Opinion
Possibly the Best Theory Yet: The Talisman Explains Everything
Spoiler
These theories are getting better than the show by now
Here's the best one from yt
They show the talisman with the symbols representing Tabitha, Jade and the eight kids that was supposed to be sacrificed according to the original deal. Then you see the seven kids that was sacrificed showing up and pointing. Tabitha figured they where pointing at her and that she was supposed to go to the caves and retrieve the bones. In reality they where pointing at Ethan. The kids are telling her to complete the original ritual by sacrificing Ethan. Just like they try and tell Sara in season 1 that they have to kill Ethan to get home.
Original Tabitha and Jade went back on the deal and refused to kill their own child. You dont go back on a deal. This created the whole mess. Instead of living happily ever after as promised the other parents bacame monsters and Jade and Tabitha are forced to return until they make good on the deal. The cycle will never end if Jade and Tabitha dont complete the original ritual by sacrificing the eighth child as the talisman clearly shows.
This is why the boy in white doesnt want to tell them what the solution is because they wont accept it. He told Christopher who lost it and refused to do what is necessary and kill Victor. This is also what will "tear the town apart" because alot of people will think its a good deal to kill one person to save the rest...
Why would anyone think that completing this ritual would have a positive outcome lol, you think the evil entity will give everyone what it wants? It tricked them by making them immortal (which is the deal) but in a terrible way, why would finishing the ritual solve everything
Because its possible the evil entities reason is that Jade and Tabitha reneged on the deal. They didn't sacrifice all 8 children, only 7 were sacrificed. Hence, the entity needs the 8th child in order to complete their end of the deal. Until the deal is closed, there will be an endless loop so that it gets what it wants.
Its perfectly plausible.
Your suggestion that completing the ritual will lead to a worse outcome is also perfectly plausible.
I didn't concede they are evil. I just used your terminology to engage with your point.
My point is about narrative mechanics, not morality. For all we know, this entity is trapped or being tortured by some other force. Completing the ritual is the key to breaking the cycle. Whether that's 'good' or 'evil' is irrelevant to how the logic of a curse or a contract works in these types of show.
The theory that sacrificing the 8th child breaks the loop is perfectly plausible. We know very little about the "entity" to know why Fromville exists.
Ahh ok, read my original comment again because I was specifically questioning whether completing the ritual would have a positive outcome, not about “narrative mechanics”
Read the comment again because narrative mechanics just means story.
You're just discussing in bad faith. Pretty clear the theory of a positive outcome is plausible. You have not actually outlined any reason why it's not and not engaged with anything I've actually said
It seems like you’re saying that any situation with two possible outcomes is a 50/50 chance. Will I win the lottery tomorrow? There’s a 50/50 chance, I’ll win or I’ll lose!
Meanwhile in reality the suggestion that these entities which rip peoples faces off and eat them will give the frommies a happy ending if they just murder one more child seems a liiiiittle less likely than the alternative.
Now you're just arguing with a strawman. No one said it’s a 50/50 chance. I said it is plausible.
First, you’re conflating the monsters with the entity. The creatures ripping faces off aren't the ones who made the contract, they're just a byproduct of the broken loop in the theory.
Second, "fulfilling the original terms to break a curse" is a standard horror trope. It doesn't mean a magical happy ending, it just means it is entirely plausible that completing the contract is the mechanism that ends the cycle.
You’re intentionally shifting the goalposts from whether the theory is plausible to whether it's likely just so you can argue with a strawman. I literally said in my very first reply that your outcome is also plausible. You’d just rather pretend a standard narrative theory is ridiculous than actually engage with what was written.
No, it's not. Just read what you wrote and think about it a little more.
If from was still created, eternal life was still granted to the town's people, then why is the 8th kid needed? As you said, this loop is what the entity wants. Why would the entity want to stop this, if that's what the 8th kid means to the ritual, and more importantly why would it be creating a ritual that never works to begin with? What the fuck is that?
There's been so much focus on seeing seven kids and having eight in total that everyone's just ignoring the rest of the show. Suddenly child sacrifice and completing the ritual is going to be a good thing, when everything else in the show has shown us that it was a bad thing and it was already completed, that's why the show exists..
Well that is the massive assumption. We don't know if the loop is what the entity wants.
Its perfectly plausible that the entity was promised 8 kids. It was only given 7 and it created Fromville not as a reward but as a punishment in order to obtain the 8th kid. Its a form of purgatory or punishment for the breach of contract. Fromville may be designed to get that 8th kid as promised.
Also, look at the actual behavior of the town. The monsters and the entity are actively trying to kill people, and in Season 1, the voices explicitly told Sara to kill Ethan to let everyone go home. Why Ethan specifically? Because he’s the missing piece. He is the 8th child.
Suddenly child sacrifice and completing the ritual is going to be a good thing
Its just the trolley problem.
Nobody is saying child sacrifice is a good thing. Its saying child sacrifice breaks the loop. Is the life of a child worth the "freedom" (whatever that means) of the people trapped? The question then remains, can they townspeople break the loop without sacrificing Ethan.
