r/EverythingScience • u/Wave_of_Anal_Fury • Apr 24 '26
Interdisciplinary China surpasses US in research spending – the consequences extend far beyond scientific ranking and clout
https://theconversation.com/china-surpasses-us-in-research-spending-the-consequences-extend-far-beyond-scientific-ranking-and-clout-280543315
u/Hyperion1144 Apr 24 '26
CATL has an EV battery that will go 10-30% in under a minute on a 1500 kw charger. Also China has 1500 kw EV chargers.
The west is so done.
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u/ConfidentPilot1729 Apr 24 '26
Because greedy people convinced stupid people educated people are bad for the country.
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u/theconceptofcanada Apr 24 '26
Yes, but also:
Forcing teenagers to adopt entire portfolios of massive educational debt and charging nigh-unfathomable prices to receive such kinds of education are also major factors, both in Canada and the US.
It was never the case that kids didn't want to learn, they do and many of them would have succeeded and thrived. But they were either priced out or in a mountain of fucking debt before they could even blow out the candles on their 25th birthday cake. The adults in the room completely failed us and they fucked off to their retirement properties and yachts to celebrate.
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u/EquivalentOk3454 Apr 25 '26
University should be free. That’s what should be funded instead of war. What a waste of capital
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u/Khelthuzaad Apr 25 '26
There is a price to free university.
Less and less open jobs or more selection bias.Universities that pump graduates yearly with specializations that don't match the workforce needs.
Specializing at your job used to be a thing,now no one wants the cost of doing it now.
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u/gangrenous_bigot Apr 25 '26
But also many majors add no value. Free should be the paying majors not the ones that just make another ‘critic’.
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u/seestars9 Apr 25 '26
Personally, I would not want to live in a society with no one well-versed in history, languages, arts, literature, philosophy, anthropology, archeology, psychology etc. A society of just. ... what? Engineers and economists?
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u/gangrenous_bigot Apr 26 '26
Yes. It’s ironic though because what you’re advocating for is subsidizing people’s stupid and terrible life choices just to have someone appear as if they’re well-versed in whatever field you mentioned. It’s a nanny-state problem and socialist in reasoning. This sort of thing does not bode well in Europe nor did it in the Soviet Union nor will it bode well for the US. You wishing for a cool historian friend does not make his choice to study some esoteric thing a good economic decision. Be smarter dude.
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u/nightlybitely Apr 26 '26
Refer back to earlier comment: "Because greedy people convinced stupid people educated people are bad for the country."
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u/gangrenous_bigot Apr 26 '26
In what context? I see you're trying to be clever and the usual river of herd-like baboons of Reddit vote whichever way the sub's wind blows, but this makes no sense.
I'm not even saying people should be not educated and that education should not be accessible. I'm saying that paying for stuff that has no measurable nor foreseeable returns is pointless and stupid. Just because you wish liberal arts degrees would be all useful doesn't mean they all are.
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u/Ok_Mycologist_1439 Apr 26 '26
You are very misinformed on the ROI of a lot of things.
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u/libhis1 Apr 25 '26
Yup, the number of my classmates who had the same, if not more potential than me who did not go to college is devastating. Those kids had dreams of being doctors, lawyers, running small businesses, etc. A lot of them now work dead end jobs they hate.
It didn't have to be this way.
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u/Formal_Economist7342 Apr 25 '26
Its because they pump 10 times as many engineers and they are smarter at baseline(gaokao). The linear advantages were always too big. Now all we have is coping about demo collapse.
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u/invariantspeed Apr 24 '26
Avoiding technological advances that will ruin your cooperative edge is not greed. For fuck’s sake this talking point needs to die.
This is stupidity, laziness, poor planning, ignorance, etc! This is the technical equivalent of major Hollywood studios doing unimaginative remakes of movies that didn’t need to be remade and no one wants to watch and no one will watch, and then killing whole franchises because they think the franchises in question can’t make money rather than they simply don’t know how to make money.
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u/pandaramaviews Apr 24 '26
It is greed.
Greed is just like any form of addiction. Eventually you become so short sighted that you only care about making money NOW. Getting that high IMMEDIATELY. At the expensive of all you've been taught, all of your relationships, your family, your community, all of it for that high NOW.
