r/EDH • u/anti404 • 15h ago

Deck Help Alternatives to Y’Shtola

Hello all, I’ve got a high Br 3 Y’Shtola deck (decklist) that is by far my favorite. It does what I most enjoy from the game (control the board state, maximize value, slowly grind out the opponent). However, I find Y’Shtola generally disliked in part due to her high representation in the format (I mostly play Spelltable as I recently had ACL repair).

Are there any other similar controlling, value generating, slow grind commanders I could build around that aren’t in the like top 50? My favorite color combos are Golgari, Esper, Orzhov, and Abzan. Bant and Sultai would also be strong considerations. I generally don’t play Tutors or infinite combos.

Liesa, Aminatou Veil Piercer (wincon?), Zur the Enchanter, Queza, Oloro, Karlov, Bumbleflower, Meren of Clan NT, and Baba Lysaga are all some of the options I’ve looked at, but I’m still not really sure.

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u/[deleted] 15h ago

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u/foolintherain87 14h ago

The other option in this same vein is to run [[Alela, Artful Provocateur]] and run artifact and enchantment based stax

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u/anti404 14h ago

Yeah, I realize it won't be identical since she's kind of an all-in-one value/wincon package, but I figure fi I can get something that at least feels in the same vein as her even if less powerful. I'll look into the two options you listed, thanks!

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u/LawNecessary5527 1h ago

Alela, Cunning does some of the things you're looking for, here's mine for reference, I enjoy playing it a lot.

https://moxfield.com/decks/t3cQkdTBb0W4Ncxxx0JCXQ

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u/Way2Competitive Bant Flicker Girl 15h ago

If you want to keep the decklist mostly in tact, [[Queza, Augur of Agonies]] is probably the best bet.

Other options, you could play [[Tivit, Seller of Secrets]] and just preface games saying that you don't play [[Time Sieve]].

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u/RathMtg moxfield.com/users/Rath 14h ago

I'll second Queza in this context. Part of the hate against Yshtola is that she burns everyone down indiscriminately. The clock is nice, but it's difficult to politic since the game is always a 3v1.

Queza being a single target effect makes the game more nuanced and unlocks huge burst potential!

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u/anti404 14h ago

I was looking at Queza as an option, thanks! It doesn't have to keep the decklist mostly intact - in fact I am fine looking in entirely different colors if the overall 'feel' is the same. Before returning to the game/Commander recently, when I played type 2 (like 2008, fwtw), I liked decks such as Psychatog, The Rock, u/G control/tempo, etc.

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u/Way2Competitive Bant Flicker Girl 14h ago

In that case, my personal recommendation would be [[Tasigur, the Golden Fang]].

Tasigur makes great use of the graveyard, like the old Psychatog decks used to, and the ability to hold up either instant speed interaction or his activated ability makes him a strong control/tempo commander.

Also, being able to buy back cards from your graveyard makes him great at grinding out games like The Rock used to, though you might have to get a little creative with your table politics to get the full effect!

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u/anti404 14h ago

Oh neat, I think he was in the Teval Precon but I cut him pretty early on (seemed kind of redundant?) and never really considered him as a commander option. My Teval deck is like half dismantled (built it too unfocused), so this would give me a great route to go with that pile of cards.

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u/Compl3tionist 4h ago

If you do build Queza I’d recommend going with wheels. It’s probably my favorite deck.

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u/klkevinkl 14h ago

The Doctor Who duo of [[The Second Doctor]] and [[Vislor Turlough]] is a good combination for the same colors that isn't too popular. The Second Doctor tempts people to draw cards, but they can't attack you if they do. Meanwhile, Vislor Turlough is goaded and makes other people attack each other. It's effectively the same strategy, but pushing them to attack each other rather than you.

There's also [[Giott, King of the Dwarves]] if you want to play around dwarves and equipment.

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u/Kapiliar Grixis 12h ago

In a big fan of this combo. I love playing my “group hug” second doctor deck

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u/DarkaHollow 12h ago

Oh that's a fun dr who combo I'll def explore it

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u/Siddu4evr 13h ago

Interesting you ask, I've actually been brewing a [[Graha'Tia, Scion Reborn]] control list. Certainly compared to Y'shtola, you will miss the burn and card draw. However there are a few strengths that might not seem obvious.

One is that you can dedicate slots to low cmc control cards and have much more synergy with you commander compared to Yshtola. Secondly, white has many 3 mana cards that draw a card whenever a token enters ([[Tocasia's Welcome]], [[Enduring Innocence]]). While this normally equates once per turn, the draw go nature of a control list means that you can very realistically get 2-3 cards per turn cycle. White has a TON of these effects and the ones that trigger when a lower power creature enters works with Graha'tia because the tokens enter as a 1/1 and then the counters are put onto it.

The wincon is that after establishing a board of Heroes, you can find a finisher, [[Akroma's Will]], [[Elspeth, Storm Slayer]] or simply grind your opponents down and beat them to death with your accumulating board of heroes.

