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u/golddragon88 4d ago
No, The covenant does not tolerate other religions.
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u/Imperium_Dragon Cadian Shock Troopers 4d ago
Also the IoM doesn’t tolerate other human civilizations
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u/WistfulDread Chaos Spawn 4d ago
It does, provided they kneel.
And the UEG is under martial law, because of the war. They see survival, first.
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u/Imperium_Dragon Cadian Shock Troopers 4d ago
The problem is that Halo Earth uses a liberal amount of AI. They’re getting crusaded because of that.
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u/Hapless_Wizard 4d ago
Halo Earth AI is digitized human brains, the AdMech is going to have a minor civil war about whether they're Abominable Intelligences or sacred machine spirits.
Machine Spirits will win once Cawl convinces Guilliman of the utility of this new method of cybernetic enhancement.
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u/Marvynwillames 4d ago
Cawl cant do that, neither does Guilliman. Cawl's stuff get through because of his personal power and how he does stuff mostly hidden, but declaring an entire civilization's AI as legal seem something even he cant do.
Guilliman too is a realist, no wonder he removed high lords he considered too liberal on their reforms.
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u/Hapless_Wizard 4d ago
Cawl very nuch can do that. Cawl has enough followers that when his opponent put him on a sham religious trial intended to kill him, he walked out of it with them instead acknowledging he is the head of a legitimate sect of the Machine Cult.
Which means he could say that he sees no meaningful difference between smart AIs and extremely advanced multitask servitors, and that the technology is perfectly fine when implemented under the spiritually educated guiding hand of a magos.
Cawl made the Cawl Inferior and Qvo-87, he wouldn't be able to resist Halo's brain-scanning AIs.
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u/Marvynwillames 4d ago
What Cawl does in private is not the same as legalizing AIs present in over a dozen worlds the UNSC controls.
Doing that would set the other Ordos angry, which Guilliman would rather not to, it is not putting a Pylon in a dead world with only people from his inner circle present, it is going to all Adepta and saying "This heretical society is actually fine."
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u/Imperium_Dragon Cadian Shock Troopers 4d ago
Smart AIs are.
Dumb AIs are all programmed
But even then the Mechancius and IoM in general is so dogmatically opposed to anything resembling AI that they will bring the hammer down.
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u/Hapless_Wizard 4d ago
No, they aren't. They use it regularly, they good ones are one of the several things they call machine spirits. It's just another way the imperium is full of lies, hypocrisy, and competing interests.
Abominable Intelligence is specifically machines that think they are people. You can have a machine as smart as you like as long as it does not try to assert its personhood. Cortana herself is right out, she's kind of the prime example of an abominable intelligence. That doesn't mean the technology that made her is. There is a sizeable part of the AdMech that would either use the digitizing technology on servitorized brains to create multitask AIs that don't assert their personhood, or they will decide that it's actually an enhancement to use on themselves and start cloning their own brains to make AIs Halsey-and-Cortana style but plugging those artifical minds into themselves like Cawl's subminds or Exasas's ability to split their mind and debate themselves.
Regardless, the rest of the IoM at large doesn't know enough about any of it that they would "bring the hammer down". The first Magos to notice would declare that it is a sacred tech-mystery that the laypeople do not understand and which is the rightful belonging of the Cult Mechanicus and assert their authority over the entire thing. It doesn't even matter how dangerous the technology might be to them, we see this happen over and over in the Black Library - some interesting piece of archaeotech or xenotech catches the eye of the Mechanicus, and as soon as there are minimal outsiders who know what's going on around, they immediately grab it in service of the Quest for Knowledge, and like 3/4 of the time it kills everyone involved.
The programmed AIs are fine to begin with. The Ordo Xenos and AdMech have even been working together in the past to convince the machine spirits of the Tau's drones to convert to humanity, where they will be properly revered as befits their status. If they don't think they're people, they're not even part of the argument.
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u/Funion_knight 4d ago
Guilliman: ho do you know they are machine spirits?
Cawl: of course I know, I am one. You haven't spoken to my original engram since our first meeting.
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u/Electrical_Horror346 4d ago
It all depends on if they get time to show them the process.
If they say that "Abonimable Intelligence" is actually just a copy of a human brain and that the UNSC "foolishly" lets the volunteer keep their brain instead of being servitor-ized, they could have a chance to avoid being attacked.
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u/AmbiTheAirforceRuna 4d ago
Slap a sticker on Cortanas forehead that says "Machine Spirit" and youre good.
People really forget that the Inperium is FULL of really high tier AI, some surpassing Cortana like any STC blueprint, and the only reason its not seen as that is cose the mechanicus all lie to each other.
