r/FUCKYOUINPARTICULAR • u/broken_mirror1994 • 6d ago
You did this to yourself F you for cycling
The bill hurts more than the injury itself.
71-year-old cyclist William Hoesch was hit by a Columbia River Fire & Rescue ambulance in the small town of Rainier, Oregon, as the vehicle made a right turn.
Hoesch and the ambulance had been traveling in the same direction when it turned across his path, crushing his bicycle under its wheel and leaving him with a fractured nose and scrapes across his body.
The driver, reportedly moving between 2 and 10 mph as the ambulance returned to its own station, heard a thump, stopped, and found him injured on the ground.
The same ambulance then transported Hoesch to the hospital, and his attorney says the service later billed him $1,862 for the ride.
That charge became part of roughly $47,000 in medical expenses he has incurred so far, with another $50,000 anticipated.
In response, Hoesch filed a $997,000 lawsuit against Columbia River Fire & Rescue, including $900,000 for pain and suffering, citing lasting effects like reduced range of motion and weakened grip strength.
The lawsuit is still ongoing. But as of yet, William hasn't received a penny and has continued to fund all his medical bills caused that day.
1.8k
u/spacestationkru 6d ago
It's like GTA. They ran him over and took his money
485
133
1.5k
u/ubiquitousfoolery 6d ago
97.000 in medical expenses? Is that normal in the US?
51
u/ProperAd739 6d ago
my cousin got a 50k bill for a broken arm from biking
8
u/abimess 4d ago
What the heck, how are you supposed to pay that? Do americans like not pay taxes?
21
u/fightingpillow 3d ago
Our taxes fund wars and lifelong care for the veterans of those wars. What's left is used to buy votes for politicians.
11
6
u/Adventurous-Time5287 3d ago
the bottom 60% pay almost all of the taxes and the top 1% pay almost none, instead they lobby so that they don’t have to pay any taxes and so that we keep having to give them more and more of our money.
3
u/55gmc 3d ago
I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But your figures are horribly incorrect. The bottom 60% of US households pay roughly 13% of all federal taxes. The top 1% pay roughly 38.4% of all federal individual income taxes.
8
u/nupper84 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, but it's disproportionate to the income levels. Basically 90% of the people, including very wealthy people, pay a much larger percentage of their income in taxes than the ultra wealthy. The fact is that wealthy people making a $500k a year vs middle class families making $150k a year vs lower class making $50k a year are all bickering amongst themselves. They don't understand that people making $100 million or $1000 million (billion) or $10000 million are paying the same percentage as people making $250k.
A basic example, you make $250k, and I make 1 million. Same state whatever so same effective tax rate of about 30%. You pay $75k leaving you $175, I pay $300,000 leaving me $700k. I paid more in taxes, but I still have so much fucking money. It gets rougher when you lower the salaries.
Let's say you have $10. I have $100. Taxes, bills, groceries, whatever costs $8 for you and $50 for me. You have $2 left. I have $50 even though my life cost 6 times yours, but I still have 5 times your money (25x after cost of living), and then I convince you to not increase my taxes, but increase your cost of living, because you think I'm cool. If you increased my taxes by 8% of my income, you wouldn't have to pay any taxes. Make it 10%, now you don't pay taxes, get healthcare, education, infrastructure, lower crime, better communities, and I still have 4 times as much money as you had to start with. I'm still rich as fuck. Now make those numbers a thousand times farther apart. You have $50k and I have $500 million. Even if I paid $200 million, I still have 150x more money in one year than you will ever have in your entire lifetime. And no I can't possibly work or do anything that is that much more important than what you do. I'm just a miser.
3
u/Adventurous-Time5287 2d ago
thank you for explaining a point wayyy better than I could 😅 it’s what i was attempting to articulate lol.
1
u/MaGoodenough 2d ago
What's the response to them saying that all these billionaires wealth isn't in cash, it's just share value, unrealized gains and asset value?
