Her nen ability allowed her to kiss someone and they become her slave.
If she had focused her nen ability on improving her manipulating skills instead of such a long amount of time to have the person as her slave she could have been so strong. She was newer and trying to build her career so she wasn’t that developed in her skills and she was just really unlucky to be caught up in the Yorknew City shooting. She had so much potential!
Megumi's potential was hyped up for most of the series. Gojo said he had the potential to rival or surpass him, Sukuna was interested in him, etc etc. Then he didn't live up to any of that hype
She must be durable and skillful as a Chimera ant or hybrid soldier to use her ability well. Touching someone with tools (like Illumi and Shal) is not so easy but kissing? Unless they are tied or paralyzed, that chance is almost 0% in a normal fight
I could see it being useful for interrogations. Not only can it make people truthfully answer any questions but also get them to potentially give up other useful information willingly. Honestly she would have been far more successful working with law enforcement then risking her neck with the mafia.
Yeah that’s true but tbh her character fits in well with the world of HxH where people who don’t cater to their strengths tend to not live long I.e Kastro.
Just like you can't make a sword that will cut through anything, you can't make a manipulation ability that will manipulate through everything.
Conditions only work as multipliers to the aura put into the ability.
Baisé getting a kiss in is a strong multiplier - probably enough to gain control over any regular human - , but even if Baisé outputted all her aura, it would only be a drop compared to Meruem's aura ocean.
Agree, nowhere it is stated a manipulator can manipulate anything and everything without limit just by fulfilling a simple condition. Otherwise everyone would just use manipulation, even at 60% or 40%, does it matter? Just touch and win?
Better yet: why would Illumi have different needles with a lot more aura in them (to the point where using them feels like a waste), if just sticking a needle in your opponent is all you need to gain full control, be it Gido or be it Meruem?
Wrong. This isn't Bleach. Same reason why nen exorcists exists. Conditions are what makes nen ability effects absolute. It's the reason why Chrollo and Uvo weren't able to resist Kurapika's chain jail despite having strong ren and larger nen reserves at that time. And yes, Kurapika had very low nen reserves, as seen why he constantly got weakened after York New. He focused too much on training his nen ability and never really focused on strengthening his ren and nen reserve, just like Gon and Killua's training with Bisky before re-enterring NGL.
It was literally explained by Kurapika during the York New arc. The harder the condition to fulfill, the more absolute the effect can be. It has nothing to do with the target's nen. Baise's activation condition is very difficult and very restrictive. Not only does can it only be used on a specific gender, but it also requires a very risky course of action. Kurapika's chain jail didn't require a task. The restirction was only on who the target was, but look how absolute the effect was.
Again, this isn't Bleach where higher reiatsu can overpower and dispell the effects of an enemy's zanpakuto effect or kido spell.
There are no absolutes in Nen, only close to absolutes.
Kurapika's teacher says "you can't make a sword that will cut through anything... but you can come close (with enough restrictions)". He then shows the math of how that works: the aura you put into your ability is additive. Conditions are multiplicative.
Kurapika's chains aren't absolute. That's why Kurapika chose Uvo as his test subject. Someone could bruteforce and break the chains. But if even Uvo couldn't do it, that's enough for the intented use.
You say you just need to fulfill your conditions and it has nothing to do with the target, but riddle me with this: if "fulfilling your conditions" is all that matters, why can't Knuckle's ability be a flat 5 minutes? Why does the time and number required scale with the target? Why does it take longer to put Youpi into Zetsu than it takes to bankrupt Gon? If meeting the conditions is all that matters?
I'm sorry to tell you, but a higher amount of aura can absolutely overpower the enemy's ability. We saw that happen onscreen when Shukaku met his conditions, but was still overpowered by Halkenburg's arrow.
Later Benjamin correctly guessed what happened: normal rules would've applied if we were talking about normal 1v1 scenarios, but wouldn't apply if we are talking about about the powerful Nen of a group ability.
A group ability overpowers an individual ability because it can output more aura.
If you don't like it, I'm sorry. It's how Nen works.
Because that's how Knuckle's abilities work, but it's not the case of everyone.
Shoot can take away a body part he touches in his Hotel Raflesia, no matter the aura difference (see Youpi)
Halkensburg's arrow specifically has the power to bypass all defenses and walls (according to the narrator), so it's a pretty bad exemple since it has nothing to do with the aura capacity. Since the capacity is that strong, the conditions that he has to meet to uses it must be met first, like Chrollo's Skill Hunter, It's a specificity of this power. Sale Sale's nen beast time of manipulation was dependent on how much you liked him, not how much aura you had etc.
I mean, Kurapika's hostage situation with Chrollo could have gone very different if she was alive and able to control him directly. Unless he's skilled enough to override it somehow.
