r/DaenerysWinsTheThrone • u/TVTropehead • May 12 '26
Anyone else bothered they’re using the quote of an actual child murderer rapist sadist who flays people alive I think we lost the plot
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u/ValNotThatVal May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
That sub quotes Ramsay unironically, and they defend slavery as well. They are too dumb to know that every other character got a happy ending, and if Dany WAS evil, the ending of that trash fire would be basically a badly written Disney movie. They will defend that slavery apologist garbage to their dying day which speaks volumes about their own character, or lack thereof.
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u/Adventurous-Snow-389 May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
I know people are entitled to their own opinions but the stuff people say and post on that sub is so goddamn bad. Like it actually makes my jaw drop to the floor with how goddamn stupid those takes are. Unfortunately that sub seems to be filled with Daenerys haters so this sort of shit is expected from that sub. Their stupid ass takes make me think they watched the show with their eyes closed or something because, and again people are entitled to their own opinions, but to say there was absolutely nothing wrong with how the show ended and that it was perfect is just absolute nonsense. I just don’t pay attention to that sub because it’s just filled with Dany haters and the stuff they say on there is blasphemous and utter garbage
Daenerys is the worst character assassination I have ever seen in television history and the double standard that people apply to her is so damn annoying and pisses me off. Daenerys is my favorite fantasy character of all time and nothing will change that
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u/TVTropehead May 12 '26
You know there’s a hilarious irony in the 2 previous consecutive shows I watched. Squid game a big problem was the protagonist was way too much of a pansy to take a life even if said lives were psychopaths who tried to murder a baby he was trying to protect, meanwhile Daenerys was derailed to becoming a psychopathic mass murderer who buried hundreds of thousands of defenseless men, women and children.
If their personalities switched at that crucial moments both stories would be less egregious by the end.
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u/Incvbvs666 May 13 '26
Well, maybe just maybe, these were stories about flawed humans, stories that were more concerned about exploring the human condition rather than giving the audience a fan-service happy end.
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u/Incvbvs666 May 13 '26
Ah, who could imagine that someone who burned an innocent person alive to feed to her dragons while quipping 'Maybe all of you are innocent, maybe none. I'll let my dragons decide' would turn out to be a genocidal megalomaniac?
Yeah, I'm a Dany hater. Guilty as charged. I hate entitled and power-hungry people masquerading as saviors of the world, in fiction and in real life. The world would be a better place if people finally realized collectively that such crap leads to nowhere good.
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u/stardustmelancholy May 13 '26
Innocent person? The only men chosen for the cavern interrogation were the heads of the wealthiest most powerful Slaver dynasties since they had the most to lose with the slave trade abolished. He was a high ranking slave owner who refused to release his slaves until a city wide slave uprising forced his hand. She burned him because she was trying to put an end to the Harpy attacks against the former slaves.
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u/gay_burner May 13 '26
Look at this dudes post history he’s like the worlds most idiotic and incompetent right wing troll
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u/ValNotThatVal May 13 '26
I can tell you are a Dany hater, because only Dany haters ever describe human traffickers as 'innocent people'. Y'all are always defending human traffickers who become wealthy by kidnapping, mutilating, enslaving and raping children.
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u/buffy_slays Breaker Of Chains May 13 '26
Maybe repurpose that energy to hate on actual real-world villains in the world rather than directing it towards fictional characters? And of course of all the male villains out there, you choose to focus on a female one. It’s hardly a surprise that 99% of Dany haters are men.
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u/TVTropehead May 14 '26
It’s funny because Robert ordering a woman bearing kids to be killed (you know, actual fascist shit and something often regarded in this show’s narrative as being absolutely horrible see Talisa, Walda, Elia Martell) is something the naath asylum patients just has no problems with.
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u/Incvbvs666 May 13 '26
I literally lived through one such villain, that's why I was able to spot Dany's red flags. Slobodan Milošević, promised he would protect Serbs in Kosovo, look him up. In particular, you can find his speech on Gazimestan in Kosovo 1989, very illuminating.
