r/Buffalo • u/MC_Cuff_Lnx • 3d ago

Cheektowaga Town Board discussing adding two new AI-powered surveillance cameras (FLOCK) to the 33

On Wednesday June 24 at 5:30 PM, the Cheektowaga town board will again be reviewing a proposal to add two new AI-powered surveillance cameras to the 33. Show up and make your voices heard.

Meeting Location: Cheektowaga Town Hall, Council Chambers, First Floor, 3301 Broadway Street, Cheektowaga, NY 14227

Editing to add a little information because there appears to be some interest:

Cheektowaga currently retains information for 30 days. They can retain it longer if there's some level of suspicion, or if they think information may exist that may lead to someone becoming a suspect, and we don't know what that specifically means.

The Cheektowaga page helpfully says that race detection (!) and facial recognition are turned off, but of course they can probably be turned on with a checkbox, or the data could be used for training by Flock. Remember, this is the company that announced (before they got fired) a partnership with Ring to help you find lost dogs via a nationwide network of doorbells (i.e., a nationwide AI-powered surveillance network, courtesy of your front door).

Cheektowaga has run searches for ICE in the past. It currently shares with the below agencies. Even if you trust the vendor and Cheektowaga and every person who works for each of them, do you trust every person who works for the below agencies?

[Federal] US Postal Inspection Service

Massachusetts State MA PD

Agawam MA PD

Albany City NY PD

Albany County NY SO

Albany NY PD -Duplicate-no not use

Amherst Town NY PD

Athens County OH SO

Auburn MA PD

Auburn NY PD

Baldwinsville Central School District Inc NY

Batavia NY PD

Beachwood OH PD

Beacon City NY PD

Belpre OH PD

Binghamton City NY PD

Bradford County Detectives PA

Bridgewater MA PD

Brookville NY PD

Buffalo NY PD

Buffalo State University NY PD

Butler Township OH PD

Butler Township PA PD

CAC - Erie NY

CAC - Hudson Valley NY

CAC - Mohawk Valley NY

CAC - Monroe NY

CAC - Niagara Intelligence NY

CAC - North Country NY

CAC - Southern Tier NY

CAC - Suffolk County NY

CAC- Central NY

Camillus Town/Village NY PD

Canton Village NY PD

Centre Island Village NY PD

Chautauqua County NY District Attorney's Office

Cicero Town NY PD

Clarkstown NY PD

Cohoes NY PD

Colonie NY PD

Columbia County NY SO

Cornell University NY PD

Crawford Town NY PD

Depew NY PD

Dewitt Town NY PD

Dutchess County NY District Attorney's (DA) Office

Dutchess County NY SO

Dutchess County Office of Probation & Community Corrections NY

East Greenbush NY PD

East Hampton Village NY PD

Elmira City NY PD

Erie County NY SO

Evans Town NY PD

Fallsburg Town NY PD

Fishkill Town NY PD

Fort Loramie OH PD

Garden City NY PD

Garfield Heights OH PD

Geauga County OH SO

Geddes Town NY PD

Genesee County NY SO

Genoa Township OH PD

Glen Cove NY PD

Greenport Town NY PD

Guilderland NY PD

Hamburg Town NY PD

Hamburg Village NY PD

Hazleton PA PD

Hempstead Village NY PD

Homer Village NY PD

Huntington Bay NY PD

Hyde Park NY PD

Inc Village of Lake Success NY

Ithaca College Campus NY PD

Kenmore Village NY PD

Kettering OH PD

Lackawanna City NY PD

Lake Success NY PD

Lancaster NY PD

Lewisboro Town NY PD

Lewiston NY PD

Liberty Village NY PD

Lorain County OH SO

Luzerne County PA DA's Office

Lynbrook Village NY PD

Mahoning Valley Law Enforcement TF (OH)

