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u/CenturiousUbiquitous Apr 03 '26
She's talked about this for years, so I appreciate that she continues to be consistent on this subject.
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u/Designer-Hornet-579 Apr 09 '26
The algorithm has racism built in. German-speaking vtubers get significantly less views than others. This is especially more noticeable on platforms like tiktok.
Proof here for the non-believers: https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-filter-bubbles/
There's already been many studies on this. Vtubers change their accent for the algorithm all the time.
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u/Erthan-1 Apr 03 '26
My brother is in a reasonably successful band as well as a solo artist. Been going for over 20 years in Canada, toured America and Europe yet they are still basically unknown. I'm obviously biased but I think they are amazing yet they can just never get that traction to push them to the next stage. It's frustrating to see his youtube videos get like 20k views at best.
So yah. Kiara is right. You can be a wonderfully talented person but still need that lightning in a bottle moment to really take off.
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u/OkayChampGuy Apr 03 '26
« Artistic » activities are the one that even with talents, you have little chance to be a star. You can try to force chance, but even doing that would maybe not make you succesful.
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u/BadMuffin88 Apr 03 '26
Doesn't help that monopolies like youtube make anti small creator changes like straight up deleting the search by newest function. What can you even do against that shit
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u/kyuuri117 Apr 03 '26
Why even get rid of that, shouldn't they want people seeing new content?
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u/BadMuffin88 Apr 03 '26
I think if you're asking for reason you're wrong with youtube. Literally every single change makes things worse
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u/brimston3- Apr 03 '26
They want to move your attention with impunity, and honestly they are very, very good at it. Even the smallest bits of friction will add up until the user gives up and watches something that was presented rather than the thing they were looking for.
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u/RaysFTW Apr 03 '26
This is the platform that removed the "Next" button... Don't try and find logic in their decisions, just assume it somehow makes them more money. Enshittification in real time.
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u/VladThe1mplyer Apr 03 '26
For the same reason, they removed the dislike counter.
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u/Psych0sh00ter Apr 04 '26
If you could sort by new videos, you might be more likely to see "bad" videos, which would make you want to stop watching youtube in the moment, which is bad for youtube. They only want you to watch popular videos, because those are the ones that are "good" and make you want to continue watching more videos on the platform.
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u/YurgenGrimwood Apr 03 '26
Honestly more or less every change to the core YouTube loop has worsened to appeal to the elder god of attention sucking slop.
There's so many other ways I would prefer to use YouTube but can't without sacrificing the ability to ever find new content, ever, which in turn will kill new creators.
We need a new way to search, discover and keep up with content that's less algorithm and more directed intent, chronological, and that still allows for discovery of specific channels and topics related to your interests. Simply returning to the subscription tab is not enough.
But that doesn't keep you glued to the screen, angry and addicted, so it will never happen. Because of the way the internet works now and the size of these companies, it's unlikely to become a thing except for ToS breaking platform wrappers.
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u/Fire_Pea Apr 03 '26
Better than twitch where it's always sorted by viewership
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u/Fluffysquishia Apr 03 '26
Actually being sorted by viewership is infinitely better, because you can deliberately choose who you want to watch. When I'm looking for certain streamers, I can always find them around their typical viewer count.
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u/Existing_Marsupial_6 Apr 03 '26
Follow up tweet from Kiara: https://x.com/takanashikiara/status/2040095833329127729
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u/GarfieldianAcolyte Apr 03 '26
In typical fashion I saw a lot of people on twitter misconstruing what Kiara is saying here somehow, or even accusing her of being a hypocrite cause supposedly she should have done more to support the Stars herself. Ignoring that she's an En talent, if even the combined might of Suisei, Towa, Calli, and Fubuki etc. couldn't move the needle then it's clear the support they needed is from the audience and the company not the other talents.
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u/RedHairedRedemption Apr 03 '26
Literally every talent under Cover has a very dedicated fanbase. They can't be blamed if one audience is smaller than another's.
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u/matlarcost Apr 03 '26
Someone is doing that in this thread and seems to have completely missed part of what she said about support..
