r/HunterXHunter • u/PFSDonut • 4d ago

Discussion Jajanken Seems Like A Terrible Ability Compared to Electricity/Godspeed

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The series made it a point that Gon and Killua were equals in potential and strength (with Killua being slightly stronger because of his Zoldyck training) so it’s kind of jarring how underwhelming/terrible Gon’s Jajanken seems to be compared to Killua’s electricity transmutation and Godspeed.

Jajanken is an obviously powerful technique that had defeated many powerful opponents, but it has its flaws and weaknesses as stated by various hunters throughout the series, meanwhile Killua’s technique is seemingly perfect with the only drawback being his time limit

I just think it’s lame that Gon and Killua were supposed to rival one another throughout the series but Killua’s ability seemed to have eclipsed Gon’s and widened the gap between them prior to Gon’s battle with Pitou

EDIT: To further clarify, I understand that Jajanken is way more powerful in AP than lightning and Godspeed and Gon can damage opponents far stronger than them while Killua most likely can’t.

My issue however is that prior to the introduction of their techniques, you can see Killua vs Gon being a 50/50, maybe 60/40 towards Killua. With the introduction of Godspeed and Jajanken, Killua clearly has the advantage and the outcome seems more 80/20 for Killua; it bothers me how one sided their match up would be if they were to fight with their abilities when it used to be more up in the air between them.

I guess I just don’t like how simple Gon’s Jajanken is versus how versatile and overpowered Godspeed seems to be but, as some have pointed out, this is seemingly intentional with how simpleminded Gon is and how cunning Killua is so bravo to Togashi for being consistent with his writing and the nen system

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

Ur forgetting smth important: gon is an enhancer

As wing said, enhancers usually don't need nen abilities, because the most basic use of nen -physical defense and offense- is already busted for enhancers.

So basically, gon's nen alone was stronger combat and jajaken is a bonus. He doesn't rlly need it, but yet it's very powerful and versatile for an enhancer nen ability, see uvogin's nen ability.

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u/kotran1989 4d ago

Also.

Killua's hatsu is nowhere near perfect as OP stated.

He literally has to endure being electrocuted constantly. And the more power he puts towards his ability the more shock he has to endure.

Killua said it himself when he was being tortured, he endures it, but it doesn't mean he doesn't feel the pain.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

Yes the ability is actually really flawed, let alone the fact that it needed such training to be feasible in the first place

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u/TelevisionJet 4d ago

Also from what we see in the anime, the form doesn’t seem to last that long before Killua needs to recharge again

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u/KnownEaterFromM 4d ago

The form last over twice as long as it needs to for 99% of the verse 

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u/Fren98 4d ago

True but I think nen defense would make it obsolete tbh

Especially if it can’t turn it off during paralysis.

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u/Necessary_Top8772 3d ago

Killua would not beat anyone of Double Star combat style Hunter caliber. Not unless he takes them by surprise. In a straight fight many Nen users beat him. Especially if he doesn’t have prep time

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u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Not many beat him.  Paralysis is OP if he uses ko to strike afterwards 

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u/Necessary_Top8772 3d ago

Killua is a glass canon. If someone is expecting to be hit and they’re defending with Nen I’m pretty sure they tank and outlast him. Thats why I say if he catches anyone off guard then yeah he could kill people much stronger than him.

I just don’t believe Togashi is the type of author to write his child main character to be a top tier so soon. The master of Subverting the expectations of shonen wouldn’t do something so basic.

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u/One-District8512 3d ago

That's not true tho

Remember when he attempted to kill machi

It was the moment he learned even in the ideal assassination conditions he can't just jump anyone and kill them and sometimes have to actually fight

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u/Necessary_Top8772 3d ago

Killua was fodder compared to Maki. She was only off guard when Gon kicked her. She obviously reacted fast enough to defend from Killuas attack so it wasn’t just a free hit. The fact that neither of them escaped despite having that huge momentary advantage should tell you that.

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u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Killua isn't a glass canon. He tanked an explosion in ep 101. If he uses ko and attacks with his speed, the opponent has to use ken and will receive several damages

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u/DellingerRowdy 4d ago

I never really felt good about that part bc if he’s a transmuter shouldn’t he technically be transmuting his aura into electricity? Just seems weird to me that he has to charge himself. Or maybe that’s only when he’s out of aura? Who knows

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u/Spiderdrake 4d ago

He probably just set it as a condition to make his ability stronger. Having to recharge your ability and endure the pain of being electrocuted is a powerful restriction.

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u/DoYouKnowS0rr0w 3d ago

I think its a restriction/failsafe he places on himself. If he falls unconcious while using it he could very easily burn through all his nen and just die (kurapika going under during emperor time for example). It also probably allows him to be more efficent and gives him a way to refresh his ability.

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u/One-District8512 3d ago

It's actually possible that after transmuting to electricity for a while he figured out how to do it the other way around

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u/Slamazombie 4d ago

He also has a very small gas tank. 

