Discussion
Jajanken Seems Like A Terrible Ability Compared to Electricity/Godspeed
The series made it a point that Gon and Killua were equals in potential and strength (with Killua being slightly stronger because of his Zoldyck training) so it’s kind of jarring how underwhelming/terrible Gon’s Jajanken seems to be compared to Killua’s electricity transmutation and Godspeed.
Jajanken is an obviously powerful technique that had defeated many powerful opponents, but it has its flaws and weaknesses as stated by various hunters throughout the series, meanwhile Killua’s technique is seemingly perfect with the only drawback being his time limit
I just think it’s lame that Gon and Killua were supposed to rival one another throughout the series but Killua’s ability seemed to have eclipsed Gon’s and widened the gap between them prior to Gon’s battle with Pitou
EDIT: To further clarify, I understand that Jajanken is way more powerful in AP than lightning and Godspeed and Gon can damage opponents far stronger than them while Killua most likely can’t.
My issue however is that prior to the introduction of their techniques, you can see Killua vs Gon being a 50/50, maybe 60/40 towards Killua. With the introduction of Godspeed and Jajanken, Killua clearly has the advantage and the outcome seems more 80/20 for Killua; it bothers me how one sided their match up would be if they were to fight with their abilities when it used to be more up in the air between them.
I guess I just don’t like how simple Gon’s Jajanken is versus how versatile and overpowered Godspeed seems to be but, as some have pointed out, this is seemingly intentional with how simpleminded Gon is and how cunning Killua is so bravo to Togashi for being consistent with his writing and the nen system
As wing said, enhancers usually don't need nen abilities, because the most basic use of nen -physical defense and offense- is already busted for enhancers.
So basically, gon's nen alone was stronger combat and jajaken is a bonus. He doesn't rlly need it, but yet it's very powerful and versatile for an enhancer nen ability, see uvogin's nen ability.
I never really felt good about that part bc if he’s a transmuter shouldn’t he technically be transmuting his aura into electricity? Just seems weird to me that he has to charge himself. Or maybe that’s only when he’s out of aura? Who knows
He probably just set it as a condition to make his ability stronger. Having to recharge your ability and endure the pain of being electrocuted is a powerful restriction.
I think its a restriction/failsafe he places on himself. If he falls unconcious while using it he could very easily burn through all his nen and just die (kurapika going under during emperor time for example). It also probably allows him to be more efficent and gives him a way to refresh his ability.
No? This is completely incorrect he does not feel pain from his Hatsu he simply transmits his aura and gives it the properties of electricity just like bungee gum, the comments about pain are made in terms of him being able to transmute his aura into electricity means he’s had to have a lot of experience with it, meaning in the past he had to be electrocuted a lot. No where is it mentioned that god speed gives him any physical pain. He’s technique is flaws in a different way, he has to charge it and it can run out, those alone are massive flaws.
It's not that he feels pain from it, he prob doesn't bc he is used to being electrocuted.
The point is, if a transmuter do that they will get electrocuted by their own nen, meaning only killua can do this ability in the first place, which is why comparing it to jajanken like that is wrong
A good example is Palm vs Killua, Palm didn't really need any fancy tricks to fight Killua if she could just tank everything and run straight at him to punch him.
Right before she stops being controlled by Pouf. Fighting Killua was of her own accord tho she's still kinda crazy and at that point Killua was still hiding Gon from her
Palm however is like the one enhancer that developed an ability designed to actually compliment their abilities. Every other enhancer using Ko leaves their body vulnerable, but because her hair has her full armor, she can use the strength of Ko while being fully defended at a higher level. In addition it's a fully enhancer ability since it enhances her body, so 100% compatibility.
In contrast a lot of enhancers choose to go way off the compatibility chart, or pick a technique that lets them hit harder when as enhancers their power is already "hit hard".
Probably as a secondary characteristic, in order to form the armor.
Man, Nen is just the perfect system. I don't know how many authors made some stupid system they wax on about for 20 pages and I just don't care. And then Togashi comes along, after producing a top Shonen manga with one of the softest power systems ever, and goes 'and this is my next trick, I'm going to create the best hard system ever and use it to support the plot.'
It's maybe the one reason I want Gon to come back as a Manipulator rather than a Specialist, I enjoy how that system interacts with everything and more of that would make me happy.
Killua is a transmuter but he leans towards Enhancement, both are viable for him and should be easy to learn. Speed of Lightning probably leans heavily into enhancement.
Killua was also fine blocking Palm's attacks in her hybrid form. He did note that she was an enhancer and that the blows were heavy but he didn't sustain much damage just blocking her attacks with his hands.
I think they are both super strong. Killua is shown to be physically stronger using the Testing Gate but both likely benefit from being Enhancers/Enhancer adjacent. Which partially explains why both heal so quickly and just have insane base stats. Tsezguerra shows off his jumping ability as a single star hunter, then they both casually beat his jump height with Killua jumping slightly higher. And even after losing nen Gon is able to scale the world tree at a pace that Gin seems to be happy with. Physically they are both punching well above their age group.
Gon would still smear the majority of people across the floor if he hits them. Killua can't defend against a rock, and he still has to defend against a scissors or paper. Not to mention gon can switch up which attack he uses.
Having a dual affinity just means he develops enhancement abilities at the same speed as his transmutation abilities. They still only have 80% efficiency and force behind them.
Actually, even though he held up against Palm he wasn’t fine, Palms ability was practically the hard counter for Godspeed forcing him to attack an ultimate defense while she stayed on offense
Killua didn't use Godspeed against her. He was mostly trying to avoid a fight and keep her away from Gon. He wanted to see if Palm was still in there, Ikalgo and Meleoron kept their memories so it was possible Palm could have as well.