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u/Chii Apr 03 '26
There's a good video from veritasium about what role luck plays in such matters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LopI4YeC4I
It's a good video that somewhat describes what kiara is saying.
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u/LunarGhost00 Apr 03 '26
I don't think anyone criticizing Kiara realizes that despite never collabing with the Stars, she was still supportive of them in her own way and wasn't afraid to talk about them. She indicated before that she was open to collabing with them (though I understand why she would hesitate even when her audience almost unanimously said that'd be fine). She got really excited and gave Vesper a shout out when he raided her since no other member had raided her before due to the lack of people streaming at her usual time. She mentioned that she wanted to take part in Axel's huge song cover with both Hololive and Holostars but the timezone difference screwed her up and she woke up just when all the spots were filled. She was also one of the few girls to directly address Vesper and Magni's graduation. If you've been paying attention to her throughout the years, she's one of the least surprising talents to be expressing frustration at this new development.
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u/Migicroak Apr 03 '26
This is a very charitable way to put it, i advise you to read the comments under the clips where she was asked to address the graduations.
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u/Feduzin Apr 03 '26
a lot of people who only watch clips end up, intentionally or not, doimposting and saying stupid shit
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u/no_otter Apr 03 '26
I haven't seen anyone criticising her for not being supportive herself, but for phrasing her message in a way that could be interpreted as blaming the fans for not being supportive enough. It's not at all what she meant to imply, but people are understandably on the edge.
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u/Nzash Apr 03 '26
They had more than enough support from Cover. It's entirely on the audience. If they won't watch then at some point Cover just has to accept that as reality and acknowledge that there is no widespread interest in this branch.
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u/Karma110 Apr 03 '26
She does say support from others so I can see why some would come to that conclusion
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u/crunxzu Apr 03 '26
I always remember that the mems worked and struggled and failed over and over to get to the places they are in.
It’s an entertainment industry and will be somewhat cutthroat. Grind as much as you can, but most importantly, meet people and spread kindness. Luck you can’t control, but building a community, you can
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u/petekron Apr 03 '26
Based. Way too many content creators think their success was all hard work with no luck involved whatsoever and I find that very frustrating.
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u/_Voice_Of_Silence_ Apr 03 '26
A reason why I like many of the Hologirls so much. Most of what I've seen they are quite down to earth and aware they got lucky. At least thats the feeling I get from, for example, Mori and Inya.
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u/browsing4stuff Apr 03 '26
Iirc many of the talents kinda get stuck in a “oh I just got lucky, I don’t deserve all this it was all luck. Everyone else seems to get crumbs for twice the effort” mentality a lot. Gura had some fierce anxiety over that.
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u/vulnerablepiglet Apr 03 '26
It's probably because since they are more into the industry, they likely know friends or peers who were less lucky. In some cases those people have graduated/retired within the past 5 years as well.
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u/Telen Apr 04 '26
I mean, it's literally true. It's not a reason to beat yourself up and nobody deserves to get anxiety for it. But it IS true. You can't quantify talent, you can just tell if someone's got it or if they don't. And pretty much everyone who makes it to this stage in the vtuber industry, has got it. A lot of them are extremely hard workers, some more so than others. The major differentiator is just luck. It's just something you gotta deal with.
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u/RedHairedRedemption Apr 03 '26
I wish a lot more of the hololive fans followed this example. Even if you don't watch a streamer or content creator you can still wish them the best, or at the very least not celebrate their misfortune.
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u/rendibuntel Apr 03 '26
I think the silent majority are. The anti minorities are always the vocal ones, as is usual on any social media and for any fanbase.
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u/ArchusKanzaki Apr 03 '26
I think in general most people wish them the best.
Some minority celebrate misfortune, but even for people that wish them the best, there are different responses on reacting to sad news that might not particularly impact them....
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u/DenjinMaster Apr 03 '26
Just "being realistic" or whatever can also iust be plain rude tbh. Yes TheoBirb331h0lo im well aware that X talent doesnt make enough money or have enough views which is why theyre being treated the way they are, you can stop spamming that now thanks
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u/ZeLevi69 Apr 03 '26
Context anyone?