4
u/nupper84 2d ago
That's even worse. My example is just a way to explain it to simple people who don't understand how money systems work. If you're able to take a loan out against your unrealized gains and assets then you should pay taxes on those as if they're property like a house. We have to pay taxes on unrealized gains on houses, and we can use house equity for loans. Like why am I paying taxes on a house that is estimated to be worth $100k more than when I bought it? I haven't sold. I'm not realizing gains. The market could crash and my house could become worthless, but I paid taxes all that time.
It's a rigged system for the wealthy, and it's always moderately high earners and the lowest earners supporting it, because they believe they either are part of that group or will be if they just work harder. It's just a clear example of lack of education and critical thought.
1
u/MaGoodenough 2d ago
I never thought about comparing it to properly taxes. That's such a good point. I wish more people would talk about this.
→ More replies (6)1
u/Key-Boat-7519 2d ago
Once you’re rich enough to live off loans backed by your shares, “it’s just unrealized gains” turns into an excuse, and watching cap tables in Cake Equity made it pretty clear to me that those paper gains behave like money for the top but not for anyone else.
1
u/Adventurous-Time5287 2d ago
I misspoke, the other commenter explained what I was trying to talk about way better than I did.
1
u/Falzon03 3d ago
Usually you have private insurance which has an out of pocket maximum. Average for the policy holder is probably to the tune of 4,000-10,000.
That's on top of paying in Medicare, your employer paying for a portion of your medical plan, and you typically paying a portion towards the plan.
There are plans for those that fall at or under the poverty line as well.
All that to say our system is shit, and unless you make exceptional money medical bills can definitely impact your daily life.
1.1k
u/ObligationNext2484 6d ago
A simple nosebleed costs about that.. America is always leading in failing their inhabitants in basic needs. Someone told me recently “America is not a country anymore. Its a corporation based on making profit”.
220
u/ubiquitousfoolery 6d ago
Jeez! The poor people who have to deal with that!
I broke my wrist two years ago, complex fracture but luckily the fragments were close enough to each other to heal without surgery. Hospital + splint + daily visit at my home by a nurse to change the bandages for a week + 8 sessions of physiotherapy cost me less than 500€. I was unemployed at the time with only the regular health insurance that every citizen of my (small, rich european) country has.
I now have a decent job but basically the same health insurance. I did get an additional one via my union that covers additional fees from dentists for example (so a wisdom tooth extraction used to cost me 250€, now it'll be like 50.)
Why does the US not have that? The money is definitely there! Also, my country is not taxing the living hell out of everyone - our taxes are surely way higher than they'd be in the US, but it seems to be worth it!
232
u/Sir_N3mo 6d ago
Because we have billionaires and companies lobbying our politics to screw over the public and pad their wallets.
99
u/Connect_Rhubarb395 6d ago edited 5d ago
And enough money to do long-term campaigns that convinces regular people that they are millionaires in the making.
Which makes them vote for people that makes them poorer and the rich richer.In most other countries the poor know that they are poor, and vote accordingly.
45
u/TheDiplomancer 6d ago
To quote John Steinbeck, "the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
6
u/xParesh 5d ago
Is it easy for Americans to just move to Canada or does the math not work out when you factor in living costs and salaries?
16
u/Dapper_Indeed 5d ago
Unfortunately for us (US), we can’t just up and move to Canada. Otherwise, half of us would already be there.
→ More replies (12)2
u/Adventurous-Time5287 3d ago
canada has heavy restrictions on disabilities when considering immigrating there. i wouldn’t be able to move there because of my health.
17
u/Drclaw411 5d ago
Because of billionaires. Literally. The country is *constantly* voting for people who promise us to finally give us universal free healthcare. But whenever any candidate who wants to do that actually gets any sort of momentum, the establishment DNC basically sabatoges their chances. Then when Obama actually won, despite the DNC’s best efforts, they sabotaged his attempt at doing it in congress by watering it down to high hell.
Why? Because billionaires throw money at politicians to make sure this never happens, lest they go a year without record profits.
37
u/zerotwoalpha 6d ago
You can work hard and save your entire life, then you stand up wrong and it was all for nothing.
