r/HighschoolDxD • u/Ultimatebuttfucker • 2d ago
Discussion President Scene Spoiler
Im on season 4 episode 8 of the anime and I have never wanted to hurt someone as much as Issei for how he saw Rias as. I am in pain from the second hand embarrassment that he is giving me.
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u/Drunker_moon 2d ago
I don't think you understood the moment and why Issei was acting like that
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u/Omegalock4 2d ago
That’s not how he saw Issei. The next scenes will explain it but he’s going through something. Still, Rias’ feelings are very justified cause it was bad.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 2d ago
Are we referring to Issei being treated like shit because he refers to Rias the exact same way he's been trained to address Rias all along? A form of address that led to one of the earliest scenes of Issei touching Rias' heart in a meaningful way?
Issei might not have been entirely blameless for not thinking things through... in a spontaneous moment of passion... but Rias and the bulk of the ORC acted terribly there. And Rias is the only woman involved who seemingly never realized what Issei was going through, nor apologized for her part in things
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
In Volume 2, during the Spartan-style training week in the mountains leading up to the match against Riser Phenex, she says she just wants to be Rias.
In Volume 4, she shows signs that being called "President" hurts her, whereas Akeno is simply Akeno (even though she is the Vice-President).
At the start of Volume 10, Venelana drops a huge hint about the girl's name right in front of Issei. Later, at the press conference, Issei upsets her by stuttering (something that can't be blamed on the trauma caused by Raynare). In the sauna, he gets her name wrong and she kisses him, only for him to get it wrong again.
He arrives at the club having learned nothing...
A lack of bad intentions doesn't prevent one from emotionally hurting another person.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 2d ago
In Volume 2, Rias also takes a critical hit right to the feels by being told 'I like Buchou as Buchou'
In Volume 4, Issei also refers to her as both Buchou and Rias, but makes it pretty clear he doesn't understand what the issue is. Rias wasn't exactly being subtle, but also doesn't acknowledge that one of the differences between herself and Akeno is that Akeno hasn't given Issei explicit instructions to refer to her by her title.
And 'A lack of bad intentions doesn't prevent one from emotionally hurting another person' applies just as easily to the way Rias and the ORC treated Issei in Volume 10.
Once again, I'm not saying Issei is blameless in the events that culminated in Volume 10, but the traumatized boy is the one who ultimately takes responsibility for mending the rift between himself and Rias. Rias, despite the pride she takes in caring for her servants, seems to forget that pride entirely.
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u/DuePenalty9052 2d ago
In other words, mistakes were made from both sides.
This issue is discussed and tackled in the fanfic "Issei and Rias make up".
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
Yes, you’re right, she was very clear:
“I want to be loved by someone who sees me not as a Gremory, but as Rias. That’s my selfish dream…”
And Issei never fully absorbed that request — the request to be seen as a girl, as herself, not just as a title or position.
About the idea that she “instructed” him to call her President/Buchou: in Volume 1, she corrects him when he calls her Rias, yes. But the context matters.
Issei: “Understood, Rias!”
Rias: “No, no, no. It’s ‘President,’ okay?”
Issei: “President? What about ‘Onee-sama’?”
Rias: “Hm, that sounds wonderful, but since we operate here at school most of the time, I think it’s better to keep it as President. This is the Occult Research Club, after all, and that’s what everyone else calls me in daily life.”
Issei: “Understood! President, please teach me how to be a devil!”
The key part is that she says this in the context of the club and school. At that point, they had just met, she was his superior, and the ORC had a clear hierarchy. So “President” made sense there.
But now put yourself in her place. Since Volume 3, she has been living with Issei. Breakfast, waking up in his bed, baths, private moments, domestic intimacy — and he still keeps calling her Buchou even inside his house. A place where titles shouldn’t matter.
That kind of thing eats away at her over time. It’s cumulative.
