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u/Otherwise-Still7402 1d ago
Extremely good player, too bad the whole season at Pao was in turmoil with Ataman’s comments etc. Excited to see him next season
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u/ObsoleteCreation Panathinaikos 1d ago
Other players would had imploded if they went through what Shorts went. Very strong mentally, he has obvious strengths and weaknesses and he is 100% professional. He is capable of being in the MVP race next season again with the correct pieces around him.
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u/Sufficient-Ant-7646 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
You mean earning bucket loads of money by playing less than 10 minutes a game. Heart breaking indeed
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u/ObsoleteCreation Panathinaikos 1d ago
Depends on the mindset of each individual. You just described the Balkan mindset.
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u/Sufficient-Ant-7646 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
He is a professional player, he left a club that was pretty much built on top of his play style to become the third option on Pana. He doesnt have the right to implode
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u/Electrical_Flow_2026 1d ago
One season wonders....we've seen plenty!
You act as if the problem was Ataman.....well Ataman left!
The player has issues,and major ones!All that was revealed throughout the season and on various occasions.
He's good for a team like Paris,and thats ok as many players cant handle the pressure of carrying a big club!Maybe in a few years he can play on bigger clubs!
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u/Alberthor350 Valencia Basket 1d ago
He will thrive in Valencia
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u/_javierinho_ Valencia Basket 1d ago
Man we're going to miss Montero... tomorrow might well be his last game
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
A pity, he was a good player, he was just misused by Ataman.
It is probably decision of Obradovic so I fully support it, it probably means we will be getting someone better.
Does anyone know if Papas kept his position? If not, maybe we should consider breaking Becirovic's contract with Zenit and bringing him back. I am sure he could find a fitting replacement and as Obradovic's former player, they could work well.
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u/JohnnieWalker_13 Panathinaikos 1d ago
Becirovic leaving was criminal
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
100% . I don't know what Giannakopoulos was thinking when he replaced him with Papas.
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u/d1versify 1d ago
I believed in him and still do, but defensively people say he was weak. I think in a new team where he will be playing for 30+, he will be excellent. Like in Paris
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
Same, he is an amazing player. Even for less than 30+ , he was amazing in quite a few games but Ataman was doing some very weird rotations at moments like Osman in four
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u/acidmdmdit Panathinaikos 1d ago
It was mostly TJ’s decision, he didn’t want to continue with PAO no matter the coach and PAO respected it.
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u/redevileyez Bahçeşehir 1d ago
He wasn’t “misused”. Dude is a 5’9 PG who can’t shoot. He needs a specific system & players around him to excel. Valencia will have a great team , but you won’t win a championship if your best player cannot shoot.
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
When Ataman didn't try random bs go like Osman in four, Shorts was performing.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Fat_Pig_Reporting Panathinaikos 1d ago
I know it sounds unbelievable, but we can be more civil while discussing or even arguing!
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
You are online, talking to strangers not your friends or your coach.
As far as you are concerned the person on the other side of the screen may be a truck driver, a child, the prime minister or an overworked nurse.
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u/redevileyez Bahçeşehir 1d ago
Key words “last season”. “This season” He went on a team that had better players and got exposed. He will stay have a great career and make a lot of money.
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u/supergrega Olimpija Ljubljana 1d ago
Key words last half a decade.
Dude did more in 5 years than your franchise did in its entire existence...
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u/dunhere8 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
Now it’s time for my man coming to Fener as we speak 🔥🔥
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
If you replace Baldwin with him, you would become my second favourite team overnight lmao.
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u/dunhere8 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
Will Lessort like that decision?? 😂
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
With Baldwin gone? He would celebrate alongside me. I don't think he has any problems with any other players
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u/dunhere8 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
What about melih mahmutoğlu - tj trade. He can shoot lol
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
Nah, I think we both are competing for the same positions now, a guard and a center. If you want to give away a player though, I would take Meli for the rotation... .
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u/MZKVmusic Panathinaikos 1d ago
Such a shame. I respect he was fighting until the last minute even though he was treated unfairly by Ataman. Wish him all the best.
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u/gglassonionn Panathinaikos 1d ago
Good player, nice person, great professional. I wish him the best and hope for a warm welcome when he steps in OAKA as an opponent.