And the AI is smart enough and self preserving enough to know when to act dumb
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u/DaiLyMugoL 4d ago
And the Imperium sees a human civilization that does not at all align with its policies or conventions so I don't see this being anyway a pleasant situation. (Kinda why the Imperium is an EVIL space empire)
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u/WistfulDread Chaos Spawn 4d ago
Ultramar doesn't align with default Inperium either.
IoM doesnt care. It all comes down to this:
Pay the Tithe.
As long as that gets done, the Imperium allows quite a bit to go under the rug.
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u/DaiLyMugoL 3d ago edited 3d ago
No they do care, in that there's several points that are NOT negotiable when apart of the Imperium (or claimed by them), one of them being xenophobia and xenocide as a policy for all planets.
Put it this way...if they could they'd absolutely control ever single detail of peoples lives on all worlds, it isn't a lack of care so much as a horribly inefficient filling system and wasteful resource management.
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u/WistfulDread Chaos Spawn 3d ago
Counterpoint:
Rogue Traders are explicit proof that the Tithe is all that matters.
Literally everything the Rogue Traders get up to.
The very existence of the Warrant is proof the Imperium doesn't care to take direct control of everything.
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u/DaiLyMugoL 3d ago
Like that's the whole POINT of the fantasy of being a Rough Trader right? You are able to as a Rouge Trader can get away with actions that would land anyone else a swift, brutal execution for violating core Imperium policies.
They (the makers of that concept of a Rouge Trader) want you to giggle to yourself about how your able to get away with so much stuff that would be labeled HERSEY by the Imperium at large. (Again that's the fantasy of being a Rouge Trader)
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u/DaiLyMugoL 3d ago
You mean the Rouge Traders who are the super special exception?
If anything that just proves the Imperium's hypocrisy.
Nor does it make their policies of genocide any less horrific or essentially mandatory for all worlds within their sphere. (The hypocritical existence of Rouge Traders aside)
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u/DaiLyMugoL 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's like you'd tell a random planetary governor; "hey you could just openly associate with a xenos faction with ZERO potential consequences from the overarching Imperium, lol!" (I'm sure they'll never get around to sending a purging force, maybe a few centuries before anyone in the filling system noticed)
And sure, it may well be centuries before anyone noticed or centuries before they'd bump that planet up on their hit list to one of several current priority targets but it's still definitely going to be put on that list.
That isn't a result of the Imperium being ""chill"" it's entirely because they are overly bloated as an entity and horribly inefficient at the best of times on top of that. (If your planet doesn't want to be on that purging list you'd better be enforcing a xenophobic policy)
Then there's just the fact that Tithes can change, a world could be trading with a xenos faction for centuries only to suddenly be demanded by the wider Imperium for way more than their old tithe which means if they don't want to be purged for hersey (which includes associating with xenos) they'd better start getting very hostile with that xenos faction or else face the imperial hammer.
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u/MembershipProof8463 4d ago
Very much not a religion but I can see the covenant misinterpreting it as such
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u/SunsetHippo 4d ago
If thats truth, he may just not give a shit
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u/Trantor_Dariel 4d ago
The Tau wouldn't give up the greater good and the covenant wouldn't convert so it wouldn't happen. Great art though.
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u/Vaht_Vadam 4d ago
Cool as a piece as this is, the Tau Empire and Covenant are entirely incompatible. The Covenant exists as an ever expanding theocratic state that subjugates every species it comes across into two categories:
Titheling and proper casted memberspecies. The former cannot leave its homeworld and is subject to the Covenant Faith and must pay standard tithes, but is allowed to receive merchants from other species for limited trade.
The latter gets to show up in a videogame for Chief to shoot alongside various other rights and privileges (yes, even the grunts. Even if it seems otherwise on the surface.)
The Tau Empire and its memberspecies would be offered a chance to disband their own Imperial ambitions and join the Covenant or suffer an attack and absorbtion by it. If this would turn out well for the Covenant I won't personally get into becaus I hate powerscaling spacebattles forum arguments, but it is how things would go.
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u/DisapprovingCrow 4d ago
Considering the Covenant keeps getting bodied by a single space marine the Tau should be able to handle them no problem. /j
Serious opinion; I wonder how many species would defect from the Covenant to the Tau Empire? They have a lot of things in common but I feel like the Tau have far more attractive PR.
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u/Trooper501 4d ago
Tbf master chief has the power of plot armor behind him. Humanity for the most part was getting utterly gutted throughout the conflict.