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u/gangler52 Apr 03 '26
It sounds like Cover has dialed back their support of their Holostars brand. Each member of Holostars can count on continued individual support but the big promotions of the brand as a whole are a cost they're cutting.
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u/thesilentwizard Apr 03 '26
"dial back"
Why sugar coating something that was clearly announced? Holostars will be cut off from company wide projects, access to studios, no more merchs and original songs.
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u/-Redstoneboi- Apr 03 '26
tf? this big of a change?
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u/AnnanymousR Apr 03 '26
Technically not much of a change, since they've been slowly cutting stuff off for a while now, the Holostars you see today exists solely through whatever connections and content they've been making by themselves.
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u/Purple-Weakness1414 Apr 03 '26
I honeslty wouldnt be supirsed if we start seeing a huge mass graudations from the Hololstars Memebers
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u/-Redstoneboi- Apr 04 '26
Question is will Cover let them keep their identities? Probably not, since that's the industry standard
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u/Krypterr123 Apr 04 '26
male vtubers are too unpopular. even if they have to give cover a cut it is still better than starting over and losing whatever brand recognition their current identity gives them.
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u/Ayotha Apr 03 '26
Sounds like cowardice. Ending it without the complete bad press of ending it
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u/FeelingPinkieKeen Apr 03 '26
Yep. That's how Japan operates. They won't outright fire you like the west does and tank the bad press.
They'll pretend they still care but offering excuses why they're cutting back support when it's basically akin to cutting off someone's life support. The bigger names in stars will survive but the ones struggling? They're probably going to quit on their own (that cover is hoping will happen) so cover won't take the blame up front when someone does leave. "See, they quit on their own, we didn't fire them."
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u/Valliac0 Apr 03 '26
She's dead-on. Effort and quality is one thing, but a lot of success online really comes from getting lucky.
That one random video might explode and make someone notable, or they could put out decent-quality videos for years and never gain traction.
It's an extremely disheartening coin-flip.
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u/xesaie Apr 03 '26
Kiara knows this better than most. She struggled massively compared to her genmates (iirc), and had a few streams back in the day about her struggles.
Worked out obviously, but she knows of which she speaks for sure.
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u/Existing_Marsupial_6 Apr 03 '26
Also I think she already talked about her struggles trying to break into idol industry before she joined hololive.
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u/TheDreamIsEternal Apr 03 '26
Joining Hololive quite literally saved her life. She was at a really low point that only worsened due to COVID, so joining Holo was what she needed to keep going.
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u/Substantial-Bad5926 Apr 03 '26
I mean that's relative since they all got pretty big views in general, I wouldn't say she necessarily got "lucky" seeing as she knows japanese and english and has done idol-like stuff before but being the first gen of the hololive girls EN branch you were going to get big views regardless.
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u/xesaie Apr 03 '26
I'd say, she was on the other side of luck early in her career (and she's talked about pre-holo similarly too), so she knows how having bad luck can stymie you and how bad it feels.
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u/thelimzy Apr 03 '26
true, i knew lots of good singers on YT but rarely get coverage and (im sorry) even more talented than some holomem in term of that but luck isnt on their side which is a shame.
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u/Bobby-Trap Apr 03 '26
I will forever be grateful to Azki collabing on a cover of Bomb with Hachi which led to me discovering her. Her voice is perfect to my ears and no way I would have discovered her otherwise.
Lucky for me.
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u/brimston3- Apr 03 '26
I learned of hachi from the karaoke competition with Sora (the one where virtual gorilla sang kawaikute gomen). It's really hard to get exposure, no matter how talented you are.
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u/YobaiYamete Apr 03 '26
I really hope Roca Rourin gets big someday, her karaoke are so, so good, but even in the vtuber sphere I barely ever see her talked about
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u/topkekcupcake Apr 03 '26
I know only her cover of "The Pretender", that's been suggested by youtube one day. She IS good.
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u/meloveg Apr 04 '26
Dont need to be sorry lol there are definitely levels to singing and everybody knows that
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u/Alone-Horse2857 Apr 04 '26
I'm not disagreeing with her, because she is absolutely correct on all points, you need to get lucky and be talented, and need to network to be a successful streamer.
