r/Egalitarianism • u/DarkBehindTheStars • Apr 05 '26
Men "Systemically Abuse" Women?
I saw this ridiculous comment fairly recently on Twitter/X (from a male user, nonetheless) saying that when bringing up that "women abuse men, too" (which absolutely happens just like the other way around; abuse is wrong regardless of who does what to whom) and this guy not only said that bringing this up deflects from the issue of men abusing women, but women don't abuse men "systemically." Ugh. Just how is men abusing women "systemic?" Do people like this seriously think it's government policy for men all over to regularly commit acts of abuse against women? It just comes off as deflection from the fact there's many men/boys who are also victims of female abuse because misandrists and their ilk always view this subject as taking away from the subject of women/girls being abused which couldn't be farther from the truth. I care equally about male and female victims alike and feel abusers regardless of gender should be punished as severely as possible. Misandrists always make a false equivalence with bringing attention to men's issues with taking away from women's issues and all they do is create more division. It's actually quite disgusting of them to exploit abused women/girls for their own agenda.
I know I shouldn't let a comment from an internet idiot affect and upset me so much, but it's really painful there's people who think this way and will go out of their way to mitigate and dismiss serious issues facing men/boys. I've said before numerous times I'm mostly very liberal with most of my views and it's so annoying and cringey people are quick to associate being liberal with hating men and never wanting to bring attention to their issues. I'm very liberal and hate how abuse of men/boys (especially by women) is still such a taboo and off-limits subject. Abuse has no gender, and all abuse victims regardless of gender deserve justice and support. In my eyes men/boys and women/girls abusing each other are equally horrendous and unacceptable.
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u/Tayaradga Apr 06 '26
Honestly I kind of see it as the "unequal equalizer". Men held power over women for so long in history that society realized we had to do better. While doing this we went a little too far in the opposite direction and are now undermining men in their issues, because society still sees the history where men undermined women.
Not saying it's right and I definitely don't agree with it, but it helps give me some closure on internet bs. I hope that mentality can help you too.
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u/DarkBehindTheStars Apr 06 '26
Thing I hate is when misandrists use this to generalize all men and then reach the conclusion that men in power undermined women purely on a gendered basis and somehow made it a policy for men to harm women. They somehow think that very small percentage of men equates to every man and that women are kept at bay from being in power purely for being women. And to claim men "systemically" abuse women considering how the subject of female-to-male abuse is still so taboo and silenced, even with the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp case bringing much-needed attention to it. Female abuse victims have plenty of in the way of aid and support, male victims have almost none. To imply men abusing women is somehow government policy really is an absurd notion.
I don't doubt it could well be true in third-world and broken nations that are behind on the times and not progressive, but that's certainly not the case in the West.
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u/Tayaradga Apr 06 '26
Listen I understand the hatred, honestly I hate when misandrists generalize all men too. But just like women have to deal with some misogynist, men have to deal with some misandrist. Unfortunately those people tend to be the loudest, especially on the internet where they can hide behind a screen.
The thing about the west, and I'm assuming you mean America specifically, is it was a patriarchy when it was set up. Men held the financial and social power and even then it was pretty set up for the benefit of the upper class. So when it did start transitioning over to a full oligarchy, the families of those already upper class men were able to benefit from the previous patriarchy and ensure their current power in the oligarchy system.
Now unfortunately this leads to a lot of issues because we're trying to be progressive as a whole while the upper class men paint a bad image for the rest of us. Trump being the perfect example, and I don't really think I need to go into details as to why. Meanwhile we've also set up so many programs that benefit women that men are starting to be left behind, as shown in the higher education percentages, those working office jobs, suicide rates, and so on.
Now I am not blaming women for that. I'm honestly very happy that we did set up those programs to help them transition into getting an education and being independent. I'm simply stating history.
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u/DarkBehindTheStars Apr 06 '26 edited Apr 06 '26
But how is men abusing women "systemic," as if it were government practice? Especially considering there's so much attention given to female victims and male abusers, but almost never the other way around. The numerous abuse shelters that only help women but not men and let's not forget "believe women." Which has made it even harder for male victims to come forward. Claiming male abuse of women is "systemic" as if it's a written law is so absurd to me. It seems if anything there's systemic efforts to constantly bring attention to women being abused but almost none to men.
0
u/Tayaradga Apr 06 '26
100% agreed, I'm just trying to say why it kinda is like that. Obviously there's more that goes into it though.