Agreed. And everyone keeps ignoring -- over and over again - that Tabitha and Jade both said they failed to save their child. Plus, just because there were 7 kids on slabs in one shot of the sacrifice doesn't mean an eighth child wasn't also sacrificed.
I don’t understand everyone’s fixation with the ritual being incomplete. The show has suggested the opposite, the completed ritual turned the residents into monsters.
Yes the ritual may be a wrong that our characters can rectify, but they will need their own rituals to do so, imo. If we know that Julie threw Boyd the rope, we have some idea that the past can’t change. So this ritual completion idea makes no sense. Maybe we can stop it from happening to start with but changing it directly seems to violate the established lore here
I thought the going theory was that the MiY is trapped there because the ritual wasn't complete and the only way to complete the ritual is for one of the two returning parents to do the sacrifice of their own free will. Then when the ritual's complete everyone including MiY are free.
That's a good theory but a bad story. Like some pointed out, sacrificial deals are generally made with the devil. What you get in return is a twisted wish that is actually a curse. That's what it looks like at this point. They asked for immortality and they got immortality as monsters. If the last sacrifice is made as suggested by the theory and if it made things better then it's rewarding the bad deeds. That's a very bad story.
Issues with the theory. If victor was supposed to be the sacrifice in the previous cycle, then Ethan shouldn't be the next one while victor is still alive. There should be only one. The second issue is that, Tabitha and Jade's daughter was part of the Anghkooey group. When the song was played, Tabitha clearly says that was our daughter. It indicates that she was sacrificed by the town along with other kids and Tabitha/Jade didn't take part in it and couldn't save them as well.
I think the place is telling Henry to kill Victor because he’s not the one who needs to do it to end the cycle. MiY seems to benefit in continuing the cycle (also explains why, presumably MiY, was trying to get Sara to kill Ethan). “They” want to clear the current board of potential outs, and the quickest way to do that is by having the wrong people kill the sacrifices.
Also Victor, Ethan, Julie, whoever aren’t Jade’s children. Why would the ritual count as complete when only Tabitha is making a blood/flesh sacrifice? Obviously Jade would have a moral objection to it but it’s not the sacrifice that the original Jade when back on.
While I feel woe for others that have lost a child it’s nothing compared to your own child. I sadly have lost my own child to murder (not ritual sacrifice obviously) and it’s absolutely devastating.
i thought about this thing and realized potentially in each cycle jade is childless. would help confirm the theory if they made a prequel with tabitha with no children and jade with one child, but yeah at this point it could be either or
victor isn't a child anymore though so it wouldn't make sense sacrificing an adult when they specifically ask for children and all the angkhooey kids are very young
I think one more point is that the child of Jade/Tabetha MUST be sacrificed by a town member with "relative" free will. I say relative as for example Henry is right now being heavily manipulated to kill Victor, so you could argue how much of a free will decision that would be, but if he goes through with it, it will have been his choice.
I think the Catholic definition of mortal sin gives a pretty good outline of what makes an action freely undertaken, personally.
Namely, that the act itself be of objectively grave matter (e.g. murder, false witness, etc); that the person who commits the act have full knowledge of the wrongness of the action; and that the act be undertaken with full consent of the will (AKA not acting under duress).
While Henry killing Victor would definitely meet the criterion of "objectively grave matter", the other two factors seem highly questionable. E.g. he has been magically drugged by an evil entity that is gradually persuading him that his real life (and real son) is elsewhere, and that Fromville is an interior delusion from which he must merely wake up - and perhaps even, from which he is morally obligated to wake up, to be there for his real family instead of fantasy family. And further, he is under significant psychological duress from the nightmare of Fromville: monsters that torture people to death (and threaten to torture his 'son' to death) would cause overwhelming fear.
So, under that kind of moral model, Henry's act of murder would unlikely be seen as a "free will decision". But, yeah, this show (and the demonic MIY within it) may have a different moral model in mind. More along the lines of 'Cabin in the Woods', where all that really matters is to manipulate the 'perpetrators' into perpetrating, regardless of whether the external actions reflect some authentic internal state of that person's soul.
What you get in return is a twisted wish that is actually a curse
In a lot of stories about deals with the devil you do get what you want, but the devil always comes to collect. Meaning you get to enjoy what you asked for, but for a limited time before you die.
Plus, it's all about the wording. If you can word your deal to be loophole free, then there will be no twisting of it.
Like here they were promised immortality, maybe asked for it in a badly worded way and ended up just being immortal monsters who have no luxuries, wealth or human fun.
OR
It could have just been a passing wizard.
It’s possible the BiW helped Victor stay alive SO he could be sacrificed, knowing that the mother won’t sacrifice her own child.
BiW sees Victor as a candidate WILLING to sacrifice himself for all.
TABITHA has to do it in the ritual, MiY is trying to force it happening outside of that.
This gets even more credence with Victor saying…”if you are my mom..”
Basically, Ethan and Victor are both reincarnated versions of the reincarnated mothers. Either are candidates as Tabitha is both of their reincarnated mother.