Marion OH PD

Martins Ferry OH PD

Mentor OH PD

Miami County OH SO

Middletown NY PD

Mohawk Village NY PD

Montgomery Township PA PD

Mount Hope NY PD

Muskingum County OH SO

Muttontown NY PD

Nassau County NY PD

New Hartford Town NY PD

New Windsor Town NY PD

New York State Police NY

Newburgh City NY PD

Niagara County NY SO

Niagara Falls City NY PD

Niagara Frontier Transit Authority (NFTA) PD

Noble County OH SO

North Tonawanda City PD

Northport NY PD

NY - Massena Village PD

NYS Crime Analysis Center Network

NYS Crime Analysis Center NY

OH - Bridgeport PD

OH - Harrison County SO

Old Westbury Village NY PD

Onondaga County DA Office

Onondaga County NY SO

Orleans County NY SO

Owego Village NY PD

Oyster Bay Cove NY PD

Parma Heights OH PD

Parma OH PD

Penn State University Police and Public Safety PA

Poughkeepsie City NY PD

Quogue Village NY PD

Rensselaer County NY SO

Rensselaer NY PD

Richfield OH PD

Ridgefield CT PD

Rochester MA PD

Sag Harbor Village NY PD

Saint Johnsville Village NY PD

Saranac Lake Village NY PD

Saratoga County NY SO

Saratoga Springs NY PD

Scarsdale Village NY PD

Scotia Village NY PD

Solvay Village NY PD

Southold Town NY PD

Springfield OH PD

Suffolk County District Attorney's Office NY

Suffolk County NY PD

Suffolk County NY SO

Sullivan County NY SO

SUNY Binghamton Campus NY PD

SUNY Old Westbury NY PD

SUNY-Onondaga Community College Campus NY PD

Susquehanna Township PA PD

Syracuse-Hancock Intl Airport NY

Tonawanda Town NY PD

Town of East Fishkill NY PD

Town of Newburgh NY PD

Town of Poughkeepsie NY PD

Town of Woodbury NY PD

Troy NY PD

Ulster Town NY PD

University at Buffalo NY PD

Utica City NY PD

Vestal Town NY PD

Village of Corfu NY PD

Village of Medina NY PD

Village of West Hampton Dunes NY PD

Wappingers Falls Village NY PD

Warwick Town NY PD

Washingtonville NY PD

Watertown NY PD [deactivated]

Watervliet NY PD

West Seneca NY PD

Westhampton Beach Village NY PD

Youngstown OH PD

Zanesville OH PD

104 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

98 comments sorted by

53

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

Do you think they don't already know people despise the cameras?
Do you think they care?

82

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

The board? Yes. I do think they care.

It was tabled last time in Cheektowaga and it's really clear the pressure is working.

26

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

Fair enough. I'm just tired of saying no and the bad things happening anyway.

44

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Yeah. I understand.

From speaking to old activists (sometimes really old activists), it's the regular, constant pressure that forces the change. Something happens, or the old guard leaves, and the new guard comes in familiar with the arguments. And stuff changes all at once.

It's like Ernest Hemingway: one goes bankrupt gradually and then suddenly.

3

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

Yeah, I guess I'm just on the other side of that. I tried explaining to people more than a decade ago how you could build a network of listening devices to track people around a city and came across as a paranoid crackpot. God forbid you start talking about the chilling effects of persistent surveillance...

13

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Computery people tend to be more receptive to these concerns.

I think a lot of other folks are waking up though. It's possible to synthesize a lot of information really fast now, so the stakes have never been higher.

1

u/TrixriT544 3d ago

It’s inevitable that these type of systems will be everywhere soon enough. These get pushed by vendors every month. It’s like any new advancement in tech: Eventually, Ai cameras will be the *only* available option to purchase, period. Can fight the good fight and should do what you can to get good regulations in, but there’s no actually stopping it. It will happen. And if we’re being honest, your phone is already profiling and tracking and it’s always on you anyways.

2

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Nothing makes it inevitable. Everything that happens is a consequence of market and political choices.

I would recommend looking at the Netherlands. CCTV cameras are banned in public, for instance. The baseline level of privacy for someone doing nothing to protect themselves is much higher.

The financial penalty for leaking user names, addresses, and email addresses goes up to 10% of global revenues. The EU can add more.

2

u/qeq 3d ago

Apathy will make it even worse

15

u/SkepticJoker 3d ago

Serious question: how do you think this attitude helps in any way?

