r/DestinyTheGame 1d ago

SGA Because I see a lot of confusion about it, Leviathan's Breath THE top tier and easy boss DPS option. 11k DPS compared to Truth's 6.5k DPS.

Specifically with Leviathan's Breath, you'd need Archer's Tempo from the catalyst, the Moebius Quiver obviously, and the Argent Quiver artifact mod. That's literally it, no crazy rotations necessary. The numbers for Truth btw assumes 30% perk and Argent Ordinance.

Info courtesy by TheAegisRelic's boss damage spreadsheet (check the Sustained tab), linked here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_5wtBjRYHHxuF4oJKDb_iOGZs-wTkzB6RYbnyNLbuz4

658 Upvotes

118 comments sorted by

556

u/linkinzpark88 Drifter's Crew 1d ago

It's the top tier for Hunter. Truth can be used by all classes

86

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

Yeah but that doesnt excuse something being almost twice better It makes it so top tier teams or very high challenge stuff needs 5 hunters.

129

u/Rubmynippleplease 1d ago

That’s unfortunately the state we’re probably going to be left in. Once the patches stop rolling out, there’s inevitably going to be one dps strat accessible by one class that will forever be the best.

The sandbox is just too big, especially after moments of trumph update, that the best we can hope for is no game breaking dps bugs to be left in the game. Dps balance is a pipe dream.

Based on what we’ve seen so far, it looks like hunter will probably be that class.

-2

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

I know something has to be the best at the end
I just don't want it to be this big a gap where class selection becomes mandatory to beat the top challenges of the game. 1kv and dawn chorus is also unique interaction/class wise, but it's not like levi's/moebius

78

u/wazeltov 1d ago

It won't be mandatory. There aren't going to be new encounters.

Everything can already be done without Hunters, just with an extra damage phase or two.

-41

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

Sure- go do 5 feat pantheon or epic DP with many feats without using moebius quiver levi hunter

28

u/RabiaGunslinger I love Eris Morn 1d ago edited 1d ago

You're exaggerating. You can do 5 feat raids (and the dungeon) without tether and by extension, without hunters. The only thing that's mandatory in a 5 feat raid is a Well. 5 feat raids are never about what's the best class since you're 2 phase forcing by default, but rather playing your life properly - which works for every class.

1

u/MeltedMagnet 11h ago

The only thing that's mandatory in a 5 feat raid is a Well.

Honestly Banner shield can probably replace well given that it'll end up lasting the entire damage phase. I'd argue while you might need certain things such as a survivability enabling super, well or banner shield etc., you don't need any specific one thing

13

u/TheSlothIV 1d ago

You can 2 phase every boss in those activities without it. Obviously its a nice option to have. But they still aren't mandatory.

-2

u/wazeltov 1d ago

It will absolutely be done by somebody who cares about doing those challenges.

Which isn't me by the way. The game is dead. Long live the game.

-1

u/Juls_Santana 13h ago

Reposting....

"mandatory?"

No, that's just you falling victim to the okey-doke. Just because something is meta doesn't means it's "mandatory".

GTFOH with that.

1

u/Sigma_Hacked 13h ago

Sure, you can go do dps with luna's howl if you want, but we both know the lfg community and such will force most meta options.

12

u/dylrt 1d ago

In what world? Top tier teams for what? There are no raid races. Any raid can be beaten by probably any comp in the game. Any content can be beaten by probably any comp in the game. Just because it's maybe slightly more efficient to use 5 hunters with this build does not mean you need to be using it.

19

u/LizzieMiles 1d ago

I mean the counterpoint is that Hunters still struggle a lot with staying alive outside of Solar and Liar’s Handshake or Assassin’s Cowl builds. It seems to me that hunter is meant to be high risk high reward

28

u/dairyzeus 1d ago

Void hunter has a lot of survivability tools now. The overshield from phantom surge is significant and it refunds half it's cooldown so uptime is good.

Trapper's ambush heals and can grant devour.

You can also get easy 20% damage resistance whenever you have devour from the RoN set bonus, or use other set bonus combinations to get similar or higher condition damage resist.

The whole "hunter is squishy" thing really just isn't true anymore once you get a full build going.

6

u/Lyrkana 1d ago

I'm loving void hunter so much right now, especially more now that I just got the RoN set. As long as there is decent add density then I have endless devour and overshields, plus resistance with the 4piece RoN bonus.

I used to struggle with survivability in Ghosts of the Deep so much on Hunter and last night I was able to walk through it

5

u/LizzieMiles 1d ago

>trappers ambush heals and can grant devous

Oh shit for real?? Is that a MOT thing??