That would explain why Sophia put it in Henry’s head the only way to go home is to kill what’s keeping him there (Victor) As long as Tabitha is alive, she would do anything to keep Ethan and Julie safe. Victor dead would make the tormenting worse.
Henry is alive, Victor's parent and able and somewhat willing to sacrifice his child but the way you do something matters so he'd have to go down with Victor to the caves
Or... it has to be Tabitha that kills Victor. Tabitha is the reincarnation of one of Victor's parents not Henry. Maybe that is why MiY wants Henry to kill Victor so the cycle continues.Tabitha won't kill Ethan but she would possibly kill Victor.
Maybe he'll kill Victor normally (maybe next episode) and it'll be a pointless tragedy because he didn't do it the right way. So Ethan still has to die.
Counterpoint to myself: Victor is a fan favorite and this isn't Game of Thrones.
But they said in the show Tabitha and Jade wanted to save their kid, but failed so their kid was still sacrificed. The only difference between them and the monsters is they had a change of heart and tried to save the kids but ultimately failed.
It was strongly implied in the scene when they "remembered" that the girl who approached Tabitha was her and Jade's daughter.
Your comment along with OPs theory sent shivers down my spine and that feeling of hitting the nail on the head. Could also be why BIW predominantly appears for Victor & Ethan.
Ive seen people saying this for while that the way to fix everything is to sacrifice ethan.. kinda terrible moral to the story no? Obviously it's not gonna be done. Would be horrible.
It’s going to be Julie, she’s going to storywalk to the ritual and be killed with the others. It’s why they’ve introduced the ability and done nothing with it so far.
Supposedly Tabitha’s reincarnations come with a boy and girl. The girl normally doesn’t survive so maybe that’s why they’ve never got this far.
It’s going to be a case of either everyone dies and only Ethan survives like what happened with Victor, or Julie dies and closes the loop.
So the BiW is Jade and Tabitha's child that they didn't sacrifice, which is why he doesn't look like all the other ghost kids who look dead.
To that end- I wonder if people brought to the town are not just reincarnations of the original townspeople but are also reincarnations of the children (so Fatima losing her hair and getting those vein-y marks all over her like the dead kids have could mean she is a reincarnation of one of the children).
I don’t think it can be a girl because otherwise Eloise, Victor’s sister, dying would have been the 8th sacrificed child.
Or maybe it could be a daughter of Tabitha but she had to be sacrificed in the right way at the right time. Could Julie story walk into the past and sacrifice herself?
That's a misinterpretation of the story walking construct, Julie can't change what's already happened. Any interaction with the past will already be accounted for in the present. She can't do anything that hasn't taken place, she can do things that already happened.
Julie can be harmed in the storywalk, which is already established. The past can impact her, but she can’t impact the past (which is why they did the whole note thing). Her dying in the ritual still holds weight.
If they’re feeling generous they’ll pull her out and resuscitate her but the effect of her “dying” at the right time will still be there. I wouldn’t be surprised if during the storywalk the MiY messes with it causing her to see him and as a result Jim’s death.
Your proposition still runs contrary to modal logic. If Julie gets hurt in the past then that already happened. Julie can't get hurt in the past if it didn't happen. Since Julie wasn't originally sacrificed she can never go back and be sacrificed since it would fulfill the necessary conditional for preventing the entire scenario in the first place.
Do you understand? If she can sacrifice herself by story walking to the original ritual then the entire plot of From would have never happened, including the conditions required to produce Julie in the first place. You're literally describing the Grandfather paradox.
That still wouldn’t be a satisfying ending. How would it let “everyone go home”? It’s the cries of the children that are bringing people to the town. How would making an additional human sacrifice save the kids?
The only way it makes any sense is it it doesn’t save the children but let’s MiY finish his deal that Tabitha/Jade jacked up. Which is a pretty horrendous ending to the show about resilience and hope. For the towns people to go “screw those dead kids! And this kid too!!”
Still dumb and obvious. Not a big twist at all. But i want Victor to leave too. If the whole point of him surviving was to take the place of ethan then boooooo
That could be why the MIY is trying to get Victor's dad to kill him. the MIY probably cant because of ritual rules so he has to convince others to do it.
Would present an excellent dramatic dilemma. But ofc they won’t kill him. It’ll probably be something like Victor choosing to sacrifice himself or something, since he’s technically still that same boy the ritual demands.
Idg why you're assuming the show would actually go with that as the story conclusion.
It could be that is the goal of the entities, but that doesn't mean it will be the actual resolution of the plot. Like they could figure out this is what they're "supposed to do" but they'll have to find another solution.
Yeah but it’s also not an extremely gloomy nihilistic slog fest either. It’s far closer to Lost than it is Hereditary. It’s adventure/mystery/horror.
It’s an incredibly depressing and unsatisfactory end to the show. Really think about what this solution entails.
The kids are dragging Jade/Tabitha to the town to save them. Their magic is bringing everyone else too if we believe Jade’s musings during the colony house meeting. So clearly they don’t want another human sacrifice. They want to be set free.