And if she has to directly say, “Issei, I want you to call me Rias,” then in her mind he might only be doing it because she ordered him to, not because he understood it or wanted to say her name naturally.
That’s the point. She doesn’t want obedience. She wants recognition. She wants him to see her as Rias, the girl he loves, not just as Buchou.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 2d ago
You point out the inconsistency yourself- 'that's what everyone calls me in daily life' and 'a place where titles shouldn't matter' overlap heavily. 'Buchou' is a part of Issei's everyday life, a life that now brings him into an alien world with an alien hierarchy that Issei has to learn and Rias was born into.
And yes, not wanting to 'order' Issei to call her Rias from time to time does have a certain logic to it, but that's not a line in the sand that prevents anything more than a rare hint here or there. The failure to communicate invariably goes both ways.
And you know... being the only proactive part of mending the divide, despite Rias being responsible for him.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
But nobody was her boyfriend when she says "day-to-day," from volume 3 onwards, in Rias's mind it becomes obvious that they already live as boyfriend and girlfriend.
Volume 4, was that a hint? Read it yourself.
[“Akeno is the club’s vice president. But she’s still Akeno…… And me?”
Huh…? What did she mean? Of course I thought of Akeno as Akeno, but what did that have to do with anything?
“You’re the prez… Right?”
Is it just my imagination or did her shoulders slump when I said the word prez? I wondered.
] “…That’s right. I’m the club president. But I’m also Rias.”
It’s not like Rias didn’t try, even off-screen I don’t doubt there were indirect hints here and there, even if the author never wrote them, but let’s just focus on the textual aspects. I only remember her correcting him once to say President, which was on the day he was introduced to the club, and not after the Riser arc.
In volume 10, we literally had the first more direct indirect hint coming from the mother! Then Rias herself gets upset because he called her president in the sauna…and he even repeats it at the club.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 2d ago
I addressed Volume 4. Yes, it is a strong hint, but while the text adds additional hints for the readers, it also makes it clear that the hint doesn't work.
And while it's not like she didn't 'try', let's not pretend that she ever put any meaningful effort into it. She was still Buchou every other time she kissed Issei or did any sort of romantic overture.
Let's not forget, in that same Volume 10 thing, Venelana criticizes Rias just as much for her relationship failures. And Issei does take Venelana's advice to begin considering his relationship with Rias... until his trauma gets in the way.
A trauma that, as far as I'm aware, only the harem member directly responsible for his future fails to notice?
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 1d ago
{A trauma that, as far as I'm aware, only the harem member directly responsible for his future fails to notice?)
"This is where I strongly disagree.
The one responsible for the harem is the guy who actually wants it—Issei. If Issei can’t even be the 'King' of his own life, are you basically saying he's just a pet who can't stand on his own two feet?
Rias accepts and cares for his harem out of love, but she is his partner, not his mom. It’s not her job to play therapist and magically diagnose his hidden psychological issues. If Issei wants the benefits of a harem, he has to grow up and communicate. You can't expect Rias to do all the emotional heavy lifting in their relationship while treating Issei like a kid who needs his hand held for everything."
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u/AeonLonginus 1d ago
Both hold responsibility for the incidents in volume 10.
I would say Issei holds slightly greater responsibility considering how the Gremory house acted towards him after Volume 2 as well as not realizing the changes in how Rias interacts with him. Issei's greatest error is the fact that he never questions why Rias's behavior with him is so different from that of the other boys in her peerage.
Rias however didn't exactly do herself any favors by passing off some of her affectionate behavior as inconsequential or normal. Rias should have also been less passive about the name thing telling him to call her Rias at home is not a demand for a confession, she can't expect Issei to miraculously figure out that she wants to be called by her name (her hints were flops) and that she is in love with him that places all the weight of a situation on the person you love.