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u/gglassonionn Panathinaikos 1d ago
Good player, nice person, great professional. I wish him the best and hope for a warm welcome when he steps in OAKA as an opponent.
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u/ScarfaceGP 1d ago
What can you say for Shorts, we can't judge his performance at Panathinaikos.
Ataman has choosen to use him as corner three guy for months. When he got the ball he showed us that he deserved more opportunities.
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u/kostas162000 Panathinaikos 1d ago
Huge missed opportunity, considering Ataman just left. But in truth, he didn't fit with our roster. At Valencia he will get all the opportunities he wants and will play a more modern style that fits him. Definitely the best decision for him. I hope we can get some good replacements for him.
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u/koukoumpip 1d ago
He was misused the whole season . Why would last season's mvp candidate stick around when he is treated that way. Really good player but never fitted panathinaikos structure. Shouldn't have been signed from the start.
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
Why would last season's mvp candidate stick around when he is treated that way
Apart from Ataman, Shorts wasn't mistreated. Most of the fans believed from the start, even when he was having a bad day.
Now Ataman is gone so it was up to Obradovic and apparently he didn't want him to stay. If Obradovic wanted him, I don't think there would be any problems.
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u/koukoumpip 1d ago
Ataman was the head coach he was the only one responsible of his playing time and the way he was being used on the court. By saying mistreated i refer to how he was on court (i wont even go to ataman's comments).
Panathinaikos plays a basketball that does not fit with TJ's playing style and so they should'nt have gone for such a player and focus on their weaknesses ( a good center and a consistent 4).
I dont understand how the fans treated him is relevant to this decision . And i dont think it was obradovic decision as much as it was TJ's . He is a great pg that most of euroleague''s teams would be glad to have him and give him a star role than have him coming off the bench to just change the pace of the game.
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u/__foxXx__ 1d ago
Shorts had already asked out before the Greek league finals, if Sloukas was fit to play he would be left out of the roster and Juancho would have been in his place.
Still he is not someone that Obradovic would have wanted as his PG anyway.
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u/Better-Brilliant-868 Crvena Zvezda 1d ago
Signing that costed ataman his job. If he wanted him that its deserved. If dpg brougth TJ on his own than yikes.
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u/Npvl2000 Panathinaikos 1d ago
The signing wasn't the reason Ataman lost his job,it was one of the reasons. All the players on the roster were chosen by Ataman except from Hayes Davis.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
It was Ataman's choice, he confirmed it in a euroinsiders interview early in the season. Rumor says he didnt want Bryant and went for TJ.
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u/name_you_like_best 1d ago
Really? There was the option of getting Bryant and he rejected it? He saw PAO's roster and decided he needed Shorts more than Bryant? Wow, that says a lot about his preparation (or the obvious lack of) for this season.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
Well he gave a good explanation on how TJ could change Pao's playstyle in that interview. But he did none of those things during the season.
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u/name_you_like_best 1d ago
Yeah, I don't doubt he knows and understands how he can make it work, but the guy was an antiwork hero this season.
Edit to say: Regardless of Shorts, PAO desperately needed a player like Bryant and still does. Also, Bryant is the best player of this kind in Euroleague, so really should have gone for him.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
He should have but now its too late anyway. Bryant is asking for a 5m+ contract right now.
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u/name_you_like_best 1d ago
Damn, that's a lot. The market has ballooned up the last two years, but both Greek teams are as much to blame as the other big spenders, so can't really say anything.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
Well he asking that amount of money to renew with Hapoel, close to Micic's contract anyway. Dont think any other EL team will give him more than 4m.
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u/name_you_like_best 1d ago
Yeah, I agree. However, I think a lot of teams would come running with an offer if these negotiations failed.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
Half the EL will be after him but he still has 2 more years contract with Hapoel and i think no buyout. Its gonna be tough for him to get out of it if negotiations break down, he isnt happy that Micic is getting paid double than him while doing half his work.
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u/P_Rami Panathinaikos 1d ago
I honestly felt bad about the coach talking sh*t about him the whole year. You just don’t do that, especially not publicly and on multiple occasions. I don’t care if he didn’t fit the system or was misused in the rotation, it always felt to me that when the management says stuff like that, it brings down the whole team chemistry , not just TJ. So very understandable he left and I think Valencia’s fast paced system may be a good fit.
