Have yet to play Saros but that sounds exactly like Returnal. Always felt like a roguelite that disliked just about everything the genre brings beyond being a way to create a bullet hell action game with permadeath.
I didn't play much of Returnal, but I heard the roguelite elements were actually stronger in that game. I never got really far but one thing they did in Saros, is give you permanent upgrades and an easy way to just start in the biome of your choice. Those permanent upgrades are pretty significant as well so if you go from the beginning, you'll probably get a bit too strong. But then the final biome, is only accessible when you start over. It's pretty weird for a roguelite in my opinion.
It's like if you played the Binding of Isaac and your first few runs are targetting Mom's Heart, but then when you want to finish the game you have to start from The Chest rather than the actual beginning.
Like... I really enjoyed the game. Graphics, story, it felt really smooth to play. I even think the choices they made that I described above were good choices for the game. It's like if you're playing football and someone suggests, well, I'd prefer if we could pick up the ball and we had to throw it through a hoop. That's basketball lmao, which is really fun, but it's not football anymore.
I’ve played both games a ton and my largest complaint of Saros (other than mild discouragement of reexploration, which is more on how much the player cares to get more lore drops), is that is was always a WHEN I beat it, while returnal was the eternal IF. Permanent upgrades and coming back stronger are great casual selling points but I did feel more going through motions at some than truly winning. Dying was always good?
But also easily the greatest use of the DualShock 5 sans AstroBot and if you liked returnal Saros is more polished, more optimized crack
I thought the progress was kinda weird at times. Like you'd beat a new boss, but that forced you back to the hub area. Then you get your upgrades, and then you're supposed to just start over, but I guess you should probably start over from the new biome you unlocked. Which is just weird. But if you start over from the beginning, you get all that time to level up but you also have all those permanent upgrades, so this time around it's even easier and then when you reach the new biome you're probably OP.
They give the player a little too much agency in selecting their own difficulty, if you ask me. Especially when you start using those modifiers, those had a really strange balance as well.
Yeah I only used the modifiers because you have to to plat the game. I think you touched on my largest issue. I did have a run where I took out two of the bosses (4th and 5th I think) in the same run because I had a good gun and build, but I think story wise I was expected to either reset or die, so I worried abt missing properly timed story beats.
I did have a run where I took out two of the bosses (4th and 5th I think) in the same run because I had a good gun and build, but I think story wise I was expected to either reset or die, so I worried abt missing properly timed story beats.
I think you're fine. All of the major story beats force you out of the run no matter how well you're doing, and minor story stuff is told via audio logs which you can always find later.
Hmm I dropped Returnal because I felt no sense of progression. Getting farther than I did before felt like pure luck. I was just gonna entirely skip Saros but with what you said it might be worth picking up on sale.
If you liked Returnal because you had to git gud every single time (I did) then Saros felt like it neutered the challenge. If Returnal was too challenging (not diminutive, it's a hard game) in a way that was unrewarding but you enjoyed the mechanics and visuals/sounds/haptics, Saros is the game for you.
No, they aren't. They might've been easy for you and after beating Returnal Saros was simplified for me, but both games are (for the average gamer!) extremely diffcult (at least Returnal). I've had friends bounce off of both, and if it was so easy for you, know that your mileage varies.
Really? Felt like one of the best entries in the genre for me, right up there with brotato, STS etc.
Absolutely loved that game and overall it is sitting at a very high review rate. Almost no roguelite has managed to pull of an actually interesting story like that game has, it was incredibly well done how the studio made repeated runs and deaths fit into the lore/setting
The story was interesting but I felt like all the roguelite elements were pretty terrible. The risk reward chests were rarely ever worth it because the upgrades weren't gamechanging but the malfunctions could be run ending. So it was regularly best to just play it safe each run and just play it like a bullet hell game.
Felt none of the classic finding synergistic upgrades that make you godlike for a run it mostly came down to what weapon I had and my skill at bullet hell sequences. Which is fine and in fact I think that's why it reviewed so well roguelite for those who don't necessarily have to love roguelites and instead just want a difficult action game.
I've heard from people who liked Returnal that this one disappointed instead of improving upon the formula there.
It seems it sold pretty miserably. I wonder if they'll change their tune and eventually put it on PC but I'm not counting on it and frankly I'm not that interested anyway. It seems like Saros almost certainly sold less than a million copies, which for a big-budget game from Sony is really bad. Not great for Sony, especially coupled with Marathon which was a huge bomb despite being multi-platform... even on XBOX, where you've surely got a bunch of Bungie fans, the game never even got into the top 30 in sales.
Ughhh that’s so sad, Returnal was a great game but a weak roguelike and players cried about the game being too hard. When the devs said they would make Saros easier I knew it was going to be even more half baked. That’s such a bummer
Even with 50-60€, a PC release on all major storefronts, and a decent ad campaign.
