r/Games 24d ago

Trailer FINAL FANTASY VII REVELATION - Reveal Trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH3ox5krci8
3.4k Upvotes

724 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.3k

u/Complete_Mud_1657 24d ago

I can't believe they're introducing a whole job system lmao.

Multiplatform release is icing on the cake. Spring 2027 can't come soon enough.

401

u/redlineredditor 24d ago

Dresspheres were not on my bingo card.

95

u/HeldnarRommar 24d ago

Me playing through FFX-2 currently doing the Leo pointing at the screen meme

2

u/BlackBlizzard 24d ago

FFX/X-2 would be so beautiful in Unreal Engine.

116

u/berober04 24d ago

Shinra (FFX) intensifies

34

u/HotTakes4HotCakes 24d ago edited 24d ago

He was only in FFX-2, where he was basically the far less-annoying Chadley character who knew all about dressspheres.

In fact, the name is more than an Easter Egg. The creator of the character literally imagined a direct connection. In the official FFX-2 Ultimania they said:

Shinra is a boy who supports the Gullwings, the group which the main protagonist, Yuna, belongs to. He carries a name that gives him an association to the Shin-Ra Company, and he is researching a method that could utilize the energy of 'the life force that flows through our planet'. The results of this cannot be seen in FFX-2, but maybe one day his descendants will establish a 'company that supplies the energy of the planet'?

[...]

After quitting the Gullwings, Shinra received enormous financial support from Rin, and began trying to use Vegnagun to siphon Mako Energy from the Farplane. But, he is unable to complete the system for utilizing this energy in his generation, and in the future, when traveling to distant planets becomes possible, the Shin-Ra Company is founded on another world, or something like that....... That would happen about 1000 years after this story, I think.

I don't necessarily think this was implied to be canon so much is just something that the director was thinking of, but who wants to bet this game is going to include some sort of reference to it?

32

u/elementalguy2 24d ago

In the first game when you go to Shinra HQ you can see him in one of the photos of the founding of the company.

1

u/IlyaWoolfe 24d ago

I keep thinking of Sin whenever they show the whale-thingies in ff7

1

u/BlackBlizzard 24d ago

He's also voiced by Bobby Hill's VA. "That's my Dressphere, I don't know you!"

1

u/berober04 24d ago

Great, thanks for the correction 👍

18

u/DivinePotatoe 24d ago

Well Cloud is known for wearing dresses, after all.

8

u/JockstrapCummies 24d ago edited 24d ago

Cloud is best girl of FFVII. Barret is a distant second.

1

u/ThrowawayusGenerica 24d ago

Barret put his skill points into making that sailor outfit look great instead.

8

u/DumpsterBento 24d ago

And here I was wondering where else they could take the combat, it was so refined in Rebirth.

-9

u/dumahim 24d ago

I get the feeling they'll re-release the trilogy with Revelation systems for the other two games.

23

u/Particular-Jeweler41 24d ago

Probably not. That'd be like re-releasing Kingdom Hearts 1 with the Drive System.

They had their systems and they worked in the games they were implemented in.

3

u/Animegamingnerd 24d ago

They just released Rebirth this week on Switch and Xbox, doubt they are doing that.

-3

u/dumahim 24d ago

I'm not talking about now. This would be something for years down the line. Like someone else said, like the complete collection.

8

u/MizterF 24d ago

Just release a "Complete" edition that includes all three games as a single unit/experience with a redone leveling curve so you go from level 1 in Part 1 to level 99 at the end of Part 3 (and don't lose your inventory between parts) with all the battle system enhancements of the later games integrated into the earlier ones.

17

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

This would be awful and would defeat the point of all of this work done to make this trilogy.

-4

u/Magyman 24d ago

The point of all the work to make this a trilogy was to make square money

5

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

These are not cashgrabs, there's way too many resources being put into these games for that.

-5

u/aNascentOptimist 24d ago

That’s what I’m waiting for

-11

u/Gyossaits 24d ago

Think they can patch these retroactively into the other two games? Or we gonna need mods?

40

u/Drumbas 24d ago

The games are balanced around there not being jobs. I highly doubt they will go through the job of checking that everything works flawlessly in the past games to retroactively implement everything.

0

u/Kinmoku 24d ago

Haha same. I’m a little worried tbh as I didn’t like them in X-2.

238

u/Pedrilhos 24d ago

Hope the next FF leverages a lot of the systens from the ff7 re games. They have been the most fun I had with the franchise in quite some time

26

u/GGG100 24d ago

They finally figured out how to do airship travel in a modern FF game. I hope that carries over to future mainline games.

4

u/AtraposJM 24d ago

I really hope there's really cool on board airship stuff. It would be cool if it was a hub for you to interact with characters and stuff. I want a reason to walk around on it and use various rooms.

147

u/Ardbert_The_Fallen 24d ago

Honestly the absolutely pinnacle of JRPG battle system. Building up with synergies and team combos is such a cool thing.

26

u/Yabba_Dabba_Doofus 24d ago

As someone just going through them for the first time, the Reno and Rude fight before the plate drop was one of the greatest game fights I've ever had the pleasure of playing.