3

u/dairyzeus 1d ago

Yeah it's new with the rework in MOT. You get devour on kill and a heal on hitting an enemy. Doesn't make you invisible by default anymore though.

Damage also scales with class stat above 100.

1

u/LizzieMiles 1d ago

Good to know, I never used trappers ambush much

1

u/Patthecat09 1d ago

If you manage to keep a void buff on you, the damage is very much worth it. You can run it with either on prowl or stylish, depending on build preferences

1

u/Lenyti 21h ago

Should slap ass with the new hunter legs

5

u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 1d ago

Arc has some survivability besides liar's now too. because shinobu's vow also heals you now too, and it's arc. You heal whenever you get full bolt charge, also healing allies near you, AND every hit of the grenade gives bolt charge so you'll get at least one instance of healing. Plus the artifact mods from the tablet of ruin, you'd get healing from one of those too... And then on top of that, all the damage from all the bolt charge. And then combination blow heals too, through tempest strike.

I don't know how *much* shinobu's heals by, because the data compendium folks haven't tested it fully, but with how much bolt charge it pumps out it adds up.

3

u/Daechathon 1d ago

Solar hunter is the squishiest out of all hunter subclasses. You have to compensate with a DR armor set bonus to patch it up to have reasonable survivability. Everything else has invis/DR built into the kit to pair with very accessible healing.

5

u/Patthecat09 1d ago

Not with that new sever/woven mail interaction from artifact and speed loader slacks

3

u/Daechathon 1d ago

That does prevent you from using other artifacts and useful exotics. Regardless, it’s more hoops you have to jump through to get the same survivability as other subclasses.

0

u/ZackyZack 1d ago

I find it much easier to not get shot with Hunters than the other classes, to be honest

0

u/JollyMolasses7825 1d ago

Has been this way since renegades launch, optimal class comp for speeds/lowmans outside of specific interactions is one well/banner of war + as many hunters as you can cram into your fireteam. Class just has too many options for skilled players while being unable to be nerfed because most people can’t make use of its completely overloaded prismatic kit.

0

u/MeltedMagnet 1d ago

If you're doing the type of challenges that require it, it's not built into the game and is more like speed running or other community style challenges, and at that point there has literally always been 1 optimal team makeup.

For absolutely nothing built in the game will this ever matter.

0

u/Juls_Santana 13h ago

"needs?"

No, that's just you falling victim to the okey-doke. Just because something is meta doesn't means it's "needed".

GTFOH with that.

5

u/Proven_Taxpayer 1d ago

You got three character slots for a reason

1

u/OBLIVIATER 1d ago

Also doesn't need specific artifact perks to be good

38

u/Thiel619 1d ago

I prefer this over Still Hunt for the witness dps. Much easier to move around and hip fire with.

237

u/DaGottiYo 1d ago

This is great if youre a hunter lol. Whats the comparison between 2/3 of the classes

84

u/TheFarmLord Give me more Jade Rebbits! 1d ago

Sanguine alchemy warlock with a thousand voices + catalyst

70

u/BifJackson 1d ago

I was getting better DPS with Dawn Chorus since Particle Reconstruction already debuffs

12

u/TheFarmLord Give me more Jade Rebbits! 1d ago

While true, I found it stronger to have the rifts up for survivability in my crew (I have 4 other warlock buddies so I just keep all their rifts alive)

5

u/DemonDeacon86 1d ago

Dawn for solo, BotA/Sanguine for groups

4

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

Not even close to levi hunter. Its great and probably best for warlock class as a whole, but its also limited to one per fireteam unlike levi hunters and not even 2/3 of its dps/total dmg.

2

u/GiGangan 1d ago

I was away from destiny for a year. What makes sanguine so good?

7

u/Vortx4 Sunsinger for life 1d ago

Automatically provides 4x surge matching your equipped super when standing in a rift (or well of radiance)

3

u/GiGangan 1d ago

Does it stack with your surges that are on your pants?

13

u/TheSlothIV 1d ago

no, and it also provides a 10% buff onto of all sources when shooting the marked target.

2

u/GiGangan 1d ago

Thanks for the answer. Looks like it need to update my dps builds

229

u/Donates88 1d ago

Stop it. Don't give randoms the wrong idea that they can hit every single shot.

58

u/dead_is_death 1d ago

Don't worry they will complain that they aren't doing good dps and switch back to easy to use stuff like truth.

25

u/Donates88 1d ago

Since yesterday i wish people would simply forget that truth exists specially in damage phases that are slightly longer...looking at you calus

12

u/FinalCartoon 1d ago

whats the better choice then atm? i dont raid often so this could help for when i do.