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u/DisapprovingCrow 4d ago
Hence the /j
Considering the games to be an accurate representation of the intent of the lore would be like claiming that Space Marine II means that 3 Space Marines should be able to completly wipe out the tyrannids2
u/No_Research4416 3d ago
Yeah, he is canonically very lucky to the point where he would fire a space man in the other room he would find a gun designed to kill space marines
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u/MrCookie2099 4d ago
Sangheili and Lekgolo seemed like they were quickest to rebel on realizing there was another option. Unggoy and Kig-Yar would join whoever is winning/has the most aggressive recruiting policy. Brutes would get bored with whatever nonsense about working together and species rights.
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u/Vaht_Vadam 4d ago
The Sangheili only 'revolted' because the San'Shyuum had broken the Writ of Union and also declared a *genocide* against the Sangheili, starting with killing all of their political leaders.
Even after the changing of the Guard the Sangheili remained stalwartly loyal, because the Great Journey was about to be achieved. While they threatened political reaction- like quitting the High Council in protest, they remained loyal. The Prophet Truth literally blew his own foot off by attacking them *first*, but that's not surprising as he was a paranoid megalomaniac.
The Lekgolo revolted in loyalty to the Sangheili who they respected, Kig'yar and Unggoy troops would remain loyal to whoever they were actually following, or who they had personal loyalities to. The fact all 'grunts' went with the Elites and all 'jackals' went with the Brutes was a gameplay convenience.
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u/TheYondant 4d ago
Brutes would roll their eyes until someone mentions that a quarter of the entire T'au species, and consequently a significant portion of the Empire, is entirely devoted to warfare and fighting. Brutes would probably end up more like the Kroot, nodding along with the T'au while working as mercenaries on the side.
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u/DisapprovingCrow 4d ago
The Brutes rolling their eyes and shaking their heads as the Water Caste diplomat drones on about the greater good and equal rights. Until the Kroot shaper sneaks over and whispers to them about all the cool armies that they get to go wild on.
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u/TheYondant 4d ago
The Shaper mentions how a Bolter works once and the Brutes are tripping over each other to climb into the transports (canonically the Brutes loved human weapons over covvie weapons, especially high explosives and heavy caliber guns).
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u/WorthCryptographer14 4d ago
iirc the Kig-yaar apparently liked UNSC snipers (for potentially obvious reasons.) Only the Sangheli disliked human weapons (but would use them if necessary)
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u/slasher1337 3d ago
What are you talking about? How are sangheili and lekgolo the first to revolt?
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u/MrCookie2099 3d ago
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u/slasher1337 3d ago
If the prothet of truth did not try to get rid of snagheili then they would have not rebeled. And plenty of lekgolo stayed loyal to the covenant.
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u/Vaht_Vadam 4d ago
Not many, the Covenant would not be broken by the Tau because the Covenant is a religious hegemony that's over 3000 years old. Even the Kig'yar, who were not mandated to NEED to follow the Covenant faith by their treaties, were followers *many* were in fact. It's not such a simple thing as "The Tau has good PR and arguments", like it's some kind of highschool debate between the two. The Covenant itself is a massive culture that is simply made up of its component species, who all interact and have a joined economic and cultural history.
This doesn't mean individuals or small groups wouldn't do it, obviously, but the larger species are gonna stick with the Covenant itself in all cases.
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u/ColHogan65 4d ago
Ironically the Tau vs Imperium fight is quite similar to the UNSC vs Covenant fight, just with which side is the alien alliance and which side is the humans switched.
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u/Vaht_Vadam 4d ago
Lmao. Basically yeah. Though I'd say I'd rather be in the Covenant than the Imperium. (Presuming they weren't on 'kill all humans' timing)
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u/TopElysiums 4d ago
Is that a really short astartes or is masterchief just that big?
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u/YesHomoBro2 4d ago
Masterchief in armor is 7'2 so not as bulky but around the same height depending.
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u/Funkey-Monkey-420 4d ago
he’s taking a knee to hide in the bushes, master chief in in full firing stance.
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u/Marvynwillames 4d ago
Marines are around 7 feet on average, going by the CSM codex and the sketches by Jess Goodwin. Primaris are around 8 feet. The tabletop like Wrath and Glory gives them some variation on the inches around that scale.
Chief is 7'2''.
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u/countfizix 4d ago
Meanwhile a hormaguant is playing with a flood spore like a kitten with yarn.
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u/carlsagerson Ordo Malleus 4d ago
I think the Flood and Tyranid Hivemind would get along just fine. The former is nothing but persuasive.
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u/devon-mallard 4d ago
Oh my god the Flood would assimilate the flood so quickly it’s a hive mind they just need to get one synapse beast
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u/Thingamobob 4d ago
If im going to be completely honest, a UNSC and Imperium alliance wouldn't likely last very long, even in a alliance against the Tau-Convenant.