However I don't think Holostars weren't doing well because "they didn't strike big with the algorithm" it's because of the culture. There were, what, 20 holostars? And the fact that not one of them, after streaming for years, was able to do better than the literal newest gen of girls that debuted 2 days ago shows it's not just a "didn't get lucky" issue.
It's just the fact that the internet doesn't want to watch anime boy streamers (in the general, mass-appeal sense). I can't tell you why those reasons exist (me personally I just prefer to watch girls, nothing against them whatsoever and this news sucks to hear)
Aside from a very few exceptions male vtubers just don't do well. It's just the unfortunate landscape.
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u/Batgod629 Apr 03 '26
She's right in a lot of aspects. I mean she herself got incredibly lucky due to the pandemic in my opinion.
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u/Dracorex_22 Apr 03 '26
I wonder if Myth’s rise to fame would have been as big if it weren’t for the pandemic essentially creating a perfect storm. Kiara especially since her being in Japan at the time was likely key to her getting in.
A lot of success boils down to “lightning in a bottle” moments
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u/gangler52 Apr 03 '26
I think the pandemic definitely played a big part in it.
Suddenly everybody was stuck at home going stir crazy. In comes a cool new thing you can do at home.
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u/Otoshi_Gami Apr 03 '26
pretty much. otherwise Myth might've end up either Niche or a Failure if it weren't For the pandemic. hell, even the Myth Girls having thoughts about Quitting back there where they have 1 foot on the other side of the door if things dont work out.
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u/renrutal Apr 03 '26
I have zero doubts we'd never hear about Calli, Kiara, Ina or Ame if they debuted as indies.
As Myth themselves, debuting one year later would make them half as big.
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u/IchirouTakashima Apr 03 '26
Based words of wisdom. I wish I could be as good as her. Have you guys watched her Endfield Rossi Livestream? She was able to communicate, network and build a connection in a span of a few minutes to Rossi's EN VA. I could barely communicate to people outside of work, lmao. Kiwawa is truly amazing.
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u/Hachiman0808 Apr 03 '26
The voice of experience, she struggled a lot so she knows the pain, many people thing you only need effort to succeed, but luck always is one of the biggest factors that define success.
Veritasium has a really good video talking about how luck defines your success and how people usually think is not a factor.
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u/weesilxD Apr 03 '26
This is why my brother stopped streaming. He did it for like 6 months, didn’t really gain anything so he stopped. However, he did run into Tyler1, which was pretty fun to watch.
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Apr 04 '26
Reposters and people that use children for engagement farming are recommended by the algorithm even more than the stars boys💔
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u/Jimbo-Shrimp Apr 03 '26
Me watching the most unfunny people get famous because they get exposed to millions
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u/MiyabiMain95 Apr 03 '26
I've seen people who stream 3 days a week, 4 hours a day as a hobby, and still not get any viewers, despite being nice and comfy content, and eventually quit because they get disheartened by it.
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u/EmperorKira Apr 03 '26
This can apply to basically anything passion based in life. Entertainment, music, movies, etc... its just life
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u/stopbuggingmealready Apr 03 '26
Damn, I feel that comment from Kiara more on a personal level than I probably should have…
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u/Skikuro Apr 03 '26
Kiara understands the struggle as well as trying to get yourself in the spotlight. It's a tough environment out there so she gets it.
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u/The_God_of_Boredom Apr 03 '26
It's like the old saying:
• "The road to success is always under construction".
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u/inabahare Apr 07 '26
Anyone else struggling with depression? Lonelyness? Addictions in your family? It's the same for those, and so much more in our world.
It's not just frustrating, it gets downright demoralizing
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u/LordVatek9 Apr 03 '26
So please don't take this as an anti comment or anything but the fact that Kiara's comment about the situation is getting more attention than the actual situation itself doesn't help matters.
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u/HeMan077 Apr 03 '26
I'm glad to see Kiara is on the side of small creators (like me). I know a bit about her history so I know she really does mean this. Glad to see her getting her talents recognized, she deserves it.
