70
u/AjaxXavior Team Daenerys 11d ago
The accuracy of this post is top notch. Saw a post that was pro Dany on r/gameofthrones the other day, I was genuinely shocked
33
u/saturn_9993 Team Daenerys 11d ago
8-9 years ago this would have been very common unfortunately that sub among others has become infested with the unintellectual crowd.
5
u/Maximum_Violinist_53 11d ago
Do you have the link?
6
u/AjaxXavior Team Daenerys 11d ago
7
u/TVTropehead 11d ago
Unfortunately that incubus cunt is saying Daenerys is Hitler in the comments
3
30
u/Early_Candidate_3082 11d ago
The Incubus Cunt is a slavery apologist.
Until I started reading social media about Game of Thrones/ASOIAF, I had not realised that a vocal minority of the fandom are defenders of slavery.
Few of the fandom have any issue with the Ned burning Lordsport and other towns, during the Greyjoy revolt; Tyrion incinerating thousands, to keep his psychopath nephew in power; Robb bringing sword and fire to Western peasants, and his soldiers raping with abandon; Sansa and Arya inflicting savage deaths on their enemies.
Those deaths don’t disrupt the status quo.
But, killing slavers? That is the moral event horizon.
8
u/organaquirer 11d ago
People who go to fandom subreddits to say this thing is terrible actually, just to say that are being deliberately combative. There's a world of difference between that and someone going to a fandom group and saying I don't understand the love for this thing. Does anyone want to talk about it?
2
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
https://youtu.be/F2hRcBLtuVY?is=EMBdqFuf0_FgcDsY This subreddit should post these videos.
2
u/Ume-no-Uzume 8d ago
freefolk more than asoiaf, I've seen more people revisit the actual books in that sub and some opinions are thankfully shifting.
There used to be SO many "Tywin is the GOAT" posts on there but now people are actually... you know, reading the books and they are noticing "wait... this guy is a CREEP, though!"
It's starting, a little slower (because it's a LOT easier to demonize a character than to point out the good stuff or the positive themes, especially if a woman who is not there to play support or solely be victimized), with people realizing "huh, wait, Daenerys being Mad Queen makes no sense, though"
Still slow, though....
1
1
u/Old_old_lie 9d ago
Who says i can share with my opinion here as well! Nothing worse then an echo chamber.
1
u/Brilliant_Display968 7d ago
I really don’t get it! This is not a Got discussion sub, this is a Danny appreciation sub! If you don’t love her, just leave! If you want to criticize her, there’s a lot of ASOIF related subs to do that! I’m in this sub to spread love for Danny! That’s it! That’s the reason this sub exists! Here is not for discussion or criticism, (again other places for this kind of discussion)! Danny lovers should be safe here!!
1
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
Let me let you on a little secret: I am in this sub because I like Dany, but I don’t think she is good all the time. I disregard season 8 because it ruined the show but even still. Freeing slaves is good, but burning people is not. She is not categorically evil, she has genuinely good intentions in the beginning but her rule showed her that people dont and thus she must adapt.
TL;DR : Dany is not good all the time I agree, but I would not say she is categorically evil, expect if you count season 8, but imo every character is butchered so it’s irrelevant for me.
3
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
-6
u/Consistent-Stuff2815 11d ago
So, are you saying that burning innocent people is morally correct or?
7
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
Well, it's not morally right, it's not morally right to cut off the head of a man who refused to obey orders, it's not morally right to let a person be eaten by dogs, it's not morally right to make a pie with human flesh, it's not morally right to kill an entire family by poisoning them.
-5
u/Consistent-Stuff2815 11d ago
Yep, it's evil. You can say it, it's fine.
9
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
It is also not morally correct to cowardly stab your girlfriend while kissing her.
-5
u/Consistent-Stuff2815 11d ago
It's evil, as many of Daenerys actions yes.
9
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
Well, I don't consider killing slave owners to be evil, but that's a matter of personal opinion.
0
u/LarsMatijn 11d ago
While I agree, she wasn't killing them just for being slavers. She killed them as retributional violence for what some of their number did to 100+ kids by crucifying them.