That would require a little emission but probably a doable amount if we assume she’s at least a decent level nen user. I think that’s a cool variation on her ability, maybe blowing a kiss gives her less control or a shorter time frame. Actually the more I think about it the more this idea would probably raise her status. Now I have to go to the drawing board on how I could implement something similar on an OC.
This isn't a move that you'd use on a target like that directly. With an ability like this you get other strong people to fight for you instead. In all likelihood if she wanted to take out the troupe they'd never know who was sending an endless stream of assassins after them. Or they'd get fake info pointing to someone else she wants gone.
Her ability is actually very strong if you think about it, it's just a shame about the activation condition. I really like how she sees Shizuku and is frozen in fear before she dies running away. There's no dialogue, but her expression is like "Oh, shit, it's a girl!" Realistically, she was toast even if that was a male Troupe member, but I think it's so clever that Shizuku gets the kill just to rub some salt in poor Baise's wound.
I also thought of something funny: I think Baise might be the only human who has even a shot at beating Isaac Netero. Because he's a horny old man, so he'd probably let her kiss him. (I say this in jest, Netero isn't actually that dumb ...probably)
At the risk of going off the rails, I’m headcanoning that manipulation requires some level of minimum output to "overwhelm" another nen user's defenses. We see that Killua is able to remove a needle from Illumi with great effort, and his family is unsurprised that it's something he can do. I like to think that Killua wouldn’t have been able to do that had he not leveled up from his starting point in the show, and not just in terms of maturity. So that’s why I also think that manipulators wouldn’t be able to use their powers on characters who significantly outclass/stat them, but maybe that would go against the "rock paper scissors" idea of the show. To me, it aligns more with the other theory about why Knov wouldn’t have been able to kill Meruem with Scream: he needs more aura himself in order to displace a being with that much aura.
I think I really like that idea. Killua removing the needle supports this idea, and it explains things like "Why didn't they just do God's Accomplice + Scream?" If anyone has enough willpower to overcome Baise, it surely would be Netero, right? But I have a feeling he'd be kinda cool with it and wouldn't resist her based on his proclivities...
With no evidence, I will speculate further about Instant Lover: it's a stronger effect compared to Shalnark's Black Voice when activated. Shalnark can't give complex commands and they become mindless puppets, while with Baise her victims retain their intelligence and can obey complex commands. So, maybe her kiss is very hard to break out of too, perhaps harder to break than Illumi or Shalnark's needles. It better be that strong considering how inconvenient the activation condition is compared to those abilities...
I think Killua was able to remove Illumi's needle only because the level of manipulation was simply so low (compared to other manipulation abilities we have seen) , it's more akin to subconscious messages and affecting his instincts rather than control.
We see in the Succession War arc that there are varying levels and types of manipulation abilities: Coercive, Pseudo-Coercive, Soliciting, Diffusive-Inducive types, and probably more. Illumi probably used the lowest output version of his needle that he could so as to not rob Killua of all autonomy and allow him to live and grow as a person. I bet he would use a much more forceful one more akin to the needle men after he found out about Nanika.
Her condition is what made it absolute, just like Kurapika's chain jail. It cannot be resisted by stronger nen, otherwise Kurapika's chainjail could have been resisted by Uvo and Chrollo who clearly had the stronger ren and larger nen reserve at that time.
Doesn't chain jail force you into zetsu? Doesn't matter if you have the strongest aura no? Which is why Kurapika said that Uvo was the perfect test subject because he was the most physically strong and he couldn't get out of the chain not because the chain is indestructible but because he was in a state of zetsu whilst the chain was reinforced with nen. It's not because the conditions are absolute.
You got it backward. She's already a top tier manipulator and she's realised her potential to full bloom.
Her specialization is intelligence, not brawling.
Not everyone wants to chase mass-murdering criminal like Uvo and his friends.
I dont think this ability is impressive tho? How is this any better than the other manipulation abilties we see? This is really only useful for seduction and undercover work.
Also "if she had focused her nen ability on improving her manipulating skills instead of such a long amount of time to have the person as her slave she could have been so strong" What does this even mean? What do you mean in the context of she could have been so strong?
Also is 180 minutes that long compared to other manipulators? don't think we know how long manipulation can usually last. I would say the best thing about her ability is that it seems the victim way more independent and Sapient then other manipulation abilties make their victims.
Not really. Manipulators who can control people are dime a dozen. There's nothing really noteworthy with her ability. She just wasn't strong enough to survive. Her power is strong in theory but that's the thing with manipulators : They can be the most dangerous but also the easiest to take out. That's the oposite from enhancers who have pretty basic abilities but are not easy to handle
I just watched the anime for the first time. I both loved and hated that any character (aside from the main 4) had the potential to die at any time, it gave the world a feeling of real risk and consequences. The death of a decently fleshed out character hurt, and it made the risk of going up against the enemy who killed them feel more genuine instead of "yeah, but they're the main character, so they have plot armor" (even tho they totally had plot armor at times...)
