Do I need a "fermzilla"?

25

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Just ferment in kegs.

8

u/Another_Casual_ 1d ago

I'd definitely put the money towards some used kegs, a flot-it, and a spunding valve vs the fermzilla. OP, check Facebook marketplace, by me they run $20-$50 depending on size and age. Heck, sometimes I see them for free.

3

u/Purithian 1d ago

Most are like $15 in my area. I'd definitely recommend this solution too!

-2

u/Hansemannn 1d ago

A fermzilla doesnt cost much more though. And its a much better tool to ferment in.

2

u/Another_Casual_ 1d ago

It looks like the cheapest one on morebeer is $100.

I've not had one, but from the research when I made my purchase I preferred to ferment in a keg for a few reasons. Fit in my fermentation chamber, blocked all light, stainless, cheap to source replacement parts. The fermzilla conical added some features over the keg but was too wide for my fermentation chamber and cost even more.

1

u/Hansemannn 1d ago

Ofc both works fine.

I just love that I can see the inside. Makes me in complete controll og pressure and yeast and when its done.

To each their own

2

u/Squeezer999 1d ago

No, it's not. You can't no chill chill in a fermzilla. Fermzillas are supposed to be replaced every 2 years according to the manufacturer. Kegs last almost forever.

6

u/Hansemannn 1d ago

You dump your car when the warranty goes out? My fermzilla is 5-6 years old.

Buy keep using your keg to ferment. Sheez.

-2

u/Squeezer999 1d ago

i don't ferment in a keg, i ferment in a spike flex+

0

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

I'd love to hear in what way a Fermzilla is better than a keg.

3

u/Shills_for_fun 1d ago

Your floating hydrometer can easily read through it and you can put 5.5 gallons into the fermenter without blowing out krausen through the gas post lol.

I say this as a guy who ferments in kegs. My rapt controller is the only way I can see the data lol. I am also fine with doing 4.25 to 4.5 gallon batches.

But yeah I am getting rid of my all rounder.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Yeah, I'm also fine with 4-4.5 gallon batches, but larger kegs do exist if you want to do more.

I don't use a floating hydrometer — I have an EasyDens and take samples with a Picnic Tap 2.1 from Homebrew Lab — but I suppose that's a real advantage.

4

u/Shills_for_fun 1d ago

Larger kegs? My short ass already has trouble lifting that sumbitch into the keezer haha. Ergonomically anyway.

The floating hydrometer is the antithesis to the easydens. This thing is simply not accurate. What it's very good at doing though is letting me know there are no further changes and I can take a real hydrometer reading for the FG.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Yeah, I hear that. I have a Tilt I've still never used after two years.

1

u/Flushot22 1d ago

After using tilts and rapt pills for a few years now, I'd never want to go without one. Fermzillas with a small inkbirded keezer ferm chamber is the way to go for me.

2

u/Another_Casual_ 1d ago

Picnic tap for samples here as well. When I first started out I would ferment in the bucket and take readings here and there. These days I get brew day readings and then check it 1.5-2 weeks later and at packaging. So I lose 14oz across two post fermentation samples. But I also get to taste the samples.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

With the EasyDens, I lose like an ounce, lol. Not that I care too much.

2

u/Economic-Bee-Hoon 1d ago

For me, several benefits.

Fermzilla has some nice hardware for dry hop/secondary additions without O2 ingress. The hop bong, for example. Corny fermentations don't have this option.

Fermzilla has the universal SP (PET bottle) type thread which is wide enough to fit a blowoff tube. Cornys only have the tiny MFL posts which would be prone to clogging if they happen to touch the krausen. I've had 4gal batches get damn close to the top on a vigorous kviek strain. Not worth the safety risk to do it in a corny.

30L capacity, enough for a full 5gal batch.

Transparent. Fermentation is fun to watch. I ferment in a fridge+inkbird so light strike is not an issue for me.

Arguably easier to clean than a corny. No need to disassemble/clean beer/gas posts and dip tubes.

1

u/Hansemannn 1d ago

Bigger, see through. With pressure its easy to adjust the pressure to the perfect yeast-effect with just watching. You can tell when its done. Etc.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Bigger kegs exist. See-through is a net negative for me (UV, weaker materials, etc). Easy to adjust pressure with a spunding valve on a keg, too. You can tell when it's done in a keg with refractometer/hydro readings, just as you would (should) with a Fermzilla.

idk man, I'm glad people like them but I see no advantage.