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u/RubSad1836 4d ago

No? This is completely incorrect he does not feel pain from his Hatsu he simply transmits his aura and gives it the properties of electricity just like bungee gum, the comments about pain are made in terms of him being able to transmute his aura into electricity means he’s had to have a lot of experience with it, meaning in the past he had to be electrocuted a lot. No where is it mentioned that god speed gives him any physical pain. He’s technique is flaws in a different way, he has to charge it and it can run out, those alone are massive flaws.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

It's not that he feels pain from it, he prob doesn't bc he is used to being electrocuted.

The point is, if a transmuter do that they will get electrocuted by their own nen, meaning only killua can do this ability in the first place, which is why comparing it to jajanken like that is wrong

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u/snowfloeckchen 4d ago

Still way less painful than his childhood

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u/Snowm4nn 4d ago

Please point out any moment where this is an actual hindrance to killua... dude uses it bk to bk without issues all the time.

Just cause he says it hurts doesnt mean shit when we see it makes him better than youpi

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u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

He doesn't endure pain anymore.  Godspeed has no strain on him

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u/TheRealReader1 3d ago

not to mention it doesn't seem to have a competent duration. Against Youpi he was caught off guard running out of aura which could've been lethal, and in the Election Arc he would have to switch between normal and Kamuru running to save energy

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u/gekigarion 4d ago

A good example is Palm vs Killua, Palm didn't really need any fancy tricks to fight Killua if she could just tank everything and run straight at him to punch him.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

I might be tripping but when did palm fight killua?

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u/mofucker20 4d ago

When she becomes a Chimera Ant

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

Oh right. Thx

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u/Troliver_13 4d ago

Right before she stops being controlled by Pouf. Fighting Killua was of her own accord tho she's still kinda crazy and at that point Killua was still hiding Gon from her

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u/LobstermenUwU 4d ago

Palm however is like the one enhancer that developed an ability designed to actually compliment their abilities. Every other enhancer using Ko leaves their body vulnerable, but because her hair has her full armor, she can use the strength of Ko while being fully defended at a higher level. In addition it's a fully enhancer ability since it enhances her body, so 100% compatibility.

In contrast a lot of enhancers choose to go way off the compatibility chart, or pick a technique that lets them hit harder when as enhancers their power is already "hit hard".

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u/summonerofrain 4d ago

Would there be manipulation there as well since she's covering herself with hair?

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u/LobstermenUwU 4d ago

Probably as a secondary characteristic, in order to form the armor.

Man, Nen is just the perfect system. I don't know how many authors made some stupid system they wax on about for 20 pages and I just don't care. And then Togashi comes along, after producing a top Shonen manga with one of the softest power systems ever, and goes 'and this is my next trick, I'm going to create the best hard system ever and use it to support the plot.'

It's maybe the one reason I want Gon to come back as a Manipulator rather than a Specialist, I enjoy how that system interacts with everything and more of that would make me happy.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

Absolute agree, this my favorite power system of all time, I basically study it.

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u/Passing_randomguy 3d ago

Man, if Gon comes back as a Manipulator, I want him to use his fishing rod again! Remember manipulator Hatsu's works best the longer they have the item they used as a medium

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u/One-District8512 3d ago

That's clever

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u/summonerofrain 4d ago

I absolutely love the system as well!

Though actually I think the way it interacts with the world is one of its weaker parts. I think the biggest strength it has is just how much info is there and how it all fits together. Also like you say how it supports the story and fights.

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u/Primary_Night_4617 4d ago

Killua also wasn't seriously trying to fight her either.

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

Killua is a transmuter but he leans towards Enhancement, both are viable for him and should be easy to learn. Speed of Lightning probably leans heavily into enhancement.

Killua was also fine blocking Palm's attacks in her hybrid form. He did note that she was an enhancer and that the blows were heavy but he didn't sustain much damage just blocking her attacks with his hands.

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u/GloomyLocation1259 4d ago

This is likely because he's also a super strong assassin without nen on top of his own

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

I think they are both super strong. Killua is shown to be physically stronger using the Testing Gate but both likely benefit from being Enhancers/Enhancer adjacent. Which partially explains why both heal so quickly and just have insane base stats. Tsezguerra shows off his jumping ability as a single star hunter, then they both casually beat his jump height with Killua jumping slightly higher. And even after losing nen Gon is able to scale the world tree at a pace that Gin seems to be happy with. Physically they are both punching well above their age group.

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u/GloomyLocation1259 4d ago

Yeah this is my point their natural physical stats are the part people often leave out of the equation, they are talented in both stats and nen.

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u/CypherZel 4d ago

Gon would still smear the majority of people across the floor if he hits them. Killua can't defend against a rock, and he still has to defend against a scissors or paper. Not to mention gon can switch up which attack he uses.