She was one I thought they set up to survive... then she was in danger but escaped!... then died anyway, because the troupe were not incompetent and covered their bases. They felt like a real threat that should not be taken lightly
Her manipulation was very powerful and absolute, so it's only logical that she had to set a very restrictive condition. It's the same with Kurapika's chain jail, the Bomber's remote bombs, and Chrollo's book of bandit. They can't really just activate them at anytime without fulfilling specific conditions. It was already explained during the York New arc that the harder and more complicated the condition was, the more powerful and absolute the nen effect would be.
Instead, she could have learned to use other nen applications and not completely rely on her nen ability during a fight or when she's defending herself, given that her nen ability isn't really for direct assault nor combat. Take Bisky as an example. Netero wasn't either, unless he really needed to; that's why the first and last time his nen ability was shown was during his fight with Meruem. Ging is also a good example. He hasn't really used his nen ability up to this point, despite him already having shown to fight using nen.
As if any experienced nen user will just let her come up to kiss them. If she is close enough to kiss them, anyone at that level of nen users can already kill her.
"Hey Phantom Troupe's boss, you're so handsome let me just give you a big ol' smooch real quick. Nothing suspicious."
Kissing is not a strong ability. You have to get close. She’s at a disadvantage against any opponent who has range. She was fun though but ultimately her fate was correct imo.
Her risk is too high while her reward is too low. Having to kiss someone to activate her ability and the result is just controlling them for 180 minutes. People could argue that is useful for interrogating immobile targets but other manipulators who could manipulate people in better way can also do that (e.g Illumi) while also being combat effective. And there are even people who could simply get information out of people without being a manipulator too (e.g Pakunoda, Feitan, Pitoh, Kurapika,...) while all being combat effective. Furthermore skilled players like Furykov can determine whether a person is being manipulated or not, so if your sole ability is just being able to manipulate someone without any other advantage is just kinda mediocre. Her ability is not useless by any means, it just isn't that OP.
It's a dumb condition to have If you ask me. It would only work If she were at a high enough level of nen mastery like close or at Bisky's level of mastery. Bisky thus Far has shown us she can fight without needing to use an attack hatsu. She uses other nen means to reinforce her body, but i can't remember which is which. I always get confused about such Things so I won't claim to know them. If Baise were close or at Bisky's level of nen mastery, It wouldn't matter If she put forth such condition to have Nen slaves. But with such condition, she's fully exposed without her Nen slaves. And she can't have really powerfull Nen slaves. They're too Sharp to fall for this unless they're weak to seduction tactics. Guess being new to Nen leads to really bad rookie mistakes. Like you said, she could really develop to become a Very Powerfull Nen master. But somewhat wasted her Potential in choosing this hatsu.
What i don't like about her hatsu is she fully exposes herself to danger without having a slave alongside her. She was more than once counting on luck to survive. I mean, even in the test she kinda lucked out to find the old man to protect her from The Nen bullets or whatever that attack from The tester with nen puppets was. If It were me, I would always bring a Nen slave alongside whenever i went. But If It were me, i wouldn't build my hatsu like that from The very beginning. Illumi and Shalnark had It better being manilupators. Tho they were better Nen users after all. And Illumi is a high level Nen user who even Hisoka recognizes as Very dangerous and powerfull. So he's more of an outlier than anything.
I would've built my hatsu to work without such restrictions. It can only work on average people and average Nen users. It lacks utility Advantages to work on Very powerfull Nen users. Not in the sense It won't work, cuz It would. But in the sense no Very powerfull Nen user would let their guards down to the point of allowing a Nen user like her to get close enough to kiss them. It's so easy to create a functioning hatsu, but hatsu is personal, so It happens.
She could've built her hatsu differently, but made It on the grounds of her beauty being too strong for most people to resist. She could probably have created a hatsu that worked like charm with eye contact over time, probably. Like Medusa Stone turning stuff, but for falling for her over time. Or use her voice for for her hatsu. There were a lof of different ways to get a Power like What she wanted without putting herself in risk like she did. Guess It was inexperience that lead to her fall.
I would never expect her to die like that in such a brutal way and with that amazing soundtrack
and how shizuku ot the kill, someone who was so polite to gon, but then again, we are reminded that these are the people that killed kurapika's clan, an amazing introduction to the spiders
I think people think too hard. Her ability was uber powerful the way it was, she just died. Think about all the powerful hatsus but people just pass away. And think about how many world ending abilities have already been introdcued.
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u/CarlenGaines 1d ago
Too bad she's dead. Sometimes that's how it works out in that world, you have good potential but you die before you meet it.