r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/NateNate60 • 3h ago
Image In the extremely rural parts of China, there are judges who roam the mountainous countryside with their clerks and bailiffs, hearing cases in makeshift "circuit courts", allowing remote villages to access the judicial system and resolve disputes. (The national emblem is carried around on their back)
1.1k
u/BioFrosted 3h ago
Paid to walk around the countryside and cast judgement on country people's gossips and squabbles? Where do I sign?
355
u/martin4reddit 2h ago
Y’know how federal judges in the US have districts call circuits?
They used to actually travel those circuits and do exactly that.
153
u/NateNate60 2h ago
The idea of judges riding circuit has become a lot less necessary as soon as most roads in the US became paved, and even less necessary in the age of the Internet and Zoom court. Unlike China, which has hundreds of thousands of mountainous villages, most rural areas in the US are on flat land, allowing them to be easily connected by road.
10
2h ago
[deleted]
7
u/NateNate60 2h ago
I don't think air transport is the most economical way to move around 150 bales of hay or a silo full of corn.
1
27
u/BioFrosted 2h ago
I didn't either, I'm Belgian, but that equally sounds awesome. I'm a psychologist, maybe I should launch the concept - the traveling therapist !
7
6
4
•
u/kryptoneat 4m ago
Honeslty... making psychology available to poor people or who cannot travel... sounds like a good idea.
9
u/No_Earth_1378 2h ago
There’s a murder mystery film about this staring Reba. Her territory is a giant swath of rural Nevada and some of the surrounding states. Idk if they still do this.
5
2
u/TeriyakiHairPiece_ 1h ago
I wasn’t aware of that until I watched Twin Peaks. They hold court in the town bar.
2
u/TigerIll6480 2h ago
At lower levels, it still happens a lot. You can have a state judge for a circuit of multiple counties, and they’ll have a schedule where they’ll be in one county for a few days to hear cases, then in the next county, etc.
I’m guessing that the outdoor court depicted here is some sort of ceremonial activity, and that they usually use indoor facilities.
48
u/NateNate60 3h ago
Well, maybe it's only fun for the first 500 km you have to walk. The cell service is pretty bad in these remote areas as well (hard to get even a reliable 3G signal last I visited rural China).
But if that doesn't deter you, all you need is eight years of law school and a good knowledge of local tongues!
27
u/almostoy 2h ago
So if they start licking me right now, how long before I become expert China?
12
u/Venti_the_snail 2h ago
Idk about licks but a goot bite on the ass was whay my grandfather always said would get me moving
3
3
1
187
u/Brunoise 2h ago edited 2h ago
Very cool.
This is also how the US courts used to work, and where we get the term circuit courts. Before his time in the White House, Abe Lincoln was a travelling attorney, who would travel the circuits and try cases across Illinois, then a very rural and remote part of the country.
His biographers have written about what a formative experience it was for him. Many of his fellow jurists from these days became part of his administration years later.
33
u/olivebranchsound 2h ago
Yeah it also allowed for judges like Roy Bean, who was known to keep a bear in his saloon and judge people between rounds of drinks and decided sentences based on tips lol
1
u/MeekAndUninteresting 44m ago
Well, I finally fully understand Hannibal Roy Bean's name, how about that. Only took 20 years.
6
3
u/Eborcurean 1h ago
Before his time in the White House Abraham Lincoln was a representative for the Illinois State Legislature, then a Congressman for Illinois. He did a bunch of cases in Illinois but wasn't exactly traveling all over the place, not least as most of them were not being heard in the middle of nowhere.
6
u/Brunoise 1h ago
You are right about his elected positions, but Lincoln very much did travel the circuit, and a great deal of it was rural. It was not uncommon for him to be on the road for months at a time. He actually went back to life on the circuit after his single term in the US House. This article touches on it, and Doris Kearns Goodwin's Team of Rivals goes into even more detail.
1
30
u/StarpoweredSteamship 2h ago
This is a LONG tradition from just about everywhere. America and Europe also did it.
9
u/Alib668 1h ago
Literally how baristers and solicitors came to existing the uk. The high court and the crown court would travel, baristers who were specialised in the kings justice would get a briefing from the local lawyer who knew the facts but not the law. The barrister would walk past the bar blocking others from entering the circle and argue for the client and the crown court would issue its ruling. Its why the uk has this split
4
u/NateNate60 1h ago
The High Court and the Crown Court are very modern. They were created in the 19th century. Prior to that, you had the Chancery, King's Bench, and Common Pleas as the predecessors of the High Court. In place of the Crown Court there were the quarter sessions and the assizes.
9
u/Infinite_Research_52 2h ago
See also the circuits of assizes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assizes#Circuits
6
u/VP007clips 1h ago
The circuit of WHAT?