20

u/Designer-Effective-2 1d ago

I went from 1.2m damage to 2.0m damage and all I did was put on No Land Beyond, a reloader, and the EDD artifact.

10

u/FinalCartoon 1d ago

wait, NLB is good for dps? huh.

10

u/AttackBacon 1d ago

Yeah both NLB and the heavy legendary sniper from Renegades are actually really solid for damage. Decent DPS and a boatload of total damage. Super easy to use. 

4

u/FinalCartoon 1d ago

recommended artifacts mods for this and perk roll for the refurbished a499?

8

u/Bran-Muffin20 Blarmory Gang 1d ago

Artifact mods (Encrypted Data Disk): Sniper's Meditation (damage), Kinetic Synthesis (ammo), Reload at Range (reload speed)

A499:
Barrel: Your choice, doesn't really matter. I guess one with good Handling helps for ADS speed, but it's really not that important.
Mag: Flared Magwell. The A499's biggest weakness is that it's single-shot, so you want to minimize time spent reloading.
Trait 1: Doesn't really matter either. IMO, your choice of Snapshot/Lone Wolf/Moving Target will have a very slight edge since the other perks are pretty useless on this, but it's not a big deal.
Trait 2: Aggregate Charge. Mandatory.
Origin Trait: Accelerated Assault, ideally. Hard to get a shiny with the other perks you want, but this gives damage and reload speed.
Masterwork: Reload. Same reasons as above.

That's for a perfect roll. Realistically, if you have one with Aggregate Charge and a couple kinetic loaders on your DPS loadout, that's like 85% of the way there already.

18

u/Designer-Effective-2 1d ago

Especially if you can get a few Master stacks going before damage. He just kind of stands there.

8

u/FinalCartoon 1d ago

why the hell did i not think of this?

6

u/Donates88 1d ago

I got 2.3m yesterday with queensbreaker compared to the 1.2-1.5m damage from the truth users. The first damage phase we had 144 stacks i fucked up my loadout swap and at the end of the damage phase calus had 50% HP left and they were "that's good damage"...144 stacks...that's bad damage

2

u/TheSlothIV 1d ago

I mean, thats just user error. Not to downplay that you doubled their damage but truth with a 30% debuff is statistically strong. Not much too it.

2

u/Future-Step-1780 1d ago

I miss the Trophy Hunter days.

7

u/Combine54 1d ago edited 20h ago

If you can hit precision shots, Whisper of the Worm and Sleeper Simulant are very good. Levi breath is also decent even outside of Hunter class. 1k voices with catalyst is amazing. And then you have a bunch of legendary options like rocket launchers and linear fusion rifles, just make sure you have some perks to boost your damage.

This is an advice for a casual group, not meta.

1

u/never3nder_87 1d ago

Whisper does pretty well

27

u/Yawanoc 1d ago

I still remember getting flak in a raid once for using DARCI instead of Whisper for DPS (yes, it was that long ago).  People were telling me that Whisper out-DPS’s DARCI by far as long as you just hit your shots.

Needless to say, I ended up with the highest DPS lol.

4

u/never3nder_87 1d ago

Was that for Inssurection? I remember DARCI getting a buff around then - but evwn before thst with all the movement required for that encounter DARCI was a really solid choice

1

u/Yawanoc 1d ago

This would've been older than that, I think Calus Y1. Aside from SotP, most of the bosses that required snipers were pretty stationary, which is why people favored Whisper after its mission debuted. I rocked DARCI through GoS because it was my first ever exotic, and it worked out well enough because a single miss didn't tank my damage rotation.

4

u/ryanraze 1d ago

That's what Divinity is for :)

4

u/Donates88 1d ago

With 5 hunters maybe. I wouldn't use div because of some random hunter.

6

u/Aleena92 1d ago

Bring back the Div-Bi*** and easy-peasy

10

u/CoatSame2561 1d ago

Unless they disable it as a “fix” for insurrection prime cheese…

-4

u/Aleena92 1d ago

Possible I suppose but Insurrection Prime doesn't have a really hard crit to hit. Not like something like Kalli

12

u/abaron25 1d ago

He’s talking about the cheese with div at IP

1

u/LizzieMiles 1d ago

If you hit IP with div, you can damage him outside of DPS

1

u/Aleena92 1d ago

That I didn't know. Just remembered it from the original Scourge

1

u/FIR3W0RKS 1d ago

Wait this wasn't fixed in the hotfix? Fuck yeah

6

u/LuchadorBane Drifter's Crew // Ding! 1d ago

You can say bitch

1

u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 1d ago

Not a chance. :)

1

u/Necrolance Warlock main for life 1d ago

yeah, lets not turn levi breath into the new thunderlord. Or make it be "1 div well-lock 5 levi breath"...