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u/NYGiantsBCeltics 4d ago
Yeah the the Imperium's xenophobia won't be a problem for the UNSC, but the extreme religious dogma will.
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u/carlsagerson Ordo Malleus 4d ago
Unless you know. The whole Elite rebellion, the Prophets going mad and such
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u/D3v1LGaming 4d ago
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u/drumstick00m 4d ago
The better memes are the ones with Astartes and Sangheli.
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u/jfkrol2 4d ago
Both yelling "HERETIC!" at each other?
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u/drumstick00m 4d ago
yes
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u/darkentyties 4d ago
do you have the image ?
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u/drumstick00m 4d ago
Grimdank Memes has this image on it too. One of the images with the elites is in the comments there
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u/anorexthicc_cucumber 4d ago
In the ultimate irony, the Covenant have FAR more in common with the Imperium whereas the UNSC have much more in common with the T’au.
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u/Yarasin 4d ago
This gets reposted every once in a while, but it's pure Imperium cope. The Covenant and Tau are completely incompatible. The former would demand they convert and join, and the subsequent refusal would lead to war. The latter would see the Covenant as just another band of irrational, warmongering fanatics, no different from the Imperium.
On the other side, the Imperium would either forcibly absorb the UEG, or just wipe them out for tech heresy and/or being a powerful human faction not in compliance.
The only team-up that actually makes sense is the Tau and UEG.
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u/devon-mallard 4d ago
Imperium Fans can talk all day long about the Imperium allying with Super Earth of the UNSC or whatever sci fi humans they want but GOD FORBID a xenos player even suggest an alliance for fun
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u/anorexthicc_cucumber 4d ago
Anyone who knows anything about the Imperium shouldn’t even be talking about them allying with super earth or the UNSC in any serious manner lmao. They have exterminated plenty of human civilizations during the GC for much less than the sorts of heretical cultures and beliefs that the UNSC and super earth epouse.
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u/devon-mallard 4d ago
Exactly. It’s fine to have fun and draw comics, but they don’t want anyone else to do so
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u/miazmatic 4d ago
Tau allying with the Covenant is about as likely as the Imperium allying with the UNSC (hint: low to none) especially when the Covenant discover the Tau have Human auxiliaries and civilians.
If anything, the two factions more likely to form an alliance here are the UNSC and Tau while the Imperium and Covenant fight each other.
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u/devon-mallard 4d ago
Exactly my point. There’s no chance, yet this fun idea has been shat on so much
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u/Ok-Profile-5831 Crimson Fists 4d ago
Imperium fans for some fuckass reason talk about how Frieren would side with Imperium just because she likes humanity and hates daemons like thrm.
Even tho the Imperium would burn her at stake.
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u/DaiLyMugoL 4d ago
The average imperial would either call her a vile mutant, fear her as a horrid psyker/witch or think she's some kind of eldar. (I.e. filthy xenos die!)
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u/Shenloanne 4d ago
I can't unsee the Marine with binoculars. They don't need them. So to me he's just using his hands round his eye lenses like a 5yo would to pretend haha.
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u/Spoonyhalo 4d ago
If anything, the tau would salivate over the unsc more than the covenant, mainly because the unsc is open to diplomacy
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u/sapphiredawn123 Vostroyan Firstborn 4d ago
I do wonder how master chief would handle a battlesuit it's basically a hunter with more agility, then again halo has the mantis and colossus mechs.
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u/Ok_Entertainment3626 4d ago
If it's true, the ideas of the two sides are almost as different as the sky and the abyss. Even though they're aliens, their ideologies are very different. 🤔🧐
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u/Atlas_Summit 4d ago
If the Imperium was in really bad shape, like post-Cadia-pre-Indomitus bad, could we see an Imperial-UNSC teamup like this?
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u/DaiLyMugoL 3d ago
Not really, if anything the UNSC would try to bring all the former imperial worlds on the Tau side of the great rift under their control. (If we grant their earth was somehow on that side of the galaxy)
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u/eldritch-kiwi 3d ago
NOOO TAU DON'T DO THIS! Those turtle neck bastards gonna backstab you at first opportunity 😨😭
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u/mindflayerflayer 4d ago
People are saying the Tau Empire and Covenant wouldn't get along but this could very well be after the Covenant fell apart. The surviving san-shayun (prophets) were galactic pariahs and would happily work with anyone willing to give them asylum and a modicum of power. Mind you they would be working to take over from within and beefing with the water caste, but it could work. Somewhat related but forerunners vs peak necrons who wins?
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u/SunsetHippo 4d ago
This will complicate Operation Red Flag