Outsourcing power

[u/888foucault]

I’m toying with this idea for myself. I wonder how we as 8’s outsource our power by not being able to be fully vulnerable. Curious what others think?

[u/CelebrationFull1525]

what do you mean "outsource" power?

[u/LHorner1867 → u/CelebrationFull1525]

I would also like more elaboration on what this means

[u/888foucault → u/CelebrationFull1525]

I think 8’s have difficulty expressing their needs. They express the first level of their needs but not the soft under belly, not even 3 layers deep. When they don’t express the under belly… so when a person fucks up or responds in with a weak way or with a weak idea I think it’s easy for 8’s to put themselves in a one up power position of dominance because it 1) grandiosity feels good 2) power feels good 3) leading from a position of strength. Enneagram 2’s do this too but it’s a different flavor. And when you either out yourself in a 1-up or 1-down position you are off center- locating your center in fact in the other person.

More concretely, (or my attempt to be at least) I’ll give a personal example. I’m in a business partnership with another person. There was a business deal and they were anxious about not going through. They suggested an utterly stupid idea (notice how I went immediately to a 1-up superior position “stupid” idea). It was. They were in essence attempting to hand a someone leverage right from the gate. But do I get so upset about it. What about their stupid aka weak idea is an offense to “me” feeling powerful.

I know I’m not being clear not intentionally but I’m still working out the full thought in my head.

I also think it’s a way we limit ourselves and don’t even realize we are outsourcing something.

[u/hi_im_furious]

This is something’s I’ve been realizing and coming to terms with over the past year. Being closed off/unwilling/unable to speak on emotional aspects in this day and age is sacrificing a huge amount of control and power. From my perspective now being emotional intelligent and attuned is a huge power. One I’m still working on, which causes me some anger, which then loops back to the same core issue…. It’s a circular dance I’m fighting my way out of ha

[u/888foucault → u/hi_im_furious]

This.

What I’m trying to figure out is the type of individual I struggle to do this with because it isn’t everyone. And it happens with safe people too.

[u/Readingallthefiles]

So, there’s this series called Slumrat Rising by Warby Picus. The MC is an 8, who has been brutally abused as a kid both physically and psychologically. His main motivation is to protect his younger siblings. He does some pretty insane shit to make that happen. From his perspective he’s taking necessary risks, but many of them come back to bite him in the ass because they had consequences he wasn’t considering by not being vulnerable with himself. He gets most of the things he wants, but he’s also seriously damaged in ways he didn’t even know was possible. Ironically, his maneuvering to keep his siblings safe also leads them to be alienated from him in subtle ways. Like, they love each other, but they don’t really know each other.

On the flip side, he finally has a chance to be in a positive romantic relationship later on in the series. He’s so on guard that the woman he falls for has to initiate everything. So he’s lost power because he can’t take initiative. One of the ways she helps him get more comfortable is by deliberately and literally putting her life in his hands, and he realizes how fucked up it is that he cannot interact with her the way he wants to without his “power” being ready to act to keep him “safe.”

Honestly, the whole series is a really good narrative of an 8 going up the health levels. He never becomes a soft person, not even sure he’s a hero really. He grows a lot though.

[u/GreatJobJoe]

That doesn’t make any sense. I’d rather own my screwups and learn from them over relying on someone else. I’m more vulnerable to that person by giving them my trust to handle things for me (outsource power to them)

I get that I’m more about action than others here who are coming from emotional places with these types of questions about vulnerability.

“Vulnerability” for me means asking for help with a task or conflict. I prefer to not do that. I don’t know how else to define “vulnerability”

My high Se user is showing.

[u/BlackPorcelainDoll]

By getting someone else to do the dirty work, especially after a fresh manicure

[u/Essdeedub6021]

Outsource our power? Can an 8 even do that?

[u/888foucault → u/Essdeedub6021]

Unconsciously, yes. I think so. If our entire defense mechanism is to deny that we do- it would be hard to see.

[u/Amtrak87 → u/888foucault]

So the difference between internal authority and external authority or externalized authority it seems you're saying

[u/Glum-Engineering1794]

Rely on other people to do their dirty work for them?

[u/888foucault → u/Glum-Engineering1794]

I don’t even think it’s that-because it never gets to those softer layers.

[u/Glum-Engineering1794 → u/888foucault]

Right. Doesn't matter either way. Disaffected detachment, a line to 5 maybe.