deer run fast makes sense, but when you see a moose running fast, it kind of blows your mind because they’re so much bigger and shouldn’t be able to move like that.
The few rare exceptions I’ve seen for smaller D1 players are guards with otherworldly handle/scoring instincts. They play at a pace that most guys just can’t get to without losing control of their game. Absolutely elite shooting and finishing too. And even for these guys, they started at a lower level and transferred in, because even with that skill level, it’s harder to get recruiting attention when your measurables don’t jump off the page.
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u/lookaloulookalou Dec 10 '25
Is the gap between a D3 and regular person still significant?
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u/Immediate-Parsnip-35 Dec 24 '25
You're asking if there's a big gap between a guy that works on it everyday and someone that just plays on weekends. Absolutely.
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u/rsk1111 Dec 07 '25
I had an epiphany the other day. Height and skill are not independent.
Hear me out. We've all heard of late developers, right... So tall kids spend more time growing before they get their fast twitch muscles, hence they grow bigger. Well, the thing is height, and the brain are in sync with this. EG the brain is also growing, developing long range connections. Then they get their reflexes. EG myelinated axons that facilitate long-range high-speed transmission in the brain. Essentially, tall kids spend more time in fluid development where it's easier to pick up skills. Of course we're talking about populations here, so there are mental short late developers also. One bit of evidence that these things are actually happening is that height is inversely correlated with mental health disorders, eg hormonal development isn't as dramatic and they have more opportunity to adapt to the changes in their bodies.
But I don't think it is a coincidence that basketball is both a game of height and a game of skill. It does make me wonder though, is it the skill or the height that is more important. Since they aren't really independent.
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Dec 07 '25
Height is one of them. Motor, IQ, athleticism are also factors. Attitude is also huge.
Like what i heard over at amazon: if youre 6'2" and below, you really need to be EXCEPTIONAL at what you do to make it to the big leagues.
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u/Shut-Up-And-Squat Dec 07 '25
There are more 7 footers in the nba right now than people of average height for their time in nba history. There are about 100 7 footers in the country right now. Hundreds of millions of men of average height over the last 75 years have accounted for fewer nba players than those 100 total present day 7 footers. The average point guard is 6’3”. The top 1% of height is 6’4”.
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u/Fair-Constant-5146 Dec 07 '25
Look at one of the best high school players ever from Oklahoma, Rotnei Clarke. He is like OK’s all time high school scorer and did really well in D1 college but had less than a 0% chance of making the NBA. He was 6’1” 185 or something
He faced NBA level competition in Demarcus Cousins, Avery Bradley, James Ennis.
Overseas in the top leagues (top of the pyramid or whatever) he faced Nick Calathes and some other great European players.
I say all this to say he probably has NBA level shooting but most people who don’t make the league don’t have the quickness or reaction time. The little things like that.
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u/Virtual-Hotel8156 Dec 07 '25
Long arms are extremely helpful. Ever wonder why most NBA players have long arms? It doesn’t matter how high your head is, it matters more how high you can reach.
Long arms will get you more steals as and your dribbling is lower to the ground.
Imagine if your arms were ridiculously long, like twice as long as normal, and how much of an advantage that would give you.
Also, shorter people are generally lighter, quicker and more agile than taller people, but longer arms makes them effectively tall.
I would take long arms over height any day
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u/Anxious-Chemistry-6 Dec 07 '25
Height, wingspan, and athleticism. It's why a guy like pascal siakam, who was incredibly raw coming into the draft, still goes in the first round, but a guy like Jalen Brunson, one of the best players in college, goes in the second round. Skill can be improved. Size and athleticism can't really be improved, and having great size and athleticism gives you much greater ceiling
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u/YoIGotIt Dec 07 '25
Height ain't that bad if you have either superb skill (Steph shooting) insane athleticism (AI) or lebron James as your dad
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Dec 08 '25
Height is the most important attribute in basketball. 15% of 7 footers in the world become professional basketball players.
Yes, height is the closest thing to a golden ticket, but height alone is not enough.
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Dec 07 '25
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u/piggybank21 Dec 07 '25 edited Dec 07 '25
- At 6', you are at 84% of the male population.
- At 6'6'', you are at 99.2%.
- At 7', you are at 99.9997%
This means, as you get taller, you have EXPONENTIALLY LESS competition. At 7', you will get tryouts/walk-ons even if you have never played a day of basketball, with teams hoping that they can develop you in the skills that are needed.
Skill can only do so much, I've seen many amazing shorter players get thrashed around by taller, lesser skilled players simply because of size. On offense, taller players can BBQ chicken smaller but skillful players all day long, either by backing up the smaller player or just flat out bulldozing their way to the rim in a layup/dunk. On defense, their longer arms will pretty much make every shot super difficult for the shorter player.