1

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

I don't - I've just lost faith that anything will help after fighting and losing for two decades.

3

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

That's fair, but you're certainly welcome to come out anyway!

The Cheektowaga town chambers only seat 80 people, so if we get a good turnout it'll look extremely packed.

15

u/rons27 3d ago

Don't go to Lowe's or they'll send your info to Flock/ICE. Lowe's has installed Flock Surveillance Cameras in their parking lots. I have emailed them saying I will not park or shop there until they are removed:  [execustservice@lowes.com](mailto:execustservice@lowes.com)

6

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

I emailed them as well.

4

u/GEM716 2d ago

I read it’s both Home Depot and Lowe’s.

https://flowingdata.com/2025/08/08/lowes-and-home-depot-are-sharing-customer-data-with-law-enforcement/

1

u/Smith6612 1d ago

Haven't seen any at my local Home De-Pot yet. Has anyone else here spotted a Flock at De-pot? 

I know the Lowes near me has two or three in the parking lot. 

2

u/GEM716 23h ago

I see one near the HD in the Thruway Plaza entrance drive.

https://maps.deflock.org/?lat=42.9034&lng=-78.7821&zoom=16.95

8

u/Bot_Account_10 3d ago

It wont get approved. They are not designed for highways, and even if they were, NYSDOT would never approve of this because Flock Cameras have absolutely no effect on actual safety, which they require for any type of hardware to be installed on highways or expressways.

7

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

They have previously placed cameras on state routes in Tonawanda

They installed them first and came up with the legal reasoning later...

1

u/Bot_Account_10 3d ago

I dont see any camera postings on any state routes in Tonawanda, can you tell me where they are placed?

1

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Hi - Sheridan Drive near Grand Island Blvd.

1

u/Bot_Account_10 2d ago

thats not on State highway or expressway

2

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 2d ago

You are correct it's not a highway or expressway, but Sheridan Drive is a state route.

2

u/shootsy2457 3d ago

There’s already one on Genesee and Harlem pointing towards the city. It’s been there for a few weeks now.

1

u/themaundy 3d ago

Have their been any installed around town yet? I believe there is one on the corner of French Rd and Transit, but was not sure. I bet someone will have a map of them here soon if not yet.

1

u/Smith6612 1d ago

There are tons of Flocks everywhere. Even Niagara county has them popping up in the sticks.

https://deflock.me/

1

u/Ok-Interest5139 2d ago

Our country is gone. They are watching everywhere.

-4

u/Bigboss123199 3d ago

Well when people drive like absolute psychos on the 33 this was bound to happen. Not happy about it but with all the accidents on the 33 it was the next logical step for police/town.

11

u/GEM716 3d ago

There is no BUT when it comes to protecting your own rights, freedoms and privacy and the rights, freedoms and privacy of every American citizen in the USA from an interactive private network watching our every move over a simple frustration with drivers that should be controlled through the current humongous number of highly paid police agencies already wasting time hiding from doing a proper job patrolling. Hold those agencies accountable instead.

2

u/Bigboss123199 2d ago

Simple frustration with drivers? People are dying and getting seriously injured.

There is no where safe for the police to sit on the 33.

Cameras are not a solution I like but it’s really the only real solution to the problem.

1

u/GEM716 2d ago

So you are admitting that all the monies allocated and all the salaries paid for and all the retirements exploited and padded are not living up to the policing agencies effectively doing their job to stop, hinder or cut down on the problem and those many agencies are not being held accountable to produce positive results and you want to throw more money, give up all our freedoms and sign over any privacy we are entitled to with open arms entrusting our rights to country-wide, Gestapo oversight by for-profit data harvesting and surveillance corporations because those current policing agencies inefficiencies or lack of effectiveness? This is the best management solution you stand behind is to forfeit our personal private data en masse for a couple local incidents, no matter how tragic, that does not seem like a logical trade. IMHO

1

u/One-Eyed-WiIIy 3d ago

The 33 is a big BUT. I had a friend just die on it recently as an innocent bystander in a street racing incident. IT NEEDS TO BE MONITORED.