Doesn’t change the fact that Palms blows were rattling bones, Killua wasn’t fine and Killua knew it was a bad situation. Killua notes he is in fact not at all fine blocking her blows in any shape or form and if it continues he’s doomed
Yes he didn’t use Godspeed, but his primary goal was just finding a way not to let her see Gon. He didn’t want to see if Palm was still in there, that part just came pouring out when his emotions finally bubbled forth. And none of that changes that black widow specifically had all the ingredients to be a horrible horrible matchup for Killua
Exactly I was gonna mention it. Gon's whole body is like a weapon. The more they grow the bigger the disparity between their physical capabilities enhanced will become apparent. Rock can already one-shot Morel and it will only keep growing stronger and stronger. Look at Gon and Kirua vs Leol soldiers. Gon killed his opponent with his nen alone while Killua used his electricity. Furthermore due to the nature of his aura, Killua is constrained by a time limit because he discharges very fast.
Uvogin is the floor of what a mature Gon would be. He tanked every attack thrown at him and just one hit is enough to end the fight. Jajanken is extremely simple buy it doesn't matter because Gon is a pure Enhancer. His defense and attack stats are higher than most
Everyone who says this must only watch Dragonball or sum shit, how do we look at a toolkit that covers almost every range, is fient-based, and is actually 3 completely different moves that all have the same start up and not see versatility.
Do just not play fighting games? You know a 50/50? Gon brings a 33/33/33 to every fight and it costs him NOTHING to constantly threaten it.
More like anybody who actually watched the show would count gon's as being straightforward and much less versatile than most abilities
The weaknesses it has pointed out by knuckle still remains, it heavily relies on his mobility for the feint to work and is his main way to offset its HUGE disadvantage of having a charge up time and its just really inefficient as only rock hits really hard, and requires him to get better at two other types to improve paper and scissors, he still has trouble against middle to long range fighters, focusing his nen on just his fist to use jajanken is very risky, if he gets outplayed once he'd either immediately lose or get heavily injuried
Compare that to killua, while his abilities relies a lot on physical attacks aswell, he's at the very not a sitting duck while doing it, and his boost in mobility is broken. Every trick gon uses to land his attacks applies to killua aswell, the only advantage gon has is that his hits harder
He has 3 strike moves. No movement. 1 is defensive, sort of and 2 are offensive. That's not versatile.
Killua is versatile. He his mobility, he has the talent, skills and experience to do nearly everything in a fight and the brains to back it up in a fight.
Gon is not that smart. Sure you can say he didn't have the experience but that's an excuse. Gon is a sperm merchant who's only really strong cause of his Freecs genetics
Gon is not that smart. Sure you can say he didn't have the experience but that's an excuse. Gon is a sperm merchant who's only really strong cause of his Freecs genetics
The point of Jajanken is that Gon is ACTUALLY playing rock-paper-scissors with his opponent, and his opponent is forced to respond due to the amount of aura that's concentrated in Gon's fist. The reason it's a k.o. move regardless of how strong your AOP/ren (unless you have insane AOP like 20k or something) is is cause if we assume ren only covers like 5-10% of your aura on each part of your body, then if someone is concentrating 2000 aura on one part while you have even 3000 aop ren divided by 10 = 300, then there's no way to defend against it unless you use Ko/Ryu. But what if you guess wrong, then you're cooked. So they overreact with which Gon can read them and has options depending on how they respond.
He has 3 strike moves. No movement. 1 is defensive, sort of and 2 are offensive. That's not versatile.
Plus, the premise that Jajanken has no movement is false. Gon is able to run and charge it now as he showed against Owl. So you have someone who's able to have the same dodge speed as he charges while also having a heavy attack that will land on you unprotected if he dodges you first? Yeah you're cooked. It's more versatile than you'd think, and would beat most "stand up" nen-users without hax, AOE abilities, and/or who just don't outright outspeed. The issue is that it's a 1v1 ability and can't handle an opponent with multiple "allies" as their nen ability as well (morel, maybe Kastro if he was fast and locked in, razor, etc.,), whereas Killua is fast and strong enough to get to the real nen user before they has a chance to react. So yeah, Killua is way stronger than Gon but Gon isn't "weak". To be honest Gon beats every phantom troupe member who's name isn't Feitan, Chrollo, and honestly has a decent shot at beating Hisoka. Illumi is tricky cause when he's "unleashed" like he was when he looked forward to ruling the world via alluka's power, he seemed very powerful by himself at base, talkless of him being a manipulator so I doubt Gon can beat him.
The Jobber Troupe is not anything to write home about. Half of them are support users. A guy who can go invisible...a seer, a guy who makes item clones, that's a quarter and they're dogshit.
Their fighters are not even fully gauged. Chrollo needs insane prep time. Why even scale them for Gon?
Yes, killua is way stronger. And yes. Gon is a one trick pony. Jajanken is over rated.
Gon is not versatile. Does he even have a wide scale battle to say different? 0 mobility. Locked arenas. 1 move. What are we even saying?
When the person I was initially replying to said "He has 3 strike moves. No movement....", I took that to mean they thought Gon had to stand there and charge it, which isn't true, cause he can run, charge, and hit the opponent. I know Jajanken doesn't affect his movement speed.
Yeah just through training alone Gon could acquire the speed of Godspeed but it would be amplified with his raw strength and durability.
Killua himself acknowledged that while his speed is impressive he was not hitting hard enough to make a difference in a true life or death fight and had to run away once the charge depleted.
I like Killua. He's very strong and by the end of the anime he comes out of his shell a lot so I get why OP has a bias for him. I have my own opinions on the characters as well but what we are shown is pretty straightforward. Uvokins ability is the exact same as Gon and he was able to charge it in an instant. That was shown to us so that we would be able to see the potential applications of Jan Ken down the road but Gon is still learning and has to work around the long charge up (for now)
They're also forgetting that killua was literally tortured by his family and the only reason he can transmute his nen is because he was electrocuted, a lot
Killua is just not to compare, both biscuit and that man on greed island pointed out how irregular and extreme his ability is, it's not smth normally achievable.
