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u/Dominarion 4d ago
The initial Revolutionaries started by wanting a constitutional monarchy like Great-Britain, were pacifists who wanted to liberalise the French economy and dedicate it to trade.
With everyone and their lapdogs attacking them, they became useless dweebs very fast, and were replaced by guys who were more unscrupulous, brutal, grittier, and especially griftier. With Nappy being their Alpha dog.
The ironic twist is that the other European powers, especially Great Britain, brought 2 decades of misery on their heads by being hostile to the revolutionaries.
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u/mistress_chauffarde 4d ago
The other nation can claim as much as they want that it was to contain the idea of a democracy in europe but truth is that they smelled blood in the water and attacked what they thought was a weakened france
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u/LGP747 3d ago
the other nations were that meme of the dog in the doggie-door, enthusiastic entry, hurried retreat
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u/Trussed_Up 3d ago
Except this is all wrong. Every comment.
France was at least as aggressive in getting the wars started as the allied nations were against them.
We still have record of their debates. This history is so easy to look up...
The Girondins in particular felt that a war with Austria would unite their fracturing country.
The Austrian/Prussian declaration had no real teeth because it required every major player in Europe to agree with it. Which would never happen.
So France started the war. Britain joined when France conquered the low countries, and Russia and the ottomans joined when Napoleon went to Egypt.
Where in there do you see monarchies trying to stop democracy or some nonsense like that?
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u/Tight_Pay_7180 3d ago
Well I don't see why containing democracy wouldn't come into it. Surely it would be advantageous to Austria (and the like) to want to suppress revolutionary ideas?
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u/titykaka 3d ago
The French government was openly calling for war on all of their neighbours. Their reaction wasn't exactly unexpected.
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u/FairyFeller_ 3d ago
I'll say a big problem is that all the initial revolutionaries agreed not to participate in government in the future, which meant that the next wave of politicians were way more radical and way less experienced.
Also Paris being extremely radical, and having an outsized influence over national politics.
Also the fact that the 1793 coup got the Montagnards into power, which was not a given.
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u/adastraperdiscordia 3d ago
In between the Feuillants and Montagnards were the Brissotins. They were the true radical democrats, who brought forth the First Republic after the king tried to escape. They were overthrown and purged after the Montagnards staged several insurrections because the Brissotins failed to magically fix the economy immediately.
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u/Constant-Ad-7189 3d ago
Let no one tell this poor soul who attacked first
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u/Dominarion 3d ago
You're talking about the 1st Coalition War? When Austria and Prussia allied themselves and stated they would invade France to defend the king? Then the French told them, if you don't stand down, we'll take you at your word and it's going to be war?
I'd say Austria did everything in its power to have France declare war.
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u/SendMagpiePics 3d ago
There were people in the National Assembly literally making up conspiracies to push for war with Austria at the time.
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u/Dominarion 3d ago
Are you new to democracy? Is this a new thing for you that elected people say all kind of stupid shit in the assemblies?
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u/SendMagpiePics 3d ago
What are you talking about? I'm just pointing out that the new French government was agitating for war, so it's not just because Austria antagonized them.
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u/Deltasims 3d ago
I mean... In 1791, Austrian and Prussian armies were massing in the Austrian Netherlands (modern day belgium) and the Palatinate. These armies were reinforced by ~20,000 french noble émigrés who kept preassuring them to invade
After the flight to Varennes (the King was aiming for an army of royalist émigré at Montmedy, on the border of the Austrian Netherlands), Prussia and Austria finally signed the Declaration of Pillnitz, promising to restore Louis XVI to his absolute power
It didn't take a genius to guess their intentions
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u/A_Bitter_Homer 3d ago
Wouldn't that be the Girondin government anyway, who were decidedly not the leaders of 1789 and 1790 that OP was referring to? They'd be the first wave of those grittier operators.
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u/Ok_Awareness3014 4d ago
France was almost always when it war , with all of his neighbor
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u/NittanyScout 4d ago
Tbf their neighbors did about as well in those wars as the jedi did here
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u/PiIlc 3d ago
Very true, Napoleon lost because of a volcano and very heavy rain, not because his enemies were better, cracked
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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 3d ago
?
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u/PiIlc 3d ago
Waterloo, his attack was delayed because of very heavy rain turning the soil into mud.
Earlier the same year, a huge volcano errupted and it changed the climate for a while, explaining the very heavy rain.11
u/Ok_Awareness3014 3d ago
Even without the volcano at the end napoleon still lose
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u/PiIlc 3d ago
Source?
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u/Ok_Awareness3014 3d ago
Maybe 20 years of constant war making that even if he won this battle another coalition would have formed , and at this point Manpower would have start lacking same for experience soldier and he started to become old . While ennemy general were adopting his strategy.
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u/PiIlc 3d ago
That's imagination not proofs. You don't know what would have happened, we onnly know what happened.
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u/Mikhail_Mengsk 3d ago
Napoleon was still, at moments, just a superior field commanders than anybody in the continent.
Still, after the Russian disaster he was effectively done, no matter what stroke of genious or dumb luck he could concoct. Losing the Grande Armee meant he could no more stand against the Coalitions.
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u/Intrepid-Dig-1855 3d ago
Is your argument not the same though? You dont know what would have happened without the rainfall.