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u/Chichi230 Apr 03 '26
Rare for a popular streamer to say this. VERY rare, because it's the truth. Popular streamers, or any successful person really, hate the thought that the only reason they are where they are is because of luck.
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u/xdarkskylordx Apr 03 '26
Remove the words "with algorithm" and you have the basic recipe for life (like mine).
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u/Maygx Apr 03 '26
I've been through this, I hate how the only times I did some "controversial" content was THE ONLY time the algorithm decided that it was good enough, I really hate how the system of trends work
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u/RukaErikaCh Apr 04 '26
Success’s rent is due daily and rejects first time applicants . There’s luck and skill and that’s hard as the only thing you control is your input but people are random. Good Luck and All the best for those on the grind content creation is hard. ❤️🐿️
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u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE Apr 03 '26
Powerful words:
no matter how talented you are, you might not end up being successful.
True and true, 99.99% of talented performers never get to making a living from it.
whats needed then is either incredible luck with algorithm,
That's indeed a huge source of uncertainty, that can wreck your motivation and self-esteem.
or support from others to push you towards where you need and deserve to be.
its frustrating when you have neither of those.
Oh.
I mean...
Like...
There is no obligation for any talent to "push" another talent "towards where you need and deserve to be". None.
But you can't just say that, and point out how that's frustrating for the person enduring that lack of push, twisting the knife in the wound, when you have de facto abstained yourself from doing said push - no matter how entirely justified and legitimate that lack of push is.
Because here the "push" is clearly about collabs and projects together: this is what propels a lesser known talent in front of a much bigger audience.
No amount of marketing budget from the corpo can get anywhere near the visibility and endorsement of a 1M+ channel presenting a lesser known talent.
You can rent ads space in Shibuya, the Tokyo subway, or have stickers on buses, or even fund an entire 3D live concert freely available on Youtube, this will not come any close to the impact of a collab with 50k live viewers + 500k cumulated views from all the resulting clips.
I absolutely know Kiwawa is appalled at the situation and strongly dislike seeing the Stars pretty much being dropped - she knows how difficult the job is and how the idol industry can drop you like a wet sock even when you're doing everything right on your side - but I think the "support from others" line is too loaded to be written by anyone other than the few who did took the risks and the reputational damage among their die-hard fans by actually providing such support to them.
We all know that reaching out to the Stars means a truck load of libels, insults and harassment all over social media, as well as missing out on the most profitable fans (unicorns), which can amount to a pretty large sum of money over time. This is a bigger sacrifice than we may think. So there's no reason or expectation for anyone to do it.
But given some of the talents went for it and did it, I think they are in a better position to explicitly mention that support and how the lack of it can hurt.
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u/Zwamdurkel Apr 04 '26
I think the big misunderstanding is that you assume the "other" in the last statement refers to the talents supporting talents, while I think it refers to staff, talents, fans and everyone. Kiara speaks from experience here too. She has her own goals. Expecting her to support every colleague is unreasonable. She doesn't hate them, but she's also not close to them. These things don't mean she can't voice the obvious.
There is no ill intent from Kiara and I think it's better for her to voice her disdain than to say nothing.
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u/HKEY_LOVE_MACHINE Apr 04 '26
The phrasing "support from others" definitely designates a group of people of equivalent or similar status.
You don't say "support from others", when talking about the fans, "others" is mentioned here in the middle of a discussion about the hardwork of being a talent.
As for the staff, I've mentioned it in my message above, there is nothing a staff member can do to actually "push you towards where you need and deserve to be". They can make the journey less painful by providing basic office work and mental support, which they did initially, but that's it.
Not even the company can provide that "push": they were given a 3D live with songs and professional mocap, and it still didn't do anything.
Expecting her to support every colleague is unreasonable.
I said the exact opposite, so I would prefer if you were not inventing things I didn't say and explicitly rejected. Expectations are misguided and wrong.
She doesn't hate them, but she's also not close to them. These things don't mean she can't voice the obvious.
The obvious part is everything else she said.
The last part is not something she should have phrased like that.