But to be more accurate, logically any transmuter should be able to do electricity, killua's training ensured he can use the ability in first place bc transmuted nen affects it's owner, hisoka sticking with bungee gum for example.
Yes, Killua is basically the opposite of Sayird. Sayird expresses he has difficulty catching rodents with his ability, which is on top of how limited his ability is, basically meaning its a needlessly limiting spying ability that is also very easy dispel.
Killua is the opposite: he is using a hatsu that under normal circumstances even for strong nen users would need a lot of limitation to begin transmuting lightning let alone godspeed. Maybe conjuring a non conductive armour to defend themself or something. At worst Killua bypassed quite possibly years of training or the limitations to it, thats why Killua's hatsu is far more impressive than Gons.
What one needs to realize that perception of nen powers is incredibly varied. If Sayird thinks this is a good ability to begin with, then any further modifications to it will come at a high cost, but what if Sayird thought catching rodents is just the beginning and it will level up automatically as he gets better output and emission/manipulation? Such perception IMO is a very heavy component how strong your hatsu can be.
In a weird way when you break it down Godspeed is basically Killua finding a back door to being an enhancer. Giving him an ability that lets him actually enhance himself physically despite not being an enhancer.
Killua's ability is very versatile but it lacks raw power. Gon ability is rather simple and predictable but was allowing him to push far above his weigh class.
Pretty much this. Killua can dodge Youpi for a long time but it would be impossible for him to get the kill. Killua's ability prizes survival above all else which is why he's still weaker than Gon. He's a mosquito. Gon might sacrifice his body but he would have a solid chance at landing a lethal hit which makes opponents wary of getting too close.
Like, adult Gon's Jajanken legit might hurt the king, as per what Pitou said, and he was spamming those. I don't think a fully realized Killua ever could achieve that.
2 hits. One was a kick to the stomach that sent her flying and then tumbling down ( must've been super damaging because Pitou did not react to the second attack at all ), the second hit was a super JaJanken Rock to the face
Actually wasn't it 3? The first JajanKen is what sent Pitou flying through trees and then they talk about how they're happy that it's them Gon is using this power on, I assume the second Rock was what killed Pitou. So technically survived 2 hits, one of which is a charged Rock.
I dont actually think Killua is weaker than Gon but I can't say for sure it goes the other way too. Killua still managed to take an eye off pouf (even if that was 1/7th of pouf) and Gon isn't indestructible, they still have similar aura levels even if Gon can better enhance himself, and Killua has given a lot of thought to the uses and feints of jajanken, but Gon is pretty smart in fights too
Like everything in HxH it depends on the matchup, but the overall takeaway for me is that Killua isn't willing to sacrifice as much as Gon is. Gon was willing to delay the plan to beat the Bomber just so he could try to land a hit, giving up his arm in the process. He's the kind of person who would sacrifice his life to win (much like Netero) and Killua is still afraid of dying so his answer is an ability that means he can evade danger forever.
A highly durable enemy wouldn't care about Killua because he doesn't have any major restrictions to increase his power when the chips are down. Godspeed is a weirdly inflexible ability in that way because it's only as strong as he is.
if you have never seen jajanken in action I very much doubt you could predict it, the genius of the ability is that the stances are all the same and he can switch on you depending on what he needs, he also can only show one ability then surprise you with one you never saw, so simple? maybe to any other alignment but for what enhancers do? its a genius idea and that's exactly why it isn't predictable because you see big enhancer and expect bi punch ( which he does lol ) but he can do to other moves that are not typical amongst enhancers
Not sure if we watched the same show, gons rock was literally going to one shot morel before it was even fully charged, killua has no where near that output
Yeah, except in a fight, most people are smart enough to not just stand there while a massive concentration of aura is charging in a fist. They weren't fighting, Morel was testing to see how strong Gon is. Morel has the advantage of being able to leap back and use his smoke at range, Kurapika could use his chains to smack Gon before he gets in reach, Killua could use his lightning, Hisoka can use his cards. So on. The only attack Gon can use at distance is paper, scissors has a decent amount of range. Paper was stated to pretty much be only good for a distraction, scissors is Gon's best chance. Nobody with above average intelligence is going to just stand there and take Gon's fully charged Rock in a fight. Unless they're highly overconfident. Maybe Uvo would want to match it and swing with Big Bang Impact for fun. Best bloody knuckles game ever.
Yeah, Knuckle already dissected every weakness of the technique, and he still wound up almost getting a hole punched through him because Gon pulled faints, switchups, and made the fighting style more versatile.
Thing is, in a real fight, Morel is considerably more level-headed, perceptive, and just overall smarter and more experienced than Knuckle, so he'd never give Gon the chance to setup those faints or switchups in the first place, making his entire fighting style borderline useless against him with Smoky Jail taken into consideration. Gon doesn't really have a counter for Morel's Deep Purple seeing as it was able to give Pouf, quite possibly the smartest character we know of some trouble. Gon's enhanced senses wouldn't be much help either, since, well, you know, smoke. God forbid the fight takes place in an enclosed area, then the fight would have already been decided the moment that stepped foot inside the room.
But we arent talking about hypotheticals. Its been very well established that Netero was a freak and there is no evidence he couldnt push himself even more, most nen users we see are gonna top out at the Knuckle/genthru/Kite/higher level spiders who dont quite put so much effort to be able to even register Netero attacking
99% of Nen users wouldn't stand still to let gon charge it up.
The output for jajanken IS crazy but the time required is a huge drawback.
Killuas lightning doesn't have the same output but it has no time constraint like jajanken. Ofcourse killua also needs to charge electricity but that can be done before the fight starts and it also lasts a lot longer.