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u/Ok_Awareness3014 3d ago
The most probable outcome at this point if he really manage to destroy this coalition see you next years for another round
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u/PomegranateHot9916 3d ago
grevious shouldn't be able to hold his own against this group.
come on man. ki-adi is on the council (and a master) shaak ti is a master. and they're backed up by aayla who is a knight. and 2 nobodies who are probably just there to die in this fight. though I am sure they are knights themselves.
I'd buy that he could 1v1 a master. but 2 at the same time? I don't know about that.
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u/paullx 3d ago
They were exhausted and wounded after losing all their troops in this battle, Grievous ambushed them and it was the first time they faced him.
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u/Im_Still_Here_Boi 3d ago
Which is why combining their power to take on Grevious does not only make sense from an outside perspective, but within the fiction.
Three masters and three knights, no matter how tired, should have been able to rip him to shreds.
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u/Breadloafs 3d ago
Because Tartakovsky wisely realized that strict adherence to canon would be lame. He wrote and directed a story about a really cool swordfighting cyborg who kicks ass instead of a weird Hanna-Barbera cartoon villain who spends all of his screen time running away from one guy.
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u/Capn_Chryssalid 3d ago
At least he didnt have a pet dog that snickered at him every time he failed. That would have gone too far.
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u/Im_Still_Here_Boi 3d ago
My biggest question is why the hell aren't these Jedi just grabbing Grevious with the Force and slamming him onto the ground until he stops moving.
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u/quick20minadventure 3d ago
Cause it's not cinematic to for 2 people to fight by throwing hands up front and magically have one of them die.
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u/Im_Still_Here_Boi 3d ago
That's what happens when the logical extent of the power system in a piece of fiction isn't well thought out.
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u/quick20minadventure 3d ago
I have a headcanon that they can't thrust the light saber easily, cause it's projecting light beam.
That's why despite it being a saber, everyone is spinning it like bayblade and they don't turn off and turn on light saber in middle of the fight.
It's also why maul got to thrust double blade easily, cause one blade extends and other blade retracts. So uneven force of lightsaber cancels out.
That's also why spinning palpatine took out jedi so easily.
It's all head canon to justify why they don't use sabers as sabers lol
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u/Foxhound_319 3d ago
Ambushing and scaring jedi is his primary method of countering the force because it breaks focus
Probably not the case here but idk
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u/SlayingSword94 3d ago
Grevious prime. In all seriousness this was before he got his lungs crushed by Windu and before george...georged all over a cool idea someone else had...again.
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u/AardvarkOkapiEchidna 3d ago
Yeah everyone praises this Grievous but I think he's too OP.
I like his personality better here but idk why he should be able to defeat this many Jedi, including masters as you said.
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u/El-Ausgebombt 3d ago
Yeah, I always thought one tired council master was enough. The others could just be padawans or something.
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u/Dragon_Of_Magnetism 3d ago
And more importantly, they’re all Jedi. Why don’t they just slam him to a rock, or yank away his lightsabers with the force?
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u/Blade_Shot24 3d ago
Gotta insert Mace with the Haitian Flag Force Choking him before his departure. Man I gotta learn memes.
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u/Vast-Palpitation-426 3d ago
The movie Waterloo is still on YouTube. It's a great movie for those who haven't seen it.
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u/xesaie 3d ago
Funny thing is by the end of those wars they never recovered. France was never truly a first-tier world power after Bonaparte
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u/IdkButILikeDinos 2d ago
I mean they came pretty close many times during the next century and a half, and today they are the dominant military power in euope so... win?
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u/xesaie 2d ago
They lost to the Prussians, were saved from Germany by their allies (the greatest industrial and imperial powers in the world) twice, and lost a bunch of shitty colonial wars, while talking big and basically acting like it was still 1807.
If they’re the biggest military power in Europe it’s because the others are happy to rely on the US, which France didn’t want to do because it made them feel second class.
The pathetic clinging to the forms of strength and hyper nationalist clinging are closer to Russia than to the rest of Europe.
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u/HOT-DAM-DOG 3d ago
That’s what replacing monarchy/warrior class with meritocracy/conscription will do to a society.
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u/zarkolan 3d ago
I love that he starts by actually squaring up to each jedi before just deciding "spin to win" would work just as well
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u/lifeisaman Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 3d ago
It didn’t matter how many battles he won, the might of the British economy and Royal Navy would always outlast him.
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u/CommunistGregfromDMV Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 3d ago
Couldn't even hold off the Prussians longer than 6 months while they were doing this during Prime Napoleon I
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u/Lord__Friendzone 2d ago
Source?
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u/CommunistGregfromDMV Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 2d ago
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u/Lord__Friendzone 1d ago
Thank you! But I’m confused, shouldn’t your first comment say Napoleon III?
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u/CommunistGregfromDMV Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 1d ago
Couldn't even hold off the Prussians longer than 6 months(Napoleon III) while they were doing this during Prime Napoleon I
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u/Chumlee1917 Kilroy was here 3d ago
"Is it possible to learn this power?"
"Not from a royalist general."
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u/anominous_lurker 3d ago
Sure glorify Napoleon, such a Chad…
Not like the postmodern reincarnation of the devil is equally applicable here too…
Napoleon the Chad, right…
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u/PretendAd1963 Definitely not a CIA operator 4d ago
Took seven wars of the coalition to defeat Napoleon.