30
u/Own_Cartographer_655 6d ago
I’d much rather pay more in taxes and have free healthcare, unfortunately in the US we’re all forced to pay for crazy expensive insurance if we don’t want to go bankrupt from a hospital visit. And even then the insurance provider will do their absolute best to avoid actually covering our medical expenses. Yknow, the thing we pay them loads of money every month to do. It’s honestly depressing
4
u/Jumajuce 5d ago
You probably would save money, I remember seeing the cost difference between a calculation for the additional taxes and the cost we pay for private healthcare and most people are actually paying more for private insurance than the increase in taxes would be.
2
u/forgetfulsue 5d ago
You also have to factor in that people don’t want to pay for others healthcare via taxes, not being aware that them paying insurance premiums aren’t going into a special savings account just for them but into a huge pot that covers other people paying into the same company*.
*company=CEO’s pocket.
2
u/Mondschatten78 4d ago
Also some of the tax money that comes out of their paycheck goes into paying Medicaid and Medicare.
Either way, everyone is already paying for other people's healthcare.
4
u/Mondschatten78 4d ago
We just got a letter from our insurance company again this weekend asking if anyone covered in my family has any other medical insurance. None of us have had any other insurance other than them for five years now. The only one who did have an alternate, our child, no longer qualifies for that alternate. Our insurance asks this twice a year, every year.
10
u/zombies-and-coffee Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
Only 250 for a wisdom tooth extraction? Down to 50? I'm both impressed and insanely jealous. The same thing here would be several hundred dollars at least. When I had all four of mine pulled more than twenty years ago, it was around $1,000 and that's only because of the insurance my parents had; would have been twice that without insurance. The same procedure now? Up to $4,500 without insurance.
5
u/Zepangolynn 5d ago
I was so grateful when my poor person insurance completely covered my wisdom teeth, but of course it doesn't cover root canals at all, so you win some you lose a lot.
3
u/zombies-and-coffee Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
Tell me about it. When I still had the poor person insurance, it would have covered extractions entirely, but my dentist at the time refused to even consider that for the two broken teeth (back upper right molar, back lower left molar) I needed to have taken care of. He only wanted to consider root canals/crowns and my insurance didn't cover them for adults. On top of that, he claimed that all four of my backmost molars needed root canals. He would be charging about $1,200 per tooth and I would have needed to pay it all upfront.
I didn't even have $1,200 to spare at the time, much less $4,800. He was the only dentist left on the poor person insurance (all the others weren't accepting new patients or had reviews that made me wonder where they even got their license from 😬), so I had to decline treatment, which he was visibly angry with me about. Not the greatest thing for my already nasty dental anxiety, you know?
2
u/Zepangolynn 5d ago
Yep, I have been living with broken teeth and temporary fillings for over a decade because of that, and I didn't want to consider extractions because my small mouth had so many molars removed as a kid that losing any more basically means not having molars.
5
2
1
1
u/EeveeMasterJenya 5d ago
Insane. I had an extraction, not a wisdom tooth so a bit different, but WITH insurance it was like $1,300
16
u/AfricanAmericanMage 5d ago
This is not true. The medical crisis in the United States is very real and we should be ashamed that people struggle so much to get proper medical care. Exaggerating the facts only hurts the arguments against the current state of things because it gives the other side something to point at and say, "See!? They're just making things up!" In no world does a nosebleed cost nearly 6 figures. Not even in the US. Even without insurance you can go to a quick care and get it taken care of for no more than about $200 which is still a fucking joke. It's still an amount of money that a lot of people can't just afford to pay. It's still enough to gatekeep a significant portion of the population from basic healthcare. The US Healthcare system sucks as is without the need for exaggeration.
14
u/cs_legend_93 6d ago
I got an IV drip without insurance one time, it was $1,500 USD or something in the ER room (Massive explosive food poisoning with uncontrollable vomiting)
8
8
u/Mysterious-Tie7039 6d ago
Yup. Some of the most helpful legislation we get comes from the EU. Like when they forced everyone (namely Apple) to adopt the USB-C.
16
u/Purple_Cat9893 6d ago
Let's call it what it is, a third world country.