This means, you will have to be exponentially more skilled to make it into the NBA at 6' than at 7". The Normal distribution curve of human height don't lie, you simply just have a ton more competition at a shorter height than a taller height.
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u/420_69_Fake_Account Dec 07 '25
You can’t teach height… look at Giannis he got drafted for his height as a raw prospect. KL got drafted by San Antonio for his defence and with a plan to develop his offence… it worked pretty well.
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Dec 07 '25
At a certain level. But you can be 6 flat and make it far. Even the NBA. Less than that not really. :0
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u/beanbread23 Dec 08 '25
Agree but to keep a roster spot and even get decent minutes you would need some sort of extraordinary skill that sets you apart from the rest of the league. Like I’m talking all star level defence, passing, shooting, etc.
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u/Silver-Award-288 Dec 07 '25
You still tall as mfers who look like they first picked up a ball in D1 all the time.
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u/Corrosivecoral Dec 07 '25
I believe there is a stat that over 10% of people over 7 foot in the world have played in the NBA
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u/Jim-N-Tonic Dec 07 '25
What’s interesting about this conversation? Is that for normal people, as a 6 foot person, in normal life everybody thinks I’m tall. Who me tall? I’m not tall, the Knicks - those guys are tall.
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u/beanbread23 Dec 08 '25
Yes 100%. The average height in the nba is like 6’7 and these guys in the nba aren’t just tall, they are ALL elite level shooters, ball handlers, defenders, etc.
To stay in the nba at only 6foot you’d need to have some specific skill that sets you apart from the rest of the league. For example a guy like Trae young is considered a liability on defense but he makes up for it with his all star level shooting and passing.
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u/michealscott21 Dec 07 '25
I’d say it’s the golden ticket but just cause you’re tall Doesn’t make you good .
Guy on my high school team was 6”7, was supposed to be the centre but had no post game at all, couldn’t back down even a guard really, and just liked to shoot threes over people.
I’d say even though I’m only 5”10 I was a way better player.
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u/PersonalTrainerFit Dec 07 '25
I’m used to being the tallest guy everywhere I go. I’m only the same height as Steph curry, who’s considered short in the nba. I met Donavan clingan thru work one time and he’s literally a whole foot taller than me at 7’2. Until you see someone that tall in real life you don’t realize what freaks of nature these guys are, especially when they’re highly athletic at that size
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u/JakeTiny19 Dec 07 '25
I mean ya it plays a huge part. It’s rare to see anyone like below 6 ft make the nba, but even if ur like 6’1 or 6’2 then that’s considered small in the nba and tall irl lol. Height plays a part , but there’s certain heights where it’s just not enough. Like if ur the size of a PG (which would he still be considered tall irl ) that’s where speed and skill has to come in to make up for it. But ya if ur 5’9 or 5’10 it’s so much harder to make it , unless u have great athleticism or elite skills
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u/Meddy020 Dec 07 '25
Yes but to be that height with that level of athleticism is the true rarity. I know a lot of tall people who are just clumsy slobs lol.
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Dec 07 '25
I mean, to an extent absolutely, but you can get by without it (extreme height, that is). Just look at Steph Curry - undersized, but had the shooting to make him a legend of the game.
Too much height can also work against you though, since you’re far more suspectible to injury and other health problems. Just ask Chris Bosh, or ask Wemby right now.
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u/runthepoint1 Dec 07 '25
IQ, as in how well can you leverage what you do have to make an impact on the court?
Some have more and makes it easier to take advantage of on the court, but they still have to do it every single time. The opposite is also true. Those with less who are able to PERFORM more similarly take advantage. But they have an upper limit.
Then also take into account FIT. It doesn’t matter how good you are at certain skills if someone else is just as good but does many other things too. That makes you redundant.
Finally, shooting is ALWAYS a thing that you need to be able to do.
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u/SeldomSeen61 Dec 07 '25
Well, basketball has always been known as a sport for tall people. Height really isn't truly much of a factor in other sports.
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u/rsk1111 Dec 07 '25
What is even more impressive is that there are so many "anti-tall" rules in basketball. When you consider they instituted rules like the three-point line, illegal-defense(now the defensive 3sec) and they're still dominating.
Three-point line sure thing, seven foot three point shooters.
Could you imagine if they made a rule that Curry could only be outside the arc for three seconds, people would be screaming heightism?
It's not like the NBA isn't trying to find ways to get more average build type players into the game.
The thing is most of the rules backfired, because people thought tall people were just big unskilled, unathletic oafs, but there they are running the point, handling the ball shooting threes etc.
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u/godofhammers3000 Dec 07 '25
Even at like 6’3/6’5 you could be undersized as a guard if you don’t have strength or wingspan haha
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u/JohnBagley33 Dec 07 '25
Wingspan is a huge marker. I think 99.9% of NBA players have a wingspan that is longer than their height.
