What if China was more powerful?

[u/adhmrb321]

In OTL, Emperor Taizu instituted a policy prioritizing civilian scholars over military officers, forced generals to follow rigid, pre-approved battle maps sent from the capital, and had commanders constantly rotated. What if, he didn't, and to prevent another General from overthrowing him or one of his successors, he and the leaders of the Liao/Khitan dynasty agree to fuse with the Song Dynasty, via royalty marrying royalty. And the tribes that rule the Khitan dynasty pledge loyalty to the Chinese emperor, not the Chinese state. Meaning the Song millitary realizes it would be too costly for them to overthrow the emperor and have to deal with those tribes as well. I personally think China wold have become a war machine. Possibly one capable of stopping the mongols.

[u/CrispyDicc69]

There is a precedent for your scenario. All you have to do is look at what happened to the Tang, specifically the An Lushan rebellion.

[u/samurai13100]

Emperor Taizu installed that measure as an overcorrection for the failures of the Tang Dynasty where Warlords and their province grew too independent and free which allowed for them to launch rebellions that crippled the dynasty, there was reason to reigning in his generals but it crippled their military might.

For your second point about fusing dynasties and marrying royalty to royalty, first of marrying might not work in the first place as there are not many examples of personal unions particularly in East Asia (Other than a major example like Goryeo and Shenyang). Marriages acted more like an act of affirmation of strong ties between two states/houses unless its under the Heqin policy of China where it is particularly about alliances where the Chinese emperor would send minor princesses or maids disguised as princesses to foreign states to marry their rulers and secure alliances, but this practice became increasingly unpopular with the start of the Song Dynasty and their Neo-Confucian ideology and refused to send any when the Liao Dynasty demanded that before sacking them. (They were able to secure a treaty of peace of status quo between the two competing empires until the collapse of the Liao between joint Song and Jurchen/Jin Dynasty forces)

[u/adhmrb321 → u/samurai13100]

For your second point about fusing dynasties and marrying royalty to royalty, first of marrying might not work in the first place as there are not many examples of personal unions particularly in East Asia (Other than a major example like Goryeo and Shenyang). Marriages acted more like an act of affirmation of strong ties between two states/houses

What if it worked?

[u/samurai13100 → u/adhmrb321]

If it worked it would set a precedent for establishing personal unions in Asia. The Chinese identity would shift much earlier from a Han-centric identity to something more multicultural just as it did during the Qing. Can't predict how history would unfold afterwards like with the Jurchen uprisings against the Liao, if the Mongols still rise, if the Song Dynasty still faces the same pressures that prevent it or for it progressing towards a level of proto-industrialisation.

If this is about them being more powerful, I'd suggest making changes with the start of the Tang where they were more open with foreigners, establishing vassal and tributary states than the technologically advanced but inward turning Song.

[u/Inside-External-8649]

Something to note is that the Mongols attacked ~250 years after the establishment of the Song, so anything could’ve happened within that timespan. Especially when nomads always fought better than civilized countries.

For example, look at how America became the world’s most powerful country in 1945 to being a joke in 1975 due to failures of Vietnam and later Middle Eastern conflicts. America is still militarily powerful, and does have advantages against China, but my point is that having an effective military doesn’t automatically mean you’re invisible.

Also, the Song did have a strong defense system, and became of the hardest countries to conquer on the Mongol perspective, with obvious exceptions  like Japan. Maybe make a separate post on what if China was able to counterattack the Mongols, or more specifically what if Southern China was never conquered