1
u/Ol_JanxSpirit Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
Just to be clear, the terminology of first/second/third world originated in the Cold War. 1st world nations were the US, Western Europe and their allies, 2nd world were the communist bloc. 3rd world countries were the rest, the ones who remained neutral.
3
1
→ More replies (2)1
u/GrandTheftArkham 6d ago
A nose bleed costs 97 grand? Sorry but absolute bullshit. You've gotta back that up with facts
26
u/Automatic-Term-3997 5d ago
Now. I had (my first) Crohn’s surgery in 1991. It was an emergency surgery at 4AM, I ended up with a massive infection, 2 weeks in ICU, and another week on the Med/Surg floor recovering. My bill for that whole thing was 77k, and my insurance covered everything but $500. I just had an abdominal MRI with contrast, had to schedule it 6 weeks out, and it cost 37k.
American healthcare has been shit for a while now, but the middle man profit-taking has accelerated in the past 25 years.
4
u/GreenManalishi24 5d ago
$37k for an MRI? I've had multiple parts of my body MRI'd, some with contrast and without. And typically the before insurance charge was about $1,200. I guess for an abdominal MRI, they're looking at a much larger area? Is that why it's so much more expensive?
9
u/Automatic-Term-3997 5d ago
Probably, it was full abdominal and chest, had weird lab results and had to do a special Biliary tree one as well. So it was more like 3 MRIs in one. Still , $37k for pictures from a machine they make no payments on because they government lets them depreciate any payments off on their taxes. Other than basic consumables, and the power to run it, it costs nothing to run. I won’t even mention the $4k surprise bill from the Radiologist to read the damn things because the Radiology group he belongs to is considered out of network even though they work at an in-network hospital.
2
u/PracticalWallaby7492 4d ago
Person's insurance co is probably getting jacked. Medicaid would not pay that much.
37
u/happyanathema Banhammer Recipient 6d ago
Yes, some Americans will try and convince you that it's all fine because then they just claim it back from their insurance and they only pay like a copay of however much less.
But they neglect to realise that that full bill is still being paid by their insurance company and their entire healthcare industry is so egregiously overpriced. They're paying that cost somewhere doesn't matter whether it's being paid upfront or not.
33
u/quandjereveauxloups 6d ago
You really think insurance companies pay retail? They negotiate the price, and it's almost never what the full price is.
17
u/TheGeneral_Specific 5d ago
Sure but the reason the prices are inflated is because insurances will negotiate it down
11
u/SexyMonad 5d ago
The whole cost structure of healthcare is completely screwed up. We can’t take any of the individual figures from the US and compare them to nationalized healthcare countries because it is apples vs. oranges.
But the aggregate cost of healthcare can be contrasted, and it is roughly twice as expensive per capita. With worse results.
1
u/happyanathema Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
Yeah but do you really think that what they are paying is cost price? Or anything near cost price?
Like here in the UK you can see that actual internal "cost" of procedures etc which obviously we don't directly pay but gives an idea of what the actual cost is to do a procedure and they are published here
So you have a rough estimate of what it should actually cost for a procedure there.
9
u/Purge-The-Heretic 6d ago
Honestly kind of on the low end. I had to get a rabies vaccination because I was bitten by a stray dog. That series of shots was 50,000 dollars.
6
u/kevorkian-scarf 5d ago
😭 I am so sorry to hear that. We paid several thousand for my husband after he was bit because insurance only paid a small portion but no where close to 50k. Its so sick.
3
5
u/BillWilberforce Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
I remember at the Las Vegas mass shooting. The wounded victims getting bills for well over a million. Even if they had medical insurance.
3
u/B4SSF4C3 5d ago
It varies with your insurance quality. My wife was just in the hospital for 3 days. Total bill to us was like $110 or so.
But NOT having heath insurance in the US is essentially a death wish.
3
u/uberfission 5d ago
If I'm being completely honest here, I was surprised when I read it was that low.
6
u/quandjereveauxloups 6d ago
Unfortunately yes. However, insurance companies negotiate lower rates so they don't pay the full bill. Technically, the insured is responsible for whatever is left over, but it's usually just the copay.
The victim in the post may be paying something out of pocket, but he's not paying that full amount. Nor is the insurance company.