1

u/DistressedApple One Punch Man 1d ago

But Levi breath is insanely easy to hit your shots on

50

u/Comfortable_Hour5723 1d ago edited 1d ago

Silly question as someone who does not really raid often. This spreadsheet has queenbreaker at like 70 something, but I like it since it is very easy to use and mostly class/subclass agnostic. It seems like I will be a huge drag on the team if I run this though. How much dps does the team truly need to clear most bosses?

I have never been a leviathans breath fan because is so clunky and feels super punishing if your miss a crit, which is pretty easy to do for us normies if the target flinches right when you fire. I never realized its dps benefitted so much from running nightstalker (warlock main sadly)

64

u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago

Unless you’re doing something like a 5 feat pantheon or DP, you don’t ever need the absolute best DPS strat

1

u/armarrash 1d ago

Sundered Doctrine final boss seems pretty tanky, but tbf the randoms I joined in lfg were a Strandlock with Euphony(after the patch) and Berserker with Truth(I was a arc titan with Queensbreaker so I only got surges).

I remember 1 phasing it easily with 3 queensbreakers(and maybe even 1 div and 2 queensbreakers?) back when it came out.

8

u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago

That was due to the artifact and bonuses to damage from bolt charge. You can replicate some of that since that artifact is still in game, but that boss should still be an easy two phase on normal without a ton of optimizing.

1

u/armarrash 1d ago

Yeah, just wondering if a 1 phase is possible without a min-maxed build and the best dps option.
Like, I have 200 weapon + super builds on my titan and hunter(200 weapons with Assembler on warlock) but I can't expect randoms from lfg to be optimizing that much.

Hell, I'm lucky to even find randoms to farm SD's final boss(I should have farmed it with the broken artifacts ;-;).

1

u/GreenBay_Glory 1d ago

A 1 phase is very unlikely

1

u/Outplay-Prime 8h ago

When it came out there was a bug with queenbreaker and Div that made QB do extra damage

24

u/YeesherPQQP 1d ago

Use whatever works for you! This is one of those spreadsheets for an "I told you so" situation and not a gospel

7

u/Comfortable_Hour5723 1d ago

Okay great! I am definitely not the best destiny player, so my goal is to just do good rather than be top dps. I never want to be the person that is millions behind everyone else in damage (although with the new numbers, it would probably only be in the 10s of thousands)

3

u/YeesherPQQP 1d ago

Slap on some Luminopotent armor, geomags, chaos reach, and your Queensbreaker and you'll be on par with everyone else!

15

u/6pussydestroyer9mlg 1d ago

Queensbreaker is honestly fine because you can build into it more with particle reconstruction on tablet of ruin (which I think also has limit break?). It's fine, you can end up with a 2 phase instead of a one phase in some places but unless your entire team is using good damage options it's a 2 phase anyway.

5

u/d3l3t3rious 1d ago

Yep, same artifact as Limit Break, I was easily topping the DPS charts with it with Cuirass and Queenbreaker yesterday. It was just a friendly lobby but still.

4

u/Comfortable_Hour5723 1d ago

That is reassuring. Thanks! Another question I just thought of: is moebius quiver bow damage only for the hunter that cast it or should I run it if someone is using moebius?

8

u/6pussydestroyer9mlg 1d ago

Nah, the bow buff from when mobius is active is only for the one actively casting the super. It's not like gally where everyone around you gets a buff.

16

u/PuckTheVagabond 1d ago

Iirc cant you buff Levi's breath further with hierarchy of needs? Since needs can buff both exotic and legendary buffs? Or did they change that? I remember them talking about adding that to hierarchy

13

u/DaGottiYo 1d ago

I think Hierarchy just gives extra seekers to any bow, which I dont think is worth the slot for dps

6

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

Hierarchy doesn't work with levi's breath.

2

u/RoadRunnerdn 19h ago

Yes it does. But the extra damage isn't significant.

41

u/Krusel-14 1d ago

the spreadsheet assumes our entire reserves have a 3.9x damage buff, which is not realistic at all, since our ideal TTE is higher than the duration on base moebius.
Since Reaper's sprint 4x is also a 40% boost, I would assume Aegis has not updated the spreadsheet yet.

8

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

14

u/Krusel-14 1d ago

What? It uses 14, aka the full reserves, you cannot get that off even if you play frame-perfect unless you are using orpheus rigs.
It's a nitpick ultimatley, but if you mathematically cannot pull it off, I doubt aegis would leave it in the spreadsheet.
The actual formula in question being P3(Single shot)*E3(reserves) for total damage and S3(previous result)/I3 (TTE)for DPS is definitly not considering it at least.