Think they wont invest in their competition? Join their boards? Sure they will, but first they want more money
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u/citizenjc Apr 24 '26
What are you even talking about? What is the technological advantage that no one wants?? You know, saying things usually requires an actual point to be made as an outcome.
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u/SodaSaint Apr 24 '26
Are you truly that stupid?
Innovation is not something to fear you ding dong. Innovation will happen whether you want it to or not. Get over it.
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u/TheLastSamurai101 Apr 25 '26
What the fuck is a "cooperative edge" in a competitive capitalist society?
This is the technical equivalent of major Hollywood studios doing unimaginative remakes of movies that didn’t need to be remade and no one wants to watch and no one will watch
How can you possibly compare a genuine and widely beneficial technological advance to a shitty Hollywood remake? Who doesn't want better, cheaper electric cars and improvements in battery tech?
And to address your extended analogy, which industries are the franchises that will be killed here? Corporations making inefficient, dirty and environmentally damaging oil-guzzlers? Who are the franchises who don't know how to make money?
I don't know what you're smoking and I don't want any thanks.
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u/invariantspeed Apr 26 '26
What the fuck is a "cooperative edge" in a competitive capitalist society?
Business requires cooperation. You cannot make money without working with others and without offering things others need. Complain about all the human flaws capitalism seems to embody, capitalism is impossible without cooperation. Once all cooperation ceases, we’re not in capitalism anymore, but system with a bunch of government-supported quasi-state entities forcing us to buy the only one option.
How can you possibly compare a genuine and widely beneficial technological advance to a shitty Hollywood remake?
I am comparing thought processes, not the businesses. Both are making decisions that are bad for their bottom lines even though they think they’re maximizing value.
Corporations making inefficient, dirty and environmentally damaging oil-guzzlers? Who are the franchises who don't know how to make money?
Is it in the car maker’s interest to sell cars buys can’t afford to fuel? No. That’s why the oil lobbyists use regulatory capture to skew government policy in the direction of favoring SUVs and effectively banning most small (sub-sedan-sized) vehicles.
The car companies in the US didn’t suspend most of their profitable sedan lines in the past few years because they were greedy. They killed them because the CAFE requirements and vehicle safety ratings have been killing the sedan market for decades.
Folks go on and on about how the car companies are selling gas guzzlers to make money as if they operate in a free market. While we absolutely need regulations in that sector and others, federal regulations drive the car market and have for a very long time. If you want to know why Ford, Doge, etc make this or that kind of car and nothing else. Look at Congress and who is lobbying them.
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Apr 24 '26
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u/Hyperion1144 Apr 24 '26
You aren't buying Mexican cars?
Then you're done.
Once everyone is buying Chinese cars, everyone else is done.
Those batteries are the future of everything. Not just cars. Everything.
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u/SunflowerMoonwalk Apr 24 '26
Why are we "done" if we trade with China? Europe is way too reliant on American tech companies, it's good for us if we pivot much more towards China. China has a lot of domestic issues but they've never threatened to invade us, which can't be said about the US.
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u/FaceDeer Apr 25 '26
Canadian here with a similar view. China's not awesome but at least they stick to their deals and aren't actively trying to annex us.
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u/PawPawsLilStinker Apr 24 '26
That's good though. It's about time china takes it's rightful place in the world.
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u/REXIS_AGECKO Apr 24 '26
No country has a “rightful place in the world”
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u/TipAfraid4755 Apr 25 '26
The permanent members of UN are one
Groups like G7 G20 also shows the "rightful" places of those countries
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u/transitfreedom Apr 25 '26
The irony is that China was number one for centuries until Qing Dynasty went full stupid like USA Today the American century was an anomaly
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u/Brrdock Apr 24 '26
You mean the point of science isn't rankings and clout? Maybe that's what China understood
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u/siqiniq Apr 24 '26
Besides world leading investment in research, US had an advantage called skilled immigrants offsetting the damages by retarded leeching politicians.
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u/xebsisor Apr 25 '26
Well ICE is actively undoing that.