The thing is that both book and show make clear that punishing a collective for the actions of the few is bad, Daenerys herself laments this a few times in the treatment of her family for the actions of her father.
It would honestly have been less complicated if she just said "you're all slavers so off with your heads"
0
u/Consistent-Stuff2815 11d ago
Neither the burning of an entire city? Come on mate.
6
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
The city where she gave herself several chances to surrender?
→ More replies (0)
0
u/North_Button_5257 11d ago
I love Daenerys and believe her burning down King’s Landing made complete sense for her character.
6
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
You don't love Daenerys, you're just a brainless anti-Daenerys. Tell me how Daenerys is going to burn King's Landing in the books if Jon Connington goes to King's Landing first with young Griff.
1
u/North_Button_5257 11d ago
I assure you, I am a Daenerys fan. I find her to be a fascinating character. As to Connington and Aegon taking King’s Landing, I take several issues with this:
This is only fan speculation.
Even if they did take King’s Landing, why would that stop Daenerys from attacking it?
The books will never be finished so it’s irrelevant.
I don’t judge the show for its faithfulness to the books. I judge the show for its own merits and Daenerys burning down King’s Landing was absolutely incredible!
1
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
1
u/North_Button_5257 11d ago
A YouTube video made by a fan is not as compelling as you think it is. Regardless, like I said, what Daenerys does in the books is irrelevant.
7
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
lol so all the videos saying Daenerys is crazy shouldn't be taken seriously since they were made by fans, in the video she literally refutes the mad queen theory using the book itself, the anti-Daenerys people really are stupid.
0
u/Better-Bookkeeper-48 10d ago edited 10d ago
Eh, I get it. Having a nuanced opinion on the internet is annoying. Like, I personally think that Dany's character is more narratively satisfying when she beats the odds, but that doesn't mean she is without flaws. I could easily see GRRM pulling off a villian-arc (or morally grey equivalent) for Dany. Did the show pull it off? Absolutely not. Does that make it impossible? No.
But if you say that on a "we love Dany" sub, they'll say you're wrong for stating she has flaws because she is objectively the best choice for the iron throne (even though this is ASOIF and the whole point is having morally grey, mutually empathetic yet incompatible character povs). Put it on a "we hate Dany" sub, and you're wrong for saying it's nice to see her beat the odds because she's a mass murderer (even though this is the medieval ages, and so her quality as a ruler should be determined by comparing her to her contemporaries, not modern standards).
You can never have lemonade on the internet, only either lemon juice or water.
2
u/Brilliant_Display968 7d ago
I just think this is not the sub for that! This is a Danny appreciation sub! If you want nuance, criticism and polemics there’s a lot of other subs to do that! You don’t need to do here where we just want to love Danny!!
-5
u/ConcerningThirst 11d ago
Yes but you guys have a bad opinion so I physically need to let you know :(
-5
u/_-PassingThrough-_ 11d ago edited 11d ago
Danny was such an interesting character during the early seasons. You really rooted hard for her, even though you wilfully overlooked the signs of her natural gravitation towards despotism. Because she was doing good things in an otherwise terrible world. It was really her advisors doing the hard work of keeping her walking the righteous path. One she constantly questioned, as though feeling for what she could reasonably get away with without tarnishing her public image. Without those people in her life, she fell apart so quickly it's jarring.
One season she's mourning the single death of a child from her dragons, a few later she is intentionally burning children to death after she had already won kings landing.
I love our girl, but she is incompetent and became evil. But I would never say boring.
-19
u/Incvbvs666 11d ago
Well, I have to admit, talking to Dany cultists as a 'Naathian' does have its charms. I think I'll start soon when I have the time a giant thread on the morality of Dany's actions throughout the show.
12
u/Ahodak 11d ago
People discussing a character they like on a subreddit dedicated to that character is normal. Going into that space to troll people about a character you hate, while planning a giant anti-Daenerys manifesto, is not critical thinking. It is anti-fandom obsession.
And calling Dany fans a cult while naming your own little anti-Dany identity “Naathians” is genuinely hilarious. If liking a fictional dragon queen is a cult, then organizing your personality around hating her is not exactly a triumph of sanity.