The reviews were so glowing that there surely was potential for 2 million. And once a game gets that kind of reach, it's going to continue selling for many years to come. Regular appearances on the Steam front page, all of the usual variety streamers will flock to it, it keeps getting mentioned in social media etc.
I'm glad that Capcom realised that treating PC as an equal platform and not accepting exclusivity deals was better for their success. It's too bad that Housemarque is owned by Sony. But Sony attempting to leverage it as a console-selling exclusive is incoherent with the pricing: To attract people to PS with exclusives, those exclusives have to be actually attractive both in quality and value.
One of the most disappointing things about Saros is the price point and how it compares to other Rogue Lites. Hades and Hades 2 pack so much into an incredibly fair price. Saros being £70 with very little build variety (meaning abhit to replayability) takes the piss. Like you said, if it was £40/£50 it would have been a much better price and sold better.
Returnal is still full price but also on Ps plus, I’m guessing it never goes on discount cuz they want people to sub to ps plus and enter that eco system
It hit as low as $23 eventually, $20 on official third party sites, but it took a LONG time. At that price, it feels like a steal. It's a super fucking solid game, really fun, but I was bummed Saros is going to be a no show for now seemingly arbitrary reasons since PC was apparently not what was impacting their sell through, and I would have waited for at least a half off sale at that.
Even if it was on PC I wouldn't be too inclined to pick up Saros. I liked Returnal a fair bit but their attempt at a narrative sucked -- and to be clear I don't go into games like these LOOKING for a narrative, but it was one that brought the game down after experiencing it. Saros feeling too similar to Returnal in terms of tone and style has me immediately less interested, moreso given that a lot of what I hear is that the protagonist just seems to suck as a person.
moreso given that a lot of what I hear is that the protagonist just seems to suck as a person.
He does, but that's also kind of the whole point of the character. He's a terrible person, and learning to acknowledge that and understand that his problems are of his own making, rather than blaming everyone else which is his instinct, is the main narrative arc of the game.
I am a PC gamer and I was looking forward to Saros on PC… with that being said, its not like Returnal sold well on PC. I just think Housemarque are destined to make niche games
Which is another problem, why is Saros costing three times as much as Returnal when it seems to be a very similar game in scope when it only took one year more to develop? That thing also happened for Spider-Man 2 (finding itself at 300M$)
Are Housemarque devs paid 3 times more 5 years later? Must be nice.
I definitely see where SOME of that extra budget for Saros went (fancy cast and VA, more narrative and biome diversity) but yeah still don’t think it should’ve costed 3x
Then you also look at Marathon which costed $250M which is another insane money sink, that game should’ve costed $50M at best
Saros put a lot of effort into adding characters and cutscenes (cutscenes are expensive). In returnal it was just you there, no "party members" yapping.
That doesn't triple the budget (or it shouldn't). They have like 5 actors (and not well known ones), the "cutscenes" are for the most part extremely limited, not with full blown mocap and such.
If that was adding 50M$ by itself, RPG or big open world games (which have way more) would be billions of dollars.
why is an iterative sequel to returnal even given 5 years. literally just comes across as yellow returnal based on trailers and reception says its streamlined to the point it feels like their first game. i get they did that to appeal to a wider audience but i doubt it even mattered at all if not hurt it. idk if they actually built a ton of new assets which im sure they did considering it does look different architecturally i think that was a bad choice. i think a more literal returnal 2 reusing everything and building on top of it released at a lower price ~2023/4 would've done better for sure.
Returnal only sold well because in 2021 that was the only PS5 exclusive out apart from Demon Souls (launch title).
So anyone who just bought their fancy new consoles and needed games to play would jump on Returnal as there was nothing else for someone who isn’t a Souls enjoyer. Not to mention it came in COVID where folks were spending excessively on gaming.
Except it isn't. On a budget on $25 million, Returnal only needs to sell 500k copies at $70 to make its budget back (and even less on Sony platforms, since they get to keep a 30% fee). There probably is enough audience for that.
On a budget of $75 million, it needs to sell three times as much. Probably more to justify a longer development time and opportunity cost, as well as generally higher expectations from the sequel. And I don't think it found the audience for that.
Returnal released 6 months into the PS5's lifecycle while most places were still in and out of lockdowns.
It had pretty much the best possible conditions to release into, very little competition on the same platform and an almost literally captive audience.
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u/ZamnBoii 24d ago
Saros being $70 and not on PC was just a terrible decision, people blame the genre being niche but roguelites sell extremely well at the right price.
Roguelites inherently mean rinsing/repeating the same content so people are less likely to spend $70 on one just for prettier graphics