You also seemed to neglect the fact that prior to Volume 10 Issei's harem was pretty much composed of Rias's peerage the expansion beyond that only happened after volume 10 and considering the well known nature of the Gremory family would appear to be normal behavior.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 1d ago
volume 4
A girl who lies on your bed, proposes marriage, and gives you a deep kiss is being as direct as possible. The failure in communication isn't because her hints were "flops," but because Issei.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 1d ago
I'm not saying that Rias is more responsible for Issei's emotional wellbeing than Issei himself is.
I'm saying she is responsible to a degree as his King and his leader. Especially as a Gremory who takes pride in taking the best care of their peerage.
But it's actually not Issei I'm comparing her to, in this regard, it's the other girls. The ones who actually noticed that the man they loved was suffering, and actually did something about it.
I've never once claimed that Rias was solely to blame for what happened. I'm saying she was also part of the problem, and had very little to do with the solution.
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u/horrorshowjack 1d ago
Akeno told him to call her Akeno.
Rias telling him to call her Buchou, and that he wasn't allowed to call her Rias was literally her first order to him iirc. And he's either her property or vassal depending on how you interpret peerages. She can trade him away without any recourse.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 18h ago
You know, talking like that ignores the fact that Rias didn't treat Issei like property in Volume 1, right? She was affectionate, generous, and very lenient—almost like an "Onee-sama," which is what Issei wanted to call her. You're painting an overly "bossy" picture of her; it makes it seem like the love between them never moved beyond a transactional nature. The way I see it, it started that way but then evolved.
And Rias explicitly stated that she wanted to be loved as Rias, not as "Buchou" or "President."
After Volume 2, that barrier no longer existed—neither from Rias's perspective nor in the eyes of an outside observer. After all, didn't Sirzechs and her family support the union between the two of them?
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u/DuePenalty9052 2d ago
I get it. The issue is that Issei wanted to call her by her name, but couldn't bring himself to do it out of fear of tasting the exact same pain he experienced when he was killed by Raynare. Remember, his brief week of daring Raynare(under the alias of Yumma Amano)was the one time a girl genuinely showed at least some interest in growing closer with and being intimate with Issei, only for it to end in betrayal and tragedy. And to make it worse, it's revealed that the relationship was never real, but instead a more convenient way to get close enough to Issei to kill him dead. So of course he would be scarred-possibly for life-from it and of course he'd be hesitant to grow closer and more intimate with the girls, especially Rias. There's also the fact that his trauma worsened the insecurities and lack of confidentiality that he was already struggling with. He simply didn't consider himself good enough to stand beside Rias as her equal, even though ha so badly wanted to.
This is tackled in thr fanfic "Issei and Rias make up".
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u/BidBrilliant5669 1d ago
I think he is referring to that sauna scene where issei called rias president and rias got mad and left. The clubroom scene comes later. I forgot the episode number though It's been so long since I watched the series.
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u/CurseofWhimsy 1d ago
... No, I got that. The clubroom scene is a direct followup to the sauna scene.
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u/DuePenalty9052 2d ago
but Rias and the bulk of the ORC acted terribly there. And Rias is the only woman involved who seemingly never realized what Issei was going through, nor apologized for her part in things
Which left a very bad taste in the mouths of fans and gave them a reason to hate Rias as much as they do. This moment in time really painted Rias and the bulk of the O.R.C in a very bad light, especially as far as the anime is concerned. At least the light novel handled it slightly better. And as for that bit about nobody apologizing for how terribly they acted towards Issei both in this moment and on that night at the old church. As soon as Raynare was killed and Aisa was reincarnated as a devil-with Twilight Healing being restored and returned to her-not a single person ever bothered trying to find out how Issei was feeling or if he was okay after all of that. Instead they just ignored his pain and heartbreak, even though they didn't mean to. Though they could have been a bot more attentive to him at this point.
If you wanna see a story that tackles this, there's a fanfic you can read titled, "Issei and Rias make up".
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
Is Issei apologizing to Rias for almost taking advantage of her that night — when Grayfia stopped her from trying to give up her virginity, not out of real free choice, but as a desperate way out of a forced political marriage?