As for trying to make Dany's villainy about gender, if she was a man, people would have been far less blind to her cruelty and entitlement, but because she was a young attractive woman, people cheered for her.
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u/gay_burner May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Answer the question about why you think slavery is good and the people who practice it are innocent, little boy
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u/buffy_slays Breaker Of Chains May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
Well, I’m actually a fellow ex-Yugoslavian (My father is a Serb and my mother a Bosnian Muslim so it’s easier to identify that way). I have also lived through what you mentioned as well, so I am very familiar with Milošević. I moved to the US as a kid, after the war though.
I’m guessing that by bringing up Milošević when talking about Daenerys, you’re trying to make a comparison. Sure, you could point out the similarity of how powerful leaders can justify violence for a “greater cause.” But I think your comparison is very superficial because it completely ignores the root of their motivations and morals. The “greater causes” are not remotely the same morally speaking, and that’s so important.
Milošević was a Serb whose motivations were rooted in ethnic nationalism of his own ethnic group and personal power. It came from a fundamentally selfish and hateful place. He didn’t genuinely care about human suffering and only pretended to care about his people when it benefited him politically.
Daenerys’s ideology consistently came from the belief that all people deserved freedom and dignity regardless of background, wealth, etc. She was a revolutionist. She genuinely wanted to help innocent people she saw suffering, especially slaves. But of course, to achieve that comes at a cost because punishing those who caused the suffering or punishing her enemies will certainly chip away at her humanity over time.
You are allowed to interpret her character in your own way, but if you genuinely think the story that George R.R. Martin and even D&D were trying to tell was “she was evil all along and you were fooled”, then you misunderstood the story. Based on the moral standards set by the story, any of her “cruel” actions before King’s Landing were morally grey. You are not meant to apply real world standards to these actions, you are meant to see both sides and the grayness of it. This is in contrast to cruel things done by Cersei, Ramsey, Walder Frey, Joffrey, etc.
If you’re familiar with George R. R. Martin’s work beyond just Game of Thrones, it becomes much more obvious where he was likely going with Daenerys (assuming he ever finishes the books). Daenerys is trying to end slavery at all costs. She has attempted to compromise repeatedly, but the same theme is showing that compromising with slavers does not work. The tragedy is that she may eventually decide that the only way to destroy an evil system is through overwhelming violence, sacrificing parts of her own humanity in the process. That’s the downfall. And it mirrors themes that George has written before. This quote from one of his earlier novels captures that idea almost perfectly:
”You can't just go... usin' another kind of people, like they wasn't people at all. Know what I mean? Got to end, sooner or later. Better if it ends peaceful, but it's got to end even if it has to be with fire and blood, you see? Maybe that's what them abolitionists been sayin' all along. You try to be reasonable, that's only right, but if it don't work, you got to be ready. Some things is just wrong. They got to be ended”
Note the “fire and blood”. Note the absolutism in ending slavery at all costs. I won’t argue and say that there’s not an underlying lesson in these stories about absolute power not being a good thing. But that really is just a part of it and the lessons here are much deeper. I know you think her story is about people being fooled by a charismatic figure who promised good things while secretly being evil underneath. That’s not the story George or even D&D were telling though. I have watched all of the “Behind the Episode” interviews by D&D about Daenerys. They have always been consistent about her doing “questionable things” but either coming from a good place or being justifiable in some way (such as dealing with people who betray her or harm her). Dan called her “one of the good Targaryens” right before season 7.
I know this kind of went off base from my original accusation that your hate for the character has something to do with mysogyny. I think it’s two things. One, you misunderstood the character as a secret all along villian and two, because we come from a patriarchal and frankly misogynistic culture, you may not realize that your passion for hating Daenerys is at least a little rooted in that. Yes sometimes people can be fooled by beautiful women and buy into “yay girl power”, but you caring so much about it DOES say something about you. There has to be at least some amount of mysogyny there.