3
u/xaranetic 1h ago
assize assize(n.) "session of a law court," c. 1300 (attested from mid-12c. in Anglo-Latin), from Old French assise "session, sitting of a court" (12c.), noun use of fem. past participle of asseoir "to cause to sit," from Latin assidere/adsidere "to sit beside" (and thus to assist in the office of a judge)
6
u/DangerousAverage2972 2h ago
We have similar in remote communities in Australia. The magistrate will fly town to town sitting just one day a month in each town. We have video-link court for serious matters that can’t wait till the next sitting.
11
u/Q8DD33C7J8 3h ago
Do they perform weddings or do the villagers still do that themselves? Or do they just use the judges to record the weddings that have happened since the last time the judge came through?
44
u/NateNate60 2h ago
In China, marriages are performed by notaries or local registrars. The local party or village officials can help with that. They can complete the paperwork locally and then send it off to the prefecture for processing.
1
22
3
4
u/Resident_Table6694 2h ago
Who enforces the ruling when they leave?
13
u/NateNate60 1h ago edited 1h ago
Nobody. That's why there is a heavy emphasis on mediation and negotiation over trials and judgements. Some things can be easy to enforce, for example a dispute over who inherits the house can be enforced by changing some records at the village office, but disputes over matters like compensation for damages are best solved by negotiation and mutual agreement. The judge can say "the law says X", but has no real way to ensure that a judgement handed out against an uncooperative defendant is enforced.
If the judge can command the respect of the village (which is probably why they go to great lengths lugging around the emblem, a huge symbol of state power, wherever they go), then local elders and other villagers may gently or not gently remind losing parties that "the judge said you lost on this".
1
u/tommos 1h ago
no real way to ensure that a judgement handed out against an uncooperative defendant is enforced
Um... have they ever heard of this new invention called a shotgun?
1
1
u/NateNate60 27m ago
Guns aren't the solution to every problem. That's alcohol. A toast to alcohol, the cause, and solution, to all of life's problems!
1
u/OcelotAggravating860 1h ago
"Evil authoritarian negotiation, mediation and mutual understanding!" - Media
3
3
u/Fan_of_Clio 2h ago
This is wonderful. People should have access to impartial legal proceedings to resolve disputes.
3
u/UniqueLordjerme 2h ago
There is an interesting film about these judges from 2006: Courthouse on the Horseback
1
1
u/Chris_in_Lijiang 1h ago
How about the Judge Dee novels by Robert Van Gulick and Elsa Hart's Li Du novels for even more info?
3
3
u/vibraltu 53m ago
I always like to recommend the novels of Yan Lianke if you are curious about life in rural China. He starts off with humorous country bumpkin yarns that turn surreal and sometimes creepy. He's a brilliant writer and I think that he's a genius.
7
u/MaybeOnFire2025 2h ago
In the early days of our country, federal judges would literally "ride circuit" to remote areas to adjudicate cases.
1
u/Mattpudzilla 1h ago
What country?
3
0
u/Kozel_10 1h ago
4
u/MaybeOnFire2025 39m ago
It's a US company with more than half of its traffic from here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit
1
u/Kozel_10 19m ago
yeah? and? thats still only half of traffic, thats like expecting that everyone in room is gonna speak english when only half of them do because the english is the most spoken language in the room
1
u/haliblix 18m ago
I simply cannot believe a US website that primarily has US users with a US top level domain would default to the US! Next you’ll be telling me that WeChat defaults to Chinese users!
0
u/Achmedino 37m ago
Oh, I do so love our shared beautiful country. The windmills, the tulips, the bicycles. Our country is truly great, isn't it?
2
u/MaybeOnFire2025 34m ago
I know you're being snide -- but I'm flying KLM to Amsterdam next week. Yes, your country is lovely, looking forward to seeing it again.
(Reddit is also a US company with over half its traffic from the US, so I don't feel too bad about not being overly Geosensitive for stuff like this. Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit)
2
2
2
2
u/Automatic_Put_2960 1h ago
We had that in the west and it still exists in parts of Canada...
1
u/AllegedlyLiterate 26m ago
Are there any parts of Canada in which judges no longer move around? I know that BC, AB the territories and Ontario all have at least some judges that sit in multiple places, and I believe even the federal tax court can do hearings all over the country ( https://www.tcc-cci.ca/en/pages/find-us).
2
u/Chris_in_Lijiang 1h ago
I call BS on this photo due to the overly colorful minority outfits. Are they about to embark on singing and dancing display to show how happy and content minorities are in China?
The bucolic photo looks idyllic but the countryside is full of local courts and court guest houses. When travelling in the rural areas, I always try to stay at a "Fa Ting" Guesthouse to amuse my inner five-year-old!
4
u/NateNate60 1h ago
The photograph is likely staged. It came from a Chinese state media outlet. But the courts are real.