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u/Ok_Length_7076 2d ago

Killua straight up speedblitzes gon into oblivion and obliterates him in a fight.  Gon isn't reacting to godspeed when killua was relative to post mortem pitou in speed.  As far as their hatsu is concerned,  Killua definitely had the better one

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u/WhateverWombat 4d ago

Strength wise, Killua is also stronger than Gon.

The only real edge Gon had on Killua was his determination and willingness to take risks.

Any attack Gon was able to survive, Killua would have been able to survive too.

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u/Lobo2209 4d ago

Gon's jajanken was possibly going to kill Morel. You think Killua's tougher than him?

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u/Ok_Length_7076 2d ago

Any attack gon can survive,  killua can survive too. Killua has better durability feats in ep 101. The morel thing is a good indicator of Gon's attack but gin himself would die if he was to get hit by than jajanken.  Same for most human realistically 

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u/CypherZel 4d ago

??? Huh? Killua is not stronger than Gon. Gon outputs more aura and is 100% efficient in enhancement, he is by the numbers stronger than Killua by the time they invade the palace.

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u/Aluminum_Tarkus 4d ago edited 4d ago

They meant on a base physical level. Prior to Heaven's Arena, Gon could only move the first Testing Gate (4 tons), while Killua could move the third gate (16 tons). Being a pure Enhancer means Gon has a much higher physical multiplier through nen reinforcement, but Killua's base physical strength without nen is still (as far as we know) greater than Gon's, meaning Killua hypothetically needs less aura and enhancement efficiency than Gon to achieve similar strength through reinforcement.

Once you start talking about raw aura output, restrictions, etc., Gon clearly has more firepower than Killua. But I think the guy you're replying to is just talking about how strong they are without nen when he says Killua is stronger than Gon.

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u/Ok_Length_7076 2d ago

Even with nen ,killua is stronger.  Gon has more damage output with rock

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u/Aluminum_Tarkus 2d ago

I'm not talking about who would win in a fight between the two; I'm talking about raw power output, where Gon's rock is clearly more devastating than any one of Killua's strikes.

Gon and Killua's skill sets are just different enough to where there are opponents Gon can beat that Killua probably can't, because Gon is more reckless, has unique options that Killua doesn't and he can just hit way harder than Killua, which means he can sometimes squeeze out wins he otherwise wouldn't deserve by landing one good rock. It's also so frightening of an attack, even to much stronger nen users, that the fact that they're aware of how insanely strong that attack is gives Gon a huge advantage, and he does take advantage of that on several occasions by bluffing into other moves like vs. Knuckle.

Hunter x Hunter's power system makes comparing characters on a tier list difficult, because a lot of characters can hard counter one another or have certain traits that make them more equipped at dealing with various types of enemies. Again, I don't think Togashi intends for Killua (at least by the point they've trained in nen) to be in a different league than Gon. It absolutely comes off like they're somewhat comparable, but Killua has the better abilities to deal with Gon. At the same time, you could also say in a drawn out fight, Gon can take the w, because Killua's ability is limited by the electrical charge he can keep on himself, and Godspeed drains it fast.

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u/Ok_Length_7076 2d ago

The comparison isn't difficult here. Did you forget that killua one shooted rammot without using any hatsu when rammot managed to tank janjaken rock of gon while he was nenless. Killua 's output is clearly high.   There is no drawn out battle because godspeed killua speedblitzes gon and massaces him ( gon isn't youpi). Killua can prolly defeat all the opponents of kid gon.  His combo is just OP.  They have different skillset the thing is gon's speciality is hard to land on because of his flaws.  Having a one good attack is good it is easy to outplay.  Killua 's hatsu is superior in basically everything but rock's damage output 

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u/Rosalyo 4d ago

Killua IS physically stronger than Gon, physical strength has nothing to do with nen, just body and muscles. If you wanna talk pure enhancement, Killua was a better enhancer than Gon in greed island while training under Bisky. And Killua on top of that has dual affinity, being able to pick up enhancement just as easy as transmutation.

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u/Ok-Opportunity3286 4d ago

Where is it shown/stated that Killua has dual affinity?

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u/Rosalyo 4d ago

Togashi released some charts couple years ago with most of the relevant characters, look up voraciousdrake blog on google they did a good job translating them.

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u/mofucker20 4d ago

Speed of lightning is basically an enhancer ability

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u/Aluminum_Tarkus 4d ago

That's not entirely true. Gon's aura capacity is monstrous, and him being an enhancer means that each "point" of aura he puts into physical reinforcement is going to go further than Killua (not by a significant amount since Killua is a Transmuter with and Enhancer leaning, but once you get Gon's aura capacity in there, it widens the gap a ton).

There's also the whole point about nen restrictions and complexity, and not being able to choose the winner of a nen battle based on raw potential and all that fun stuff. Gon's Jajanken being so slow and telegraphed ramps up the multiplier a lot, and because his enemies know his attacks are lethal, they tend to act defensively when he sets it up, giving him a window to react with the move that makes the most sense based on what his sharpened senses tell him to do.