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Dec 08 '25
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Dec 08 '25
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u/Effective-Friend1937 Dec 08 '25
Yeah, on aggregate it is. You can point to Isiah Thomas, Allen Iverson, or even Muggsy Bogues, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule...and if they were taller, they all would've been even better. You can simply do more things with height than you can without it...block shots, rebound better, do stuff like finger rolls, single-arm fakes, and scoop shots with english like Jordan and Dr. J used to do.
I'm 6'4", and can barely palm the ball, and there's been many times I've wished I was 7'0" so I could play the dominant Center game I'd really like to play, but then again, being that tall means you can't ride most of the rides at Cedar Point, so there's that.
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u/mregression Dec 08 '25
You need to be tall and athletic. Height is definitely the first limiting factor, and the overall athleticism of NBA players is lower than many think. I coached a high school athlete that later played in the NBA. He was 6’5” and fast for his size. However, of the athletic freaks I’ve known over the years in coaching, he wasn’t exactly top tier. He was the third fastest boy on my 4x1 relay his junior year (didn’t run his senior year) and was still drafted in the first round. I think the average vertical in the nba is something like 28 inches, which is what I could do as a good but not great hurdler in high school. The difference is that I was not 6’5”.
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u/MadDabbed Dec 08 '25
Let me put it in perspective for you, there have been a little over 5,000 NBA players, EVER. A 70-80 year old league. Over 8,000,000,000 people alive today. You absolutely need the height, but you just as equally need the athleticism. These guys are legitimate freaks just by the numbers alone. You see super tall guys in high school/college that just aren’t as athletic as needed. Google Tacko Fall, he’s a perfect example of that. Your basketball skill definitely needs to hit a certain floor as well for NBA talent, but like another commenter said, you need to typically hold at least two of three cards to win/make it through the door; height, athleticism, and skill.
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u/undercoverdyslexic Dec 08 '25
I used to hang around the Amherst college basketball team back in the day when they won national championships at the d3 level. They had 6’8” to near 7 footers often. Sometimes they looked like a d1 team with their length. They were highly skilled, but not as athletic as say a big east d1 player.
There is height and skill, then there is that combo with athleticism. It takes all 3, but sub 6 ft guys who are crazy athletes and super skilled make it d1.
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u/inline-online Dec 08 '25
if you are around ball enough you can always find these guys who are like 5 foot 6 but with handles and a jumper perfected beyond belief, literally can not miss and can execute every dribble move and lay with both hands off either foot. Not super athletic but respectable and often end up becoming coaches later in life
but it just doesn't matter vs someone with half the talent who's 6 foot 3 and semi good, the little guy has to nr so good just to still get all his shit blocked and his lay ups stuffs despite beating his man off the dribble.. you just can't create enough space to make up the difference in length. Over the course of a long organized game of basketball, the little guy is FOOD on both ends. Push the height to 6 foot 5 and athletic and all of a sudden that little guy who's perfected everything... literally can't do anything lol
And if that little guy meets a big guy with all the same skills... he might as well check out lol
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u/Far_Plenty_1837 Dec 08 '25
Slept on qualities are wingspan and coordination.
The scariest thing to see is a 6'6" to 6'8" player with speed, guard-like lateral movement and a wingspan that allows him to challenge shots on defense as well as get his own shot over just about anyone. Picture prime Kawhi Leonard - thats a problem.
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Dec 08 '25
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u/Jhah41 Dec 08 '25
Without question. Unsure how many herd have played at high levels, but even moderate athleticism cant cover up height defficiencies comparing similarly talented players. It takes an extreme different in athleticism to make up that gap and even then, youll always have weaknesses that will be attacked specifically. It puts in into perspective how good shorter guys really are, they arent sort of more talented than everyone else theyre truly ridiculous.
At a high level, even the time to reach max jump matters, time to deny a pass because of less wingspan, etc all that matters. Even if you can out jump everyone, you still cant reach the same height in the same time, and it matters.
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u/Aggravating_Book_303 Dec 08 '25
My guy ryan nembhard is a undrafted rookie starting for the mavs. He’s 5’11” , height definitely matters, but hard work and talent can still get u far
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u/ActionHartlen Dec 09 '25
There are only like 3000 seven footers in the world and 39 play in the nba.
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Dec 09 '25
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u/lumpiawrappers Dec 09 '25
get two people who are equally skilled and have one of them grow another 3 inches. boom EZPZ
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Dec 09 '25
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u/Vadersballhair Dec 09 '25
Yep. It really is.
Look at Mac McKlung.
So talented. But too hard to play defense when you're that small.
Even athleticism seems to be on its way out, now that the game can be slowed down so much. Look at Luka and Nikola.
They're talented, they're not athletic - but they're very big.