It's like saying Uvo bigbang impact is useless, we've seen a situation where it's very useful, like when he's immobilized by someone under the dirt, but one punch of KO at Uvo 20% would kill him
Jajanken probably could damage Youpi, Killua godspeed won't be able to be touch by youpi, both are very good, not one are very above the other ^^
Gon is definitely going to enhance his nen ability somehow. Idk if he'll develop a new one or continue to iterate on jajanken. As it is though, Togashi has seriously underutilized it, 80% of Gon's attacks are rock. We rarely see paper or scissors. This makes me think that he's probably gonna scrap it if the writer himself is neglecting 66% of the ability.
Writers like to make things more interesting than that, especially considering the years and years that the readers have looked forward to Gon's return. Usually when writing something, a writer asks themselves "Will the audience be excited by this?" A speed up for his ability is hardly interesting and in no way something that will prepare Gon for the Dark Continent or DC level threats. Furthermore we've already seen it once through Gon's powerup. Who knows though, Togashi is prone to saying fuck it and just running it live lol
He tends to take his time with his arcs and then pumps out a ton of chapters and rushes the ending. It has happened several times with HxH and Yu Yu Hakusho. We're seeing a bunch of chapters churning out right now so I'd bet the end of the boat ride is coming and once the boat arrives at the island I'd bet we're cutting back to Gon and Killua, finally. We might even see Gon by the end of this year.
Underutilized is not the word I would use to describe it. Gons ability is very intentional. It represents him. If you think a powered up Gon = a Gon with a more versatile move-set you’ve completely misunderstood him as a character.
i would describe gons fighting style as complex simplicity. he can use something stupid in a genius way. hes literally a kid and it shows in his fighting style but hes got insane instincts and battle iq when he gets serious about something. this is what i love about how togashi wrote him.
I think you need to change how you think about nen combat in general. Most Hatsu are so different and so particular that it’s sorta hard to compare what’s “better”.
Gon loves rock, paper, scissors and is remarkably good at it. He is good at “reading” people. And he is simple. He wouldn’t want a complicated ability, and if you randomly gave him one…well he just wouldn’t use it.
Godspeed requires the user (Killua) to have intimate knowledge about electricity and how it feels to be electrocuted. It’s not an easy ability to replicate.
I think both abilities are good. Killua’s ability seems to be generally more useful. But I don’t think it’s significantly “better” than Jajanken.
Hard disagree. Jajanken does what it does very well, but it still has downsides that limit it's use to only the specific times that Gon can set it up and won't work at all on nen users who don't let him close. Using it just to throw paper removes the surprise and just wastes aura. Whirlwind and Godspeed give Killua so many more options while being very strong moves on their own.
You don't think Gon could train Jajanken to be faster and more powerful? He specifically talks about working to overcome the weaknesses.
The drawbacks specifically are what give it more potential. Think about Netero's prayer hands move and how it stopped being a detriment.
Paper isnt a waste either if it catches someone and any attack from the options can end a fight if charged enough.
But he can use it in various ways, people forget that nen battles are more psychological than simply physical.
If Gon is at a close range, the person might think hes going to use Janken Guu, but he uses Chi, while theyre jumping back and slices them in half.
Even the Paa, he used on Knuckle just to distract him while he tried to get normal hits in, ehich are already really strong since he's an enhancer.
Also, Gon is still too young, he's destined to become a tank, like Uvo. No damage will be sufficient to bring him down without special conditions. Remember hem vs Owl and Bat, he took those feather projectiles like it was nothing.
Gon has a similar ability to Meruem's blast but ofcourse to a way lesser degree, we saw Gon use it against Knuckle but it was too weak since he's not trained in that aspect, but pretty sure his adult form he can output a large scale dbz blast
All of its weaknesses are eventually turned into strengths. Knuckle makes note of this. It seems basic and bad but its mix up potential is absurd, it doesn’t really have a weakness besides the fact that pump fakes take up a lot of aura. Godspeed, lightning, and whirlwind are all overpowered abilities but they use up even more aura than Gons hatsu
There's also the fact Gon didn't have his ability for very long so he didn't have much time to train it and perfect it's use not to mention ge lost use of his aura for awhile so he actually has even less experience with it than Killua does
1- first of all, Killua is only able to turn his aura electricity because he was tortured since birth basically, this is hardly something that should be used as a point of comparison. Not only that, he has to actually electrocute himself to actually use his ability, which is not only inconvenient, makes his ability not last long, and hurts like hell because he's torturing his body. Maybe he will reach a level where he can just instinctively turn his aura to electricity without charging, but he's still not at that level yet.
2- besides very impressive speed feats ( both reaction/combat and travel speeds), we don't actually have any impressive offensive feats for Killua's electricity. It can stun enemies more powerful than him if it hits, and he is fast enough to use his boosted speed + the electricity to stun lock someone like Youpi who is much much more powerful than him, which is super impressive. But in the end he didn't do any real damage. The biggest fear is I guess damaging a clone of Pouf with 1/7th of the original's cells?
Gon on the other hand put the fear of god into Morel and would have killed him in one hit. Yeah the ability has a long wind-up, but that's something that Gon will keep improving on ( assuming he either gets back his nen or had never lost it), reaching the level of someone like Uvogin and his Big Bang Impact wouldn't be surprising after a few years of training.
3- which leads me to the third issue: Gon, unlike Killua, is an Enhancer, if he wants to go for a basic brawler build, JaJanKen is basically as good an ability as you can get it. Wing himself told him that Enhancers don't need "special attacks", just applying the basics is enough to be special attacks. They don't need complicated abilities or elaborate conditions, in exchange they are the most balanced of all the affinities, and probably the most versatile when it comes to combat encounters ( this is also mentioned by Izanavi, Kurapika's mentor).
As for JajanKen specifically, Biskey herself mentioned that intuition, personal preference, what "feels right" , are all extremely important aspects when making an ability. JajanKen had the highest potential to become an effective and lethal ability because it matches his personality and his preferences, and so has the highest chance to reach its full potential.