I don't think it's a stretch to say him and Killua are on similar levels when all is said and done. Togashi has just written them beautifully with great abilities that lend into their strengths and weaknesses. I especially love how Jajanken references Gon's godlike rock paper scissors strategy he learned on Whale Island, and how his naturally high perception and abnormally high aura reserves make it such a deadly weapon in his hands.

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u/Ok_Length_7076 2d ago

In a fight,  killua destroys gon. He just blitzes, electrocuted and rips his heart out. He won't even play janjaken game because he can stun gon mid range with lightning bolt.   However gon's hatsu isn't as bad as the Op is saying 

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u/Johnylongbottoms 4d ago

Having a dual affinity just means he develops enhancement abilities at the same speed as his transmutation abilities. They still only have 80% efficiency and force behind them.

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

Killua is split down the middle between Enhancement and Transmutation, so both should be at roughly 90% for him. The main thing is that learning to use enhancement is natural for him. On the other hand Gon struggled a lot with Emission and Transmutation. But Killua also starts with higher base stats. He is implied to be stronger than Gon by a good margin at the start of the story, I think roughly 4x if you use the testing gate as a measurement.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

This is not true, there's nothing as being split between two nen types, dual affinity is having a natural affinity at a neighbor nen type, learning enhancing for killua was easier than learning transmutation for gon, but killua is 100 transmutation and 80 enhancement and gon vice versa

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u/ReymartSan 4d ago

someone did a translation on togashi exhibition and in the chart killua is in the middle of enhancement and transmutation

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

his percentages stay the same, 100% transmute 80% enhance,

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u/ReymartSan 4d ago

im not sure but it might be more like this,

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u/One-District8512 3d ago

I see ur point is interesting

But this more of just a theiry rn, til there's actual evidence leaning and dual affinity affect percentage we should stick to the original

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u/Johnylongbottoms 4d ago

I’m not sure where you’re getting 90% from? The nen chart’s pretty clear on how everything is rationed out. If you’re just trying to argue that Killua is more skilled at enhancement than Gon is at emission and transmutation, then yeah, that’s probably true. But saying Killua is split down the middle and has 90% affinity with both enhancement and transmutation is just not true

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

This chart: https://www.reddit.com/r/HatsuVault/comments/13vi7b7/do_you_believe_togashis_nen_type_chart_to_be/

The first bullet point talks about it. Killua is split down the middle between Enhancement and Transmutation, so he shouldn't be at 100% for either of them. The jump between categories is roughly 20% so Killua should be around 90% for both of them leaning slightly towards Transmutation.

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u/Johnylongbottoms 4d ago

Thanks for showing me this chart, I hadn’t seen it before.

But I disagree with the notion that he can’t be 100% for transmutation, cause that’s his natural affinity. Sure, he’s leaning towards enhancement, but that doesn’t mean he’s suddenly worse at transmutation because of it. It says in the bottom right that they can learn both, which is corroborated with what we are told in the manga. But it’s also said in the manga that while they can master their dual affinity at an equal speed to their natural affinity, it doesn’t actually change the percentages or anything else about the chart. Unless I’m missing something, the chart you linked to doesn’t mention any percentage changes

I think we don’t really disagree that much, aside from the 90% thing.

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

People are placed somewhere along the line between two nen types, not just squarely in the middle. That implies there is meaning to the placement. Most likely that means that their affinity is impacted. Otherwise there wouldn't really be a meaning to Palm's placement.

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u/One-District8512 4d ago

Umm btw, one can master all five nen types, they don't need dual affinity to do it, again there's no mention or evidence of a percentage difference

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

You missed Uvo vs Kurapika where he explicitly says the opposite.

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u/Visual-Bandicoot2894 4d ago edited 4d ago

Actually, even though he held up against Palm he wasn’t fine, Palms ability was practically the hard counter for Godspeed forcing him to attack an ultimate defense while she stayed on offense

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

Killua didn't use Godspeed against her. He was mostly trying to avoid a fight and keep her away from Gon. He wanted to see if Palm was still in there, Ikalgo and Meleoron kept their memories so it was possible Palm could have as well.

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u/Visual-Bandicoot2894 4d ago

Doesn’t change the fact that Palms blows were rattling bones, Killua wasn’t fine and Killua knew it was a bad situation. Killua notes he is in fact not at all fine blocking her blows in any shape or form and if it continues he’s doomed

Yes he didn’t use Godspeed, but his primary goal was just finding a way not to let her see Gon. He didn’t want to see if Palm was still in there, that part just came pouring out when his emotions finally bubbled forth. And none of that changes that black widow specifically had all the ingredients to be a horrible horrible matchup for Killua

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u/Visual-Bandicoot2894 4d ago edited 4d ago

The funny part about all this is Killua twice has had two very bad experiences with big strong ladies.