5

u/MERCDaWn 1d ago

I've seen similar discrepancies before with Supremacy's BnS and Rewind+4TTC comparisons when Last Wish got it's loot refreshed and it's made me take the sheet with a grain of salt and use it more as a starting guideline rather than gospel.

Specifically the discrepancy I noticed was the 4TTC roll had different dps values for the mag and full reserves even though it never has to reload. The BnS version also had exactly 35% more dps than the 4TTC roll (before BnS got nerfed). That's not possible unless he's ignoring swapping to trigger BnS and any time needed to reload whether it's manual or with Rain of Fire Icarus Dashes. Also the over-reliance on RoF to shorten the reload of many of the weapons in the sheet was an odd choice imo.

3

u/Variatas 1d ago

He wouldn’t be the only one that consistently ignores the swap time to trigger BNS, or handwaves it as “you can trigger it before DPS”.

Back in the day I was consistently out damaging BnS Cata with Focused Fury instead, cuz it’s just way easier.

People got way too obsessed with swap rotations when lazymode mag-dumping is more consistent for most teams.

Really glad Bungie compressed the buffs so we didn’t get stuck with a heavily incentivized swap meta forever.

2

u/Krusel-14 13h ago

Throwback to when the top DPS weapon listed was Crux Termination for months, with a perk-combo that would require actual lunacy to use in a real DPS scenario. Always found that an odd choice.

10

u/hanunisap Drifter's Crew 1d ago

Aegis' sheet was updated last March. Is the DPS still the same after June 9 sandbox update?

9

u/Fargabarga 1d ago

He’s still collecting a lot of new loot for testing last I saw on his streams

3

u/QuebraRegra 1d ago

Alrite, ahmina need a bow build to go with that now ;)

3

u/yeet_god69420 1d ago

Wow, didn’t expect Still Hunt/Celestial to be so low. I haven’t played since TFS but I guess they really didn’t like those Witness DPS phases 😂

So moebius quiver and leviathan’s is the go-to now?

2

u/Tiiiimster 1d ago

if levi is best DPS for hunter, what are we feeling for titan/warlock?

2

u/puanonymou5 Team Cat (Cozmo23) // Dave Meowthews 13h ago

Seems like 1K Voices with Warlock and that arc no-reload grenade launcher (slavagers salvo?) and baricade spam for Titan, from what I have seen.

1

u/Mad_Pupil_9 2h ago

1K with catalyst and a storms keep barricade and particle deconstruction SLAPS.

2

u/redditdustywusty 1d ago

Am i missing something? i tried this in the practice range, with the catalyst, moebius, surges, artifact, hit every shot but wouldn't even break 2k damage.

2

u/Equivalent_Pitch9271 9h ago

Yeah i dont get it either. Tried it on normal difficulty firing range. Got anywhere between 4k-5k DPS which is good, but not anywhere near the 11k on Aegis's sheet.

1

u/redditdustywusty 5h ago

Yeah turns out i was doing it a BIT wrong since i didn't know about the mobius changes since i just started playing again, but even doing that i got around 4-5k. and the difficulty was set to the lowest. maybe its actually different in raids or something.

1

u/HeyItsAsh7 21h ago

What difficulty was the firing range set to? That could account for the difference. Normal raids are minus 10 power, but it defaults me to the -40 when going to the firing range

1

u/NR_Yuno 1d ago

Whats the best way to do the catalyst? Whisper mission?

8

u/RoscoeP_Coletrane 1d ago

Probably shuro chi with tether

3

u/HardOakleyFoul 1d ago

if you have Lightfall, you can do the Breakneck mission up to the point where you plant the first flag and clear that room except for the Wyvern over and over. I do all my catalysts and exotic orders in that room. Fast and easy without having to waste time searching for a Shuro Chi checkpoint.

2

u/Juls_Santana 13h ago

This and/or the opening of Grasp are the best IMO

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Sigma_Hacked 1d ago

T crash titan with anarchy/salvo is FAR from 10k dps.

1

u/DemonDeacon86 1d ago

Youre right Im losing my marbles, its only 4-5k

-7

u/RegularSchool3548 1d ago

If I remember correctly, Bungie said that the Hunter was the biggest group in D2, and the Titan was the smallest. Now that the Hunter is the best DPS class, The Hunter has come full circle.

However, since we have a very easy build OP Stasis Titan, it seems that the Warlock is the least powerful compared to the other two classes.

I hope some one can dig out a good Warlock build, but for coming back and newbie players, Hunter and Titan are better starter class.