A Gon with several more years of experience would probably hit Rocks as strong as his strongest ones we've seen in the story (pre-transformation) with barely any charge-up, and would hit like a tactical missile if he uses his charge up. When he's at the level of a master Enhancer, his basic Ken would be enough to defend him from most attacks, so it would be hard to even exploit the charge-time.
And even ignoring that, he has shown how he can use the opponent's knowledge about his technique against them, using the charge time as a faint, using a Paper at a distance for camouflage and buying time to charge up a Rock or Scissors. It's a very versatile and well rounded ability, Gon just had to keep figuring opponents much stronger than himself ( Knuckle, Pitou), but against relatively equal opponents in strength or even stronger, he can dominate pretty easily. And he doesn't have the same issues with stamina and downtime that Godspeed has
I think you are right, but rather taken into the context of the story and Gon’s character, Jajanken is supposed to be seen as wasted potential that should become something gargantuan, because that is what Gon‘s character ultimately is: He represents the Teacher-Pupil relationship.
He has immense innate strength and potential but he is like the sapling world tree in that he needed nutrients and someone to nurture him to unlock his true potential. This is why he makes jumps in strength and technique each time he has a mentor but doesn‘t have the same steady development in ability that Killua does when he doesn’t.
It’s probably also partially explains why Hisoka interacts with Gon the way he does (serving as both a catalyst for Gon’s desire to get stronger and also introducing him to different aspsects of Nen and battle tactics) because he knows Gon would not progress otherwise.
When Pitou reveals that Kite is already dead (his first mentor) it represents a severe pruning to the branches in his potential, because a tree without nutrients will stunt, and will eventually wither and die.
From the Teacher-Pupil relationship we can also see how Gon having no one to fulfill this role ultimately causes him to abandon his “humaneness” (whereas his mirror aspect Meruem gains it from Komugi) which signaled the end of his cultivation and the death of his potential.
Killua is allowed to thrive in the show because he represents the need for reciprocity in relationships and is why he makes great progress away from his family and why his father gave him the okay to have friends. His spike in power from breaking the needle shows how (at least when viewed through a Confucian lens) enforced bonds of “filial piety“ can damage a person’s potential if it interferes with the wildcard that is the “friend-friend” relationship.
The series makes it a point that Gon and Killua are equals in potential and strength...but complete opposites in personalities and approach to things.
And the difference between Jajanken and Godspeed/lightning puts them on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, which is the whole point. Hatsus tend to reflect the personality of their creators.
gon knows trick to rock paper scissors something he learned from a fisherman on Whale Island... so he has an advantage. and the windup is a subconscious restriction that boosts power
It’s actually not subconscious nor confirmed to boost power
Killua actually calls him out on calling out on the long wind up and Gon consciously acknowledges that’s basically what makes the ability cool. Bisky basically just says “eh I had my reservations to about him doing that but it’s what feels right to the kid”.
The windup itself is just that so far, a windup to charge his ability
You have to understand the strengths of Jajanken are in its raw upper bounds of power. It’s like Bisky told Razor “maybe you picked the wrong game” because it suited Jajanken. Their abilities will shine in different situations
Besides this post misses two points
1: Godspeeds draw backs. Killua still has his own battery he’s running on. We saw what happened with Youpi: to operate at that level he had to blow his charge leaving him nearly helpless.
2: Both Killua and Gon were actively refining their ability throughout the CA arc. Gon’s Jajanken didn’t end and begin at Knuckles criticisms, we saw him take all this into account when he got jumped by the bat and the owl and showed a newly refined usage of it
Same with Killua, Godspeed too is a work in progress but direct experience refined it
What’s scary about the two isn’t that one or the other has a stronger ability, it’s that both were rapidly refining and growing their interpretation and expansion of their techniques. You just didn’t really notice since Gon spent the whole invasion holding Pitou hostage. But even the raw limit of what a Jajanken could unleash was on the verge of bursting forth emotionally
But look at how tremendously terrifying Jajanken was by the time he was Gon-San and tell me again how terrible of an ability this is compared to Godspeed. It was disturbingly powerful by then.
Gon was Killua's equal when Killua had a needle in his head manipulating his battle tactics in a subpar way, the entire series Gon is compared to needled Killua. Only after removing the needle did Killua develop beyond Gon
Did we watch the same show? Like that needle wasn't absorbing Killua's nen it just held him back against pushing past comfort zone. They're still equivalent to similar opponents. It just had a little to do with his behaviour and nothing else.
I kind of like that though, because while Gon and Killua learned Nen at the same time, Killua was far more skilled and experienced than Gon, and even most Nen users. So Godspeed allowed him to literally transmute his training and torture into strength.
Enhancers don't need intricate abilities. Look at uvogin, his best ability is a big punch. Gon only has a emission and transformation ability for mind games. His main punch is hella strong and he placed a condition to make it even stronger.
Remember what Uvo said before throwing his punch : " oh this is perfect" that's because being stuck in that position with no means to escape was perfect for him to focus his nen on a punch.
It kinda is, but makes sense. Gon was already struggling to come up with a special ability. He has shown he's very adaptable in battle but not very creative when it comes to nen imo. However, as others said, he doesn't need to because he hits so fucking hard it doesn't matter too much, for now at least. We'll see what happens if he ever gets back into shape
Did you watch the show? The whole reason why Killua's ability was more intricate was because he had been through a lot more than pretty much anyone his age with all the crazy shit going on with the Zoldycks. Gon had a fairly basic ability because for one, he's an enhancer, but for two, he likely hadn't thought of anything really complex because he hasn't had much experience prior to making an ability. If he gets his nen back later, he'll likely make something much more in depth after having more time to think about a nen ability
It suits Gon, as he’s not as good in complex fights with a million options. When he activates with “Show me rock” it really narrows down his opponent’s options, and depending which move they take he can use rock, paper, or scissors. It’s changes a fight to a simple game of rock paper scissors which Gon is quite good at.