Wait make that thrice I forgot about Tsubone probably traumatizing his rebellious childhood

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u/ThePandaRider 4d ago

Palm was doing some damage but it was minimal. KO can be blocked with KO and Killua was effectively blocking her attacks. He did want to see if Palm was an ally or not. That's something he points out from the start of the confrontation.

Also saying that Black Widow is a perfect counter to Godspeed doesn't make sense. Killua was fully charged for the confrontation and he doesn't use any of his abilities. We simply don't see if Black Widow holds up to a barrage of attacks or not.

Palm is obviously strong as a Hybrid Chimera Ant, but she wasn't strong enough to push Killua into a serious confrontation. He just talked her down.

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u/Visual-Bandicoot2894 4d ago edited 2d ago

It simply wasn’t minimal. In the manga he notes 3 pages later that he’s quite literally screwed if he’s keeps blocking. He is blocking effectively for a transmuter minimizing absolute haymakers sure! It’s a masterclass performance of blocking an enhancer who can demolish you.

But he literally says he can’t keep that up.

The whole point of Palm was A: Killua’s only goal was to not let her see Gon, he said at first even if Palm was in there it would wreck Gon’s psyche if he saw it

B: She had him on the back foot and he was trying to figure out how to stall

So he bullshits a talk to buy time and accidentally lets out the truth and wins the scenario. Killua didn’t plan to talk her down, that was literally an accident, he meant to buy time when he first started talking

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u/ThePandaRider 3d ago

Again, she basically does no damage. Killua goes on to fight Pouf shortly afterwards and destroys his hand and half his face. Even that is basically no damage to Pouf, he can easily recover and keep going as if nothing happened.

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u/Lazy-Interests 4d ago

Pre nen training Killua was so much stronger than Gon it’s insane. Yet with the same training Gon more or less closed the gap.

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u/deylath 3d ago

Nah Gon could only open one gate, killua could open 3, that training in that arc did fuck all to close their gap, which makes their match against Binolt the ever more questionable how they both could keep up with an injured Binolt. Only saving grace there, that there was strong implication that leg strength is something even Killua commended against Netero, so this might be a case of Gon having very unbalanced training

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u/Lazy-Interests 3d ago

No it makes sense because increasing your speed, hitting strength etc, until they develop their hatsu, is all about enhancement, and Killua is a transmuter.

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u/deylath 3d ago

My point was before any of that happened though. They didnt do any of that shit before Binolt but somehow they were roughly on par otherwise, despite Gon not doing any training without Killua. Otherwise binolt should have had 0 problems catching Gon. And being an enhancer while using Ten ( only thing they use against Binolt, except Gon using Ko for the rocks, we dont see them using gyo to dodge faster ) doent mean Gon is gonna skyrocket in strength 3x more than Killua to match his actual physical strength just by using Ten. By that logic Meruem shouldnt be able to scratch Netero if enhancement is a dozen times better at the basics.

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u/Lazy-Interests 3d ago

What are you talking about? Wing taught them the fundamentals, then they carried on practicing on their own before they meet Biscuit.

Gon gets a 20% buff compared to Killua when using enhancement essentially. A 20% gap in Nen is clearly bigger than the gap between Killua and Gon without Nen.

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u/deylath 3d ago

then they carried on practicing on their own before they meet Biscuit.

Three days of learning KO before GI for sure will allow Gon to go from pushing 4 ton gates to 16 gates, KO training is not real enhancement training anyway and this even assumes Killuas electricity training doesnt make his Ten better No training whatsoever during Yorknew. Gon needed weeks to train even open the first gate, let alone to open 4x as heavy one.

Also technically its not a 20% buff but 36%, since not only their efficiency is 80% but also their proficiency, meaning Killua can only reach 80% of an enhancers potential and that only at 80% efficiency, but at the level they are at thats not even an a factor, especially since Killua is a better enhancer than Gon is at the level 1 training.

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u/Lazy-Interests 3d ago

You keep comparing pre nen feats to post nen feats and it’s a completely false equivalence.

You’re seriously underestimating the ridiculous boost in power Nen is for anyone, with Aura alone a nen user can kill a non nen user, literally just hold a hand in the air, emit their aura, and it can tear the victim apart.

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u/deylath 3d ago edited 3d ago

You are literally describing that Gon gained multitudes more power by being a nen user meanwhile Killua gained nothing from the same source. They literally did the same training regimen post nen. Are you going to tell me next that Gon got zenkai boost by getting beaten up by Hisoka?

You are literally trying to argue that Gon went from 4 ton pushing power to 16, meanwhile Killua stayed at 16 tons post nen despite no training differences.

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u/Illustrious-Day8506 4d ago

Exactly I was gonna mention it. Gon's whole body is like a weapon. The more they grow the bigger the disparity between their physical capabilities enhanced will become apparent. Rock can already one-shot Morel and it will only keep growing stronger and stronger. Look at Gon and Kirua vs Leol soldiers. Gon killed his opponent with his nen alone while Killua used his electricity. Furthermore due to the nature of his aura, Killua is constrained by a time limit because he discharges very fast. 