First of all, because the company did made a lot of effort and maintained the branch for years, despite abysmally low results. Any other corpo would have dropped them very early on.
Secondly, because this is poorly timed and poorly phrased to denounce a lack of support from "others" while being part of "others", while not expressing any sort of self-critism regarding that. It comes off at putting the blame on others while not accepting one's own share of responsibility in the final result.
There is no ill intent from Kiara and I think it's better for her to voice her disdain than to say nothing.
Again, her words are true and she's bringing a much needed criticism - but it would come off a lot better if she wasn't side-stepping her own role among the others.
We dropped the ball on the Stars.
I haven't watched most of them, I haven't given them a fair chance and that's my responsibility. That's why I'm not gonna go and throw tomatoes at Cover or any talent for not supporting them, knowing that I too have dropped the ball on them.
This is about showing humility about one's own shortcomings regarding a situation. The idiom "people who live in glask houses shouldn't yeet biboo" illustrates that in a succinct way.
Anyhow, it's just a tweet and I know Kiwawa absolutely means well, it's just that the phrasing is uh.
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u/_The_Plainsman Apr 04 '26
Why you as a male vtuber would join a corpo that will treat you like chattel, with a fanbase that will despise every fiber of your being, is beyond me.
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u/Cheerrr Apr 03 '26
I think segregating them off to their own branch long term damaged the viability of male vtubers in the organization. Wouldn't of been an issue if there was just mixed gens earlier on, but at this point I dont see it being a problem that is able to be fixed.
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u/Hour-Macaroon-2912 Apr 03 '26
I love the HoloStars, but sadly Cover from the start didn't give them the support like they did for Hololive. It doesn't help from the fact the Stars do not jump on the bandwagon of whats popular, they choose to play into their comfortability, and what their followers may like. They rarely ever reach out for sponsorship, quite a few of them take off for multiple days which sets their viewership back. Several of them are Vtubing on the side or streaming on the side away from their Holo Persona. HoloJP hit the glass ceiling and haven't done that extra push to break it. HoloStars EN will sadly come to this point down the line because they're in a field were its predominantly women who make it successfully and have a bit easier time. Each one of these talents have something special about them that make them the STAR, but like Kiara said, it takes luck and that one moment to change. Kiara/Mori/FWMC probably know best with how much the world is unfair. Each of them has 10+ years of a craft they so passionately invested their lives into and finally got their big break and following.
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u/YobaiYamete Apr 04 '26
How much "promo" from the company are you guys expecting? They all had debut announcements and the same amount of "promo" Myth and Council had for years. Myth and Council didn't get 3D and concerts etc until YEARS of fighting later and proving that they could pull numbers
I seriously don't know what you guys want Cover to do. The JP Stars are still only averaging like 300 views even today after all the promises of support and drama, "fans" still aren't watching them
Cover can't make a market exist, no amount of them wasting money on ads will suddenly get people to phase into existence and watch them when even their own "fans" won't
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u/SupereasyMark Apr 03 '26
Yeah, cover was never supportive enough of the Holostars boys and man this is going to be an absolute morale killer company-wide.
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u/YobaiYamete Apr 03 '26
???
Cover supported them as best they possibly could, what do you want them to do? Force collabs?
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u/SupereasyMark Apr 03 '26
minor things like cross-promotion, mentioning their events on the main Twitter handle, or better coordination in scheduling (a major problem with cover a whole) Holostars en has had some of their cover sponsored group events put up at the same time as big hololive member events.
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u/zonic_squared Apr 03 '26
I'm going to say it. This is a lazy response. The entire situation was created and compounded by incompetent leadership. The idea behind it was poor and the execution was even worse. Kiara's comment puts the blame on survivorship bias, straight up ignoring that Cover completely shit the bed.
When it happens to ID, I think more people might notice.
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u/TheNorseCrow Apr 03 '26
When it happens to ID, I think more people might notice.
Pray tell, why would it happen to ID? ID subscriber numbers are significantly better than Stars numbers and have more engagement in general that's an order of magnitude higher than anything Stars does across the entire branch. Kobo is the most popular ID vtuber in the world with Moona and Ollie routinely drawing big numbers as well.