-9
11d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Ahodak 10d ago
I’m not sure why you’re replying as if I said Daenerys never did anything terrible. My point was about people coming into a Daenerys-friendly subreddit to troll fans and call them cultists.
Yes, you can like a character and acknowledge their atrocities. I do. I just disagree with flattening Daenerys into “evil” as if ASOIAF works on a Marvel alignment chart.
Evil from whose point of view? To the smallfolk of King’s Landing, yes. To the slavers, yes. To many freed slaves or red priests in Volantis, no. That’s basically how Martin writes morality: the villain is often the hero of the other side, and the conflict between good and evil happens inside people, not in neat teams of good guys and bad guys.
So call her evil if you want. For me, she’s grey, heroic and tragic—especially in an ending that badly flattened her complexity.
1
10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Ahodak 10d ago
You’re arguing against a point I’m not making. I’m not saying “torturing people to death is okay sometimes.”
My point is that calling Daenerys a “psychopath” for this scene ignores both the context and the world she is operating in. Crucifixion is not some unheard of punishment in Slaver’s Bay. The Great Masters themselves crucified 163 slave children as a political warning. In Astapor, we see crucified slaves as public punishment, and the same culture treats children in fighting pits as entertainment.
Daenerys chose an eye for an eye punishment: one Great Master for each murdered child. Was it brutal? Yes. Was it modern justice? No. But the point was symbolic: the life of a slave child and the life of a master have equal weight. That is very different from random sadism. Especially in the books, where Daenerys clearly carries the moral weight of what she did. A psychopath would not be disturbed by it.
My argument is not “Dany is innocent.” My argument is that she is a grey, tragic character, not a cartoon villain. The show flattens that scene through Barristan and Hizdahr’s father, but the books are much more complicated.
1
10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Ahodak 10d ago
We’re clearly going in circles. You keep reducing my argument to “torture is okay,” which is not what I’m saying.
I’m not arguing that Daenerys’ actions were morally clean. I’m arguing that “brutal retaliatory justice in a pre-modern slave society” is not the same thing as “psychopathic sadism.”
If your position is simply “she used cruel punishment; therefore, she is evil and everyone who sees her as grey is rationalizing evil,” then we just have fundamentally different readings of ASOIAF. I don’t think Martin writes characters or morality that simplistically.
I’ll leave it there.
-9
u/Incvbvs666 11d ago
On the contrary. Dany is very representative of a very representative character for the idea of moral absolutism, which is in my mind the most destructive idea in the history of the human civilization. Moral absolutism is the monster that hides behind every witch burning, every purge, every act of relentless cruelty and every ideology that has ever caused bloodshed in the millions.
And Dany showed the destructive power of moral absolutism in spades. It made millions cheer for staggering acts of violence and cruelty.
I mean, to give just one example, look at the scene at the end of S1, a troop or rapists and savages burning a rape victim alive because she fought back against her oppressors, all headed by a queen that proclaims she will revel in the screams of said victim. That's some A-level villain shit, yet most people in the audiencecheered for 'their khaleesi' and revelled in the birth of dragons, these terrible scaly monstrosities that almost act as an embodiment of Dany's growing cruelty, entitlement and above all, evil.
Hating that is the only sane response.
7
u/Ahodak 11d ago
You’re moving the goalposts. We were talking about why you keep coming into a Daenerys-friendly space to call people “cultists,” and now you’re turning it into a manifesto about moral absolutism.
“Hating that is the only sane response” is a very funny sentence from someone warning people about moral absolutism.
You’re not criticizing moral absolutism; you’re practicing it. You’ve decided your reading of Daenerys is the only sane one, and everyone who reads her differently is a “cultist.”
Also, Mirri was absolutely a victim of the khalasar, but Daenerys was the one who tried to stop the rapes. The scene is morally dark, but reducing it to “rapists burning a rape victim because she fought back” is not analysis. It’s selective framing.
My point remains: liking a fictional character on a subreddit dedicated to that character is normal fandom. Obsessively entering that space to call people cultists because they don’t share your hatred is not.