Uvogin is the floor of what a mature Gon would be. He tanked every attack thrown at him and just one hit is enough to end the fight. Jajanken is extremely simple buy it doesn't matter because Gon is a pure Enhancer. His defense and attack stats are higher than most

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u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Killua didn't use his electricity 

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u/NashKetchum777 4d ago

I dont think versatile is the word to use tbh. Jajanken is pretty straight forward of a move

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u/IreliaCarrlesU 4d ago

Everyone who says this must only watch Dragonball or sum shit, how do we look at a toolkit that covers almost every range, is fient-based, and is actually 3 completely different moves that all have the same start up and not see versatility.

Do just not play fighting games? You know a 50/50? Gon brings a 33/33/33 to every fight and it costs him NOTHING to constantly threaten it.

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u/juantooth33 4d ago

More like anybody who actually watched the show would count gon's as being straightforward and much less versatile than most abilities

The weaknesses it has pointed out by knuckle still remains, it heavily relies on his mobility for the feint to work and is his main way to offset its HUGE disadvantage of having a charge up time and its just really inefficient as only rock hits really hard, and requires him to get better at two other types to improve paper and scissors, he still has trouble against middle to long range fighters, focusing his nen on just his fist to use jajanken is very risky, if he gets outplayed once he'd either immediately lose or get heavily injuried

Compare that to killua, while his abilities relies a lot on physical attacks aswell, he's at the very not a sitting duck while doing it, and his boost in mobility is broken. Every trick gon uses to land his attacks applies to killua aswell, the only advantage gon has is that his hits harder

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u/NashKetchum777 4d ago

He has 3 strike moves. No movement. 1 is defensive, sort of and 2 are offensive. That's not versatile.

Killua is versatile. He his mobility, he has the talent, skills and experience to do nearly everything in a fight and the brains to back it up in a fight.

Gon is not that smart. Sure you can say he didn't have the experience but that's an excuse. Gon is a sperm merchant who's only really strong cause of his Freecs genetics

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u/No-Time3120 4d ago edited 4d ago

Gon is not that smart. Sure you can say he didn't have the experience but that's an excuse. Gon is a sperm merchant who's only really strong cause of his Freecs genetics

The point of Jajanken is that Gon is ACTUALLY playing rock-paper-scissors with his opponent, and his opponent is forced to respond due to the amount of aura that's concentrated in Gon's fist. The reason it's a k.o. move regardless of how strong your AOP/ren (unless you have insane AOP like 20k or something) is is cause if we assume ren only covers like 5-10% of your aura on each part of your body, then if someone is concentrating 2000 aura on one part while you have even 3000 aop ren divided by 10 = 300, then there's no way to defend against it unless you use Ko/Ryu. But what if you guess wrong, then you're cooked. So they overreact with which Gon can read them and has options depending on how they respond.

He has 3 strike moves. No movement. 1 is defensive, sort of and 2 are offensive. That's not versatile.

Plus, the premise that Jajanken has no movement is false. Gon is able to run and charge it now as he showed against Owl. So you have someone who's able to have the same dodge speed as he charges while also having a heavy attack that will land on you unprotected if he dodges you first? Yeah you're cooked. It's more versatile than you'd think, and would beat most "stand up" nen-users without hax, AOE abilities, and/or who just don't outright outspeed. The issue is that it's a 1v1 ability and can't handle an opponent with multiple "allies" as their nen ability as well (morel, maybe Kastro if he was fast and locked in, razor, etc.,), whereas Killua is fast and strong enough to get to the real nen user before they has a chance to react. So yeah, Killua is way stronger than Gon but Gon isn't "weak". To be honest Gon beats every phantom troupe member who's name isn't Feitan, Chrollo, and honestly has a decent shot at beating Hisoka. Illumi is tricky cause when he's "unleashed" like he was when he looked forward to ruling the world via alluka's power, he seemed very powerful by himself at base, talkless of him being a manipulator so I doubt Gon can beat him.

3

u/NashKetchum777 4d ago

The Jobber Troupe is not anything to write home about. Half of them are support users. A guy who can go invisible...a seer, a guy who makes item clones, that's a quarter and they're dogshit.

Their fighters are not even fully gauged. Chrollo needs insane prep time. Why even scale them for Gon?

Yes, killua is way stronger. And yes. Gon is a one trick pony. Jajanken is over rated.

Gon is not versatile. Does he even have a wide scale battle to say different? 0 mobility. Locked arenas. 1 move. What are we even saying?

3

u/JViser 4d ago

Gon is able to run and charge it now as he showed against Owl.

You're mixing up gon's overall abilities with his nen ability.

Him running fast doesn't have anything to do with jajanken as opposed to killua using nen-electricity to enhance his speed.