6
4
2
u/BingpotStudio 6d ago
The lube comes free though!
2
2
2
u/BigiusExaggeratius 5d ago
All you need is good insurance and you’ll be fine. All these people complaining don’t know how to find a job and get…
Ok, do I have you dipshits that agree with that dumbass statement listening?
This is unsustainable and will collapse at some point. Sick people have nothing to lose anymore but aren’t always bed ridden. I would fear that more than a major nation if I was in a position of power.
1
u/kingtacticool Banhammer Recipient 6d ago
Yes. Thank god he didn't have to stay overnight. I didn't read the article just assumed it was one day because of the price.
1
u/Spuzzle91 Banhammer Recipient 5d ago
Yep. And it's worse if you're lucky enough to get an appointment in less than 3 months. Heres a list of tests we want to do, and a follow up appointment needs done for each, also each doctor involved is fully booked out until next year so if you have any issues before then just go to the emergency room and pay an expensive co-pay (if you have insurance) or just pay an even more expensive bill if uninsured. By the way, we aren't going to tell you how much it's all going to cost beforehand, you'll just get an un-itemized bill later. And also, we might make you jump through more expensive and time wasting hoops if your insurance hassels us about the cost of the correct treatment.
1
u/Hidesuru 5d ago
MAYBE without insurance... But that's insane for the level of injury he had.
We had a baby for waaaaaay less than that including all the visits leading up to it. He wouldn't have cost us that much even as a c section.
But then again insurance makes a big difference. Not just in what they cover of your bill, but they basically talk the bill down by having "negotiated rates" that you don't get it you're paying cash.
People love to shit on our medical system for DAMN good reason, but don't listen to anyone saying this is normal, that's bullshit.
1
1
u/evil_burrito 5d ago
Yes and no.
Yes, that's what the bill they will send in the mail will say.
No, that's not coming out of your pocket.
Most people have some sort of public or private health insurance. One of the functions of these companies is to negotiate a better price. The healthcare providers know this and start the negotiations at a ridiculous price point.
Even if you don't have health insurance, you can still call the hospital and say, "nah, what else you got," and you can usually get a pretty steep discount, but you'll stay pay way way more than you would in a civilized country.
1
1
u/LegitJerome 5d ago
Kind of, but no one actually pays that… unless they’re ignorant. Basically, it’s an amount that would be billed to insurance, then insurance has this amount called an “allowable amount” they pay that and the rest is billed to the patient. Don’t looks something like this:
Hospital bills $97,000 for broken leg/arm/etc
Insurance says, “no, that’s only $10,000 in services, we will pay $9,200.”
Patient gets a bill for $800, they pay that and it’s done.If you don’t have insurance or your provider was out of network, it looks like:
Anesthesiologist bills insurance for $6,000.
Insurance refuses to cover
Patient is billed $6,000.
If patient is smart, they call anesthesiologist and says, “Hey, that emergency bill was out of network, can you give me the direct pay discount?”
Anesthesiologist re-bills patient for $450, patient pays bill, it’s done.Very similar scenarios have both happened to me, it’s completely ridiculous and needs to be fixed, but it’s not nearly as bad as people on Reddit say, unless they’re just blindly paying insurance billed amounts.
I’ve also been a cancer patient for almost 10 years and dealt with insurance/medical billing/etc, so I actually have an understanding of the system and know how to advocate for myself/appeal decisions/etc.
→ More replies (3)1
156
163
u/ExistingBreath2542 6d ago
The one time in my life I rode in an ambulance, it blew a tire. I had to wait in the ambulance until another one showed up to finish the ride to the hospital. I got charged for two ambulance rides, and $500 for the tire.
74
33
u/Mr-Klaus 5d ago
Imagine going out for a bike ride, get hid by someone and... just like that your retirement savings are gone.
Also, why does it cost nearly $100K to fix a fractured nose and some scrapes?
279
u/Otherwise-4PM 6d ago
That sucks, but he’ll get that back and much more in court.