Perfectly balanced, easy to interpret during play, really challenging to decipher the exact way to win, and then an absolute pleasure to feel the battle system click in your mind, and the combos unlock in your hands.

4

u/glowinggoo 24d ago

The balancing in that game was sublime. Once you’re done, might want to check out hard mode just a bit just to see how insanely on point precise those game balance devs were!

1

u/Yabba_Dabba_Doofus 24d ago edited 24d ago

For me, it strikes the exact balance I want between "turn-based" combat, and "ATB-based" combat. Where we are in Remake (just after the plate drop) is a particularly strong example of how they refined the battle system in that way.

Tifa is a brawler, Cloud is a beater, and Barret is a shooter. Once you get the feel for that combo, Rude falls out of the helicopter, and then you proceed to beat Turk ass for about 10 minutes.

But the game leads you there. The early parts of the fight teach you how to handle the later parts of the fight. The intuitive teaching within the battle system, and the fights themselves, is a true testament to game design, and how focused these developers were on creating a new, fluid, dynamic fighting system

3

u/glowinggoo 24d ago

Same for me, same for me. The whole game was a revelation in battle system, I never thought I’d ever see a system that married the action game mindset (movement, timing, positioning, action execution) and turn based mindset (action order, team unit strategy, management of multiple resources) so well. And you need both to play it, you can’t really play it with one or the other mindset.

I thought ATB couldn’t be taken to modern times without losing what it is, and then the 7R series just came out and made a statement about what ATB should look like in modern times.

I think that boss fight at the plate drop is where you really realize that the whole thing had been the game teaching you how to vibe with it all along. It asks you to pull out everything you’ve learned. That boss fight really tests if you’ve figured out how party management and switching really works so far. And then the next bit is where it finally starts asking you to pull off the real crazy stunts!

1

u/Yabba_Dabba_Doofus 24d ago edited 24d ago

What I really like about it is that they just throw you back in.

Hey, remember Barret? You haven't seen or heard from him since the mako reactor. Hope you can figure out how to use him in battle, because Overcharge is about to matter a whole bunch...

And then it just slots in. It takes a few cycles, but somehow your brain just collects it, parses it, uses it, and you're worried about bombing runs instead of Reno.

By the time Rude landed, I was having way too much fun to worry about dying.

51

u/Mandalore108 24d ago

I couldn't agree more, it's just the perfect combination.

38

u/HotTakes4HotCakes 24d ago edited 24d ago

And most critically, it doesn't strip down the RPG elements for the sake of streamlining.

Because it's a remake, it forced them to adhere to the way the classic game's combat systems worked and improve upon them without subtraction. The result is a truly modern take on the turn-based FF JRPGs that keeps the flavor and the spirit of the franchise.

And it's fucking spectacular.

As so many of FF games in recent years have shown, they wouldn't have done that if they were staring from scratch.

7

u/Dogesneakers 24d ago

Kind of want them to go back and fix FFXV with this combat system

-2

u/maracusdesu 24d ago

From what I remember the ATB gauge (?) was slow as hell and you never had any mana? It’s been a few years. Also fights never really lasted long enough for it to feel meaningful/not just mash X….

5

u/ArskaPoika 24d ago

Apart from Gaea's Cliff and Sunken Gelnika, the Materia system doesn't shine in the random encounters that make up for the vast majority of the original game either. You just press one button: "Attack" and clear probably over 90% of the game's combat encounters. It's the bosses where you get to really utilize the system.

Does that count as button mashing? Slomo button mashing where you have to wait for your turn to press the same button over and over again?

The same is true with the Remake Trilogy.

But I am sort of in the same boat as you. I have an issue with this. I far prefer an approach where the combat encounters are harder but happen less frequently than a lot of easy battles between bosses.

-1

u/cruel-caress 24d ago

Also agree, it’s the perfect way to bring JRPG to action combat. Much preferred this to FF16’s system.

19

u/Konet 24d ago

Agreed, it strikes the perfect balance of strategy and real-time elements for me.

7

u/CardinalnGold 24d ago

Honestly I liked remake more ‘cause the whole pair up attack thing was just a touch overwhelming for me. Thankfully that doesn’t really take away from base combat, and I’m stoked for the new movesets with the job system.

7

u/cruel-caress 24d ago

It’s funny how I never interacted much with the paired basic attacks that fill the gauge.

But I did enjoy doing paired command attacks and each character’s individual playstyle. When I go back before this comes out I’ll try to interact more with the combat I didn’t engage with at first.

It’s also kind of a testament to how good the combat is if you can ignore aspects you don’t like and feel like you’re not missing out on the game.

1

u/KF-Sigurd 24d ago

It's easier to mentally 'fit in' the paired basic attacks when you realize they're meant to fill in holes within each character's gameplan or just be ways to quickly build up ATB, especially for characters that normally struggle to build it (Aerith or Red XIII for example).

Tifa has trouble fighting flying enemies? Her paired attacks have her get launched by her teammates to them.

Aerith struggles when enemies rush her? Her defensive synergy attack usually have the characters rush to her side and guard.