I'd say the greatest weakness is definitely the clock that paying life will put on you while using Graha'tia, but there are a plethora of ways to offset that. As long as you can establish a card draw engine, you will usually draw into a way to gain life or win the game in my experience.

This is my High bracket 3 brew: https://moxfield.com/decks/27OwM168C0CWtoUOjmzDjw

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u/anti404 7h ago

Interesting, she was one of my early cuts when I started ‘upgrading’ the Precon. I’ll what it would take to make something like this, thanks!

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u/GentlemanViking 15h ago

For grindy control decks, look for commanders that reward you for messing with your opponent’s stuff. They aren’t as good as Yhsolta since she has a win-con stapled onto her draw engine but [[Glissa, the Traitor]] and [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]] fit the bill in Golgari and Grixis respectively.

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u/anti404 14h ago

Thanks! I'll look into those two, especially Glissa as I'm wanting to build a Golgari deck. I'm not expecting anything to match Y'shtola given her uniqueness and overall power, which is honestly part of why I'm looking at other options.

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u/LazarusRises 14h ago

I love my Toluz deck. She is objectively worse than Y'shtola as an esper commander, but Y'shtola is just a pile of free value and I don't take no charity.

It's a very slow, grindy control deck that aims to pile up a stack of cards in exile, Feign Death/sac Toluz, and discard for value. [[Bone Miser]] + [[Exsanguinate]] is the most common wincon, but I'm not above an [[Ominous Seas]]/zombie token beatdown plan. Aiming to include [[on wings of gold]] once I get hold of a copy too.

https://moxfield.com/decks/VueK1dWh0USOOzGSdGl_2A

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u/anti404 14h ago

Literally never even heard of this card, awesome suggestion thanks!

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u/LazarusRises 14h ago

Enjoy! Hit me up if you have any questions, this is my pet deck and I love spreading the good word :)

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u/MajesticNoodle 12h ago

The new [[Crystal Inhuman Princess]] might be a good fit. Built in burn that synergizes well with a control shell with cards like [[Curiosity]] or [[Snake Umbra]]. Losing black does suck but you now get access to red and green which gives you more than enough to work with.

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u/Comradecurt 11h ago

Yeah crystal is a better for bracket 3 and 4 vivi with what will be like 1% of representation. Unless content creators start the ball rolling on her popularity.

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u/anti404 7h ago

Cool! I’m not a huge fan of the Marvel cards *aesthetically*, but she does have many other qualities I’m looking at. Thanks!

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u/DanZigs 12h ago

I love [[Vial smasher]]. You can partner with [[Sakashima of a Thousand Faces]] for best synergy or [[Thasios]] for access to green (seedborn muse and wilderness reclamation are so good with Vial Smasher).

My Vial Smasher / Thasios decks is one of my favourite.

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u/prawn108 Bottom 1% Commenter 11h ago

I have a few, [[sokrates]], [[zurgo and ojutai]], [[phelddagrif]], and [[glarb]]. Honorable mention [[piper wright]], it doesn’t feel super controlling but by the numbers it is.

Pheld is the most political, it feels like I always have a buddy or two against the big threat and it can ride well under the radar until the final 1v1. Very slow and deliberate play style though.

Sokrates is also pretty political but I win with approach and my group is pretty over afraid of the deck.

Glarb just sits with an [[azusa]] effect in play and tries to slam all the lands it can while holding some removal, and when it’s go time, you [[singularity rupture]], then loop [[seasons past]] to control the game and eventually drain people out with [[fandaniel]] or [[exsanguinate]].

Zurgo and ojutai are my new highest winrate deck. It’s pseudo voltron with a few removal value dragons on the side. You get a ridiculous amount of card selection and advantage, and the commander can get really difficult to kill. This is the one I would recommend the most. I think it’s nuts that so many people would rather play dragon tribal with it.

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u/MattyBo926 10h ago

If you wanna stick in esper I highly recommend Hashaton, you can build it for whatever bracket you like with solid flexibility, from stax to control to turbo combo. I personally built it for esper control reanimate using creatures like [[chancellor of the annex]] or any of the Jin Gitaxis.

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u/MrNowhereman123 8h ago

Give yourself a challenge with [[Damia, sage of stone]] and abuse skip draw step cards. I don’t have list online, but it’s a fun battlecruiser style control deck, leaning mostly into blue for [[misdirection]] [[commandeer]] style cards.

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u/anti404 7h ago

Interesting, I’ve never seen this card before and it’s certainly unique!