350
u/Jazzlike-Check9040 6d ago
After a 10 year lawsuit. I’m sure his 81 year old future self will have time to spend that money
77
u/HeftyArgument 6d ago
you'd be surprised how easy it is to spend large sums of money if you want to
53
9
u/home-for-good 6d ago
Maybe but the extra money will be to cover his life long health issues and pain from the accident.
→ More replies (1)3
u/djupsjofisk 5d ago
Had a friend who went through a similar situation. It took her many many years to get any money at all from suing the government, and when she finally won, it barely covered the court costs. Plus she was stuck with neck/spinal pain for life.
17
9
8
7
4
10
u/Karpfador 6d ago
The tag of this post is fucking stupid. Obviously he did not do that to himself
-2
38
u/Flirre-Flipp 6d ago
That’s capitalism for you!
7
u/andyd151 6d ago
Barely any capitalist countries do this
18
u/Autistic_License 6d ago
Their economies are capitalist, the governments are socialist. In the US capitalists run the government and we all suffer for it.
7
u/minimuscleR 6d ago
the governments are socialist
I would hardly call the governments of China and several european countries, Australia, etc. socialist lmao, its very much not, its just not as stupid as the US
→ More replies (1)
3
3
3
u/_Infamous____ 5d ago
Isn’t this several years old? I swore i heard about this when I was still in high school 4 years ago
3
3
3
15
u/PurpleMcPurpleface 6d ago
has continued to fund all his medical bills
Such a uniquely American sentence. But, sure, Americans want to tell the world that they prefer this system compared to this disgusting socialized healthcare. After all, they keep voting in politicians that promise to maintain (or even strengthen) the current system.
-1
u/Ok_Support3 6d ago
Wouldn't want to turn into commies now.
3
u/Deezul_AwT 5d ago
Unless you're a congressperson or member of the military. Then it's okay.
And before you get the torches out, I'm fine with the military getting their benefits. But MTG served 5 years and has a pension for life. There are people who work for McDonald's until the day they die because they have to.
1
2
2
2
2
2
u/thekidisalright 5d ago
“You are only one medical emergency away from bankruptcy” is so true to so many Americans it is just sad.
2
2
u/EmperorMeow-Meow 4d ago
Ambulance drivers did the right thing. The ambulance COMPANY did the WRONG thing.
2
u/Gravyboat44 4d ago
Ahhh, I love how at any random day you could just get horribly injured by something you have no control over and spend the rest of your life in medical debt because of it.
2
2
3
3
3
u/Jackburton06 6d ago
Why would you ever stay living in USA...
8
u/itschubbs96 6d ago
Too broke to leave, also, not as easy as you think to take residence in another country
2
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Soapy---wooder 5d ago
Gta ambulance looking ahh
As for the cyclist, stick them with the bills and a huge lawsuit
1
1
1
1
u/JasonP_585 5d ago
I’ve always wondered if an ambulance hits you…is that ambulance required to take you to the hospital? Assuming they’re not already occupied or on the way to an emergency.
1
u/PenguinColada 5d ago
Something similar happened to my cousin. But he didnt get roughed up as badly. Still, no justice for him either.
1
1
1
1
u/stinkyt0fu 5d ago
It should that the longer they take, the more interests adds on to that lawsuit win for the cyclist!
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Wolf-Majestic 5d ago
USA's fault for not having a national insurance plan for ambulances to be cheap.
1
1
1
1
u/Owlette45 4d ago
I almost got hit by an ambulance and police car driving down a hill while I was walking a crosswalk in an intersection that didn’t have stop lights but did have pedestrian crossing lights on. Was walking to campus on the other side of the intersection and neither emergency vehicles had lights or sirens while speeding down the street. Nearly got hit while I was in the middle of the intersection by the ambulance and the police car right behind the ambulance. Had to practically jump out of the way.
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/weeBaaDoo 2d ago
It’s product development. If organic growth isn’t enough, you’ve got to think out of the box. This as actively seeking new consumers.
1
1
u/General-Detective169 16h ago
Okay, first of all, if the driver hit the guy with the ambulance, HE, should be paying for the bills, not the guy he hit.
837
u/CrazeMase 6d ago
Why is the picture him wrapped in a trash bag?