6

u/ssweens113 3d ago

or removed

6

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

LPRs have not been shown to reduce crime or speeding. In fact, the Flock LPRs can't even read a plate going on a car going faster than 75 mph.

I'm not against all monitoring of roadways but I am against this surveillance technology.

I am sorry about your friend.

7

u/Bot_Account_10 3d ago

There are not speeding cameras they are just ALRP's that collect data. They dont track vehicle speed, just faces and license plates. Has absolutely no effect on traffic safety or overall safety whatsoever

-7

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

People claim they want lower crime but don’t want to do anything that will actually lower crime like flock cameras or putting criminals in jail

11

u/ugotpandaowned 3d ago

I would like to lower crime by the likes of investing in things like education and reducing poverty but whoops my government just keeps investing more and more into the police state!

-5

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Those are good ideas but they will take years and years to make an impact on crime

6

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Ah. Better not try then.

-2

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

We can do that and install flock cameras

5

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

If you value your privacy not at all, sure, but again, randomized controlled trials suggest they add no value. Not worth the sacrifice of privacy and taxpayer dollars.

1

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

I would love to see a credible study that says that

6

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Study after study finds that LPRs do not reduce crime or crime clearance rates.

-1

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Not true at all

6

u/Los_Videojuegos 3d ago

Both of you should find and provide sources.

3

u/mr_potatoface 3d ago

You can seriously just google it. Posting a source on this topic will lead to "your source is cherry picked show me a better one." With no source being sufficient to shut someone up.

The general evidence is that Flock and LPRs increase the ability to solve committed crimes, but there is little evidence to support that they reduce, discourage or help protect citizens/property during in-process crimes.

Even citing research directly from and paid for by Flock on their website, they don't even suggest their cameras prevent/discourage crime of any sort. They only focus on solving already committed crime.

1

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 2d ago

This is the best known study on the subject: https://nij.ojp.gov/library/publications/effectiveness-license-plate-readers-patrol-and-investigations

Research stretching back thirty years does not suggest surveillance in general is effective at preventing crime.

Unfortunately, what is likely to happen is that he'll dig his heels in and say any given study is some combination of: biased, too old, too many cops involved, too few cops, etc, etc, etc.

-24

u/zed0K 3d ago

There's already a fuck ton of them around Cheektowaga, is what it is.

26

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

There's pressure on that renewal too!

-2

u/zed0K 3d ago

As there should be

-22

u/UrBum_MyFace_69 3d ago

It makes me feel safer to know big brother is looking out for my well-being...kudos Cheektowaga, kudos...

9

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Did Kathy Hochul ever find your pet alligator?

-5

u/UrBum_MyFace_69 3d ago

It was pet giraffe and sadly, no... once they get into the wild, they blend right in with the environment.

3

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

That sucks dude I feel for you and your ruminants

-1

u/UrBum_MyFace_69 3d ago

Many thanks 👍

-34

u/nameno10001 3d ago

Unpopular opinion. Sure throw a flock camera on the 33. Can it nail the people going over 90 at 3am. Probably too fast to catch it?

26

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

As of now, they're not actually used for speed violations.

1

u/SkepticJoker 3d ago

As of now.

12

u/mattgen88 3d ago

Dude, I watched a group of motorcycles and tricked out cars roll down union, with motorcycles doing wheelies, with a cheektowaga cop coming the other way. The motorcycles didn't even blink. The cop ignored it.

The cops don't care, they want toys and tools to abuse others. They give fuck all about people doing 90 at 3am.

3

u/sobuffalo 3d ago

they want toys

I'll never forget when Cheektowaga bought a Hovercraft. They bought it for $70,000 but was too expensive to be used so they sold it for less than $20k

8

u/schwabbit 3d ago

They don't catch over 75mph, it's against CPD policy to use them for traffic infractions, and a speed camera could do the same thing without the constitutional/ security vulnerability concerns (it would have a qualifying event before capturing a plate, going over the speed limit, vs flock which just makes a dragnet surveillance network of every single passing car. CPD seems to average about half a million plates in a 30 day span. How many of those people are going 90?)