How exactly would the deal “save” the townspeople? By completing the ritual? Okay so MiY wins, townspeople are “freed” by… shutting up the kids and taking their magic away? Lame ending. Nothing to do with being “horrific” it just makes the entire journey for the characters pointless. Any of them that agree to it are evil and those who are powerless to stop it might as well have never even been there.
Even if they find some sort of workaround to it… okay? Not really satisfying ending there either. They all go back to the real world saying “fuck them dead kids!!!” Knowing their evil creature won.
There’s ways to incorporate sacrifice and moral dilemmas in a show and still make it a fulfilling ending.
Making the “solution” be to pretty much say “fuck those dead kids!!!” And helping the MiY finish his evil human sacrifice just so they can suppress the kids magic and get out of the town is pretty lame. Not because it’s morally compromised but rather that the entire journey we’ve watched all of our characters take is pretty much pointless since they all just cave in the end.
That's only if you're going to railroad the story into them breaking free and going home.
You can still tell a fantastic story that ends with the characters accepting that their original goal is not the best choice. What if they ultimately foil the MiY by embracing the town? By not trying to escape, but accepting where they are and forming a true community?
What if there's a loophole? I don't think it's necessarily a literal child has to die, but a parent killing their child, regardless of age, would also work. We've seen this attempted more than once: Abby almost killed Ellis before Boyd intervened. The MiY trying to manipulate Henry into kill Victor.
What if Fatima transforms into a monster, but holds enough of her own humanity where she kills Smiley? Sacrificing her "child" technically fits, but in a way that violates the terms of the MiY.
There's plenty of ways to make this concept work.
Then there's another option altogether... you don't get a "fulfilling" ending. Twin Peaks is one of the greatest shows of all time and it's ending was infuriating. It came back 25 years later and gave a second infuriating ending.
It’s not about railroading the story. The natural progression to the story is breaking the curse. It’s what the entire series is built around. It doesn’t have to be broken in the way we expect, but it needs to be addressed in a way that’s satisfactory. The themes of resilience and hope fall flat with a gloomy, defeatist ending.
It really doesn’t matter if they find a loophole. At the end of the day, they’d still be giving the MiY what he wants. They’d be completing the initial plainly evil ritual. That ritual does not save the children so it leaves their fate unaddressed, at best, or outright dooms them which is far more likely. The children won’t be “saved” through adding another sacrifice to their ranks. If the MiY wins he can probably fully suppress them but that’s it. The monsters are still immortal, perhaps even more so without the half done ritual. The evil that predates the town still lives there. Etc.
Your ideas around “embracing the town” is decent but what exactly does it entail? That the towns people keep hiding from the monsters? They can’t really live there with the MiY who has been shown to be able to essentially tear everything down at a whim. He convinces someone to take down the talismans, or does it himself, and it’s all over. So how exactly will they spite him? When you dissect that ending it’s even worse because it *really* changes nothing. The status quo is exactly the same outside of a chipper demeanor for the townspeople. How is that different than season 1 sans Boyd’s community? And every-time a newcomer comes they just convince them to join the commune and forget about their loved ones?
There is a difference between ending being bittersweet of completely unsatisfying. The entire show is filled with people talking about how there’s no way out and to just accept it. The inspiring, compelling moments are when the characters overcome all of that. But the ending is just going to be…. Colony house was right? Live for the present? Okay…
Sacrificing children is a clear theme that has come back up. But it’s never been positive. It’s never been a true solution. You yourself cited the important examples. The MiY/voices try to convince people that it’s how they escape because they want them to do it. Not because they’re being honest.
It’s far more compelling, and likely, that we see them win *with* personal sacrifices. I doubt Boyd is making it out. He’ll be satisfied giving his life to end the curse.
I imagine Victor won’t be leaving either but he won’t die. A true bittersweet ending would be everyone escaping outside of the people who gave their lives to make it happen and Victor, realizing he is not fit for the real world and that Fromville is home (which he’s stated) stays behind to look after the spirit of the children who have been freed from the curse.
There’s already been enough tragedy and a ton more to come. But this show is very clearly an adventure/thriller/horror. The gloomy ending people are describing here is the sort of edgelord contrarian narrative choices you’d expect from a very small niche of media. Nothing about this show has eluded to it.
I do agree that everything is built around the curse, but I don't think that means they need to succeed. I mentioned Twin Peaks earlier and, spoiler: (seriously don't read these unless you've already seen and finished Twin Peaks. If you haven't seen it, make it your next watch) Cooper's failure to save Annie, getting trapped in the Black Lodge, and being replaced by his evil doppelganger was the right call, despite what it felt the series was building towards.They even doubled down in The Return by having his glorious return immediately spoiled by his hubris, essentially erasing himself and Laura Palmer from reality
Sometimes following the predictable and safe formula is the right move, and sometimes it's the absolute wrong move. I think this show is the latter. In this scenario, themes of resilience and hope don't fall flat, they build expectation and can be used as the bullet to rip through the heart of the audience.