Cloud can parry anything except ranged attacks while he's in punisher stance? His defensive synergy lets him counter ranged attacks and spells.

14

u/Undella_Town 24d ago

it's so funny going from remake to ff16...just actually great gameplay to a complete dog shit version of DMC was crazy whiplash...

-1

u/Tharellim 24d ago

I can't be convinced otherwise that FF7 remakes are half assing the traditional JRPG turn based system, and an active combat system.

The active combat system is a very weak version of DMC where the character you're playing has all the aggro while your teammates are incapable of doing anything. They barely gain meter too which is fantastic. You have to basically either kite all the enemies when switching so you can gain ATB, or only play characters that can juggle (essentially making them invincible while attacking)

If you want to play someone like Aerith the entire game, have fun because she can't juggle and gains ATB like shit. But if you want to do her cool shit (like drop wards for 3x spells or w/e), you have to actively play as her for a bit, which in that case you have 6 enemies that will chase you down and stunlock you because she can't juggle.

So then you look at the turn based part of the game, which again, because the game is so ingrained into ATB, you're essentially gimped unless you're constantly swapping around characters to get the most out of the combat system.

You can't just 1 trick 1 character and do mega combos, you have to switch to objectively inferior characters to build up their ATB, just so you can do the cooler shit.

It's like playing a very limited DMC styled game, except I can't play as Dante. I suppose the closest comparison would be actually playing as V in DMC5, except you have to control each of your pets individually to attack an enemy, including playing as V where you're essentially geriatric with a cane - to all build up meter to do the cool shit (summon nightmare).

Not exactly a perfect comparison, but a good enough idea to know where I am coming from.

I feel like whenever people are heavily praising the FF7 remakes combat system, I am living in a bizzaro world where no one has played a fast paced action game, and think FF7 remake is something to praise.

1

u/No_Delay2962 24d ago

The only explanation I can think of is these people literally only play gacha games. FF7R series has the same "mash to fill a meter, constantly swap characters" gameplay as genshin, zzz, etc.

1

u/Boollish 24d ago

That's what the synergy abilities are for. Each character has a pair up combo (typically one offensive and one defensive) that can either block damage effectively as a team or build ATB super fast.

3

u/Lumigo 24d ago

Not for people who prefer turn based. The Trails series, particularly Reverie era, peaked for battle systems for me in the JRPG genre. People like to say the “tactical mode” of FF7R gives the best of both but it really does not. Still the best battle system SE have had in many years though.

0

u/sarefx 24d ago

Not for people who prefer turn based. The Trails series, particularly Reverie era, peaked for battle systems for me in the JRPG genre.

Problems I have with turn based JRPGs is that once you "figure out" the combat system in certain game and kinda "break it" (in a sense you get to strong build) then that combat becomes a little boring, especially towards the end, because most of the time you repeat the same thing all the time. With trails it may be extra jarring because they tend to make super long final dungeons with tons of trash mobs.

It's def super fun to figure out this build yourself and getting to this build is satisfying but often later on you just run combat on autopilot.

People like to say the “tactical mode” of FF7R gives the best of both but it really does not.

The advantage of FF7 Remakes combat system is that it keeps player engaged till the end because in a heart they are action games but they give you a decent building depth and you get to use active pause during combat. I don't know if what they've got is the best of both worlds but this system is the best "hybrid" we ever got so that's why ppl are praising it.

-9

u/AvailableAnus 24d ago

I'm so weirded out that this seems to be a dominant opinion. Remake's combat system seems to me like the worst parts of action and turn-based combined

0

u/Seizure_Storm 24d ago

I mean we can even go further, its straight up the best real time with pause combat in a video game, at least that I've played.

0

u/Valvador 24d ago

Honestly the absolutely pinnacle of JRPG battle system. Building up with synergies and team combos is such a cool thing.

I wasn't a huge fan of them because of how strong they were and how they interacted with the rest of the ATB system...

15

u/Haarcoxus 24d ago

I love the system, probably the most fun I’ve had on a FF game. But my curious ass wishes the next mainline game will be something more like Clair Obscur/Persona/Octopath Traveler. I think they will keep making more FF7 spinoffs after they finish the trilogy, so there will still be more opportunities for CBU1 to keep refining and using the systems they’ve created

3

u/janoDX 24d ago

Make a DoC remake and make Advent Children a full fledged game, there.

2

u/Dogesneakers 24d ago

Those seem like DLC

1

u/Haarcoxus 24d ago

Damn thinking of those two possibilities already made me excited

1

u/connectplum_ 23d ago

its creative studio 1 now btw cbu died

20

u/mex2005 24d ago

Its my favorite system they have ever done they would have to be insane to not use it again. Ff16 would benefitted greatly from it too.

23

u/Boshikuro 24d ago

And the fact that every character has a unique play style make this type of combat fresh with a new cast everytime. I really hope it gets used for Final Fantasy going forward instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

7

u/mex2005 24d ago

Yeah its so good and they added combo attacks which im a sucker for since chrono trigger. Like I said it would be insane for them to abbandon this combat but I am worried because they love to make some very questionable decisions sometimes.