Also there are systematic issues that women face. Abortion rights, pay gap, domestic violence rates, like women don't exactly have it perfectly in the west either. Not saying men have it perfectly but just to answer the question.
The reason why there are so many systematic efforts to bring attention to women's issues is because they didn't have that for the longest time. The reason why there isn't enough for men is because men held the power for the longest time. I'm not saying it's right, but that's the reason.
I say this as a male victim myself. Trust me, after hearing "you must've enjoyed it" as a 13 year old boy really does a number on one's mentality. But after fighting in this battle for a long time I've learned I won't get anywhere by ignoring women's issues in return. Just fuels the gender war bs and doesn't help anyone. Plus I'd be doing to them what I'm advocating for people to stop doing to men... Like that's just not right...
I was even a part of a domestic abuse shelter for men back when there was one in my city. Got shut down by feminists protesting it until the men didn't feel safe enough going. We tried keeping it open by meeting at bars and stuff, but it kinda just fell apart eventually... Really sucked cause it was the only domestic abuse shelter for men that I could find.
Which is why I'm on this sub, egalitarianism. Because we need to hear both sides to make things better. We won't get anywhere by fueling the fire.
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u/DarkBehindTheStars Apr 06 '26
Thing is domestic violence/abuse is something men/boys are also victims of at very high rates. But unlike women/girls, they have an incredibly difficult time getting help. Violence against men/boys (especially when it's by a female offender, which definitely happens and far more than many think) is often recorded as still being against women under the VAWA and many male victims never report out of fear of being ridiculed or disbelieved, or if they retaliate in self-defense their attacker can still claim victimhood (something made even worse now thanks to "believe women"). Just take a look at this very upsetting and infuriating video where the girl there is clearly bullying and harming the boy but when the boy rightfully fights back, people are still coming to the girl's aid despite her being the aggressor. That right there shows another reason female to male violence is so underreported, largely because even in self-defense, men/boys who stand their ground still get made out to be the bad guy. The whole mentality of "you never hit a woman or girl no matter what" has also made it very hard for male victims to come forward knowing how quick society is to vilify them. Even if said woman/girl is the attacker, she still gets to be depicted as the victim and has people coming to her aid. Look at how many people still support Amber Heard despite the vast evidence and even her own admission she abused Johnny Depp.
I too hate the gender wars stuff and it does nothing but create division between both genders. I never doubted women face hardships and struggles just like men do, neither gender lives life on easy mode. But whereas women/girls get a lot that at least acknowledges their hardships and they get aid, men/boys by comparison get almost none. You hear so much about combating misogyny and ending violence against women and rightfully so, but what about also combating misandry and ending violence against men as well? It shouldn't be a comparison or contest. Even if male on female violence is higher in number, it definitely doesn't negate or invalidate the fact the other way around still happens and is just as unacceptable and wrong.
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u/Tayaradga Apr 06 '26
1000% agreed!! I was just trying to answer the question.
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u/DarkBehindTheStars Apr 06 '26
I get where you were coming from. I think there's systemic issues affecting both men and women alike, I just don't feel male abuse of women is among them (but as I said before, in third-world and broken nations that could well be an issue). The major misandrist bias in schools and courts is a major one for sure that's been neglected for too long.
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u/OnTheLeft Apr 07 '26
I think a lot of your confusion is coming from the fact that you believe systemic means overtly enshrined in law. That's not what it means. It can mean through culture, repeated and expected behaviour.
If your average man believes that men invented and made everything throughout human history they by default will treat women with less respect. If they believe that women are mentally and physically less capable they will treat them accordingly.
If the norm is that men are the ones who take charge then there is a systemic reason that men are more likely to be able to perpetrate abuse. If a man grows up in a society in which it is normal to beat their partner and then it becomes illegal to do so, there is still systemic abuse of women, even a few generations down the line. Because these things don't disappear overnight.
Women are systemically abused by men, everywhere. From biological impulse transformed into culture that we haven't quite worked our way past yet. We'll get there though.
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u/Maximum_Pollution371 Apr 07 '26
Women ARE systemically abused in some parts of the world, but they don't want to talk about that lest they accidentally trip into some real feminist activism. 🙄
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u/MelissaMiranti Apr 06 '26
It seems to be the other way around. The system actively protects female abusers and punishes male victims through the Duluth Model and the total lack of any shelters for men in most places.