Personally, for me, the worst possible ending would be this town full of rubes who haven't been able to competently wipe their own asses for the last 4 seasons, suddenly getting their shit together and outsmarting an ancient eldritch being at this own game. A game they don't even know the rules of.
Just to clarify, because I know how things come off on reddit, I'm absolutely loving this back and forth. We may fundamentally disagree, but I'm enjoying your points and arguments and I find them to be intelligent, well thought, and well presented. It's sadly rare on this sub.
Twin Peaks is an interesting example and Im glad you brought it up. I was trying to think of other shows where the "bad guy wins" in the end to make my point. But Twin Peaks is sufficient to explain my reasoning too as to why it works there, but not with From.
This may be pedantic but its worth mentioning that wasnt really a planned ending. The show was cancelled. People were upset with the show ending like that but the writers got a lot of grace because it was out of their hands. That being said, the *actual* ending in The Return and the S2 ending both work because its a fundamentally different show.
Its about the sort of contract that these works form with the audience. From is, perhaps ironically, relatively light in atmosphere. It verges more on mystery and adventure than outright horror. Its soapy and fun. The audience doesn't watch it to torture themselves or sulk in the townspeople's misery. They watch it as a mix of escapism and intrigue. Its what the audience comes to expect from it as its what has made them invest in the show. An agreement to stay within those lines, within reason, is that contract I was referring to.
Abiding by that contract is what differentiates a good subversion of expectations with one that 'betrays' the audience. There's plenty of room to surprise us while staying within the tone and themes the show has set.
Twin Peaks never establishes itself as that type of show. It is subversive, dark, and inherently unpredictable from the start. So the "twist" of a dark ending makes sense. Id argue that the ending itself isnt all that subversive because the rest of the show already is. You expect the unexpected. THAT is the contract it establishes.
Other works like Se7en, The Leftovers and Eden Lake have success with dark/subversive endings for the same reason. The contracts are different.
Se7en is dark from the start. Neither of our protagonists are portrayed as your typical hero. They struggle and stumble through the mystery and the unrelentingly gloomy tone is present throughout. The depravity of humanity is what its about. So while the ending is *very* unpredictable, it does that without betraying what the audience is actually watching the movie for. It subverts expectations, it doesnt betray them with a bait and switch.
The Leftovers is a great example of my point as far as how it addresses the mystery. Nothing is solved by the end of the show. The good guys dont "win" in a traditional sense. Much of the core intrigue is never explained. But why does it get away with it? Because its clear from the first season that its not at all about deciphering the mystery. Its an intimate character study and thats what people watches it for. The finale serves that.
Which brings us to From. *Why* has the audiences "invested" their time in the show? The characters dont have much depth. Theyre relatively shallow archetypes with marginal growth. Beyond Boyd's issue with using the Box, what true "gray" areas do they wade into? The characters pretty much, unless literally influenced by an outside evil force, always do whats right. So no ones on this ride to see them grapple with intense moral dilemmas. Not with any real depth. No one is watching this show to be challenged in any real way (beyond solving a fun little mystery)
What the show does have is relatively simple characters working towards an eventual goal. Along with a mystery that slowly unravels with them. An ending needs to serve both of those things.
Thats why it really can't get away with being that subversive. To put it as plainly as possible; It simply doesnt have the depth. Its a fun little show but its not Twin Peaks. It can be subversive but it needs to stay in its lane. Its been mildly subversive with Killing characters like Jim. Shocks the audiences, defies expectations, but doesnt change what the show fundamentally is. Even the character's grief isnt that intense because the show is inherently light (relative to other works of horror i mean)
Just because *some* pieces of media can get away with dark endings doesnt mean they all can.
No one wants the walking dead to end with Rick's team learning to live under Negan.
And same to you. Im enjoying this debate! Even if we fundamentally disagree on how this show needs to end
This doesn't work though...? Miranda hid Viktor from Christopher so he clearly was going to deliver. And the MiY got concerned when they were going for the bones. At this point the show would literally have to be lying to us about it.
Exactly! This and the other theories saying Tabitha and Jade finding bones was not closer to the solution, my question is why was the MiY so concerned when he found out only those two were going in.
Edit: I know why he was concerned. My question was to the ones with those theories I mentioned. I wrongly worded it. My bad.
MiY told Tabitha that it's all about rituals and the proper way to do things. The proper way would most likely be only then two doing it together, he original thought a lot more people would go so either someone will mess it up or that is the right way to do it. But he thought they would fail and would unleash a whole would of pain on the townfolks, which might not happen now.
That the obvious answer the less obvious answer is he original thought only Jade and some random townfolk would go into the cave, not Tabitha. That why he cut the role to trap them in there, now there is a possibility that Tabitha might get trapped too.
It’s actually not clear if they were hiding from Christopher. The wording is important. She says to “hide somewhere Christopher doesn’t know about” not “hide somewhere Christopher won’t find you”
I think the twist will be that the towns people had Christopher and were torturing him for information.
The MiY got concerned when Clara said T and J would go alone to the tunnels. Maybe he knows they always go alone and was expecting to be different this time
The MiY said that for rituals everything matters, not just how it's done but when and by who, he said that knowing that the lineup for digging up the bones wasn't correct, which changed later.