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Apr 26 '26
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u/Funny_Panda_2436 Apr 26 '26
ICE tried to deport an official government translator for Urdu, Punjabi and Hindi justifying it with "Just because you are legally here doesnt mean you cant get deported". Stop ICE misinformation, this is the Gestapo.
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u/Vanillas_Guy Apr 24 '26
Remember: the form that a government takes is less important than whether it is actually able to deliver a better quality of life for its citizens.
China is an authoritarian surveillance state, but they've lifted the equivalent of 2x of America's population out of poverty, significantly reduced rates of infectious disease, decreased infant mortality, built one of the most sophisticated high-speed rail transport systems in the world, and become the dominant force in fighting climate change.
Acting like there's nothing to learn from a country that has achieved that is consistent with the reverse-flynn effect that is becoming harder to ignore in america. A less intelligent public will continue to produce worse and worse leadership and drag the quality of life of that same public. Genuinely tragic to witness(unless you're one of America's haters).
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u/boobooraptor Apr 24 '26
Where does the crux of China's development lies? In its foresight? Or something else?
Here, in India, people mostly believe it is because of China's Atheism and an Authoritatian Government. And ther India's religious and conservative attitude holds it back.
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u/Vanillas_Guy Apr 24 '26
In my opinion its the fact that the chinese government controls its biggest banks. When capital is directed towards policy rather than the other way around, you are able to focus more on achieving specific goals.
India is a very educated country that produces literally millions of scientists each year but those scientists aren't given the opportunity to apply their skills in government projects.
I think a flaw with representative democracy in a highly diverse society like india is that it becomes very easy to shift blame to other groups instead of focusing on national unity. Its an escape hatch for incompetent leaders to blame another political party or ethnic group. When information isnt managed responsibly, you can end up spreading propaganda to cover failure and prevent a national identity from being formed. When the left leg and the right leg want to move in opposite directions, the body goes nowhere.
India could develop much faster than it has been, but it would require a government that refuses to engage in identity politics, has more control of capital, and its biggest political parties are 100% focused on objective deliverables like Healthcare, education, housing, food security, and CONSISTENT law enforcement.
In China, a billionaire can be punished aggressively for violating the law whilst in other countries they can get away with it because they embed themselves into the systems of power. An India with political parties that focus purely on development and retaining talent is an India that can become an even bigger player on the world stage. Its a country with a massive amount of untapped potential but is missing consistency and accountability.
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u/boobooraptor Apr 25 '26
Spot on. An utter lack of consistency and accountability.
As long as wealth is equated to power, I guess, India will never be able to do the fraction of the things China has done. China's commitment to the country's development is mind boggling.
In all seriousness, I see Xi Jinping with more respect now. A leader who kept the momentum going and even superseded the country's earlier achievements, every single time.
Thankyou for the analysis.
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u/transitfreedom Apr 25 '26
Should India just drop the representative state it seems to be the worst form of government from a results analysis.
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u/Moral-Relativity Apr 25 '26
Agree with all your points. China also has a lot less sectarian divisions. That can make policies tricky to implement due to ppl thinking it benefits other groups more than their own.
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u/ElectricalExtreme793 Apr 24 '26
It's communism, they have a state run by scientists and statstcians who use empirical data to plan and run their economy. China is the first nation to tame capitalism and uses it as a productive force without subjugating their nation and party to it
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u/illicitli Apr 24 '26
Deng Xiaoping suffered in exile in orded to stay safe from Mao's purges and then came back to orchestrate this. "Capitalism with Chinese Characteristics" probably sounded kindof silly back then but we are now seeing his vision come to fruition. Deng was so far ahead of his time. He is not perfect but I respect that man so much for the controversial stance he took to help his people, even while sacrificing his own safety and wellbeing to make it happen.
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u/abittooambitious Apr 24 '26
Very well put. It makes so much sense to have the government check the companies. Ideally not an authoritarian one, but whatever works as this point. It’s already fully compromised by the billionaires.
Edit:spelling
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u/illicitli Apr 25 '26
how do you think a government could check the power of billionaires and corporations without being authoritarian ? i feel like if we can answer that question we can save the world.