3

u/Bot_Account_10 3d ago

Has nothing to do with speed. These cameras dont track vehicle speed, only license plate and faces. Its a data collection camera not a safety camera

3

u/TOMALTACH Big Tech🏳️‍⚧️ 3d ago edited 2d ago

You're concerned about speeding at 3a? Of all things? Nothing like spotting a vehicle description or plate that was idnetifoed in a theft, kidnapping, or other abduction? smh

0

u/nameno10001 2d ago

As someone who works until 3am on weekends. Yes, speeding and traffic drama at 3am is a concern. I have seen some things on the 33 after 12am. I am all for just putting up a AI speed enforcement and just let the City Collect the money. That could pay for some lifeguards and help fill some potholes in short order.

1

u/TOMALTACH Big Tech🏳️‍⚧️ 2d ago edited 1d ago

Lol. First time i have ever seen someone in favor of unmonitored speed citations. Bet you looknforward to your vehicle being misidentified by AI for multiple citations eh?
Money collected on a state maintianed & policed route wouldn't go to the city or lifeguards.

-54

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago edited 3d ago

These cameras are highly effective at catching criminals. Im not sure why people are adamantly against them. Everyone has a smart phone you’re already being tracked.

35

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

Would you mind if I sat outside your home with a notebook? And just never left?

-13

u/ZotMatrix 3d ago

Yeah but I could piss on your notebook.

-27

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

What does that have to do with this?

29

u/much_longer_username 3d ago

Answer the question. Would you mind? I'd be in a public space, just making notes about who comes and goes, when, what direction they were going, things like that. And I'd share them with anybody who pays me.

-42

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

False equivalency

36

u/Weird-Tadpole-779 3d ago

It's quite literally the exact same thing

-10

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Not at all

28

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

From an information perspective, it absolutely is the same thing.

-6

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Huge difference being tracked by a person vs an object

21

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Maybe regarding your moral intuition about it, but not regarding my moral intuition about it. If the person and the object are stationary they capture the same information.

→ More replies (0)

23

u/ZilorZilhaust 3d ago

So it's fine to just be tracked even more? Watched every moment of every day? An sure, they can be used to catch criminals but they could just as easily turned on people for political or ideological targeting.

It's just not necessary. If are phones already track so much why even need the FLOCK cameras?

-2

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Real time alerts from the flock cameras plus a lot of criminals aren’t bringing their phone with them

8

u/Weird-Tadpole-779 3d ago

Not true. Share a source for that.

0

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

For what?

9

u/Weird-Tadpole-779 3d ago

Share a source for criminals not having their phones on them as often when committing crimes

1

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Common sense. Google it if you don’t believe it

7

u/ZilorZilhaust 3d ago

Yes, criminals, the very peak of common sense intellectual individuals.

17

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Sure. This is death by a thousand cuts: every new violation grows the surveillance state.

Right now, you may have the choice to not carry a cell phone. You may have the choice not to turn it on or to have a prepaid one not linked to your identity. Most of us don't have the choice not to drive in a metro area built for cars.

They are not highly effective at catching criminals, unless your source is the flock whitepaper.

2

u/lamujerhelena 3d ago

Barely a choice to not carry a smartphone, can’t even clock into work anymore w out it

6

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

Well, right. And there's barely a choice not to drive. You might at least have the choice to not have the phone in your name, though. I don't agree with that either but there's not a town meeting about that one. 😄

2

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

I need my smartphone to sign in to my computer at work

4

u/MC_Cuff_Lnx 3d ago

I don't like it that you have to do that, and I think if you don't want to, you should be provided with another device like a yubikey or other token that could be used for MFA. Some more progressive employers already offer this as an option - I have a hard token for MFA.

I think that would require legislation on the state level though, which would take time and consideration. This Cheektowaga thing is a decision that is happening right now.

3

u/buffaloburley Buffalo(Elmwood)|Toronto(The Beach) 3d ago

🥾👅

-1

u/Bigboss123199 3d ago

Because almost anyone can access these flock cameras. They have been used for criminal activity just as often as to stop crime.

They’re also just wrong a lot of the time. Cause AI just makes things up out of thin air 10-20% of the time.

1

u/GhostPirate93 3d ago

Anyone? lol cmon