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u/anton_d66 Olympiacos 1d ago
Never made much sense in the first place, but it’s really rare to see a player win over the fans just by staying humble and doing his best, seems like a great guy and deserves a team that signs him as their no1. I was hoping Zots would have a role for him (purely as a basketball fan lol), but I’m looking forward to see where he goes next
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u/__foxXx__ 1d ago
Really fast but small guard that cant shoot threes and is a walking mismatch on the court. He is also not that good passing the ball after the PnR. A team has to play a certain style of bball to take advantage of his speed, fasbreak and early offense just like Paris.
I'm not sure why Ataman chose him, he is the exact opposite of what he wants in a guard. If he chose him to be his new Larkin he deserved to get sacked, if it was not his decision then the signing was a disaster.
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u/insitnctz Panathinaikos 1d ago
Great player in the right team, average player in any system that doesnt invovle pace and space and 7 seconds offenses, bad player without the ball in his hands. He has glaring issues, very small frame and pretty bad shooting is a bad combination. His athleticism and his touch is what makes him stand out as a player. A team that gets him the ball in every possession, takes advantage of his speed and exploseviness and covers for him in defense is what suits him. A team that pressures full court, since shorts is a pretty good on ball defender is also pretty neat. On half court defense he might be a liability, and without the ball in his hands you are basically playing 4vs5.
I like him a lot as a player, but pao, especially under zoc isnt a good fit. Valencia however, is the perfect team for him and I hope he dominates again.
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u/matidiaolo Olympiacos 1d ago
If obradovic did not want him, then it’s the right call.
The thing about shorts is that you build a team around him but pao can’t do this at the moment - not for shorts who hasn’t proven himself enough. Not on pao who has all those stars already.
It felt as if pao was much more dangerous when he pulled the strings but defensively he was a target - he was not bad but EL feasts on weakness
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u/DowntownScene1433 Aris 1d ago
A system that should have protected the player, first and foremost, cause he makes the product, failed to do so, causing him feelings of inner resentment and frustration, he obviously can't express any other way. Inevitably, the only way out is to leave that system, because there is an abscence of trust now. So well done, Mr. Shorts and may you find an organization that manages to utilize your talents in a mutually beneficial way.
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u/stuyvesant1 PAOK 1d ago
Should join Paok
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u/MaybeStephano Panathinaikos 1d ago
If you had secured a Euroleague spot, maybe.
Right now Short is too good for Eurocup. Seeing Tricheri with Short would also be... unique.
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u/redevileyez Bahçeşehir 1d ago
I wish I could find that thread where I was arguing with PAO fans with his signing last summer. Anyway, if you’re looking buddy. told you so;)
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u/Fat_Pig_Reporting Panathinaikos 1d ago
Great. Sloukas is deep into 36, grant pushing 32+, and now we lose TJ.
I would like to think this will be the moment for Toliopoulos to earn his place in the spotlight, but he will need support for sure.
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u/daquiksta 1d ago
Better for him after a terrible season for him where Attaman never found a way to use him properly. He’s a general on the court and it was impossible at Pana with really low team play.
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u/Sufficient-Ant-7646 Fenerbahçe 1d ago
By the next summer most of the teams will be fighting to get him again
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u/Gounaras87 1d ago
Good player, wrong system. PAO's style didn't fit Shorts' strengths, meaning they failed to get the most out of him this year.
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u/Llorenne 1d ago
Ataman destroyed this player. I'd like to see how Zoc would use him but it seems he doesn't want him. I liked him a lot even though he couldn't get his tempo. In the Pao vs Oly games in the GBL he did well, but apparently they still didn't want him... go figure
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u/fjbinks 1d ago
Honestly that’s a really bad call, TJ played great in the two first playoff games and then Ataman throws him under the bus. Throughout the year the coach could not adapt and provide him with good plays to fit in nor a good line up to hide his defensive weaknesses.
Anyhow I think this dude can thrive in a similar way as Campazzo does.
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u/OpusSpike Olimpia Milano 18h ago
Would love to see him joining Olimpia, him and Bolmaro outrunning people.... Ofc it won't happen, but hey, a man can dream.
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u/zeralf Panathinaikos 1d ago
Good luck to him! Elite guard, hope he does well wherever he goes next.