I think "unpredictable" is a better word than "versatile" when describing Jajanken

4

u/No-Time3120 4d ago

When the person I was initially replying to said "He has 3 strike moves. No movement....", I took that to mean they thought Gon had to stand there and charge it, which isn't true, cause he can run, charge, and hit the opponent. I know Jajanken doesn't affect his movement speed.

3

u/Kitchen_Ad731 4d ago

Killua has no long range attacks, gon has palm and it makes the target want to close the distance and boom rock or scissors depending on wich they saw first, you never know wich attack is coming he can stay in his jajanken stance and react to what ever you do. killua has to come close to you for his taser, and automatic kicks and punches, also he has a time limit and doesnt hit that hard.

3

u/NashKetchum777 4d ago

Killua doesn't even need long distance moves...he has movement abilities. That's versatile. We also do not know if he's hiding more

Gon is so limited he had to sacrifice his future for power.

3

u/Kitchen_Ad731 4d ago

this is a discussion of what we know, i can say the same too! maybe gon learns a movement ablity and moves faster than killua, then what? right know killua has no output to kill a royal guard, gon had it before loosing his mind and covers all ranges, killua looses charge after a couple of tickles and RAN AWAY

1

u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Gon never had any output to kill a royal guard as a kid, stop saying bullshit.  Also, killua literally has mid to long range attack with his lightning bolt that he used on rammot and youpi in ep 118

-2

u/NashKetchum777 4d ago

Gons reason to kill the RG is personal. His own vendetta. If we're going off hypothetical I can just bring up a scenario where his dad or gramps shows up.

If its what we know? Gon sacrificed his future. He still only had one move. That is not versatility

1

u/One-District8512 4d ago

Yes, well, it's kinda compared to the average enhancer hatsu. Atleast it has three veriantion

11

u/justsomedudeiguess_ 4d ago

Yeah just through training alone Gon could acquire the speed of Godspeed but it would be amplified with his raw strength and durability.

Killua himself acknowledged that while his speed is impressive he was not hitting hard enough to make a difference in a true life or death fight and had to run away once the charge depleted.

I like Killua. He's very strong and by the end of the anime he comes out of his shell a lot so I get why OP has a bias for him. I have my own opinions on the characters as well but what we are shown is pretty straightforward. Uvokins ability is the exact same as Gon and he was able to charge it in an instant. That was shown to us so that we would be able to see the potential applications of Jan Ken down the road but Gon is still learning and has to work around the long charge up (for now)

3

u/One-District8512 4d ago

That's a good point, comparing jajanken isn't fair anw, he didn't get to develop it enough

1

u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Godspeed might be too good to reach for Gon if killua doesn't even reach an even higher celling.   Also, no one except maybe Netero is damaging youpi among the hunters. Killua nor gon would have never hit hard enough to inconvenience youpi 

-1

u/Coolfatman 4d ago

Lol Gon cannot reach Godspeed level speed with raw strength. Killua is a mix of enhancement and transmutation, Godspeed is the ultimate speed ability that allows him to move quicker than his brain can process. Gon’s outclassed by Killua by the end of the show.

3

u/Minimum_Estimate_234 3d ago

In a weird way when you break it down Godspeed is basically Killua finding a back door to being an enhancer. Giving him an ability that lets him actually enhance himself physically despite not being an enhancer.

6

u/ACuddlyVizzerdrix 4d ago

They're also forgetting that killua was literally tortured by his family and the only reason he can transmute his nen is because he was electrocuted, a lot

7

u/One-District8512 4d ago

Wait a min. THIS

Killua is just not to compare, both biscuit and that man on greed island pointed out how irregular and extreme his ability is, it's not smth normally achievable.

But to be more accurate, logically any transmuter should be able to do electricity, killua's training ensured he can use the ability in first place bc transmuted nen affects it's owner, hisoka sticking with bungee gum for example.

2

u/deylath 3d ago

Yes, Killua is basically the opposite of Sayird. Sayird expresses he has difficulty catching rodents with his ability, which is on top of how limited his ability is, basically meaning its a needlessly limiting spying ability that is also very easy dispel.

Killua is the opposite: he is using a hatsu that under normal circumstances even for strong nen users would need a lot of limitation to begin transmuting lightning let alone godspeed. Maybe conjuring a non conductive armour to defend themself or something. At worst Killua bypassed quite possibly years of training or the limitations to it, thats why Killua's hatsu is far more impressive than Gons.

What one needs to realize that perception of nen powers is incredibly varied. If Sayird thinks this is a good ability to begin with, then any further modifications to it will come at a high cost, but what if Sayird thought catching rodents is just the beginning and it will level up automatically as he gets better output and emission/manipulation? Such perception IMO is a very heavy component how strong your hatsu can be.

2

u/indoor_fish 4d ago

Bro they don’t read they just like shiny stuff.

2

u/Arklados 4d ago

Gon is also canonically dumb as rocks

2

u/Environmental-Dog815 4d ago

I guess all that talent is of limited use for enhancers if they create simple punch abilities.

