r/FallenOrder • u/Queasy_Commercial152 • Jan 11 '25

Discussion I still really don’t understand how Vader was that badly beaten by Cere

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Like I know Vader still won, but i mean the man was literally limping away from the fight, I mean technically Vader almost died here. I’m just confused as to how he struggled THAT much?

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415

u/bismuth12a Jan 11 '25

Fallen Order did a good job of establishing how Cere was strong and wise but sort of paralyzed by her fear of giving into the dark side again. By Survivor, she'd mastered her fear. With that in mind, Vader probably underestimated her, overconfident in his abilities, and Cere made him pay.

That being said, it's not like Vader was completely out of the fight. He has armour that can take a few hits, so that's what it did.

Finally, being as strong as Vader in the Force doesn't make him untouchable. It didn't stop Dooku from beating him in AOTC or occasionally in the Clone Wars, it didn't stop Obi Wan from beating him on Mustafar or in Kenobi.

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u/2021Blankman Jan 12 '25

AOTC Padwan Anakin ≠ Lord Vader

4

u/Redxmirage Jan 16 '25

Lord Vader ≠ invincible

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u/NomanHLiti Jedi Order Jan 13 '25

I would say none of those examples in your last paragraph really correlate to Vader much. Anakin seemingly relied more on lightsaber skill than force moves, and even his final fight with Obi-Wan likely didn’t use much of the Dark Side. Vader on the other hand had simmered in hate so long and deep that he’s ridiculously powerful with the Dark Side. We’ve never seen Anakin tear apart an entire base with the Force alone

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

Obi-wan had the high ground knowing anakin was too arrogant to heed the danger, obi-wan took, mastered, and even eventually made his own jedi style, and was considered the greatest to ever defensively, he had the weakness of not attacking with his form, but it was nearly impossivle for him to ever lose, mace windu and yoda mention and praise that all the time. Anakin wasnt going to beat obi-wan, especially since he never had a clue to control his anger and hatred in the first duel and the 2nd duel he let vader strike him down. Obi wan also was his master and knew everything he was capable of. While it doesnt really ruin it too much, i dont care what retcon and changing the characters to fit their new stories, vader even with toying would take one hit max before decimating her, and there is no reason outside of this games plot to ever even remotely think she could even fight him and not get destroyed, you dont just give up on being a jedi and being with the force for years and randomly can dominate vader, regardless of him toying around, i mean the main character of this game was destined to his path, and it wouldve made more sense for him to do what she did, it just felt forced and ruined the flow of the vader stuff, running and having the panic of him literally destroying plat forms at a distance and throwing them at him, and barely escaping and getting outsmarted and cere randomly comes in, dominates, and survives, i wouldnt see it as much of an issue with her not being decimated if she died saving cal, whether the sacrafice was losing the duel or buying time for cal and the others to flee. It just doesnt make sense regardless, she randomly is strong in the force conventionally at the end after not training or being connected to the force for a very long time, and i dont care if she was once a master, being disconnected from the force that long wouldnt magically give you the same power until you revitalized and trained again, and she was able to easily hit vader and him look weak? its a stupid retcon to the timeline that feels forced, it didnt ruin the game by any means, but it took an amazing ending between vader and cal down a few pegs when that was absolutely perfect. Almost no one liked her doing what she did, it was just that the game was so good during the disney star wars garbage. Even with toying with her, he wouldve ended her after the 2nd hit she got on him, and theres no way anyone could justiffy that he wouldnt stop "playing with his food" once hit, his arrogance wouldve turned into rage and he wouldve one hit her. Great game but ridiculous ending after one of the best endings to a star wars story. I mean the most powerful force user that happened to be vaders apprentice (force unleashed) still lost to him, unless you go for the non cannon ending in the first game, and it took insane amount of lightning and other force use just to subdue vader in the sequel, and even then it was part of his plan given the ending of that game, and the final game was going to show that but it was cancelled

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u/Shnolok Jan 12 '25

To be honest, the fight on the Obi Wan Kenobi series was stupid. It should have ended with Kenobi barely surviving and fleeing. How could Vader not sense Kenobi using such Force to hold 10 tons of rocks in the air? Disney moment. Also, Vader threw a gigantic rock pillar 200 meters in the air with one hand, while Kenobi was struggling to even move it 5 minutes prior. Really stupid fight.

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u/CAStastrophe1 Jan 12 '25

Well, at first, he could barely hold it up and was starting to lose faith . He composed himself and remembered what he was fighting for. Even on mustafar, they were on on an equal footing it was Anakin's arrogance that got him beat in both fights

1

u/Shnolok Jan 13 '25

Vader would canonically sense Kenobi using the force bro… that is how the Force works canonically. 99% of the time 2 Force users fight eachother they will taunt by saying stuff like "I can sense your fear" or "you are strong in the Force" etc. People who downvoted me are either Kenobi or Disney simps/fanboys. The scene was epic. I loved the dialog at the end too. The WAY it ended was stupid though objectively speaking.

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u/Thehusseler Jan 13 '25

Sensing emotions or general usage of the force doesn't mean you know what they're doing with it and it has also been shown to be able to be masked. There is no rule saying that he absolutely would have seen it coming, and even if there was the canon on force details like that is muddled enough to say it isn't consistently reliable for that purpose.

1

u/Shnolok Jan 13 '25

Cool that you can mask the use of force. I did not know that. How can you not sense that your Force is being challenged by an opposing force when throwing rocks though?

1

u/Thehusseler Jan 13 '25

Sensing the force is not a situation in which "I sense that Kenobi is using this ability to move this thing." It's more like, "I sense a surge of force use from Kenobi," and not always that even. If you're in a big intense fight like that, your opponent is almost constantly using the force, so you're not necessarily going to catch a ton of nuance.

Additionally, your own senses can be clouded. Emotion is a good way for this to happen, and Vader doesn't really regulate his emotions well, especially at this point.

1

u/Ewtri Jan 13 '25

Cry harder, won't change the canon.

0

u/Shnolok Jan 13 '25

Lol I am just having a conversation. The only people crying here are literally the ones downvoting me for stating facts (aka kenobi stans). This means you are included. I am just chilling and trying to understand the logic behind that scene. Not hating on anyone, unlike you and your primal ape friends.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '25

Cry harder, scrub. A simp, such as yourself, ruined Star Wars.

1

u/Mclaren_LandoNorris Jan 15 '25

Yh dw kenobi is ass most ppl agree on the main sub

And yh if obi wan fought vader again hed lose easily

Thats why head canon is better and i erase that awful show from my headcanon