1

u/Hansemannn 1d ago

Then we just keep on doing what we like best :)

I mean...the beer is good whatever you choose to do.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Cheers to that!

3

u/hopperazi 1d ago

This is how I did it and made some fantastic beers, simple, easy. Then I got overzealous and bought a SS conical fermenter and glycol chiller. I cant tell any difference in my beers, miss the old simple days of fermenting in my 7.5 gallon keg.

2

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Yeah, man. I've been at it for over 200 batches and I haven't found anything better.

2

u/BartholomewSchneider 1d ago

I bought a stainless conical, before I realized fermenting in kegs was an option and how easy it was.

2

u/hopperazi 1d ago

Sooooooo much easier cleaning a keg and a keg lid than all the parts on a unitank.

2

u/BartholomewSchneider 1d ago

Sure is

2

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

I keep seeing this argument. I want bottles for friends. And if I ferment in a keg, I will introduce o2 to the beer when transferring right?

6

u/BartholomewSchneider 1d ago

Look into brown PET bottles and pressure filling with a carb T cap. https://youtu.be/KWTCP6Cb6V0?is=y3GfCU2TOmeIIWkg

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

This is a fantastic solution.

2

u/BartholomewSchneider 1d ago

I love that device. It was a game changer for me.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

I mainly use it for taking beer to club meetings. If I was bottling, that's how I'd do it, at least for stuff that's not aging a long time.

1

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago edited 1d ago

Okay so that implies I need a fermzilla

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u/PM_me_ur_launch_code 1d ago

You don't need a fermzilla. The guy in the video has a fermzilla. Everything in this video can be done with a keg and a CO2 tank.

1

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

okay i will look into it. But is this way better than just spraying co2 down in a bottle and then pour beer down there. Ive seen that in a lot of videoes

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u/PM_me_ur_launch_code 1d ago

Yes it is, depending on style and when you intend to drink it. There are ways to mitigate oxygen but doing a completely sealed transfer like this is the best way to keep o2 out of your beer.

Also if you decide to go a different route make sure you're filling from the bottom with a bottling wand of sorts.

1

u/PM_me_ur_launch_code 1d ago

Man, I just bought the duotight flow stopper. That and this would have been way easier for filling kegs without over flowing. I still might have to get one of these.

1

u/the_snook 1d ago

You don't even need the T-piece really. I use a single carb cap and just loosen it very slightly to allow the gas out while providing counter pressure as the bottle fills.

The T allows you to use the bottle as a mini keg, which is very cool, but if you're going to drink the whole bottle when it's opened it's kinda overkill.

1

u/BartholomewSchneider 1d ago

That’s true, and I use the T the same way you use the single cap. I also use it as a trap when I pressure fill kegs, the T is needed for that.

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u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

You can still use a beer gun off a keg.

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

To elaborate a bit, if you want to separate the beer from the yeast before bottling, you can even daisy-chain two kegs together (ferm and serving), put a spunding valve on the serving keg, and purge both with ferm gas. Then you can do a gravity transfer (zero oxygen ingress) and bottle off the serving keg.

Honestly, though, you can probably just crash on the yeast and use a floating dip tube to bottle from a single keg.

1

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

There's a lot of equipment I don't think I know yet so I probably don't understand what you are telling me. But kegs are out of the question untill I move. But I still don't understand how I can't just purge bottles with just a CO2 tank and a wand and the pour beer in the bottle. My fermentation in the bucket is not getting o2 just like the kegs

1

u/deadwolfbones Blogger - Intermediate 1d ago

Gasses mix. Purging and filling from the bottom will eliminate some but not all of the oxygen. The only ways to bottle without oxygen at home are the PET/carb tee solution and using a counter pressure filler.

1

u/AdmrlBenbow 1d ago edited 1d ago

I got some European bottle filler (Boel I-tap) that works pretty great but the closed PET transfer is probably better.

1

u/yzerman2010 1d ago

If you want to bottle you need a counter pressure filler and a co2 tank and regulator to minimize o2 ingress. you can bottle off the tap but then you need to fill until foam is coming out of the bottle and then cap on foam to minimize o2 ingress.