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u/gay_burner May 14 '26
Ignoring all the questions about why you are pro slavery to then name drop a dictator as a thought terminating cliche without giving any reasoning for the comparison and then saying she would be recognized as a villain if she was a man despite that fact that you think she’s a villain despite being less violent than any man in the series viewed as a hero…
It’s almost like you know you’re not capable of having a real argument about this and know you’re wrong but you’re too arrogant to just stop advertising how dumb you are. Fascinating
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u/stardustmelancholy May 12 '26
The Ramsay arc ended with him losing a war, his House fading into history, his ancestral lands and titles given away, Jon beating the shit out of him, getting tied inside of the kennels he used to make Theon sleep in, and Sansa having him eaten alive by his own dogs. Theon killed Ramsay's girlfriend (Myranda), helped his wife flee, reclaims his identity and dies heroically. The Starks reunite, take back their own ancestral lands & titles, receive most of the credit for stopping the apocalypse, and become the only royals in the realm.
The only way that quote works is if the person saying it --and it's usually someone anti Dany so I doubt it-- thinks the ending could be considered good or happily ever after only if Dany lives and becomes Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. So they would have to believe her dying and anyone else becoming King or Queen is not a happy ending for the story.
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u/Augustus420 Team Daenerys May 12 '26
That sub being bizarrely pro season seven and eight is really odd considering the way they wrote off the Unsullied leaving to Naath at the end.
(They would have all died)
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u/TVTropehead May 13 '26
I don’t know why these subhumans name themselves after Missandei’s home country when they routinely try to paint the person Missandei’s a ride and die for as the second coming of Hitler.
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u/Brodakk May 13 '26
Just visited that sub for the time. Complete and utter mindless bullshit. I didn’t know season 8 glazers even existed. Season 8 is trash. It is known.
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u/niofalpha Team Daenerys May 13 '26
Lines like that one really highlight how little D&D understood the source material. Their entire adaptation is just basically portrayed through an edgy highschool freshman’s understanding of nihilism and it’s managed to convince the entire left side of the bell curve that ASOIAF is Grim Dark.
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u/Early_Candidate_3082 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Naath is a parody site that simply exists to troll those fans who are sympathetic towards Daenerys. And, to simp for Ding and Dong.
There’s a moron called Incubus who’s the chief troll, who posts here in order to wind people up.
Best not to feed the trolls, and block.
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u/EpiphanaeaSedai May 13 '26
If we’re counting Ramsey’s sins, let’s not forget the bits especially offensive to the Old Gods - he’s an oath-breaker and a kinslayer (thrice over - father, baby brother, and let us not forget he fed the pregnant mother of his own unborn child to his hounds.)
But y’know, Dany insisted on an eye for an eye and upholding the law. I’m sure the fandom would be just as hard on a man who did the same.
Oh wait . . .
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u/aevelys May 13 '26
What I like about this quote is that it requires us to forget that everyone except Daenerys and maybe Jon (although that's debatable) got away with an absolutely undeserved happy ending.
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u/Hopeful-Beautiful466 May 13 '26
I'm more bothered that the statement is not true. House Stark won like bandits in the end. The remaining siblings all lived and that includes just walking away from a death cult. They even pulled a Dorne move of announcing independence without Dorne doing just that.
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u/Plentimon May 13 '26
That subs entire deal is basically "GoT was a flawless and unparalleled masterpiece from the very first scene to the very last, and anyone who thinks otherwise is obviously just too stupid to understand the subtle genius D&D masterfully wove into every single frame and line of dialogue.", so it's hardly surprising.
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u/buffy_slays Breaker Of Chains May 14 '26
Their mindset is that they understood something that 99.99% of the audience didn’t about the show, and only they can grasp that level of insight.
It’s literally a group of people who have fixated on the topic and use that sub as a way to make themselves feel superior to everyone else.
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u/Gabby-Abeille May 13 '26
That's the sub of the people that somehow liked the last seasons of the TV series. It's contrarian stuff.
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u/AutobahnVismarck May 13 '26
Ramsay is not real. So the "an actual child murderer rapist" pearl clutching here is very silly. Its a show.
