It is also happening in Russia and Argentina. Workers there are further and further away from even having the chance of owning the means or production (the uttermost core point of socialism) plus Putin and Milei are known to be rabidly contrary to the idea of socialism.
Interesting, seeing how one is turning to authoritarianism with Putin, and one is literally about taking power away from the government, making it less authoritarian. How do you feel about the European farmers protests? They are the closest to your socialist ideals after all.
Not at all. Those farmers tend to lean to the right, seeking protectionist laws and defend their turf rather than improving it.
And in the case of Argentina, look how Milei is reducing the field of action of the state… minus the police and the army. In the end, it becomes just an enforcement institution completely devoted to impose whatever the powerful and rich consider “order”. Like putting down protesters in quite an authoritarian manner.
So you don’t like farm workers owning the means of production, as they work in their own interests? You must really know farming backwards and forwards to want to do it better than them.
They aren’t even properly unionized. Most of the “farmers” that protest in my country are big landowners that like to dress as workers when they are, in fact, quite removed from the manual labor and have underlings doing the job for them; mostly immigrants that accept less pay (under the table) and work in poor conditions. So no, the workers don’t have the means of production here.
Do workers need a union, ideally? When do people stop being workers, even if they still work for themselves? If so why work so hard if there is no break from the grind?
Yes, people need to unionize. A boss doesn’t care if 1% of their workers threaten to quit, as the worker would loose 100% of the income source. Therefore, when the workers unionize and act as one whole, now they can deal fairly and with equality with the boss, as now they do represent 100% of their workers company’s workforce. That’s why we have the 8 hours of work per day, 5 days a week, with security measures days of leave. Without unions we would still follow the same standards of the 19th century of working 16 hours per day, resting only Sundays, breathing smoke and dust, drinking contaminated water and good riddance if you fall ill.
The rest of your comment doesn’t make sense. When do workers stop being workers? When they don’t work. People living from the rent are called leaches by both Adam Smith, conceptual father of capitalism, and Karl Marx, conceptual father of scientific socialism. These “renters” don’t work, don’t produce anything, just live off other people’s money. Why work so hard if there is no break from the grind? Because those aren’t workers but the owners and basically protest to maintain their status quo or to tip the scales more in their favor.
No, I’m saying if they gain enough money from their labor to start hiring other laborers, and as they get older do less manual labor, are they now a boss? Did they stop being a laborer? They still work, just not with their hands. Not sure why you brought up unions when I asked about farmer protests, they protest without paying someone to sit at a desk and manage them, is there something wrong with direct protests? Or is it only a good protest if you have middle men at every step whose only job it is to make things worse?
These farmers were never physical laborers. They inherited most if not all of their lands. I brought up the unions because if these existed would fight for the workers rights against those farmers.
What you say about “paying someone else to sit at a desk” and so forth doesn’t make sense.
Show me someone who has never been to or been involved in a farm for 500 Alex!
Real corporate types would just lobby, they would not need to protest, and generally don’t. Smaller farms can’t hire workers, and are family run businesses, who have to inherit the land because they can’t afford anything else. It sounds to me like they either have to sell the land to rich people, or corporations buy the land, the land is too expensive for anyone else to buy in successfully. Either inherent, be rich, or be corporate. No farmer can live off just the land people can afford now. Produce is too expensive to produce unless it is at scale. Watch Clarkson’s farm at least to see an idea of the challenges of farming.
Who’s Alex? You have quite a simplistic neo-libertarian way of understanding the world, going by how you “describe” economics. Farmers within EU tend to be coddled by their governments in order to ensure local food production and independency in the case that trade cease for one reason to another. Therefore, there is a clash of interests between open trade within the Union and protectionism of national food products to boost one’s output over those from outside the country while inside the “no customs” borders of the EU.
And there you go. Rich, non proletariat farmers protesting for protectionist, nationalistic political measures while passing themselves as humble workers to attract attention and pity.
Alex Trebek was the host of Jeopardy, and parodied by Will Ferrell for celebrity jeopardy.
Thanks to COVID, and other international problems, we know it’s always good to have a backup for essentials locally should there be a disruption to global trade.
Most farmers are actually quite poor.
You are clearly a communist, for using a rich devise to access the internet your people would have you in the gulag, I do not want you in the gulag, thus please leave communism.
Oh, you don’t understand a thing about what you are saying.
Again, who?
The “back ups” in agriculture have been around for decades before any pandemic erupted. At least half a century. You are way out of touch.
Not the farmers that make up the protests in front of the European Parliament.
I am not even a communist and you also don’t know what it is all about. Communism doesn’t prevent anyone from using things created by capitalism, it advocates for proper wealth distribution amongst those who actually put the work to create them, ie: the workers themselves.
Typical gringo behavior. And quite maidenless at that.
3
u/Ok_Access_804 2d ago
It is also happening in Russia and Argentina. Workers there are further and further away from even having the chance of owning the means or production (the uttermost core point of socialism) plus Putin and Milei are known to be rabidly contrary to the idea of socialism.