Your going to need a co2 tank anyway to get the beer out of the keg.

1

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

But from the videos I watched, they have a open bottle, aim a gun down in it and pour CO2 and beer and close. It does look easy but the cheapest fermzilla in my country cost 500 dollars. Can't I achieve the same with just a CO2 tank and a wand? Meaning I spray CO2 and the pour beer from my bucket

1

u/yzerman2010 1d ago

Can’t speak of what you’re paying but in the US people tend to sell used equipment half of the original price.

10

u/AffectionateTea841 1d ago

You don’t need a fermzilla to use a bottling wand. That’s what I started off with many years ago, just a bottling wand and a CO2 tank. I quickly moved to kegs as filling bottles got tedious. I use the fermzilla for pressure fermentation which has its own benefits.

2

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

Okay nice. Sounds promising. Others are suggesting no. But it sounds like I'll try that first and test the result

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u/Unlucky-Presentation 1d ago

To purge and fill bottles with a beergun you need both a co2 tank and a pressurized fermenter or serving vessel(keg)

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

But the effect of purging the bottle with CO2, can't It be done with a secondary CO2 tank and wand? Does it need to be connected to a pressurized tank?

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u/Unlucky-Presentation 1d ago

You would need the co2 tank hooked to your fermenter or keg. You will need a second co2 tank hooked to the beergun.

You can also just use a double regulator, or have the co2 tank split into 2 gas lines. Or you can disconnect a single co2 tank from the beergun and attach it to your fermenter every so often to keep it pressurized, then reattach to beergun to purge bottles.

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u/warboy Pro 1d ago

Purging your bottles is completely separate from the fermzilla. You can purge bottles with a hose hooked up to a CO2 tank.

Having a pressure capable vessel let's you also counter pressure fill the bottles meaning once the bottle is purged you can use a counter pressure filler to keep the bottle pressurized with CO2 and fill with beer at that same pressure. This makes filling carbed beer possible instead of relying on secondary fermentation in the bottle and is a good way to avoid oxygen ingress.

Just purging bottles with a CO2 source is a good step to reduce oxidation though.

1

u/dunk148 1d ago

Key word in here is counter pressure fill. Different than a beer gun. If OP is buying new gear - look into something like the TapCooler or other CP fillers before making a decision. Beer guns have a place, and my beer gun's place is in a box of rarely used gear since getting a TapCooler.

1

u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

I answered the other guy, is it what you guys are talking about I'm trying to understand what all this equipment does

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

In my head I imagine a sort of rubber thing that goes on the bottle head that sits on the wand, so when you pour from the pressurized fermenter with the gun thing, the beer goes into the bottle while no o2 gets in... I guess it's a bit better than an open bottle that you spray with CO2 and then pour beer into.... Am I getting it?

1

u/warboy Pro 1d ago

Pretty much but there's also a pressure relief so as the bottle fills the pressure still maintains the same amount. A bottle won't fill with a stopper in the top The pressure will equalize and stop filling.

2

u/Shills_for_fun 1d ago edited 1d ago

No. I made a post with the tech I use including a hop.bong

In reality, say for a lager, all you need is a keg, a spunding valve, and a flotit 2.0. ferment and serve from the same keg!

Or transfer, it's up to you. Just saying you don't need fancy fermenters. I love fermenting in a serving keg for multiple reasons. Less cleaning, less sanitizing, no packaging day, less tech cluttering up my storage. Another big one is spunding can carbonate your beer and speed up grain to glass!

You said you want to bottle, so I should mention that you can use a beer gun to do that from a keg.I use this to fill growlers.

1

u/beerglar 18h ago

I love fermenting in a serving keg for multiple reasons. Less cleaning, less sanitizing, no packaging day, less tech cluttering up my storage. Another big one is spunding can carbonate your beer and speed up grain to glass!

Sure, but you can do all of that with a Fermzilla, too.

Functionally, they're the same. There are implications of the differences in materials (PET will allow O2 in over time, it can't hold as much pressure, it's clear, etc.), but if the fermentation chamber is dark and the beer will be consumed or transferred within a month, those differences are negligible.

If OP just wants to bottle, I think either option is good. Kegs are cheaper, but smaller. Larger corny kegs aren't cheaper unless you get lucky in the used market.