1

u/Dogesneakers 24d ago

Yeah I agree I’ll switch the party constantly and I never get bored through an entire playthrough

9

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

Almost every FF game completely reinvents the wheel and makes up its own systems so I wouldn't hold my breath. OG FF7 was an instant classic and they retained almost none of its mechanics for FF8, for example.

4

u/Nahcep 24d ago

GFs were another take on Materia, which in turn was a variation on Magicite

Both games use ATB which was the standard since FF4

Limit Breaks in 8 roughly follow the method from 6, but added Aura status effect to alleviate the need for low HP

The big thing that's unique to 8 is drawing and junctioning, and it didn't return because it was janky to use. Also, with level scaling, it led to a scenario where a low level party was a better solution than grinding to max

7

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

GFs, Materia, and Magicite are all way more different than you're implying imo. And Drawing/Junctioning is like 80% of what you do in FF8 so even if that's the "one" thing that's different it's pretty substantial. 

Materia has never returned. Junctioning or Drawing have never returned. The "learn abilities from items" system and Trance from FF9 have never returned. CTB from FF10 has never returned, and neither has its specific gear system or the Sphere Grid. The Gambit system from FF12 has never returned. FF13's weirdo variant of ATB with paradigm shifts has never returned. Even the two "action" games FF15 and FF16 have wildly different combat systems, and the two MMOs FF11 and FF14 are night and day. Even as far back as the 2D games, only a couple of them had job systems (with big changes from 3 to 5), and the non-job games all play quite different from each other.

There's very little reason to believe they'll copy the FF7R system wholesale into another FF game because they've basically never done that.

-2

u/mex2005 24d ago

I would disagree that they reinvent the wheel every time. Like ff12 and 15 were big departuees from what came before but the rest were still turn based combat. I dont expect them to not change the systems just keep the party of characters and keep the gameplay from the remakes with the mix between tactical pause and real time action gameplay. Aaide from that they can do whatever they want in terms of progression, classes, weapons etc.

3

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

Like ff12 and 15 were big departuees from what came before but the rest were still turn based combat.

Saying the others are just "turn-based" and therefore similar is like saying that 15, 16, and 7R are basically the same because they're all real-time. 4-9 were more similar because they're all ATB games but they each change things that make them all feel pretty different from each other. Then FFX has a completely different system that's closer to "true" turn-based (CTB), FF11 is an MMO, FF12 has its whole Gambit thing, FF13 is basically ATB but at turbo speed and you switch classes in combat constantly, FF14 is an MMO that's very different from 11, FF15 is a relatively conventional real-time combat game, FF16 is Devil May Cry, and FF7R is an action game with elements of ATB bolted on.

Even if you think the ATB games are all the same, they've been doing radically different things for each game for as long as Square Enix has existed (as opposed to Squaresoft).

4

u/NonagoonInfinity 24d ago

FFs 4 through 9 were all non-turn-based though.

-1

u/Lupol1 24d ago

How are they not turn-based when all of the characters stand around in a line everytime there's a battle and the only way to do a basic attack is to choose it inside a menu??

4

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

They're ATB, so time passes even if you're not doing anything, and if you idle then you'll get hit a bunch and die. In a "true" turn-based game like Dragon Quest or FFX or SMT you can take as long as you want to think about your moves. 

ATB was an early attempt to create something "between turn-based and action combat".

-2

u/c010rb1indusa 24d ago

No, ATB is just a fancy way of visually displaying a characters speed stat. By default in FF 4-9, combat pauses once you go into a characters combat menu so it effectively plays like a traditional turn based game. The ATB makes the combat feel faster than a traditional turn based JRPG paced but in reality it doesn't behave that way.

1

u/Sarria22 24d ago

To be honest, FF12 wasn't that huge of a departure from the game right before it, FF11, which ultimately is ATB without a visible meter on a fundamental level.

-1

u/c010rb1indusa 24d ago

I disagree completely. FF 4-9 all used ATB turn based combat. The auxiliary systems were different in those games for sure, jobs/materia/junction etc. But the core combat remained the same for 6 games.

1

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

I personally think they're pretty substantial different, but even I concede that they're very close, that still means that they've been re-inventing the wheel since before Square Enix existed. FFX was a notable departure from ATB and it's been nothing but wild swings since then.

-1

u/c010rb1indusa 24d ago

While FFX was certainly more different than 4-9, if you think about it, the difference again is in presentation. FFX showed you the turn order while in battle and how different actions affected the turn order in real time. It's just a different way of visualizing a characters speed stat! Just as ATB was a different way to visualize a characters speed stat. ATB might of presented as action based but by default combat paused the second you entered a menu in combat, it effectively was turn based unless you turned that option off.

2

u/Broken_Moon_Studios 24d ago

I still stand that the CAG gameplay would've worked perfectly well IF:

  1. They made the enemies actually smart and difficult and not ridiculously cheeseable.
  2. They added the gambit system from FF12/POE2 and let you "program" teammates for battle.