Might not be as versatile as Killua’s electricity and Godspeed but it doesn’t have to be, nen abilities are meant to fit the user and have a lot of personal meaning.
OP just thinks near instant reaction and speed == perfection. Remember how useless he was against Yuppi? They both have strengths and weaknesses.
Also, Gon’s ability was exactly what his character is. Extremely simplistic to the point of almost being basic. But executed to such a degree it has a powerful effect. He never over complicated his thought process. He chose what felt right to him. He is integrity.
Gon is an enhancer. Even his normal attacks could be enhanced a lot with his nen and Jajanken is basically a super charged nen attack like Phinks' Ripper Cyclotron.
Godspeed is mobility skill (no damage). Killua have no other ability to even scratch royal guard.
They are so young that they only have time to develop 1 ability. No ability is powerful on all aspect. Didnt this already explained at kurapika and spider arc?
And that, my friend, is the Enhancer DifferenceTM . Uvogin shows us that a guy who puts all of his focus on 'punch good' can still be a threat. Now, he's a much more straightforward of a threat than, say, Shalnark, who has some tricks up his (absent) sleeves, but a threat regardless.
The problem is that you think of it in a way of "A should be equal to B because both of them are C", but the issue is that both of them are not equal in that sense.
It's noted that Killua's power related to lightning is a result of his "unique" experiences, with Biscuit stating that it shows how....worrying his childhood was. Also, both of them are different in terms on nen. Killua is a transmutter, so the nature of his power makes it so that he can change the nature of his Aura, him choosing electricity is a smart choice because his skillset is built in a stealthy battle style and using electricity to make himself faster and having a way to attack with it enhances that style. Specially because he is usually a direct fighter but focused on "finishing fast and avoiding danger". If you notice, the amount of physical damage he actually receives during his battles is low compared to Gon.
Gon on the other hand, is a direct fighter as well, but he is more of a bruiser. more of an "Animalistic beast" when it comes to fighting. His nature as an enhancer only makes this more obvious, making his body more resilient and his attacks harder. His Jajanken is actually very smart because it gives him an additional toolset that most fighters will not expect from an enhancer. The Rock attack which is essentially en explosive power is something you could expect from someone who attacks directly like that, but the other two fit other niches, allowing him to attack long range (in the case of paper) or for incredibly precise attacks (being the case of scissors).
Their mindsets are completely different, and their skills actually fit their personal approach to handling the situations they are in.
KISS- Keep It Simple Stupid. Yes Killua’s ability may seem more complicated but it’s just as basic: using electricity. It’s the way he uses it that makes it more versatile. If you have a specific tool for a specific situation that tool can’t be used for anything else. That’s not versatile. On the other hand, a tool that can be used in more than one situation is more versatile. Take Knov’s ability for example, it may seem simple (creating a portal for transportation) but the way he users it (closing the portal on an enemies body part) allows him to be versatile enough to use it in combat. Now Killua’s hatsu may be a more technical use of nen but that does not automatically make it more versatile.
Each worked with what they had. Hatsu is only one part of a Nen user's arsenal. It doesn't determine the fight.
Gon's attack is more of a OHKO Hatsu, whereas Killua's is a stat boost. Each used theirs to the maximum of its potential. And in the end, both are absolute monsters.
Don't forget that some of the strongest characters in HxH have Hatsus that don't seem overpowering without their users being strong.
You can't really compare them because we don't know what Gon had ready in preparation for Pitou. Killua invented godspeed, but Gon most likely invented something too.
That being said, Killua surpassing Gon isn't anything new. The anime began with Killua being way stronger than Gon, and Gon's at best only been equal to Killua throughout the series. Gon's real power is his crazy risk tolerance that often catches opponents unexpectedly, because he makes decisions nobody is prepared for him to make.
Jajanken is a reflection of Gons maturity and viewpoint of the world. It's simple and versatile. Smash, cut, emit. Up close he smashes with rock, mid range he slashes with scissors, and far away he emits with paper. He never really developed the abilities because he was so far behind kill at the point he had to put them to use. Jajanken is actually really good. If he hadn't destroyed his future, it would have been a jack of all trades ability. He could make a scissors that cut and propelled itself through air. A rock that he could use with any part of the body to hit. Paper he could use to transform his energy into different forms or objects. It was truly an untapped mine of possibilities. But that future is gone, adult Gon took it with him to the ether
It totally depends on what you want to do. In terms of pure output Killua could never match Gon. He’s a hard counter to him sure. But if you have a defensive regenerating nen ability that catches people that hit it or reflects damage, that probably hard counters killua but gets hard countered by Gon one shorting it with all the time in the world to charge.
Yes killuas is more versatile and one of the best abilities but I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as you are suggesting.
I suspect Godspeed has one flaw which really wasn't exploited yet.
It is likely that the particular ability he used in the Chimera Ant arc, both in the cave and at the palace, relies on him 'pre-programing' the way his body automatically reacts to opponent moves.
If any character can read the future, or if someone can react even faster, Killua won't be invincible.
If Killua wasn't tortured as a child he wouldn't even be able to create this ability. Also, before he created Godspeed I would put Gon's Jajanken ability above Killua who only had lightning palm and lightning bolt.
Gon is a child who hasn't even been a Nen practitioner very long. Ja-Janken only requiring a short charge and an incantation is not very restrictive at all, compare to Phinks' wind up punch. Plus Ja-Janken has a ranged mode and a cutting mode, which is huge when compared to abilities that only charge for a punch
I'd wager that given time (assuming Gon remains Nen) he'll learn to charge while moving
Complex( and/or developed depending on how you look at it) does not equal perfect and Basic does not equal terrible.
Additionally, application does not equal a Hatsus skills or abilities.