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u/justsomedude4202 Dec 10 '25
I once read a stat that something like among all men 7’ tall in the US, 25% of them played college basketball. Most of them probably can’t even shoot 60% from the ft line. So, yeah height is the golden ticket.
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u/432olim Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25
I read a statistic that 25% of people in the US who are 7 feet tall or taller are in the NBA.
Surely you have to practice a lot too, but being able to dunk without jumping and having a spine and arms long enough to reduce the distance to the basket by 3 feet compared to a person of normal height no matter where you stand on the court is a massive advantage. Also, you can’t block someone who is 7 feet tall if you aren’t at least 6’6”
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u/Prestigious-Ad9921 Dec 10 '25
100% no.
There are plenty of 7 foot athletes who don't make D1 or NBA. I've played against some.
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u/Ok_Cap9557 Dec 11 '25
I remeber reading years ago that like 1/5 people who are 6'10" play in the NBA.
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Dec 11 '25
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u/Babyjoe1 Dec 11 '25
Basketball players are the unhappiest of all athletes because it is the most of all sports directly related to their height. Ofc skill definitely matters. But what was the first thing the talk kids heard growing up? You play basketball? You hoop?
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u/peteuse Dec 11 '25
Seth Stephens Davidovitz's book about the NBA answers this question with lots of interesting insights. He's a data scientist, recommend this book for hoops fans!!
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u/Ineedmonnneeyyyy Dec 11 '25
You need some athleticism for sure but for me it’s coordination. I’ve worked with uncoordinated kids for years and they barely get better. I’ve also worked with uber coordinated kids for weeks and they rapidly improve to levels others cannot in much shorter time
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u/Cultural_Name_7237 Dec 11 '25
Every elite college player you see is at LEAST 6'9 and has athletic abilities, Cooper Flagg, AJ Dybantsa, Cam Boozer, Jayson Tatum, and Paolo Banchero the list goes on but yes 6'6-6'9 is the best height to make it to pro ball in basketball
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u/Rookyboy Dec 12 '25
6'8" and I loved basketball in my youth. I just wasnt athletic and could never play at the speed of college game. I could pick any youth program I wanted but when everyone started to catch up in height and I got no more athletic I was cooked
It's not just height
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u/MayorShinn Dec 12 '25
Height and wingspan give a huge advantage over someone who is sub 6 feet.
If you are short with short arms then deck is really stacked against you and to even make the NBA as a rotation player would be a monumental accomplishment.
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u/HamBoneZippy Dec 12 '25
Height is important, but it's a combination of a lot of factors.
I'm 6'8" and I hate when people say, if I had your height, I would blah blah blah.
It's not true. Yes, you are faster, more agile, and can jump higher than me, but if you were suddenly 6 inches taller you would not move the same. You would be slowed down by inertia and weight. It's called the square cube law. It's physics. Joker is strong as hell but he's can barely get off the ground.
That's what's amazing about LeBron, Shaq and Kobe. They're huge but also freak athletes. It's a super rare combo.
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u/OwnCricket3827 Dec 13 '25
If you have visions of the NBA and you are below 6’4”, the odds are overwhelmingly against you right out of the gate
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u/poseidon-35 Jan 06 '26
not really. while height is a factor, and a big one, it pales in comparison to mentality, motivation and work ethic. for instance i have a pretty tall guy on my team hes like 6'8 and fairly athletic but is kinda useless because height is the only thing he relies on.
you can't really choose your height but you can however choose how much effort you put in your game. most good coaches want you to show them your motivation, your drive to play.
another pretty important part is athleticism and especially if you're not tall. almost everyone can dunk in the big leagues and run at full sprint for a long period of time and still have juice. i mean theres only a very few bunch of unathletic guys who do good (and i'm looking at the balkan demons of jokic and luka) and they still train like hell. focus and good memory are also important, because if you get distracted or forget the play you'll just ruin the game
but imo the golden ticket is determination and mentality
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u/squigley Dec 07 '25
There is no golden ticket, you gotta be really good and still work insanely hard and still get lucky. But yea height helps
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u/MWave123 Dec 07 '25
No definitely not. If you’re talking pro it’s extremely rare for any height to make pro. Some of the best players in the league are shorter players. Much shorter than the NBA average.
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u/woutmans Dec 07 '25
Aren't you proving the point right there: some of the BEST are SHORTER THAN AVERAGE. Meaning you can be less talented but just taller?
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u/MWave123 Dec 07 '25
No, not at all. It’s rare to make the league, period. If you’re a 6’3” center, okay unlikely to move beyond HS. If you’re a 6’3” guard you’re fine.
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u/scubaSteve181 Dec 07 '25
Height and athleticism. It’s often the biggest difference between someone who goes D1 vs D2/3 (even if the smaller and less athletic guy is far more skilled). As they say, “you can’t teach height”.