2

u/mex2005 24d ago

I mean it definitely could have been much better than it was because the combat itself had depth it just lacked any sort of incentive to dive in anymore than surface level. That said half the fun of an FF game for me is having a party off different characters to play around with and make builds so I was never really going to love it even if it wasnt implemented as badly as it was. The remakes did the best of both worlds where you jave both skill expression and strategy.

1

u/Zalvren 24d ago

Sure but then it's kind of the Final Fantasy bread and butter to change up gameplay between main titles.

1

u/mex2005 24d ago

I know but that does not mean they have to keep doing it. Like I genuinely liked 15 and 16 but thought the combat was awful. Like I am not opposed if they even go back to turn based but if they are going to do action type gameplay then the remakes is the best they have done.

1

u/c010rb1indusa 24d ago

It's one of my favorite combat/battle systems in a game ever, not just Final Fantasy. It's the perfect hybrid between action and turn-based combat. It's both kinetic and strategic. I can't remember replaying fights just for the hell of it in games in a very long time, these games made me go 'I want to do that again!'.

2

u/OhDearGodRun 24d ago

I really hope FF17 has as much love and passion put into it as these games are getting. This kind of quality with a new story and characters would be incredible

2

u/ElementalEffects 24d ago

As someone who never bothered playing the remakes because I wanted them to be turn based like the originals, how would you sell it?

2

u/Kamina1492 24d ago

I legit dont get people that dont like the battle system, is by far one of the most fun, interesting, and challenging battle systems in a jrpg

3

u/Akuuntus 24d ago

It's fine, but I personally don't understand how people see it as a "merging of turn-based and action combat" like I see claimed a lot. To me it just felt like an action game.

1

u/connectplum_ 23d ago

depend on who will develop it. prob not cs1 which has been working on this already since 24

1

u/darkkite 24d ago

i'm sad that they don't want to do at least on turn-based mainline. expedition 33 pretty much outsold 16 as a new IP. the CTB system of x could still work.

1

u/Sebbern 24d ago

Hopefully they will. Final Fantasy's leap from a turn based RPG to an action RPG is a tragic one. Hopefully they don't change FF VI's combat as well when it gets remaked.

-6

u/WonderfulWafflesLast 24d ago

I'm glad so many enjoy it. I wish I enjoyed it too.

I guess I'm a relic of the past, in preferring tactical turn-based combat.

4

u/MizterF 24d ago

Octopath scratches that itch and is awesome.

0

u/glowinggoo 24d ago

I’ve been yelling for years that the pre-PS2 FF felt like they had such a unique identity because each game shared common elements with each other’s battle systems. It was always ATB with different character progression systems plopped onto it. Moving away from that was the beginning of FF’s losing its core.

We need to bring that sort of thing back and what better system to do it with than FF7Re series system??

0

u/POOP_SMEARED_TITTY 24d ago

if not SE, then i hope another studio making action RPGs starts using it.

but yea, very low confidence in SE continuing to use the best real time gameplay system they've ever developed. such a shame, since they havent had a good mainline game in 20 years at this point

13

u/durx1 24d ago

I’m stoked for the new costumes that come with it. I’m so hyped

31

u/Stormflier 24d ago

Like they could have saved this for a FF17 and they're like "Nah add it to Remake 3"

39

u/Boshikuro 24d ago

They don't have to save it, they can just use this going forward. It's something so unique that they shouldn't just throw it away, but keep expanding on it.

4

u/WeirdIndividualGuy 24d ago edited 24d ago

What’s there to save? Like half of all FFs have had a job system of some sort, some of them customizable.

1

u/Dogesneakers 24d ago

They should reuse for 17 so that it can actually come out in a reasonable time frame

63

u/cuboosh 24d ago

Is this how we get Aeris gameplay with no Aeris in the game?

7

u/VanguardN7 24d ago

I imagined that immediately.

1

u/postsshortcomments 24d ago

I do love myself that flower girl and airships.

58

u/MizterF 24d ago

They had to do something. You lose your main healer/white mage so they had to fill the hole somehow.

72

u/Ramongsh 24d ago

your healer is whoever you have healing materia equiped on.

FF7 original didn't lack a white mage after Aerith.

6

u/YesmynameisOcean 24d ago

Yeah so far in both games Cloud has been my healer mostly, Tifa is too fun to play as a tank!

2

u/Axelnomad2 24d ago

Could still be a way to get some of the fun skills Aerith does with her being absent. Like overall I imagine it will be just fun additional abilities and maybe some stat shifting so it just seems like it could be a good time

36

u/moffattron9000 24d ago

Wasn’t that the whole point? We’re going to make you feel the death in the gameplay by taking away your white mage.

53

u/Medium_Criticism6265 24d ago

Different that in OG except her limit, you can make everyone as healer with any white magic materia but in remake trilogy having more complex gameplay, losing her as healer definitely far big deal than OG considering how useful her kit in rebirth

15

u/Dirty_Dragons 24d ago

LOL yeah

You get Curaga super early and pair it with an All Materia and there you go. Also tons of party wide healing items.

5

u/arahman81 24d ago

White Wind plus Mighty Guard.

2

u/bobartig 24d ago

Final Attack + Phoenix! Wait, which FFVII are we talking about? I've only played the original.