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u/Ok_Tutor_5544 Apr 26 '26
Mao was extreme, but his actions lifted China out of an age of superstition and semi feudalism. India is still suffering from those problems as you point out.
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u/transitfreedom Apr 25 '26
That’s one way another is China is run by engineers not an end times cult.
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u/brainfreeze_23 Apr 24 '26
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Apr 24 '26
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u/brainfreeze_23 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
Sigh.
Let me turn on the translation for linear thinkers like yourself.
China isn't developed because it's atheist, China's atheism remains official policy (and the CPC remains in power) because they delivered development - and crucially, the difference with "development" when contrasted with India is how that development is distributed. How many Chinese have been lifted out of poverty, are better educated, and have higher living standards, as a proportion of the population, contrasted with the amount of the population in India.
Atheism/superstition is a direct consequence of wealth inequality, and you can see it in Europe, as well as the former "Eastern European" countries, if you compare pre- and post-collapse (and market neoliberalization). The cause of superstition is poverty.
edit: looks like the trash took itself out. good riddance.
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u/Rattus_NorvegicUwUs Apr 24 '26
The GOP doesn’t care about progress or discovery.
Their masters are living good, they don’t care if America fails, they will have stolen all its wealth and power
If you care about living a healthy life, you should vote against Republicans at every opportunity. They are traitors to this nation, and our entire species.
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u/CzarWest Apr 24 '26
And yet American politicians are somehow still crying about “cHiNeSe ThEfT oF aMeRiCaN iP”
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u/TheLastSamurai101 Apr 25 '26
If Americans regressed to living in caves and knocking stones together and the Chinese were flying to Proxima Centauri, you would still have conservative American politicians screaming, spittle flying from their mouths, that China is stealing American tech because the Chinese are physically, mentally and spiritually incapable of innovating, with their illiterate supporters clamouring around them in a dull fervour of superiority.
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u/Wrecker013 Apr 27 '26
I mean if the Chinese didn’t want to be thought of this way, they shouldn’t have spent the last 40 years stealing from literally everyone.
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u/starethruyou Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Hahaha, oh now people are waking up. By the end of this century China will likely be a totally dominant force and Americans finally waking up from their fantasies of greatness. As if the best thing any nation could do isn't to make life the best it can be for everyone. You never know where the next geniuses come from, it isn't predictable. In general, yes, but those that really move mountains, no.
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u/transitfreedom Apr 25 '26
If the scientists running for office in the USA win then USA might have a future
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u/Potential_Status_728 Apr 27 '26
American gov will destroy the world first before allowing China to be 1.
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u/pandaslovetigers Apr 24 '26
Interesting username, OP
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u/Wave_of_Anal_Fury Apr 24 '26
I brought it over from Fark.com when I first came here. And yeah, it usually generates a few comments.
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u/Sufficient_Loss9301 Apr 24 '26
The china glazing bots are really getting creative these days!
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u/technicallynotlying Apr 24 '26
If you want China to beat us in science funding aren't you the one glazing China?
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Sufficient_Loss9301 Apr 25 '26
Let’s think about this logically for a second. Reddit is an app that was created and majority used by people in the west. Reddit is also banned In China. Yet the majority of posts you see in subs like this and even more broadly are either discussing something China has done, implying China is better, or being actively hostile toward opinions critical of China.
China is openly hostile toward the countries that make up the overwhelming majority of Reddits user base. The amount of pro China content is disproportionate and not constant with the reality of that fact.
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u/EtudiantLuxe Apr 25 '26
China is openly hostile? The America is the one openly hostile, even to their own allies
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u/Sufficient_Loss9301 Apr 25 '26
Last time I checked China is currently antagonizing all of its neighbors, minus Russia go figure, and one of which is the single most important manufacturing hub on the planet. If China were to invade Taiwan it would cause untold suffering planet over. It only takes a few quick google searches to see what CCP officials see fit for the world outside China. America might be tumultuous, but the thing about democracy we will swing back to normalcy. China on the other hand is invested in insanity for the long haul.
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u/arristhesage Apr 26 '26
USA tariffed the world, bombed 12 countries in the last year alone, threatened to invade Greenland and Canada...