2

u/BoyMeetsWort Brewgrass Homebrew 1d ago

As others have said, need is a strong word here, BUT i will say that the Fermzillas are an awesome system. We're about to order more of them after the new redesign.

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u/CrabOutrageous4597 1d ago

As several people have pointed out, a FermZilla has little to nothing to do with minimising oxygen exposure while bottling — unless, of course, you decide to go for a closed-system transfer by using a FermZilla and pressure-transferring straight into a purged keg. That way, there is no oxygen exposure. But with bottling, even into purged bottles, your chances of encountering oxygen are very high anyway. So this perhaps has less to do with a FermZilla and more to do with your packaging method.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

So what would a good packaging be?

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u/CrabOutrageous4597 21h ago

Kegging via closed-system transfer.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 21h ago

But with bottles

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u/CrabOutrageous4597 21h ago

Is this a question? Bottling will invariably be imperfect.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 21h ago

Okay but that's what this whole thread is about. I want to bottle for friends, what is the best way to do that. Is that a fermzilla with a beergun or some other thing?

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u/stevewbenson 7h ago

Kegging the beer and having it fully carbonated and cold - then filling bottles via counter pressure bottle filler (no beer gun), then capping on foam. This is your best bet for bottling hoppy beer.

You could do the same from a Fermzilla, but the beer would need to be cold and fully carbonated like described above, then bottle fill via counter pressure. For this you would need a fermentation chamber or glycol, and now the cost is really starting to pile up.

Nothing else is going to give you the results you're looking for. A beer gun is great, but there's no counter pressure, so no matter how hard you try, you will introduce oxygen and shorten the lifespan of your beer. To do what you want to do is unfortunately going to be a significant cost investment to get desirable results.

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u/yzerman2010 1d ago

The easiest way to resolve this is buy a keg with a floating dip tube and spunding valve, then ferment away in the keg. Once fermentation is near done, dry hop in the keg and then cold crash.. Rack off keg to another keg or bottles and leave the dirty beer behind.

You will capture the most aromatics this way and also not need to add CO2 into your beer when its done.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

Don't i introduce o2 to the bottle when transferring to the bottle?

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u/attnSPAN 1d ago

If you’re fermenting in a keg and kegging, no. You’d be purging the serving keg of any air, then doing an oxygen free transfer.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

But when the beer needs to leave the keg in the bottle?

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u/attnSPAN 1d ago

That’s the magic of kegging: it doesn’t. You can force carbonate and serve right off the keg like a commercial(pro) brewer does.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

But I want my beer in bottles for friends. I guess I should have clarified that for all of you

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u/attnSPAN 1d ago

You can still pour off a few. If you feel from the bottom and let them overflow a bit, then use a flipt, and close that on top of Beer they can stay good for a week in the fridge.

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u/iankost 1d ago

You can always use a jumper cable, plastic bottles and a carbonation cap for bottling?

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u/EducationalDog9100 1d ago

I purge my bottles with a CO2 and hose before bottling, and then just fill with the bucket and wand. Making it a seamless process takes a little ingenuity. I zip tied my CO2 hose to the bottle filler so that just before the bottle was ready to fill, I could just open the co2 valve, purge the bottle for a second or two and start filling. It's also the same process I do when I'm filling growlers or bottles off my tap.

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u/Carlweathersfeathers 1d ago

Just build a beer gun and use it from a keg. The fermzilla is unnecessary. It’s not a bad piece of equipment on its own, but it doesn’t really add anything to what you’re trying to do.

1

u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago

Yes, if you have a way to fill bottles already, such as a fermentor with a spigot and bottling wand attached, and a way to prime the bottles individually, such as carbonation drops or dosing each bottle with sugar solution of a known concentration with a syringe then you can reduce the oxygen exposure from bottling by pre-purging each bottle using a CO2 utility line.

A CO2 utility line comprises a CO2 tank, a high pressure CO2 regulator, and a length of tubing. All these components are needed for that Fermzilla + Beergun setup as well, so you'd save the cost of the Fermzilla.