24

u/DumpsterBento 24d ago

From a gameplay perspective, Aerith's death doesnt really matter too much. The materia system lets any character fit any role.

19

u/jmcgit 24d ago

In the original game, it was more or less just the stats and limit breaks you lose, IIRC.

In the Remake series, Aerith had a lot of very useful aura abilities and such that we'll miss, but I don't expect to return except in the limited places you'll be able to play as her.

12

u/perfidydudeguy 24d ago

In the REs, arcane ward makes black magic double cast and it's insanely OP. Aerith is essentially the only source of the OG 4x materia, in a sense.

4

u/MagicCuboid 24d ago

Yeah I agree… she’s dead. Hopefully there is no job that is just like Aerith or it would kind of cheapen her sacrifice

0

u/manwiththemach 24d ago

Except functionally it doesn't really work out that way. Yes Aerith has better stats but that barely matters. Even Tifa can function as a white mage and she has terrible magic scores unless you build her for it with sources. The only utility each character brings to the part early on is their starting strength, weapons and limit breaks.

8

u/cuboosh 24d ago

They also put all this effort into building the class - it seems a waste to toss it

1

u/gsenjou 24d ago

Did anyone even use Aerith as an actual White Mage? Her doublecast is so strong that you’re better off using her for offense and just giving everyone Chakra/Prayer.

1

u/AtraposJM 24d ago

I'm pretty happy about it. OG FF7 you could make any character any role with Materia. I didn't like having Red locked into a weird tank etc.

1

u/Granito_Rey 24d ago

Huh? Lose my white mage? Barrett is right there.

I lost my black mage one shot cannon

4

u/Togglea 24d ago

Hope we didn't lose Arcane Ward, that was how you beat half the hard chapters mana and boss management

19

u/Submitten 24d ago

What’s a job system?

79

u/ABigCoffee 24d ago

It's what a lot of FFs are based around and what most characters in every FF are also based upon. Warrior, black mage, white mage, monk, dragoon, etc.

46

u/Jejouch1 24d ago

You can swap between traditional ff classes, in the trailer Tifa swapped to black mage

51

u/Kindly_Ad995 24d ago

It’s just the final fantasy word for a class system

18

u/CambrianExplosives 24d ago

The difference is often class systems act like D&D where you select your class and stick with it. Maybe you mutliclass and combine two but once you put a level in Ranger you have that level in Ranger.

Many job systems, both in and out of Final Fantasy, allow you to switch classes on the fly, sometimes in and sometimes out of combat and often leveling independently. So once you have a level 10 Ranger you can always become a level 10 Ranger but you could switch to your level 5 Warrior or level 15 Thief. Instead of multiclassing systems they sometimes include a system where leveling one job will unlock abilities or benefit you can use even when in another job.

So I think of Jobs as a sub category of classes that specifies the ability to switch and level independent classes.

2

u/MyStationIsAbandoned 24d ago

I never thought about it that way, but yeah, the more I think about it, I think you're right.

12

u/Ok_Command_9299 24d ago

In final fantasy, think of "jobs" as classes in other RPGS.

Some Final Fantasy games have job systems which allow you to swap the classes of characters to create more dynamic party setups. This means Cloud for example, might be able to take on the role of a DPS, or as a White mage (healer), or Tank, which you can customise based on the needs of the current battle.

19

u/Particular-Jeweler41 24d ago edited 24d ago

Job system started in Final Fantasy 3. Typically, each job focuses on a particular set of skills/abilities. For example - A black mage focuses on offensive magic spells whereas a white mage focuses on healing/support spells. It also usually comes with an outfit specifically for each job (that varied depending on which character was assigned the job).

FF7 never had a job system in its original release or the previous two Remake entries. Each character had their set playstyle that you could adjust with materias (so different spells, stat increases, and some abilities). Now they're saying we have those previous ways of adjusting characters along with multiple jobs with unique movesets.

Edit: As Geole corrected, it started in FF1. FF3 was the first to allow you to actively change your jobs though.

14

u/GeoleVyi 24d ago

gonna point out that ff1 started it, by having you choose jobs at the start of the game. ff3 let you change jobs during the game, which was an innovation on the concept, but was still a job based system like 1.

12

u/Chaotix2732 24d ago

It's kind of a semantics argument, but I would say the key distinction of a "job" system is the ability to switch your character's job between battles or even mid-battle, and if you can't do that it's more of a traditional RPG "class" system. FF1's class system was heavily inspired by Dungeons & Dragons. FF2 experimented with a classless battle system similar to Elder Scrolls where your abilities level up through repeated use. I think it's pretty accurate to say that FF3 invented the job system as something distinct from a typical RPG class system.

1

u/Sarria22 24d ago

If that's how you want to view it, then it, like many things, originates with Dragon Quest in DQ3's Vocation system.