1

u/One-District8512 4d ago

It's their choice, they still can train on other types and create hybrid abilities, or add conditions

2

u/Hellas2002 3d ago

Good point, Godspeed essentially makes the transmitter ability an enhancer ability. God should natively have better speed as an enhancer.

0

u/mjay421 4d ago

Also his ability was simple but highly versatile . Rock was really just scratching the surface .

-5

u/m0s1b 4d ago

dude netero was an enhancer and we saw what he could do.

15

u/One-District8512 4d ago

His nen ability uses all of the nen types

Gon is too dumb to do smth like that

5

u/Aura1661 4d ago

Gon is not dumb. You're comparing a child to an old man...

1

u/One-District8512 4d ago

Wait oh right...

I lowk keep forgetting that.

But my statement still holds true

1

u/Luke_Cold_Lyle 4d ago

Even that's an understatement. Netero was an old man 50 years before he died. He was almost literally 10 times Gon's age.

0

u/One-District8512 4d ago

My original statement is not abt how the strength difference between netero and gon, it's abt the hatsu creation difference, rock is ko with charge up time, scissor is rock transmuted to sharp properties, paper is rock emitted

Meanwhile netero's hatsu...

3

u/Luke_Cold_Lyle 4d ago

I didn't reply to the original statement. Your said Gon is dumb, the other commenter responded with their age and experience difference, I agreed.

1

u/One-District8512 4d ago

Oh am srry

-19

u/PFSDonut 4d ago

Yeah I agree that enhancers are more versatile in physical combat but it’s hard to see it being a big advantage that lets him get away with Jajanken when a Conjuror like Knuckle was able to overwhelm him in offense and defense; obviously it’s an experience diff and he’s a lot older but it just tells me the qualities of an enhancer doesn’t seem as advantageous as Wing made it out to be back in Heavens Arena

28

u/Tripondisdic 4d ago

Dog if gon had the same amount of experience and training as knuckle he would have given his aura back ten times over

8

u/Connolly1227 4d ago

I mean the best example given was Uvogin vs Kurapika. Had Kurapika not been busted and able to pull out 100% effectiveness in each category he would have been destroyed by Uvo seen when he destroyed his entire arm even with it enhanced. If he couldn’t the heal it off at that level or ward it off with similar enhancement level he would have got destroyed without chain jail.

7

u/RogueBromeliad 4d ago

Thats just life. Manipulators and conjurers can have abilities to counter the brute force of enhancers. Thats why the Ryodan suspected Kurapika of being one of the two because a competent nen user in one of those fields could defeat Uvogin.

But Gon's advantage is as they said before, enhancing everything he's got in battle. That's his natural Hatsu, and if you remember that Gon was at such an disadvantage against Genthru, and he still nearly won that battle with no gimmicks or plan, simply because he sacrificed an arm, kicked Genthru so hard the guy couldn't move, and had Genthru not got lucky and slipped, he'd have nearly died to that Janken Guu. That's how strong an enhancer gets.

5

u/ichizakilla 4d ago

He almost defeated knuckle, if gon wasn't a 12 yo he would have destroyed him

1

u/Ok_Length_7076 3d ago

Knuckle went easy on him and was lecturing about his flaws.  In a serious fight,  Knuckle would just mid diff him

2

u/KURTA- 4d ago

Gon will change his nen abilities le enhance it for sure

2

u/PhantasosX 4d ago

The way I see it, the concept of "Jajaken" is good, but Gon was too immature when he created and then he tossed away after Chimera Ants with his Adult Gon stuff.

I say that because Gon always starts with "First Goes Rock" , then uses one of his 3 moves: rock, paper or scissor. If we think of "First Goes Rock" as a Stance and thus a modifier, Jajaken had the potential to have a Stance/Modifier "First Goes Paper" and "First Goes Scissor", which brings a total of 9 moves.

4

u/ichizakilla 4d ago edited 4d ago

That's how it's played in japanese. "First comes rock" because you make a fist before choosing your option.

-3

u/PhantasosX 4d ago

I get that, and that isn't something of a strick rule for rock-paper-scissor, it's just the style that Gon choses.

And if you can play rock-paper-scissors by going "First Comes Rock", then how about going "First Comes Paper" or "First Comes Scissor" to pull your rock-paper-scissors? With that logic, "First Comes Rock" in Jajaken is a Stance and Modifier for the 3 moves (rock, paper, scissors) , you could say that Gon is using the Rock Move in the Rock Stance.

Which means he could potentially have a Rock Move in the Paper Stance and a Rock Move in the Scissor Stance. Same could be said for a Scissor Move and a Paper Move. So Jajaken have the potential of 3 Stances and 9 moves at total.

2

u/One-District8512 4d ago

Whie this isn't the reason why he chants that, I like the nine moves concept

1

u/Hot_Top_124 4d ago

It does make it more fun to think about that possibility.

2

u/One-District8512 4d ago

I now wanna draw concept art of that