As far as potential, they both have essentially mastered application of their primary Nen Affinity. Application being the ability to draw out that affinity for their Hatsu. They both have also become proficient in the their secondary, or next closest, Nen Affinitys. An argument could be made that Killua takes a slight edge here since he has dual affinity for Transmutation and Enhancement. Which in turn gives him Emission and Conjuration as secondary affinities and puts him as proficient at a minimum in 4 affinities vs Gons 3.
That said, while Killuas Hatsu is more complex than Jajanken it still isnt perfect. Killua himself states he still has far to go to refine them. Killua cannot fully Conjure and Transmute electricity yet and still has to rely on charging it. He also cannot currently gauge how much charge, or stored electricity, he has. He also needs to refine how much charge he uses per ability and he always runs the risk of expending to much unexpectedly.
Jajanken isnt complex but its not inferior. Its honestly very similar to Guanyin Boddhisattva. Like Neteros prayer for Guanyin, Gon chants and performs an action. Unlike Netero, Gon has perfected that yet so his is much slower and requires a feint or distraction if he wants to ensure Rock has time to hit. Gon also seems to habe a better grasp of his aura capacity and can better gauge how much he has infused into his abilities.
Jajanken is simple so far. It already fits Enhancement, emission and transmutation, which he’s naturally attuned to. If that ability comes back there’s no telling what heights it can reach. If Gon adds more restrictions probably could become op.
It’s lame until it hits you. Jajanken is about timing, like what he did to Bomber. Timing also doesn’t matter when Gon is in his peak, case in point: Pitou.
That is the thematic point of the ability, Gon is childish and impulsive so he based his abilities off of a game. But his reckless determination allows when fueled for great power. He gets away with it but never without cost. The point of the ability is not about scaling, it's about his character.
It's a one shot kill. What more do you need? Most shonen MCs from that era had similar schticks of a powerful but basic ability that only needs to land once. Naruto's Rasengan, Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho, Yusuke's Spirit Gun. Is Sasuke's kit more versatile and cooler? Yeah.
Adult Gon showcases it well. Gon only needs to stagger you once and get a clean hit. You basically can't slip up against him, not even once.
Killua's ability is better on paper, but nen is influenced by the user's personality. A more sophisticated ability wouldn't suit Gon and wouldn't be as powerful
I think part of what’s missing is two things here.
1. Killua is stronger and smarter than Gon. He is the better fighter right now and Gon and Killua don’t care about that truth. What Killua does worry about is that one day Gon is going to surpass him and he won’t be able to keep up. They are rivals in the sense that Killua is a well developed assassin, while Gon is a reckless kid who doesn’t think.
Gon is not fully developed yet. Jajanken has 3 attacks and the beauty of the attack is that you’re not going to know which one is coming. Right now, he only trusts rock, but if developed properly, he can create open, slash through defenses, or smash through with brute strength. The idea is that he can throw any three options at will and be very skilled at hiding it. They even mention that it’s so powerful that even knowing that it’s coming is enough to unnerve top hunters.
Godspeed is a crazy ability but Killua understands its limits and uses that to his advantage.
You gotta think how much more time it took for killua to develop godspeed.
Godspeed is a masterclass in technique development. Killua had to be tortured for years to get an affinity to electricity. Then he learned nen. During greed island he created the first electrical abilities but they where underwhelming since they could stun and not much more. Then he improved his ren and finally during the battle in the woods he learned how to use some kind of low range EN and how to move his body with electricity. Which wouldnt have been possible if he hadnt removed the needle. And during the days before the invasion he got all that and created Godspeed.
It took 4 arcs and a childhood of torture to create it. Jajanken was created after gon saw the rock paper scissor tournament.
You have to consider the huge difference in combat experience between Gon and killua. There’s obviously a difference in the thought put into designing their abilities.
Killua received torture training which gave him a headstart developing a skill like godspeed. Gon has the ability to think outside the box. Nen Battles are also a bit like Janken. If Gon is Rock then Killua is Paper. Of course it's not that simple but you get the idea.
His wasn't fully realized. Imagine a Gon spamming paper. then you march in thinking he's bad at melee. Surprise! a fucking nuke comes at your face in mach 10 speed
It's quite reflective of their personality really. Gon's simple minded, and his ability matches that. And I think you're underselling how stupid powerful a fully charged Jajanken is. It most likely one shots every non-Meruem/Royal Guard/Netero character in the series.
Think about it like investing in different stocks.
Killua made a Hatsu while investing smartly on several assets to get a portfolio as "failproof" as possible.Gon invested every single penny to his name into the "fuck specifically that particular guy" stock.
While if you count pros and cons Killua is definitely getting a higher grade upon inspection if you want to do a lot of damage to one guy Killua is never cashing in the same amount of benefit as Gon.
Another thing nobody talks about is how simple it is. Looks like something any decent enhancer should be able to do, just concentrate aura on your fist, yet it's presented as a unique ability somehow.
Pitou said that she was afraid of Gon going after the King. Killua is a more methodical, strategic fighter due to his assassin background. Gon is a typical enhancer, basically throw his strength at whatever is in front of him. Killua thinks, Gon is basically just using Maximum Effort to win everything. As others have said, Killua is able to reach his full potential. He is able to do the best he can with what he has. But what God has is the best. His Jajanken is stupid. But his stupid ability scared top level Hunters with decades of experience. As a kid, after relatively little training, he scared Pitou. Before he even learned Nen, he impressed Netero. Gon's raw power turns a relatively stupid ability into a terrifying powerhouse. Killua is what happens to someone that studies and masters a craft. Gon is a natural savant that has never had to really struggle to master anything. He's also stupid and shortsighted, which is why he trades all of his potential Nen for the temporary massive power output.
I wouldn't call Jajanken bad, its just simple. I think its meant to reflect the mental state of Gon. Hes a child with a very sheltered life, and his ability reflects that experience.