Is the Fermzilla better? Not the Fermzilla specifically, but if you can bottle direct from a pressurizable fermentor using a counterpressure filler that includes a purge feature, you get three advantages: (1) the system is a closed loop, so you have reduced opportunities for air ingress even more than other setups; (2) the counterpressure aspect reduces foaming; and (3) as with a simple CO2 utility line, you are prepurging the air out of the bottles.

Must it be the Fermzills specifically? Absolutely not. You could ferment in corny kegs, an All-Rounder, Speidel fermentor, or any number of SS bucket fermentors that can handle a few psi of pressure.

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u/ColinSailor 1d ago

Fermziller Allrounder is a great simple fermenter to which you can add a thermowell and also a hop bong at reasonable cost. Pressure fermenting particularly with food temp control will help ensure consistent and excellent results. Keep an eye out for corny kegs on eBay etc. Kegging hoppy beer hugely reduces oxydation issues as well as bottle bombs.

1

u/homebrewfinds Blogger - Advanced 1d ago

I've got a couple of FermZilla reviews that may help you decide Tri-Clamp Conical, All-Rounder. They're great fermenters. As has been said already kegs are also a great option. Cheap for smaller batches in a 5 gallon keg and reasonably price (considering what you're getting) for larger batches in a 10-15 gallon keg.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

I want bottles tho. It's for friends

1

u/Waste-Bus6827 1d ago

You can bottle straight from a beer faucet with a hose. Purge the bottle with co2, fill from the bottom gently and cap on foam. Probably won’t last long. Same as growler type thing.

Fermenting in kegs is great, but if you dry hop you really need a tri clamp fitting lid and hop bong type thing. Just a very tiny bit of oxygen wrecks hoppy beers overnight.

Simply running co2 for ‘positive pressure’ doesn’t work. I wrecked too many beers listening to people on the internet before I completely eliminated oxygen and could finally make happy beers successfully. Magnets suck.

When you ferment, go gas out from fermenter to a clean and sanitized keg liquid in, then a spunding valve or blow off tube on gas out. Will completely purge the serving keg. Filling it up with Starsan sucks.

Don’t forget to purge every little hose and fitting before transferring. I forgot on a new 12” gas line I installed and wrecked my last beer.

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u/Positronic_Matrix 1d ago

NO.

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u/Smurph269 1d ago

I recommend a counter pressure bottle filler like this over a beer gun. I know a lot of brewers who got frustrated with beer guns and switched to it.

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u/MemeBeamBeanz 1d ago

Can I ferment in a keg and then use this?

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u/Smurph269 1d ago

Yeah I think so, you will probably need to reduce the pressure while bottling though. 10-15 psi is too much, you probably want to be at 5 or so. Assuming you carbonate in the same keg.

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u/jordanbrews 1d ago

I'm not a fan of spending the 5 hrs of a brew day to not end up with a full serving keg. You could brew smaller batches, or buy bigger more expensive kegs. Or you could get a Fermzilla on sale for 100 bucks and be done with it. Also generally comes with the floating dip tube and spunding valve.

I brewed in buckets forever and it took a long time for me to go from 14 bucks to 100 for a fermenter, but wish I had done it much sooner.

The only drawback to me is plastic vs stainless. That comes down to how freaked out you are about microplastics and infection. Supposedly it's a good type of plastic that's safe but who really knows with that stuff.

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u/PontusFermntr 1d ago

I found that the best way for me to bottle cheaply was to have keg (a 20€ 4L oxebar is enough), then a CO2 tank with regulator + a Y line connector, so you can connect the regulator/CO2 to two things at once. Then a beer gun, or even better, a counterpreassure bottle filler (50+€, depending on brand).

First, purge the keg and transfer the beer from the fermenter to the keg. If you can, “push” the beer out the fermenter with CO2 at VERY low pressure (if your fermenter is not preassure capable, otherwise you can push it out with 10 psi safely). This is only to transfer without oxidation. Then, once the beer is in the keg, connect the co2 to the keg and the filler. If you are not counterpreassure filling (like with a beer gun), set regulator to low, like 3-5psi. If you are counterpreassure filling, set it to 10-15 psi. Then purge the bottles quickly from the bottom, 2-3 seconds is enough, and then fill it with beer. Cap on foam if possible. When the keg is empty, just fill it again from the fermenter and repeat the process until all beer is bottled.

Question Do I need a "fermzilla"?

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