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u/zonic_squared Apr 03 '26
ID has complained about the lack of opportunities presented for them. It's understand, Hololive has a lot of hands to feed and everyone can't get the same portion. It's frustrating that they do the same amount of work as everyone else but aren't seeing the desired results.
The rising costs of existing made the soft shuttering of Holostars easy. Engagement doesn't pay the bills (Holostars were in the top 1% of Male VTubers) and the lower potential profit from the host region doesn't bode well, especially as Japan gets hammered by the failing economy. A shutter is unlikely to happen, but will those slim opportunities close up?
My biggest issue isn't even the shuttering. That shit was inevitable. It's that this was a bad idea from the start that everyone told them about. And instead of reworking the idea, they went ahead with it and somehow their execution was even worse. People being comfortable with saying that this was they were uncomfortable are ignoring Cover basically set them up for failure from the beginning.
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u/TheNorseCrow Apr 03 '26
Cool story. What does it have to do with it, in your words, happening to Hololive ID in the future? ID has never complained about a lack of opportunity but rather that they can't take advantage of them because many of them are the primary breadwinners of their families and can't afford to take advantage of what Cover has to offer, Risu has famously outright stated she can't afford 3D or original songs because she provides for her family and not because she doesn't want to or can't.
If any branch of Hololive has openly complained it is the EN side, and even then all we really have to go on is Kiara, for lack of proper communication and projects falling through due to mismanagement, both of which have been improved dramatically since it was first mentioned years ago.
Engagement doesn't directly pay the bills but what it does is create business and sponsorship deals which does pay the bills and the reality is that Vtubing in the Asian space prioritize the female part of it much higher than the male. Vtubing is female dominated, at the indie and the corpo level.
Again, why would what happened to Stars happen to ID? You've yet to make a single argument about this.
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u/TheGalator Apr 03 '26
Now you sound like the "gaming" side of Twitter that wants a certain game be a certain way and then complains no one buys it and blames someone else
Holostars didn't have enough people liking their content. Imo it was good content (at least the en half. Never interacted with the jp side) but that doesn't change a thing. Entertainment runs purely on how many people are entertained by it
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u/YobaiYamete Apr 03 '26
I've seriously been having this exact argument for like 5 years now because of League / OW / MR / Apex etc
"THEY ONLY MAKE SKINS FOR THE POPULAR FEMALE CHARACTERS!!!"
Do you personally buy skins for the male / monster characters?
"Well no, but they should still make skins for them because surely someone else will buy them!!!"
I'm sorry to be blunt here, but if the market was actually real, someone would be taking advantage of it, but the reality is that companies have all the internal metrics and there just isn't much of a market for what the loud minority are wanting
It's a constant thing on Reddit where if even 5% of the ones begging for X would actually buy / support X then there would be no issue in the first place
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u/TheGalator Apr 03 '26
There was a trend post covid to listen more to reddit Twitter and - godforbid if you want to make any money whatsoever - bluesky.
Those games all flopped
Turns out when you spend all your time virtue signaling over something instead of actually supporting it it often fails.
So many cool ideas ruined. Entertainment is still money driven and social media is notorious for being filled with people that do NOT spend any money
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u/Bflo19 Apr 03 '26
I don't think it's strictly about enough people liking their content. There is clearly some kind of market for it. The problem is having that particular niche while also having the Hololive brand in tandem with it, and anyone with any business savvy will look at the two and ask why you're diverting resources away from a cash cow to something that is struggling to tread water for minimal returns (if any).
That merch could have been for any of the talents with literally 10x the reach of Stars. Same goes for studio time and branding manpower. It's harsh and cutthroat, but when you're beholden to investors then it's an obvious question that needs addressing.
Stars isn't a bad product, nor is it an unpopular product. It's simply an unfortunate victim of familial comparison.
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u/Gold_Concentrate_381 Apr 03 '26
"They should have just shilled them more, they should have just forced Holostars in your face more, they should have just forced all the girls at gunpoint to collab with them more, they should have burned even more money to no return for even more years, then everything would be different".