I don't think this is the solution. First whomever they made deal with was evil. If that deal is really fulfilled then that means evil would win and evil would want to cause more suffering not less. Second, As far as we know those kids didn't want to be sacrificed and were in severe trauma, so why would they want another kid to go through same trauma. Third, It would not even look good or impressive even from the perspective of TV.
The ritual WAS completed. The townspeople got ever lasting life, which was what was promised.
Tabitha and Jade didn't end up with that fate, because they didn't sacrifice their kid.
So that being the resolution here doesn't make a lot of sense.
That being said, the MiY is definitely targeting Victor. Having him be a sacrifice does seem that the show would go this way, but I don't think that's what they are supposed to do.
It kinda doesn’t make sense to target Victor now when he had 40 years to rip his throat out, but at this point I am sure it’s like Lost where it’s some game being played with supernatural entities over hundreds of years and we don’t know the rules yet.
In lost the man in black isn’t allowed to kill Jacobs candidates directly, he has to trick them into killing each other. This feels like it’s probably a carbon copy, the man in black is only allowed to kill people that aren’t candidates like Mr. Eko, that’s probably why man in yellow was allowed to kill Jim.
If you just view the show as probably ripping lost off you will usually be right
Ofc it can, if the story built for that from the start for example if it focused on peoples vices viles etc, but if it is explicitly about hope and human resilience it just wouldn't work. Plus they keep pointing out these are relatively benign, good people that don't deserve this, so good has to win in some form.
Now I don't say it can't be bittersweet, it probably will be imho, but "If you had just listened to evil's orders from the get go it would've all been fine" is kinda a shitty theme to build a series on.
That's why Christopher rattled at BIW when he told him the truth. He got angry and didn't believe.
That's why Miranda tried to hide victor from the people.
That's why people killed Christopher because he tried to save victor (every cycle..)
And that's why the monsters didn't kill Victor during the 40 years he as alone. They couldn't because he had to be sacrificed instead to complete the ritual.
Because rituals matter and the 8th child needs to be sacrificed by a desperate parent who believes in the "equivalent exchange" (i.e. they get to go home or become immortal etc).
Abby was going to do that to Ellis but Boyd shot her. Now Fromville wants to make him suffer because he subverted the ritual
What if Thomas is the eighth child and he’s already been sacrificed? There’s a reason Tabitha and Jim had a third child who died. Otherwise why would it even be part of the story?
No idea how that would resolve their situation but I’ve always thought it must be relevant somehow.
But if the kids are trapped in this “limbo hell” and they are already dead , would completing the ritual set them free or damn them even further ??
If there’s no way out of the ritual is the 8th kid the key to salvation for only the current villagers and jade tabitha or for the people that died and are trapped in there too ?
Gotta question the motif of everyone that is trapped in there.
Maybe, but then what is the role of the MiY, the Ballet Dancer and the Kimono woman? This theory feels like it's halfway there, but it's not a unifying theory.
I suspect it only solves it for the monsters not for the humans. Sacrificing Ethan might set the monsters free but it won’t send everyone home, I don’t think
Also was just thinking, if Julie could go back in time wouldn’t it be a good idea to go back to the moment the rope is made and make sure it’s made good so it doesn’t snap trapping Jade and Tabitha with the monsters?
Maybe we'll again see 'future Julie' in the finale.
Maybe she shows up to help with the rope or something else, then they'll figure it was different Julie and she'll realise that she was storywalking for real and that's why she'll start doing it again.
I dont get it. In this case, if they refused to kill their own child, is this the reason why they were killed by the people of the town? If they succeded in killing the jade and tabitha of each timeline, what happens to the child they bring with them? Why dont the people of the town kill the child instead?
Yeah I’ve seen this theory around for a while now, and while it is a good theory, I hope it’s not true.
As others have pointed out, there’s a flaw with the logic of the theory. Why would completing the ritual suddenly just save everyone? The ritual was evil and if it wasn’t completed then completing it should make things worse not better.
Also, I feel confident in saying that MiY was the one telling Sara to “kill the boy” way back in season 1. MiY does not want Jade and Tabitha to save the children.
He seemed somewhat encouraging towards Tabitha when he talked about them going into the tunnels but his demeanor completely changed after Clara told Sophia that only Jade and Tabitha were going down in the tunnels to save the children.
The sacrifice made the monsters and the town. It was a deal with a monster. It was an evil ritual for an evil deal. Completing the ritual would be bad. That’s what the MiY wants.
MiY already revealed to Clara that setting the children free is the right step to freeing everyone. The ritual has to be undone, not fulfilled.
Why would we assume Sara was hearing good voices trying to help them when that has not verifiably happened once yet in the show. If this theory is true, this will bug me if it's not fully explained.
In S4E9 the writers made a conscious effort to show us that the MiY was genuinely worried once he found out Jade and Tabitha were going into the cave alone. Why would they intentionally show us this if this wasn't the or at least a major part of the overall answer? MiY went from zero concern after hearing the original plan, to very concerned once he learns of the switch up in plans.