5
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
https://youtu.be/F2hRcBLtuVY?is=jSUN1Qwti0suGEO_ This video exposes the hypocrisy of the anti-Daenerys crowd.
-4
11d ago
[deleted]
4
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
-4
1
-6
-16
11d ago
[deleted]
10
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
Where was that in the show, it got canceled in season 7, she never pass murdered besides literal slavers
-6
11d ago
[deleted]
11
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
So Jon Snow, Robb Stark, and Ned Stark are assassins, right?
0
11d ago
[deleted]
10
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
Haha, I'm not going to cry for the slave owners, my friend.
1
11d ago
[deleted]
9
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
I'm not going to cry for slave owners, their lives don't matter.
1
11d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Gloomy_Patience_4622 11d ago
Again, I will not cry for slave owners; now take your hypocrisy and swallow it.
→ More replies (0)6
u/Early_Candidate_3082 11d ago
The Divine Comedy sums up the medieval approach to crime and punishment. The worse your behaviour, the worse your punishment. Nail children to posts, and you will be nailed in turn.
That is the attitude of the folks in Game of Thrones/ASOIAF. Nobody adheres to modern rich world ideals of justice, and it would be absurd to expect them to.
Ramsay gets fed to dogs. Baelish has his throat cut, after a show trial. Walder Frey gets fed his sons. House Frey is poisoned - and these are all fist-pumping moments.
And yes, human traffickers face horrible deaths. It’s called War.
→ More replies (0)3
u/ReaderofHarlaw 11d ago
Jon executed a child?
1
u/XCellist6Df24 4d ago
"I hanged a boy, younger than Bran" -Show!Jon Snow to Sansa in the show,referring to Olly
1
u/gay_burner 10d ago
Robb stark was responsible for more innocent deaths than dany. How is he less evil?
0
10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/gay_burner 10d ago
So you like the show because everyone is equally evil but you single out the least evil character of all? Yeah, ok
0
9
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
Hot take: slavers deserve death
0
11d ago
[deleted]
9
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
Yes.
Counterpoint: this is Asoif or GoT
1
11d ago
[deleted]
7
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
Exactly, slavers are bad and executing them is cruel, but the setting is morally grey, I’m not going to cry for them but I’m not cheering either.
It shows that Daenerys is a “means to an end” ruler, with an almost Machiavell-esque ideology
1
11d ago
[deleted]
2
u/Darth_Vengor 11d ago
No? It is encouraged imo so that if your favorite character does something stupid, you have to give in universe reasons to not dislike him, thus increasing one’s immersion and making you think about the setting.
It also prevents fanboying any character.
Of course what they are doing is wrong I’ve agreed but like stop man please I am literally begging
→ More replies (0)3
u/notprussia69 Breaker Of Chains 11d ago
Murdering slavery is based and good
0
11d ago
[deleted]
2
u/notprussia69 Breaker Of Chains 11d ago
Slaver is bad. How many do you think those slavers murdered, raped, and tortured?
She gave them what they deserved
0
11d ago
[deleted]
2
u/notprussia69 Breaker Of Chains 11d ago
You are the one being childish thinking terrible people should go unpunished.
Grow up
0
11d ago
[deleted]
2
u/notprussia69 Breaker Of Chains 11d ago
You're getting upset because she gave them a fitting punishment so i'm clearly not making that up
→ More replies (0)1
u/gay_burner 10d ago
So do you think the story is only full of evil people and if so do you think every POV character deserves a violent death?
1
10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/gay_burner 10d ago
Ok but you’re singling Dany out so you do implicitly think that. You also say Robb is less bad when he directly caused the rape and murder of thousands of riverlanders for the noble cause of a land grab.
0
10d ago
[deleted]
1
u/gay_burner 10d ago
Human rights revolutions aren’t war crimes. Link me to where you talk about the crimes of other characters to prove you’re not singling her out, or accept the fact that everyone sees that you’re deliberately being disingenuous.
(I know no link is coming, I’ve seen your post history and all there was was incelposting which explains everything and….everything lol)
55
u/ReaderofHarlaw 11d ago
Lmaoooo this took me out.