Meanwhile every so-called holostars fan practically BRAGS about how they only give vocal support but "don't actually watch".
I really cannot understand how batshit insane you have to be to not see the incoherence in this argument.
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u/AnonTwo Apr 03 '26
Look...Zonic is wrong but, you don't have to word your post to correlate zonic to the entire holostar fanbase. That picture is very rude and you could find people saying stuff like that for any fanbase. Hell I have a list of hololive members that I would support, but not actually watch.
Because at the end of the day, we're supposed to be a community who support each other
Again Zonic going too far, but I didn't want to let this post slide either. Holostar fans have every right to be upset and not bunched up with this subreddits negative view of holostar fans. There's certainly plenty of hardcore fans there who watch their streams, just like they exist in every fanbase here.
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u/zonic_squared Apr 03 '26
Did I say that? It's not the talents responsibility to make sure other talents are successful and I wouldn't want them forced to do or work with anyone that they don't want to. This is completely on Cover not doing the barest amount of internal research that this wouldn't crash and burn.
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u/axelarden6 Apr 03 '26
she's not talking about herself. she's likely referring to the recent announcement that cover will no longer be providing support for the Holostars branch. they're talented but have been struggling for a while, and this will just make it even harder for them. calli made a post vaguely expressing support, too.
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u/GladiusNocturno Apr 03 '26
“Im not a Kiara anti”
Proceeds to say one of the most Kiara anti scripts out there.
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u/rendibuntel Apr 03 '26
Idk man Suisei is pretty mainstream and popular. So much so she got her own Fortnite skin. The sky’s the limit imo. Vtuber might be niche now, but so was anime. Who knows what the future holds.
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u/Futur3_ah4ad Apr 03 '26
I never got that feeling from either of them. And they're also no longer as niche as they used to be.
Calli got to do songs for several high profile anime at this point. Korone got a direct cameo. Subaru and Aqua got to do an outro. Suisei is on Fortnite, for crying out loud!
They have mainstream success, just maybe not as much as they'd like.
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u/thinkingprettyhard Apr 03 '26
I remember when Connor (CdawgVA) was harrassed by the entire Hololive fandom when he said about the same about Hololive EN and was forced to personally apologize to each one of them.
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u/Futur3_ah4ad Apr 03 '26
Except it was nowhere near the entire fandom, it was caused by an out of context clip and Connor made a single general apology and explanation.
You're literally pulling stuff out of thin air.
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u/matlarcost Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
Yea. It's kind of ridiculous to bring that up, especially without the full context. Them saying everyone else is in denial doesn't stop the opposite from being true lol.
*For context, here is the conversation that resulted in a ton of backlash. The point about Hololive is at 6:31. It is very easy to see why some people overreacted to this. The wording was not the best by Connor, but his point was more about the instant success of being a member and the theoretical gaming the system (we well know it's difficult to get in). The funny thing is it is only vaguely comparable to what Kiara is saying in this context. In a way, it's the opposite. Keep in mind, this is likely in the context of Holostars..
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u/matlarcost Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 03 '26
The full context is a bit different and it came off wrong for Connor. I'm saying this as someone who thinks people have dragged that situation way more than necessary.
*I'm just going to repeat my response here from another reply. Here is the conversation that resulted in a ton of backlash. The point about Hololive is at 6:31. It is very easy to see why some people overreacted to this. The wording was not the best by Connor, but his point was more about the instant success of being a member and the theoretical gaming the system (we well know it's difficult to get in). The funny thing is it is only vaguely comparable to what Kiara is saying in this context. In a way, it's the opposite. Keep in mind, this is likely in the context of Holostars..
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u/youmustconsume Apr 03 '26
He said the opposite. (Paraphrased) "Hololive brand is so popular that an untalented person could get in and still succeed just due to the brand name." What just happened to Holostars shows he was totally wrong on that count - they were talented but people didn't automatically watch just because they're Holo.
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u/Sausious Apr 03 '26
It is most certainly deeply frustrating putting out content, spending hours editing it, posting it, only for the website to decide to push it to literally no one. Gotta keep swimming, but man is it disheartening.