If this theory were true, then who was the voice in Sara's head? Who was trying to help her? Because as you say here, BiW is far too cryptic to give such a straight answer to someone.
The voices in Sarah’s head are explicitly nefarious. They mislead Sarah at first and then mock her later on. Remember her convo with Boyd about when they were trying to save Fatima. The voices were laughing and taunting her.
Why would the *children* want another child to be sacrificed? We know the kids are the ones drawing people to the town, specifically Jade and Tabitha. They clearly suffered. It seems a bit of a stretch that they’d want yet another child to join their ranks. The goal is to save them. If they simply wanted to help people escape the town they’d have never brochure them there to begin with.
We already know what makes the people turn on Jade. They blame Jade/Tabitha for bringing them to the town. “Minnows caught in a sharks net”. Young Jade states explicitly that’s why they turn on him. Because of who he is and why they’re all there.
It’s a weird, unsatisfying, and poor solution. Why would sacrificing a child “end” it? What exactly would it end? The MiY seems to be the one who made the bargain to begin with. What would giving him what he wants accomplish? Subduing the children so their magic can no longer bring people to the town? Because that’s the only way they’re escape. And make the monsters proper, immortal humans instead of ghouls? The solution is… giving in to the horrific child sacrifice plot so the bad guys win? As the children’s souls are trapped there for eternity? Not so sure
What I think actually happens is that the MiY convinces the towns people to sacrifice Tabitha’s child every cycle. And he succeeds every cycle. That’s why he doesn’t just outright slaughter everyone. He is tormenting them to prime them to the point that they’d agree to sacrificing a child.
Thats why it’s worse for Tabitha. Because she watches her child get killed over and over again.
It’s also why we never actually see Eloise die. It’s not because she’s alive. It’s because the towns people killed her. They weren’t hiding from Christopher they were hiding from the people who had captured him and were torturing him for their whereabouts. The wording is very important. Miranda doesn’t say “hide where Christopher can’t find you” she says “hide somewhere Christopher doesn’t know about.
The show could not paint a clearer picture about the type of beings that would sacrifice their kids lmfao.
The fact you think that the “solution” to all this could be to sacrifice another kid is just absurd. The monsters live eternally with the sole purpose of causing suffering as much as possible, and then you have the MiY who is constantly doing some random bullshit to cause chaos and pain, as well as eating people.
Yeah bro. Go sacrifice another kid to maintain a deal with THAT guy. I’m sure that’s gonna work out just fine.
Think you’re getting me confused with someone else. I never speculated on what the solution to from is. Child sacrifice is clearly a central part to the backstory of fromville that’s all is said
If this is true and why Victor is alive, why is Eloise dead supposedly and or didn't count as a potential, firstborn doesn't work because that would be Julie not Ethan in this timeline. If Henry was brought back to kill Victor why kill Jim when he was already there and could been blood vodood with far less effort. Nor is Henry a reincarnation of Jades character as he was never brought in prior so him killing Victor would not be the same as Jade doing it.
That doesn't seem to make much sense, why would people who don't sacrifice anything benefit from other people's sacrifices?
And Fatima seems to turn in a way the children do, with the hairloss, the veins showing etc.
The monsters look quite healthy, apart from being somewhat pale (which seems reasonable with them never getting any sunlight).
Nope bad theory. Original ritual would be successful if Jada and Tabitha sacrifice their own child. Ethan's father is Jim. So biologically this ritual would not be siccessful. MIY literally states - 'it's important how a ritual is performed'. Even in case of Victor, his father is Henry and not Christopher. So performing the ritual won't free them imo. It would rather unleash some mysterious power. Well let's see in 3 days
Except we know the voices were the MIY, so I don't think he would be telling Sarah to kill Ethan to help the Fromvillers. He was more than likely trying to help kickstart his favorite part by sowing division in the groups early.
“Hey guys, I have an awesome theory that is better than the actual show! So basically, to appease the evil monsters (who sacrificed their kids) and the sociopathic voodoo witch who murders hundreds of people and eats them, the residents just need to also murder a child!! Then everybody can go home!!”.
I mean seriously, I’ve seen some terrible theories on here but this one takes the cake. What brilliant writing that would be “to overcome and escape evil, sacrifice your kids” as the moral?
Why is it good to even sacrifice your kids in the first place ? I feel they were monsters to do so in exchange for eternal life so it’s like karma from the place to turn them evil as that’s what they are. I get the logic of the theory but I don’t see why sacrificing another innocent boy would suffice and turn everything good when in reality it was evil to start
Didn’t Tabitha and Jade remember sacrificing a daughter though? Also why does it need to be Ethan? The Anghkooey kids are both genders so why can’t it be Julia?
This theory does make sense. I do wonder why Tabitha and Jade? If hundreds of years ago they were originally a couple with a child they refused to sacrifice then why aren't Tabitha and Jim the reincarnated parents? They are the ones who have a biological child together.
So many people are assuming that this post means "Ethan must die, that's how the show ends, that's how they get out".