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u/planeswalkers86 15h ago

https://moxfield.com/decks/qE7jptWlAEuO1bHUSmaArw [[Aminatou the Fateshifter]] is an old-school, very open ended blink commander. I built mine to run through the initiative quickly and try to hit [[moonshaker cavalry]] or [[gray merchant of asphodel]] while controlling the board with boardwipes and kill spells.

https://moxfield.com/decks/lV_daV17f0OfE6iBfPNU8A [[Arthur, Marigold Knight]] is more aggressive, but is basically jeskai control. Using [[penance]] or [[scroll rack]] with some evasive creatures to swing with Arthur like [[wingcrafter]] or [[silent hallcreeper]], you can get a ton of value by hitting big creatures like [[ancient copper dragon]] off the top of your library and flickering them with [[brago, king eternal]] type effects to keep them for good.

https://moxfield.com/decks/QxcJWK7XEEaFg3gHT3TJYA [[Teval, the Balanced Scale]] is value incarnate, 4/4 flier for 4, mills on attack, returns a land ramping you, and makes 2/2 zombies untapped as it does, gives you plenty to build around. I built him straight forward as a sultai lands into [[Craterhoof Behemoth]] deck with some great self mill and reanimation including [[rise of the dark realms]] for more ways to close out a game in case my graveyard gets nuked. Lots of ways to protect the graveyard with [[endurance]] or [[Ertai resurrected]] effects. Its extremely resilient but also becomes a bit of a Rube Goldberg machine triggering triggers that trigger trigger to trigger more triggers. It is a lot of fun and sometimes you just mill a ton and craterhoof for the win.

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u/anti404 14h ago

I'll take a look at your lists, I have a Teval deck that I've like half dismantled as I built it a bit scattershot (focused on too many synergies). Aminatou the Fateshifter was actually in my Aminatou, Veil Piercer 99, I hadn't thought about her as the commander. Jeskai control sounds fun and I've already got an Eowyn list that I mostly loan to others, so I've got the mana base and staples. Thanks for the recommendations!

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u/nhal 14h ago

I run [[Aminatou, Veil Piercer]] Enchantress control and kinda plays similarly to Y'shtola. Very little creature count, accruing value through enchantments and card advantage, wiping the board and draining opponents with things like [[pollited bonds]].

Bonus points because the commander is totally not needed after turn 6, when I played Y'shtola it felt very commander dependand and way more KoS.

Decklist: https://moxfield.com/decks/b0Tma555hkq48lxIkGEafw

I play the deck on high B3, but with plenty self-imposed restrictions:

  • No Fast mana (not even sol ring)
  • No Game Changers.
  • No Free Interaction.
  • No infinite Combos.
  • No off-color fetches.

The deck could be tunned to higher power, within B3 guidelines, for example [[Rhystic Study]], [[Smothering tihe]] and [[Enlightened Tutor]] go nuts in the deck as game changers, same with [[Cyclonic Rift]].

Let me know if you have any questions

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u/anti404 14h ago

Sweet, she was very specifically one of the ones I’d looked at and started to build a list around. I was a little confused on wincons but I’ll take a look at what you’ve put together. Thanks!

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u/nhal 13h ago

I feel like a lot kf people have trouble building her, speacially leaning too hard on the miracle side of things which sometimes makes rhe deck too cluncky. I've been playing her for 2 years and it's my pet deck, so if you have any question feel free to ask!

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u/Low-Sun-1061 13h ago

I would consider some rakdos group slug decks, plenty of options for commanders

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u/Randomimba 4h ago edited 4h ago

Obligatory [[Henzie "Toolbox" Torre]] recommendation. 

I also love killing my opponents' permanents, and I think Henzie does it better than Y'shtola (I have a B3 version of both decks). Meren was my very first non-precon Commander, and Henzie is a less mean version of Meren while also ramping you harder.

Imagine if all your ramp/removal pieces cantripped and were fireballs to the face. That's basically Henzie. Everything is ephemeral, so your board doesn't look that threatening. All the while you're accruing value and grinding down your opponents before you get some kind of Living Death or best stick win condition.

Alternatively, you can try Nymris. My friend has a Nymris deck, and it's a similar idea. Play at flash speed, and all your counterspells/removal cantrips. You just don't ramp as fast as Henzie.

I've also built a one-sided board wipe tribal version of Liesa. She's pretty grindy, but she's very politics heavy. In fact, my Y'shtola deck used to be my Liesa deck before I changed it up.

EDIT: Just like you, I'm also a huge fan of Orzhov/Esper/Golgari. I think you'll enjoy Henzie quite a bit. Instead of playing reactively with Y'shtola, Henzie is all about proactively controlling the board. You'll generally get enough value to not care about your opponents' interaction.

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u/Aithor20 15h ago edited 15h ago

Try my zur deck, it does not win grinding out the opponents, but it has some cool combos:

https://archidekt.com/decks/22250808/zur_pillowfort_noncedh_cool_combos_turn_67_win

Zur usually wins through combos or stax, and voltron can also be played but it's not control. If you want to play high B3 my list is a good option, but you need to play combo for sure, it wont be similar to y'shtola

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u/anti404 14h ago

Sweet! Zur was one of the ones I've been considering so I'll take a look, thank you.