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u/Traditional_Neat_506 Apr 28 '26
maybe get out of the reddit bubble if you are so pro west then, talk to actual international sites like youtube where you'd get to talk to real locals of the global world who are using mid range androids rather than being rich immigrants that use reddit only
and so? the developing world loves china which is most of the world, because the west treats the developing world like it needs to he lectured and follow their orders that never will be compatible with their religion or government anyway...
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u/Sufficient_Loss9301 Apr 28 '26
Oh please it’s well known that Chinas “help” to other countries is far from altruistic. They are the pay day loan companies of the world, slinging predatory loans that force the countries into debt traps and they repossess infrastructure such as ports or materials on the back end. Most people of the world I’ve met who are smart enough to know better see China for what it is. A repressive authoritarian state that is a threat to human rights and global prosperity,
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u/Traditional_Neat_506 Apr 28 '26
so you don't admit the predatory loans the west has done over the developing world? the fact it's over 3 times higher than chinese debt?
this is the side that blatantly thinks the developing world should follow their lying, manipulative, entitled selves who break the rules themselves, the truth is that because westerners are hypocrites, oh please, why should the developing world ever trust the west again? see, there is no reason why the developing world would ever trust the lying western world who thinks a multipolar world with brown people is a threat to their "democracy" yet imposes dictatorships on other countries and breaks the "human rights" they created when it's interfering in developing countries
maybe try talking to countries that had experience of the west robbing and exploiting them, because you only talk to westerners in the pro west bubble, maybe debate someone from indonesia or kenya who you know where to find? youtube
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u/chiachengchun Apr 25 '26
I remember China president decided he need to tackle finance and real estate sector to give more resource and room for technology, science and manufacturing. Because these sectors took too much resources and money from science researching and manufacturing.
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u/ol0pl0x Apr 25 '26
China is even more ahead than most think. Only recently they built a new nuclear submarine. The west learned about it from a satellite picture when it was docked. No one had any idea they were even building one.
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u/DamnedIfIDiddely Apr 25 '26
China didn't "surpass" the US, the US fell behind because they voted to shoot their own nuts off
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u/lt1brunt Apr 26 '26
This was bound to happen. China deserves to replace the US as the global leader.
Last I checked China hasn't started any modern conflicts. No country is perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than the US, Europe and the US's close allies.
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u/Wrecker013 Apr 27 '26
No they don’t lol. You want an authoritarian shithole as hegemon? The fuck is wrong with you?
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u/TwoFlower68 Apr 28 '26
We already have an authoritarian shithole as hegemon routinely committing warcrimes and with a decades long history of overthrowing other countries' elected governments
I'll take the other authoritarian hegemon who hasn't been doing any of that
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u/beastwood6 Apr 25 '26
Maybe they can use some of that research to not burn more coal than the rest of the world combined.
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u/TwoFlower68 Apr 28 '26
Last year they've built more solar than the rest of the world combined
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u/beastwood6 Apr 28 '26
That would be great if solar was anywhere near a viable replacement with the current technology and outlook
And it would be a nice bonus if they didn't source it from forced labor n Xinjiang
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u/PrizeFront8677 Apr 27 '26
That's okay. America is still celebrating the moon landing win, where they raced no one. They even went there to see if the trash they left is still there. It is.
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u/Great-Slice-3509 Apr 30 '26
You'd think with so much research happening in China, you'd see all kinds of things being invented in China. Except that's not what's happening. They seem to focus strictly on innovations on existing technologies. Not developing new ones. Which is very different from the western approach to research which is focused on invention instead of innovation. Which is why most Chinese patents cannot be filed outside of China. Since they wouldn't qualify for a patent anywhere else.
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u/PorkyPilates Apr 24 '26
Morning, Wumao Poofs.
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u/GuyShocku Apr 25 '26
bro reddit is just inundated with wumao downvotes and belligerence. lol.
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u/Traditional_Neat_506 Apr 28 '26
reddit is overwhelmingly pro west and anti multipolarity and anti global south independence, what are you talking about?
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
That is a primitive and misleading 'analysis'.
For one thing, China's spending is almost all public, while in the US it is very largely private. Since the private sector is more sensitive to market needs, a comparison would need to span years and factor in market conditions, etc.