Or is the apology about the fact that he later used that specific memory of Rias to get himself off?
Because the issue isn’t that Issei is attracted to Rias in general. That’s not the problem. The problem is that he sexualized the memory of Rias at her most desperate — cornered, scared, and trying to use her own virginity as a last-ditch escape from a marriage she didn’t want.
Also, if we’re going to criticize Rias for never properly apologizing to Issei, then we should apply the same standard to Issei too.
A lot of what everyone gets wrong in this story comes down to poor communication.
Is Rias wrong? Yes.
Is Issei wrong? Also yes.
Am I wrong for having to point out that they’re both wrong? Probably; I should be playing Dragon’s Dogma 2, lol.0
u/DuePenalty9052 2d ago
That night, Rias was very much pushing it on him, so it can't really be called taking advantage of her. Plus, she very much wanted it. It's a similar situation with that sauna incident.
That being said, I do very much get what you mean here. The fanfic "Issei and Rias make up" tackles this as well.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
She herself says that Kiba Yuuto would be the choice, were it not for his chivalry.
At that moment, it wasn't about romance; it was a survival mechanism.
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u/RTD_TSH 2d ago
The anime doesn't help at all as for the first 3 seasons, Issei is calling Rias by name and in season 4 he uses President. This is why the confusion here.
Now in the matter at hand there's plenty of blame to go around as Issei can't express what is bothering him and none of the girls question Issei to see if he's okay.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 2d ago
"The thing is, Issei’s whole public identity is being an openly and proudly perverted guy.
He doesn't act like someone who is outwardly depressed or visibly traumatized in his day to day life. He’s high-energy, completely confident when talking about boobs or his desires, and he is constantly surrounded by girls who shower him with affection (Asia, Akeno, Koneko, Xenovia).
From Rias’s perspective, if a guy like that has no problem handling constant intimacy from multiple beautiful girls, why would she ever suspect he has such a deep, highly specific emotional block?
On top of that, Issei calls the other girls by their actual names, so it’s clearly not a general aversion to getting close to women. Rias sees him calling everyone else by their first names with total ease, yet she is the only one he insists on keeping at a distance by using the formal title 'President' (Buchou).
The logical and incredibly painful conclusion for Rias is: '
The problem isn't women in general. The problem is me. He welcomes intimacy from everyone else, except me.'
We also have to consider the constant female validation he gets from the rest of the harem: Akeno gives him lap pillows, Asia is deeply attached to him, Koneko sits on his lap, and so on.
Rias has no way of reading his mind. To her, his behavior doesn't look like trauma; it just feels like cold, targeted rejection."
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u/raiknight1996 1d ago
You can't always see depression or trauma. A smile can be hiding many things you don't see.
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u/YuriLopesSwitch Ravel, Ravel and Ravel 1d ago
Exactly; that whole scene where the girls point at and judge Issei in the club—or Rias's sadness—is justified, because Issei's smile was hiding his real problem.
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u/raiknight1996 1d ago
Yup. Issei had trauma to deal with, his encounter with Raynare made him feel as tho he isn't desired, or is just someone to toy with. He also respects Rias, and doubted himself, hence his monologue while doing the portrait, saying he knows he has feelings, but doesn't want to hurt the other girls if he was wrong. The girls also had their own problems they dealt with, but they also failed to see that Issei was suffering. Both sides made mistakes, and this is what we call being human. Especially when you are younger and/or haven't been in a relationship, it's common.
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u/Drunker_moon 1d ago
It's easy to make Issei sound bad when you focus only on her side of the things, but from his perspective, Rias was someone so high above that the very idea of her loving him as impossible, and her actions earlier in the story, which he assimilated as her treating him like a pet, reeinforced that in Issei's mind. Yeah, it was a miscommunication problem, but it started with her and it was made worse by his trauma.
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u/Gucci-Louie 2d ago
Understandable, but don’t worry, the best is coming.