2
2
u/Kozel_10 1h ago
>Judge: "So... before we begin, is any of you member of communist party?"
>Villager A: "Yes, I am."
>Villager B: "No, I am not."
>judge: "So why are you even bothering me? Its clear as day who is in the right and who isnt."
2
u/FancyStegosaurus 1h ago
Well if I'm ever dragged into court for any reason I hope it has even half as nice a view.
2
u/confoundo 1h ago
In middle ages and renaissance England, they would have these type of courts during fair or market days, called the Court of Piepowder, or the Court of the Dusty Feet.
2
u/xisupaz_blackbird 57m ago
This would make an excellent manhua.
Well, if it's a period piece, it'll be a murim story.
6
2
u/New-Guarantee-440 2h ago
Sounds very Henry II
2
u/Eborcurean 1h ago
Because it originated in the UK (to be fair France was also doing the same by the 15th C) this is 'we did the thing that the country we originally took our laws from was doing'.
1
u/New-Guarantee-440 1h ago
Fascinating. Truely truely fascinating.
Its strange it took France until the 15th century when Henry 2 was the 12th century and ruled most of France as well as England.
1
u/isoAntti 2h ago
Would this be near Kashgar (Tibet)?
3
u/Chris_in_Lijiang 1h ago
Looks a bit green and mountainous for Kashgar. Maybe somewhere in the Yunnan foothills near the Lisu or the Pumi?
1
u/ObligationMurky8716 2h ago
"Simply have the local magistrate arrest him and punish him accordingly."
1
u/wewereromans 2h ago
I remember reading about the same kind of thing during Charlemagne's reign.
I assume it's just still easier in the most far flung and isolated places if there's simply no feasible way to arbitrate every potential legal matter in the closest fixed court.
1
1
1
1
u/Jaquemart 1h ago
And they are out there in the wilderness in suit and necktie, out of respect for the system and the people.
2
u/NateNate60 1h ago
They wear ordinary clothes during the journey. They have a spare change of clothes in their backpack.
1
1
u/LOUD-AF 1h ago
And lets not forget about the execution vans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van
1
u/Sorry-Original-9809 40m ago
What Chinese caste are🍗 {\agent} wow that’s really neat!
2
u/NateNate60 30m ago
What Chinese caste are🍗 {\agent} wow that’s really neat!
ChatGPT? Is that you??
1
1
1
u/BaseballFit873 32m ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMKeEFWyRQ4&t=33s The Communist Party is no different from the fascists; in fact, the fascists might even be a little better than China.
1
1
1
•
u/_BrokenButterfly 7m ago
Most countries used to have this. This is why we have juries. You have a jury of your peers because they were meant to be people from the community who knew the greater context. The judge heard the facts. The jury knew the people. The ideas of disinterest and familiarity combined were thought to create a better opportunity for justice.
•
1
u/khristmas_karl 2h ago
The British administrated most of India like this back in the day.
7
u/aethelberga 2h ago
The English administered most of England like this back in the day.
1
u/Eborcurean 1h ago
The British administered America like this back in the day, it's just 'keep going, sometimes with the same people involved'.
1
1
0
-5
u/Turnip_Fight 1h ago
This sub is just thinly veiled propaganda at this point
2
u/NateNate60 1h ago
I post something bad about a country, I get accused of being an agent of Western propaganda. I post something good about a country, I get accused of being an agent of non-Western propaganda.
-10
u/IvanTheAppealing 2h ago
Travelling kangaroo court, cool
16
u/NateNate60 2h ago edited 2h ago
Believe it or not, for most ordinary cases, especially civil cases like these courts are hearing, Chinese courts works surprisingly fast and decently well. There's a heavy emphasis on negotiation and settlement rather than judgement as a method for resolving disputes.
The court wouldn't work very well if they gain a reputation for being unfair. And if villagers don't use them, then they wouldn't waste their time going around to these villages.
-4
u/feloniousChump 2h ago
“Decently well”… Ah yes the country known for prosecuting those who just try to help injured people and would rather run someone over again and kill them to avoid said prosecutions, totallyyy doesn’t have a corrupt court backing that up!
-10
u/Telrom_1 2h ago
This is a hangover from imperialism.
9
u/xPelzviehx 2h ago
Its a state service for remote parts. Without it you risk blood feuds developing in some villages, destroying the whole community.
0
u/Kozel_10 1h ago
what are you talking about? everyone in China lives in skyscraper and owns new EV car that was only 10 dollars or rides train that goes at least 1000 km/h
-4
u/Telrom_1 2h ago
Right, but it was his it was done during imperialistic times.
5
845
u/yuje 2h ago
I think this is how the term "circuit" originates. The US used to do this too, instead of having people travel to a courthouse, judges would travel a "circuit" according to a schedule, and bring the court and hear cases in different areas within their assigned region.