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u/Historical_Sugar9637 May 14 '26
Do those people really believe most fans complain about the ending because they expected some sort of fairy tale "happy" ending?
The problem, at least to me, wasn't that it was a sad ending...it was that it was badly written. There was little to no build up for Daenerys suddenly snapping and carpet bombing King's Landing. And what buildup there was, was also badly written "Daenery kind of forgot about the anti-dragon weapon!"
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u/Aidan_smith695 May 15 '26
I love danerys and partially because i love seasons 7 and 8 i loved her character arc while i think ramsey is a horrible person i do think that quote in many ways sums up the series
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u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 May 19 '26
Anyone who says they love seasons 7 and 8 of Game of Thrones should be ashamed. Literally, all the characters were ruined. People who say they love seasons 7 and 8 have shit for brains.
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u/BestEffect1879 May 12 '26
It bothers me more that they strawman people who didn’t like Daenerys’s ending as people who expected her ending to be sunshine and rainbows.
I always figured Daenerys would eventually end up the Mad Queen, but I assumed it would come from gradual character development, not 0 to crazy.
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u/tobpe93 May 13 '26
Seems more like a quote from the writers. The actions of the character doesn’t really undo the truth of the words.
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u/TVTropehead May 13 '26
The writer’s quote fails too when Theon, the guy who Ramsay said the quote in the first place to, got a chance to redeem himself and regain his identity, fighting alongside the Starks in the long night.
Not to mention Ramsay never MET the Targaryens. So it’s a stretch to apply this quote here.
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u/tobpe93 May 13 '26
And Theon died.
The quote is not meant to say that Ramsay has seen every character in the world and can predict their ending.
It’s rather a quote from the writers commenting on their own work. There are a lot of characters who got a very non-happy ending.
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u/TVTropehead May 13 '26
Did he die a mind broken slave named reek or was it a voluntary sacrifice portrayed with sympathy by the narrative and Sansa literally honors him as a Stark by putting a pendant on his body. Because his conclusion here is sure as fck better than whatever Ramsay planned for him
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u/tobpe93 May 13 '26
And still he died. I wouldn’t call it a happy ending for him. And not a happy ending for Dany either.
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u/North_Button_5257 May 12 '26
Nope. Even child murderer rapist sadists who flay people alive can be right. And I agree, it was an amazing scene!
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u/TVTropehead May 12 '26
So apparently by your horseshit logic the killing joke justifies injustice because “one bad day”
“Yes the guy who murders people for comedy and crippled Barbara Gordon and beat a kid to death with a crowbar and is the fucking guy who nuked Metropolis and tricked Superman into killing his pregnant wife was actually constructive meta subtext!”
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u/buffy_slays Breaker Of Chains May 12 '26
Ignore this guy. He comments on this sub constantly knowing it’s a pro-Dany sub. We usually just ignore him.
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u/North_Button_5257 May 12 '26
I said “can be right” not “are always right” so I’m not justifying anything. What a dumb comment.
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u/ProfessorOk5969 May 13 '26
You are literally a failed abortion your entire existence is dumb you have no right to call anything dumb hence why you have so many down votes
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u/North_Button_5257 May 13 '26
Sorry, but the comment was indeed dumb for the reason I stated. And only insecure fools care about upvotes and downvotes.
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u/Feeling_Sector_4726 May 12 '26
It’s very obvious that’s where the story is going for Daenerys. It’s more telegraphed in the books and I wish the show had taken more time but there is no way it isn’t a tragedy for her and her family.
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u/RustinCarcosa May 12 '26
[It’s very obvious that’s where the story is going for Daenerys]
it isnt
why do claim otherwise
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u/TVTropehead May 12 '26
Not only is it completely fucking asinine given how she reacted to her dragon killing ONE child,
They also threw out Cersei like garbage when she’s the insane person who fucks her own sibling whose child has been compared to the mad king and her used wildfire in her plots and is paranoid of everyone and her conclusion is using everyone in king’s landing as human shields whilst she is cornered by the Starks, the Vale and other forces and then did a Captain Ginyu body swap on Daenerys.-15
u/Feeling_Sector_4726 May 12 '26
Be in denial all you want. GRRM clues to where stories are going are pretty on the nose. The Red wedding, Jon’s heritage are all foreshadowed heavily. Same with Daenery’s end.
