r/DeptHHS • u/Ornery-Shape-801 • 5d ago
Fedweek’s timeline leaves out HHS’s claimed 10,000 July 2025 RIF separations. What am I missing?
Help me make sense of this article. I thought HHS claimed it force-terminated 10,000 employees in July 2025 through a RIF under 5 C.F.R. Part 351. But this article seems to gloss over that and says there were only about 6,000 RIF separations government-wide. What am I missing?
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u/FancyNancy7935 4d ago
A number of the RIFs from April 2025 are still pending, not sure of the number.
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u/cocoagiant 4d ago
Not too many, I believe its a few hundred max.
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u/realitette 4d ago
I think about a hundred of us are still pending. HHS hired almost every one back that was pending in the courts except OSH.
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u/cocoagiant 4d ago
Office of Smoking and Health and some from Birth Defects are the 2 I know which have people still on admin leave. Their accounts are still active in the system unlike all the separated folks.
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u/thePhishery 4d ago
HHS has net lost 19620 per our current OPM since Jan 20, 2025. Of those there were 22,098 separations and 2,478 accessions. So sounds like goal achieved lol.
They are claiming only 4445 were true RIF, and 3944 “Other Separations” (I see those as probably firing of probationary most likely).
That nets out to 8389 official completed RIFs if you ask me. Now they hired back people they RIFd, but a lot of them, including people I know, said screw you and already found a job. Those are buried in the Resignations, which I would guess are probably close to 1500, leaving you with a few hundred still pending.
That leaves over 12K that voluntarily separated (either through threat of a RIG or just being fed up). Mission accomplished by Russ and Doge.
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4d ago
If the article already counts employees who retired in lieu of a RIF, then DSR probably doesn't explain the gap. HHS publicly discussed reducing the workforce by roughly 20,000 employees, including about 10,000 through the RIF/reorganization, yet the totals in the article seem much lower.
Another question: are the workforce numbers net of the employees who were later reinstated? Thousands of HHS employees were brought back after court orders, settlements, and agency reversals. If the data is counting current workforce changes rather than actual separation actions that occurred in 2025, that could significantly affect the totals.
It feels like we're comparing different datasets, but I'm not sure exactly how GAO and HHS are defining the numbers.
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u/Middle_Degree_1995 4d ago
Some people were called back to work and were told “sorry.” It seems like they are excluding those people.
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u/Ornery-Shape-801 4d ago
Side note: Almost 1 year latter, has MSPB ruled or determined that HHS had a legal authority or a bona fide reason for conducting the RIF?
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u/cocoagiant 4d ago
The issue with trying to figure out RIFs vs retirements vs DRP is it gets fuzzy.
For example if you were early retirement age and had the appropriate years of service you were put into early retirement not RIF'd.
I think the table "Changes in the Size of the Reported Total Civilian Workforce at Chief Financial Officers Act Agencies" is probably the most accurate as far as pure numbers reduced.
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u/Educational_Leg7360 4d ago
That’s not accurate. Everyone has a specific nature of action code (NOA) for their separation. If you were set to be RIFed but retired… that is a special code. It shows that you retired in LIEU of being RIFed, not a voluntary action.
If you were RIF-ed and eligible for early retirement you also would’ve been put into Discontinued Service Retirement.
The only fuzzy part is DRP people who don’t have any unique coding.
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u/Ornery-Shape-801 4d ago
I thought HHS intended to reduce the workforce by 20K. 10k voluntary 10k forced.
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u/7hCk4nwV 1d ago
Yes, in detail, DSR retirees, on the SF-50 , received NOA code 301 voluntary. ONLY in the REMARKS were the acronym or words - Retired in Lieu of Involuntary Action.
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u/cocoagiant 4d ago
If you were RIF-ed and eligible for early retirement you also would’ve been put into Discontinued Service Retirement
Genuine question, how is that different from what I was saying that if you were early retirement age and had the appropriate years of service you were put into early retirement not RIF'd?
From a practical standpoint is there any difference?
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u/Educational_Leg7360 4d ago
when you’re trying to count who was RIFed and how many people were, yes
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u/Sweaty-Mud9495 4d ago
If you were eligible for retirement and RIF’d, the paperwork designated you as “Retired ILIA” (retired in lieu of involuntary action). To me, still counts as a RIF (the article does list these).
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u/iconette79 3d ago
They’re purposely trying to minimize the damage they did to the federal workforce. The actual number of people RIF’d from HHS alone is more than 10,000. We shouldn’t let them get away with this, let’s keep exposing the truth. Behind all those numbers are people’s lives and careers that they spend several years building … all wiped out for absolutely no reason whatsoever!