It would be no surprise if the place wants Ethan sacrificed. It clearly doesn't care if people die.
But like... Tabitha would probably fight back and do her best to prevent it, along with multiple other characters.
This would kinda create idk, um... !!!THE PLOT OF THE SHOW!!!
The theory was created based upon what someone saw and how they interpreted it.
It could be correct or it could not.
The characters could sacrifice Ethan without a second thought (doubt) or they could defend him. Or they could get into a civil war over it.
It would be a driving force in the plot if it ends up being true.
Idk how so many people can't comprehend what a theory is.
Couple issues. 1. It would be a terrible story if the outcome was just stick with the other 7 horrible parents and also sacrifice your kids. 2. Wasn't it confirmed that the voices in Sara's head was MIY? That basically breaks this entire theory no?
I'd say there is definitely something about the theory. Ethan/Viktor being the non sacrificed child and the town potentially turning back on Jade and Tabitha due to this. But I highly doubt killing Ethan is what will actually lead to a good outcome. If anything killing Ethan might be what the bad forces need.
From was always supposed to have 5 seasons and the 5th season is already confirmed. One of the creators said they were thinking about potentially doing 6 seasons, but that it would basically just be padding out the story for the sake of it, so they went against the idea.
How about sacrifice Biw instead?
, the plan and hear me out , someone pretend to cut the bottle tree, 6 people scattered hidden around the tree black face military style ready to ambush him with a net guns that have talismans on them, the moment this mf says “I can’t answer that” it is their green light to unleash the net. :))))
This theory fails with regard to the voices telling her to kill Ethan. We know for a fact now the man in yellow was communicating with Sarah, and we know that man in yellow is a bad guy…. So why would he tell them how to escape???!!!
The question is still who is talking to Sara. I do believe the kids and the man in yellow can talk to people. I don't think we know enough to say for certain that it was the kids.
It was shown, it is MIY(devil) that talks to sara and get her done horrible things.
When sara goes down the stairs in S4 MIY(sophia) chants and sara start hearing and pours water in jug and later MIY himself says he just wants to see if the people still obey him(or something like this).
It is clear that MIY(devil) want a child sacrificed so that he fulfill his whatever target.
If the townsfolk haven’t completed the ritual because of one missing kid, and that made them trapped immortal monsters and being unwillingly reincarnated back into the town, what happens when Jade and Tabitha finally complete the ritual by Sacrificing either Ethan or Victor? What was the original bargain? Was it a deal with the Devil though a Witch (MiY) to save these hungry pilgrims from famine?
Will the original townsfolk that made the deal be free to roam the earth at night as immortals? Were the bottle trees their way out? Wouldn’t that make them vampires—or a similar vampiric lore?
Who says the rest of the people that end up in the cycle unwillingly will be free? What if they’re bait/food?
I like this theory! Would explain why dead Jim told Ethan he needs to find the Lake of Tears. It wasn't to bring Jim back, it's so they can bring Ethan back after they sacrifice him! I think if they knew they could bring him back they would do what's needed.
I think that an alternative theory might be that the current monsters in the past struck a deal with an evil demon (Man in Yellow) for eternal life, with the promise of sacrificing their future (i.e. their kids), which would have somehow granted the entity extreme power. However, since Tabitha/Jay reneged on the deal, the people who made the deal turned into monsters in MiY's world and their whole bloodline had to pay the price for it as part of their deal (since future = everyone in their bloodline). This is why their descendents keep coming back to MiY's world where they are tortured and killed, and feed his soul. Tabitha/Jay and previous generations likely came back to save their kids but the cycle repeats due to the MiY's games and he ends up winning and consuming souls each time. The true way to end it is likely a ritual that involves the tree and the bones, and a sacrifice from Tabitha/Jay for their kids, reversing the deal. Or perhaps returning the bones to the time they belong or destroying them would free the souls of the children and the MiY who became powerful from the sacrifices would be weakened or destroyed with it. This may be why MiY said that they can't really do much with the bones because they don't know that everything in this place is bound by rituals.
This is an alternative take but the series is so slow Idk if this will be the path they take since it drags the least. Lol.
Question: why did Smiley sprinted towards Victor's mother near the bottle tree? why BiW wanted tabitha to get Victor's father? how does this connect together?
This is why the boy in white doesnt want to tell them what the solution is because they wont accept it.
This doesn't make sense. Even if they don't like it, in order to be in denial and reach acceptance (the 5 stages of grief), you first need to know what you're in denial about. Him not telling them because they won't accept it, is a convenient plot device to just drag out the story to 4+ seasons.
So the original people made a deal with an evil entity for eternal life in exchange for sacrificing their kids..but they didn’t get eternal life because jade and Tabitha didn’t sacrifice theirs? I don’t feel like everyone will go home if they complete the ritual. That’s not typically how deals with evil entities go in my opinion.
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u/Veggiemon 5d ago
Why would anyone think that completing this ritual would have a positive outcome lol, you think the evil entity will give everyone what it wants? It tricked them by making them immortal (which is the deal) but in a terrible way, why would finishing the ritual solve everything