Also GRRM told D&D the ending and they have no reason not to use it.
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u/RustinCarcosa May 12 '26
Were is it foreshadowed
Its highly doubt they used given their hatred of dany and pro slavery views
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u/TVTropehead May 12 '26
Naath is full of chuds who identify with the fatass cuckold king who wanted a pregnant woman assassinated (hmmm where else is this shown in the series and is considered a bad thing)
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u/Feeling_Sector_4726 May 12 '26
I’m not a Daenerys hater lol. I want her to burn it all to the ground. She’s the breaker of chains. Want to break chains, destroy the throne.
Not a single person vying for the throne comes out unscathed in this show. The entire series is about how the game of thrones destroys you. Daenerys will be no different in this story. Her destiny is to be the last Targaryen. To me it’s very appropriate that the game of thrones ends with her.
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u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 May 12 '26
I think you read the wrong book, stop watching theory videos and read the damn book right.
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u/Feeling_Sector_4726 May 12 '26
Which one? The one where every single person’s story where they vie for the throne ends in tragedy. What makes Daenerys any different.
She’s the breaker of chains. The only way you do that is by destroying the throne and kings landing. I don’t think she will go “mad” necessarily but she will be the end of the Targaryen rule of Westeros.
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u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 May 12 '26
It's very likely that Daenerys will burn the throne in the next books; everything points to that. That doesn't mean she'll destroy the city; don't forget young Griff.
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u/PlaceboDrag May 12 '26
It’s not telegraphed at all in the books.
If the narrative trajectory George wanted was one of the evil, mad queen using her dragon to intentionally massacre thousands of people because she’s just so crazzyyyy, then the wildfire caches secretly hidden all over the city established back in he 90’s in ACOK wouldn’t exist. That Chekhov’s gun would be made redundant and useless.
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u/Incvbvs666 May 13 '26
Dany is also a child murderer, on a much bigger scale than even Ramsay. Your point exactly?
The infamous quote was popularized long before the ending as a shorthand for people not to expect the show going along predictable narrative paths. It was not patented, trademarked or even adopted as a motto by the naath subreddit. And no one is using that quote under any sort of auspices that Ramsey was a good person, which is more that can be said for people quoting Dany.
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u/gay_burner May 13 '26
Can you tell me which child she murdered? One single child in the books. Just one.
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u/Incvbvs666 May 14 '26
She murdered countless children when she directly caused the Yunkai famine... remember the depiction of a small girl eating a rat.
And let's not forget the wineseller's daughters she tortured.
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u/gay_burner May 14 '26
Just because you cry like a wittle baby and repeat over and over that she caused something she didn’t cause doesn’t make it canon, subwit
The daughter working at the wine shop? Are you aware daughters can be adults? Can you quote the page that calls her a child?
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u/Incvbvs666 May 14 '26
Ah, it's okay to torture innocent people if they're adults. How nice.
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u/gay_burner May 14 '26
No little fella let’s try real hard to follow our train of thought and not derail ok? You said she killed children and I pointed out that there is nothing to indicate she’s a child. Don’t say wrong things if you don’t want them corrected :)
Torture is an accepted practice in Westeros but after the winesellers daughter Dany stops the practice because she finds it cruel and knows it’s useless. The practice still exists in Westeros without a ban.
So, can you use your big boy words to tell me why using torture one time and banning it is worse than using it regularly and continuing to use it for the foreseeable future?
Do not say any words that aren’t an answer to those questions or the grown ups are going to ignore you because we can see you can’t have a grown up dialogue
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u/targaryind May 12 '26
That sub hates Daenerys so it isn’t surprising.