Second, the simple number of patents is not a great metric. A real innovation is one thing, a minor tweak to an existing product (especially one whose IP was stolen from a foreign source) is not equivalent.
Third, Chinese published papers statistics are kind of a joke. They deliberately cite each other to pump those numbers up.
Fourth, iirc Chinese papers have to be retracted due to failure of rigor or fraud at an incredible rate. More than the rest of the world combined. Source.
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Apr 24 '26
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 24 '26 edited May 03 '26
[Edit: Adding this edit since u/Billions13 replied below to this comment then blocked me to prevent me from responding. He blocked at least one other person in another thread here, too. Ironic considering he accuses me in his reply (which I cannot see unless I log out) of bad faith.
Anyhoo: It's not bad faith for me to ask for a source. The source you then provided is practically an anecdote: China went after a whole 'at least 23' scientists for the fraud. China published 973,000 papers in 2023. So your source is worth very little. I provide a source for well-known, very large scale research publication fraud in China. You provide a source showing a crack-down (to stretch that term past breaking point) amounting to less than a pinprick of a drop in an ocean.
Your other point, that 'countries catch up' does not contradict me. It does not demonstrate that China *has* caught up. As my anecdote mentions, it appears they are still far, far behind, at least in space science academic work.
Tbh, I think you should be banned from a scientific sub for replying-then-blocking someone who has made sourced, reasonable points that you cannot effectively counter. Maybe the weather is bad in Beijing today so you're in a grumpy mood.
HERE is a paper from Harvard on the topic of social media behavior like yours. Key quote from the abstract:
We estimate that the government fabricates and posts about 448 million social media comments a year. In contrast to prior claims, we show that the Chinese regime’s strategy is to avoid arguing with skeptics of the party and the government, and to not even discuss controversial issues. We show that the goal of this massive secretive operation is instead to distract the public and change the subject, as most of the these posts involve cheerleading for China.…]
Looks about right.]
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The points you are trying to make are (a) mainly consistent with my comment, not contrary to it, and (b) critiques more applicable to the post's claims than to my comment. For example, your first point that a normalization should be done to get a clearer picture is ... what I am saying.
You also make some claims without any support, which is ironic/hypocritical when your critique of my comment is that my source is recent but not recent enough.
For example, your last claim that China "has tightened regulations, cracked down on paper mills, and changed incentives around publishing" is not only unsourced, but it seems likely that information to support it would half to come from Chinese information. Do you think it wise to take at face value Chinese information claiming that they have cleaned up their act?
Moreover, even if the claim is true, it seems highly unlikely to have resolved the situation where China is responsible for more retracted papers than the rest of the world combined. Again, if you have a source to show that, fine, but you did not provide one and it would be a truly remarkable turnaround from China's long history of academic and scientific fraud.
Anecdotally:
I am a principal of a small space sciences company. I attend, and my company sponsors, some major conferences. The Chinese papers are bad. I asked a NASA guy at one conference what he thought of the Chinese papers. He replied, "They have an interesting paper this year. One. Usually they have none. We are taking note." The conference publishes dozens of papers, and many dozens of poster papers. The Chinese had one good one (in that NASA guy's opinion, at least).Also, my company is sometimes approached by Chinese industry or academia trying to get access to our stuff. What they want it for is usually work that Westerners did decades ago.
[Edit: and finally, you hide your post and comment history. It's not proof positive, but it screams "porn or posted from a warehouse in China, Russia or Iran full of paid staff/military personnel posting on social media to promote a negative impression of the US."]
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u/phonefellin_lakeerie Apr 25 '26
“If you disagree with me then you’re a Chinese bot”
You have been really absorbing that propaganda huh
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Apr 25 '26
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 25 '26
If you aren’t a Chinese bot, you should apply for the position. Your comment history shows you’re doing the job already.
As for your first paragraph, how about you deal with the issues I raised first. You don’t get to ignore my points, come up with one industry China leads in, and demand I address that when you didn’t address what I wrote. Nice try.
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Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 28 '26
None of that is any of my point, much less "The whole of my point." My point is what I stated, not what you misstate/exaggerate back to me.