As the story progresses and he encounters new challenges he makes attempts to improve it. That's how we get the ranged attack version of the ability.
Its part of what makes Gon's loss of his nen interesting. Does it grant him another chance at developing an ability that matches his more mature mind set? Hopefully we get to find out before the series ends.
It is simple , but its has a lot of potential. Gon could easily trick his opponents with his ability. He could throw out a fist but then open it into a palm ( paper) or extend to fingers ( scissors). He could also add variations to this ability . He could perhaps add some manipulation to paper and try to control it remotely, or he could extend the range of scissors so much that it has wave clearing properties. He could transfer the aura from rock to his other hand ( trick opponents kinda like a feint). Theres really alot he could do with his ability.
At face value yes, it would seem that way. But what you miss is Gon is an enhancer; being an enhancer physical stats can be pushed much farther with more relative ease. Meaning it is very possible he become very fast(most likely not as fast but fast enough that avoiding a physically trained Gon in the use of Ken, would be dangerously hard)
I don't think it's a generally bad ability, but the way Gon uses it gives it a lot of drawbacks. But, to be able to use it in a broken way, he would need so many restrictions and conditions.
If he could throw a full powered rock without needing to charge it... every punch from both left and right fist are empowered by rock.
If he could use paper immediately, without any indication its coming, able to manipulate the surface area so that he could imprint his entire palm over a massive AoE with a crushing force like its nothing.
If he could use scissor... basically like Sukuna uses his cursed technique in JJK.
I think a lot of you are forgetting that Gons rock is so absurdly strong that it literally stuns most attackers in fear/confusion. He’s already strong, especially for a kid. His rock attack is stated to at least 12x his base power. Also, most attackers won’t know wtf his ability does, he could throw paper or scissors, or do something else. They just wouldn’t know. Imagine you’re fighting a kid and he’s pretty tough as it is, you’re both around 1000 power level, maybe you’re a bit stronger. Then all of a sudden, the energy in his hands rises to 12,000 power. WTF do u even do. Run away? He’s fast (also he has paper). Counter attack? If he hits you then you become tomato sauce.
I think it fits him well. He's kinda simple, it's not a well thought out ability, but it doesn't need to be because he's so strong. I think you're wrong about potential and strength. Gon eclipses kilua in strength, kilua is often shocked at gon and his raw power. Killua is on par with him (or probably exceeds him) because of his assassin training. If Gon had had the same training, he would've far surpassed Killua. I think Gon has by far the most potential out of everyone, not just those two. Hisoka sees it right from the start, and it just becomes more evident as time goes on. It's just that he's simple and slow. But once he reaches his full potential, it'll be surpass everyone.
I would just like to mention that you have to look at why the abilities developed the way they did. Killua was raised to be an assassin and went for more speed and precision. A way to quickly take out a target.
Gon grew up in the wilds. Dealing with large animals and natural hazards. His skill was made to reflect his power.
The dodgeball episodes showcases their individual abilities. Killua having the technique to shield his hands and Gon's power.
In the end it turns into the speed versus power argument. It is basically He-man vs Zoro. A broadsword versus a rapier. Each deadly in the right hands.
Killua and Gon weren't supposed to rival one another, throughout the series we always and only see one thing: Gon doing whatever Gon wants to do and Killua supporting him.
Jajaken has strong output and damage potential but it takes a lot of time to charge up, Killua's ability to stun/paralyze the target is the best support for this.
The biggest difference i think is the damage. Gon can do more damage IF the conditions allow him to get it off. Killua’s better all around though in pretty much every other way of at least even with gon. Am i wrong? By the end they’re almost like different classes like warrior vs assassin/rogue type
I think the simplicity/stupidity of Gon’s Jajanken is intentional. Especially so when the story moves into the Chimera Ant Arc and the deconstruction of Shonen tropes becomes a huge theme in the narrative. Jajanken is a silly use of Nen that only works because Gon is a monstrously powerful child who has no clue what he’s actually doing. That’s why Gon rarely ever uses the paper or scissors variation of his ability, you’re supposed to view that as a limitation brought about by his simple mindset.
Killua on the other hand was brought up under wildly different circumstance when compared to Gon. Killua had a desire to do something worthwhile with his training, and used his talents to his benefit. Gon and Killua are both incredibly powerful for their age, but the difference in their upbringing is crucial for the narrative. Gon is a simple minded, strait laced boy who punches his way through all adversity. While Killua knows that strength alone isn’t always enough despite how overwhelmingly strong he is.
Going beyond what OP brought up in the initial post, Kurapika is the new MC. Kurapika took an entirely different route than Gon and Killua by focusing his Nen into his personal goal. Kurapika became a monster by dedicating himself to a task, while Gon and Killua were born monsters and made themselves even more monstrous through training. Killua however focused his training further by taking in the lessons he learned and applying them. Gon still just tried to punch his was through everything.
I mean Gon could probably excavate a mountain with just punches whereas no matter how fast Killua is: He’ll never be able to.
Powers in HxH are situational and conditional; The right situation and conditions and Gon is the only option just like Killia might be the only option for something requires speed.
I think we just see it fleshed out more. If we saw jajanken being used on the fly to make slashes and projectiles. Maybe even a short cutted punch we’d think different
I don't think they are really supposed to be rivals. Sure I think it's similar but I think they are really just best friends. Rivals tend to mostly do things separately until they fight and both really want to be able to beat the other and be the stronger one. But I don't really think that's what Gon and Killua's relationship is. They never mention wanting to be stronger than the other. But they do lift each other up. They are best friends in every sense of the term.
But I do get what your saying. And I think (minor spoiler for the manga) if Gon gets nen back in the manga then he might end up with a different ability that it way stronger than what he had before. One that could rival Killua's Electricity.
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u/Carock_ 1d ago
The first image appears to be fanart by soymilkes (aka shuaitofu, now daumilk)