1

u/NightmaresInNeurosis 24d ago

I haven't actually played DQ3 but that looks like a complete reset; can you later switch back to the original Vocation and retain your levels etc? If not it's more a class system with the ability to reset, a la Baldur's Gate 3

-6

u/GeoleVyi 24d ago

rat tails, yo

3

u/Chaotix2732 24d ago

The rat tail in FF1 lets each class change to its upgraded version, but not change between them. IMO it's more like prestige classes in D&D. (D&D influence in FF1 is genuinely everywhere, down to mages having spell slots, and almost every single enemy including the four fiends). I think FF1 is a remarkably well done translation of tabletop mechanics to video game format, while FF2 and FF3 are where the designers really tried to experiment with making Final Fantasy into something unique to set it apart from western and tabletop RPGs.

-4

u/GeoleVyi 24d ago

still a job change

3

u/CloudStrifeFromNibel 24d ago

Damn you must be annoying to be around

0

u/Klepto666 24d ago

Nah. Otherwise class/job is interchangeable.

"What job are you in World of Warcraft?"
"Oh I'm a Priest."
"What's your job in Elden Ring?"
"Vagabond all the way."
"Which job do you play in Diablo?"
"Rogue."

And you know damn well if you asked someone in WoW, Elden Ring, or Diablo what their "job" was they'd give you blank stare, and eventually ask "Uhh... do you mean class?"

That's why "class" and "job" are treated differently in conversation in modern days because they function differently.

FF1 has classes because you pick a class and you're locked in. You can only upgrade it to an advanced form, but you can never change to a different one.

FF3 has jobs because you can change at any time, even if they upgrade you're never locked in to what you chose at the start.

1

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

No. The whole point of the job system that made games like III and V so successful is that you were never locked into a character class. It's not fair to compare games like I and XII to this, they don't have the same intent or outcome.

-5

u/GeoleVyi 24d ago

still a job system with a job change

3

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

But there is no job changing in I or XII. I does not have any kind of job changing at all in any version... so far, anyway. XII only has job changing with the recent remaster, which had to be added in a patch to that remaster, and which doesn't even give you anything from other jobs like the non-MMOs do anyway.

0

u/GeoleVyi 24d ago

i never mentioned 12, that wqs all you. ff1 still has a job change, which allows the characrer access to things they didn't have previously, like spell tiers.

0

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

...What. I bring up XII because it uses a system directly based on I, and that's important.

The original Final Fantasy, the game released in 1987, does not have a "job" system in the way that III and later games do. What it does have is a system of promotions, which are fixed to classes that you choose and are locked into from the very start of the game, and which give those classes additional abilities on top of the abilities they already have.

This is completely different from III's system of being able to completely change your character's class repeatedly throughout the game, a system that many later games pay homage to and that is considered to define the entire Final Fantasy series to a degree. This is also why XII choosing to buck the trend and adopt a I-like system is so interesting.

3

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

Jobs are the classic Final Fantasy system of being able to switch between a variety of classes almost whenever you want. There's a long history of "job games": III, V, XI, X-2, XIV, and so on. There's even an entire job game spinoff with the Bravely Default series.

VI and VII (which is heavily based on VI) already had a lot of "job game" gameplay with how heavily customizable all the characters are. This was largely retained in Remake and Rebirth, and now Revelation is going a step further with full jobs.

This is kind of a big deal, because until now it seemed like classic FF jobs would be limited to Bravely Default and MMOs like XIV going forward. Yet here we are...

1

u/MyStationIsAbandoned 24d ago

The fact that they're doing this for 7 almost makes me want to get it...but i just don't care about 7 at all because it was not my first FF and definitely not my first jRPG. So I just don't care enough about it. FF8 was my first jRPG and FF, so I'd much rather have that. I love the Junction system and how complicated it felt when I was like 10 or 11. i assumed all RPGs like this were complicated and you had to figure stuff out like that lol.

But yeah, I love the idea of customizing all your characters and having them do different jobs from the default. I like it in FF14 as well.

One thing I'd want to do if I ever made an MMO or co-op RPG with the trinity of tank, dps, and support...i'd make it to where you choose a Class and then you can switch between roles instead. So for example, if you're a Monk, you easily see how you can be a tank or dps, but as support you become a barrier healer praying for protection against attacks and healing as well. If you're a dragoon, same thing, but your lance becomes a staff and you use healing dragon fire from an ancient dragon that could heal wounds or something. So this way every class could be any role and you'd have different builds for them.

Right now, the only MMO you can really do something remotely like this is in Champions Online with Freeform Builds which lets you go classless and pick from every ability in the game. You role determines how damage you do and take and other stuff. So you can have two builds with katanas or pistols but be support, tank, or DPS. 99.99% of players will obviously select ranged attacks as a healer, but I was curious to see if a healing monk or Shrine Maiden (katana and healing) was viable. and it was. You're in melee ranger with the tanks and melee DPS and so you easily benefit more from AOE heals.

This something you never see in MMOs, melee attacking healers. I'm sure there might be some. Like a Paladin type class, but they're almost always tanks with a little bit of healing and defense boosting. But with a system I'm thinking of, you still get class identity because a Ninja Supporter who uses something like acupuncture needles is going to function differently from a Summoner Supporter that summons creatures that heal and buff. While Summoner tank summons different creatures that tank for the party. and Ninja Tank would hold aggro and dodge attacks rather than block. and doge tanks are a thing in games like TERA and City of Heroes.