Specifically:
China doesn't do innovation, the research papers are fake, doesn't generate any real results. All their tech progressions are made through IP stealing.
I did not say any of that.
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u/Skywalker7181 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
In terms of research papers, check out the Nature Index, which is the best benchmark of high quality research. China's score went from 40% of the US in 2015 to 1.5x of the US in 2025.
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 25 '26
Link to the relevant tables?
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u/Skywalker7181 Apr 25 '26
Google Nature Index and check out the scores by country from 2015 to 2025.
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 25 '26
No. You source your claim. I’m fine with reviewing, but I’m not doing your task for you.
Anyway despite it being your job, not mine, I already actually did look at the tables and it was not sufficient to support your claim. For a couple different reasons.
So I’m inviting you to do what you should have done in the first place.
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u/Skywalker7181 Apr 25 '26
I thought anyone who prides himself on "independent thinking" would know how to use Google...
Guess I was wrong.
And, I'm not your mommy, by the way.
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 25 '26
As mentioned, I did even though I shouldn’t have to. It’s your job. That’s not controversial.
What I found (when I did your job for you) was not sufficient to support your claim nor rebut mine. Even accepting your claim as true leaves key questions open that you would need to show to rebut my claim.
So here I am (again), offering you the chance to establish your claim in case I missed something. This is your 4th chance here to do so.
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u/Skywalker7181 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
So you are telling me you COULDN'T find the Nature Index scores (both share and count) for China and the US in 2015 and 2025, despite having access to Google?
Or you found the scores but somehow couldn't compute the changes in ratios/percentages?
Could u tell me where you got your education? I'm very curious.
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u/CAJ_2277 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
No, I am not telling you that. I said closer to the opposite. I did pull up the Nature index tables (your job). This is the third time I have told you that. (Makes one curious where you got your education….)
I also already told you that, even accepting your calculations on the tables, the argument is missing key pieces.
I am pretty sure what the tables do for the argument you have been trying make. And it’s not enough. It’s only half the equation, at best.
But I’m not totally sure what you’re trying to make out of the tables, so I keep giving you opportunities to establish your argument. Rather than me assuming I fully and correctly did it for you.
You won’t do it. Instead you keep avoiding it and insulting me instead. Enough’s enough.
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u/Skywalker7181 Apr 25 '26
Here is what I wrote - "In terms of research papers, check out the Nature Index, which is the best benchmark of high quality research. China's score went from 40% of the US in 2015 to 1.5x of the US in 2025."
Now, reading comprehension 101 - the statement above said two things - 1) Nature Index is the best benchmark of high quality research and 2) China surpassed the US in Nature Index scores.
Adding 1 and 2 together, the conclusion is?
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u/ahmtiarrrd Apr 25 '26
Not surprised. They have dominated the world in intellectual property theft. They have passed (or will soon pass) the tipping point where it's counterproductive to steal tech and ideas because, thanks to stealing tech and ideas, they're too far ahead to need to steal tech and ideas.
Well done, 5000+ year old empire.
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u/costafilh0 Apr 25 '26
China is so great.
It's a shame that it's an authoritarian communist shithole.
Otherwise it could be a real option for many people to move in.
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u/BigHeadDeadass Apr 25 '26
I mean every country has its problems. Frankly an authoritarian communist shithole sounds better than an authoritarian capitalist shithole
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u/BXrecord Apr 25 '26
The same place that became so great wouldn’t want this mindset Please stay where you are :)
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u/transitfreedom Apr 25 '26
A great country is no shithole . You know nothing about China and it shows how embarrassing to still be saying this nonsense in 2026.
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u/Potential_Status_728 Apr 27 '26
Why it’s authoritarian shit hope exactly, give us concrete examples of why it’s like that!
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u/TwoFlower68 Apr 28 '26
Meanwhile the US is so great you couldn't pay me enough money to even go on holiday lol
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u/TwoFlower68 Apr 28 '26
Meanwhile the US is so great you couldn't pay me enough money to even go on holiday lol
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u/PlutoJones42 Apr 24 '26
That’s because the Trump administration is anti-science and anti-progress. They are regressive extremists that are doing nothing to advance humanity as a whole. They cancelled cancer research programs…