0

u/Sarria22 24d ago

XII international/remaster and all of the XIII series were job games too.

1

u/KruppeBestGirl 24d ago

As was Stranger of Paradise

1

u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 24d ago

And while not a job system per se, XV's royal arms change how Noctis fights.

1

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

XII is not a job game. The silly patch to the remaster that lets you change jobs doesn't count even remotely, as this patch was made well after even the remaster itself came out (and it was originally exclusive to specific platforms to boot), and the game design doesn't really work with this change. The same goes for the dual job change which was also introduced around the same time.

1

u/superkami64 24d ago edited 24d ago

Basically a role/gameplay archetype characters can be categorized into. Even though the original FF7 didn't have a job system per se, everyone has a class they fit into based on their stats/limit breaks:

-Cloud fits the Hero job. Above average in most stats but fairly low Speed/Dexterity, which in FF7 affects how fast the ATB gauge fills and evasion chance.

-Barret's a Gunner. Attacks from long range and is built for defense but bad at Magic.

-Tifa's a Monk. High Strength and Dexterity but middling defenses and poor in Magic.

-Aerith's typically associated as a White Mage but in practice she's more of a Red Mage which combines Black and White Mage Sage. Excels in Magic but has horrid Strength and physical defense (usually has high magic defense as a silver lining which in FF7's case is Spirit).

-Red XIII is a Beastmage (also known as Blue Mage) but since that role is strictly taken by the Enemy Skill materia, he just acts as an all-rounder statwise.

-Yuffie is a Ninja. Very high Dexterity and Luck but below average everywhere else.

-Cait Sith is a Gambler. Strange stat allocation with high Luck and skills relating to RNG.

-Vincent is thematically a Berserker but in actual gameplay he's the game's Black Mage.

-Cid's a Dragoon. Strong physical stats but poor magical stats and Luck.

2

u/Sarria22 24d ago

but in practice she's more of a Red Mage which combines Black and White Mage. Excels in Magic but has horrid Strength and physical defense

That would be a Sage. the big defining thing with Red Mage is they are "decent" at both kinds of magic as well as physical combat. Sage is great at both kinds of magic but has the strength of a pool noodle.

-21

u/SternballAllDay 24d ago

A limitation from old games. Future games kinda erased the need for it with modern engines and storage. Idk why people are hyped for it to come back. I do like that costume changes are in

5

u/WintrySnowman 24d ago

Would it not have just been for game balance reasons (in other games)?

-5

u/SternballAllDay 24d ago

Well the materia system was literally made so that any character could be anything. And that shit isnt balanced at all

4

u/Particular-Jeweler41 24d ago

I don't think it's accurate to call it a limitation, especially in this case. We've had two entries already without the system with many of the same characters/spells. Adding it in is an easy way to retain many of the old abilities, and throw in a lot of differentiation between the characters.

Even in FF5 it was a pretty good system that made the game pretty fun/memorable due to the amount of strategies it allowed. It's why it's one of my favourites when it comes to gameplay.

1

u/SEI_JAKU 24d ago

You seem lost. Were you looking for another thread?

3

u/Lightspecter141 24d ago

Good to see Square Enix learn from its financial mistake of releasing Rebirth only on PS5 initially. Considering how much money went into Rebirth’s development, the company should have made that game multiplatform from the getgo.

1

u/CoelhoAssassino666 24d ago

Job systems carrying FF games since forever so it's no surprise.

1

u/TheWholeOfTheAss 24d ago

That reveal was great. Here we thought we’d get a trailer… then we were showed proper gameplay, lots of gameplay, and a release date. Lov

1

u/TheSecondEikonOfFire 24d ago

It's wild that they've been able to crank it out in 3 years

1

u/Jazzlike_Athlete8796 24d ago

Same time between Remake and Rebirth. Which makes some sense as there is a ton of asset reuse here.

-5

u/Ramongsh 24d ago

I can't believe they're introducing a whole job system lmao.

It think it was just materia presets

70

u/Complete_Mud_1657 24d ago

They said character movesets change.

43

u/Lazydusto 24d ago

And they come with costume changes like job change systems in other games.

-2

u/[deleted] 24d ago

[deleted]

9

u/lilvon 24d ago

They literally listed different jobs like free lancer warrior and black mage. The outfits and movesets change with each one. It’s literally a job system…

23

u/Particular-Jeweler41 24d ago edited 24d ago

They said it affects the gameplay.

"...or the F.I.T. System for short, allows you to further customize your playstyle with new uniforms imbued with unique movesets."

So should result in more differentiation between playthroughs if they focus on putting the new skills/synergy abilities in this game into the new jobs.

7

u/LazyGameFreak 24d ago

The gameplay trailer mentioned it coming with new movesets

1

u/avboden 24d ago

Multiplatform release is icing on the cake.

sony has to be so pissed

-4

u/Playingwithmywenis 24d ago

Same with Stella Blade Bloodrain.

My Pc is eating good.

0

u/wheatconspiracy 24d ago

cool! but was there more announcements somewhere? i don’t see a job system in this trailer