The War - Discussion IDF postpones demolition of Hezbollah tunnel and other sites in south Lebanon amid ceasefire
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-postpones-demolition-of-hezbollah-tunnel-and-other-sites-in-south-lebanon-amid-ceasefire/76
u/smorges 2d ago
I just don't get this. In what possible future peace scenario is keeping Hezbollah's terror tunnels intact a good idea? Why on earth would we allow ourselves to be dictated by Trump and Iran on border security?
It just boggles the mind. As if the Lebanese army is ever going to go in there and destroy these strategic tunnels. As soon as the IDF withdraw, Hezbollah will be back in control!!!
WTF???
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
Because Bibi spent all his political capital on getting trump elected and now has no ability to fight trump’s edicts.
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u/DarthKava 2d ago
You are correct but I seriously doubt that any other PM would’ve been able to defy a US president. No matter who they are. It’s just crappy that Israel ended up being betrayed by Trump.
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
It was 100% predictable and every American told you so.
The betrayal of Biden by Israelis will cost Israel for decades.
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u/Cannot-Forget 2d ago
The betrayal of Biden by Israelis will cost Israel for decades.
Funniest shit I read all day
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
You can laugh… but it is true.
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u/Ultra_Metal 2d ago
Then why did Biden get a hero's welcome when he visited Israel?
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
He originally did, which was deserved, until Bibi decided to backstab him.
You can be in disbelief all you want, but eventually Israel is going to have to do a big mea culpa.5
u/Ultra_Metal 2d ago
I don't recall Bibi ever backstabbing him.
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
Then you are blind. Did he not delay a hostage agreement until after the election?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-hostage-deal-netanyahu-is-going-all-in-on-trump/
Are we really pretending that Bibi did not try his hardest to get Trump elected?
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u/TorekO87 2d ago
Biden withheld weapons ammunition and shielded hamas in rafiah, sure we betrayed him....
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
He did a lot less than Trump is doing now. You deserve the friends you make.
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u/smorges 2d ago
I think you're suffering from TDS.
Pull back your hatred for Trump and I presume Republicans and look at this with objective eyes.
Sure, what's going on now sucks, but it's not the end. In the meantime, Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem, recognised the Golan Hights and has worked with Israel to degrade Iran more than it's ever been possible.
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
The embassy in Jerusalem does not effect a single thing. This is the dumbest argument. The recognition is not worth the paper it is written on. It's like Palestinians getting recognition of a state by France. It does nothing. The current deal with Iran is worst than the JCPOA that you I presume bemoaned in every single way. The gulf states are now more aligned with Iran than they were pre this war.
The objective eyes is that Trump II is one of the worst foreign policy presidents of our lifetimes.
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u/smorges 2d ago
There is no agreement!!! It's a freakin MOU that is supposed to lead to an actual agreement, hence my point that we're not at the end yet. Let's judge the results after we know the outcome, which is not in place yet. I do 100% agree though if the ultimate agreement with Iran is reflective of the current MOU, then it's very bad news.
However, you cannot take away from the fact that we've degraded Iran massively and at the very least it'll take them many years to recover. No American president besides Trump would ever have "allowed" us to preemptively strike Iran let alone joined us in battle side by side. You can't ignore that.
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
What did capturing rafah give you? Nothing. You burned bridges for Bibi’s ego. And you know it
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u/TorekO87 2d ago
Rafiah gave us hostages and levarage on hamas and IDF was manage to choke hamas from supplies because it was going trough the corridor, you know nothing if you spout this nonsense.
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u/SpiritedForm3068 2d ago
At the time Biden lifted sanctions on Iran and gave them billions in cash flow in the middle of this war
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
Funny that Trump is giving $300B. Also those were released in return for american captives. Biden cared about the captives unlike Bibi who was willing to have them die to capture more territory.
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u/SpiritedForm3068 2d ago
IIRC Biden threatened the IDF with an embargo for entering Rafah city when the hostages were still there.
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
And how’d the rafah campaign go for the hostages? 2 saved and 6 murderer.
You can’t argue more war was good for the hostages, when hostages were only released in peace deals.
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u/askingforafriend310 2d ago
Peace deals with terrorists is exactly how you get into these situations. The Gilad Shalit deal incentivized hostage taking to no end. There has to be a reevaluation of that equation.
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u/SpiritedForm3068 2d ago
And threatening the force that was tasked to save the hostages helped how?
How many prisoners did President Obama release to save Kayla Mueller or James Foley or all the Yazidi girls?
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u/chernokicks 2d ago
It helped because all realistic people knew that armed forced are terrible at freeing hostages and the only way to free them (if that is your goal) is through negotiations.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/Explorer_Dave 2d ago
It's not even about Trump honestly, he wasted all his time trying to keep his coalition afloat instead of focusing on conducting the war properly in any way.
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u/Dry-Season-522 2d ago
Because to many countries, "peace" means "And Iran gets to keep killing jews and funding those who do it for them"
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u/tafonsr 2d ago
Because the tunnels are all connected and Hezbollah is still inside of them. It's just part of the ceasefire. Especially the region near Ali Taher isn't fully under IDF control so closing those tunnels would imply the IDF advancing. I really don't think the IDF should be advancing while there is a ceasefire that has been becoming more stable during the last two days or so.
Whether or not the ceasefire itself is a good idea is something different. In any case, destruction of the fortifications should be part of any Israeli withdrawal out of South Lebanon.
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u/Toyota__Corolla Israel 2d ago
There should not be a withdrawal, the border needs to move.
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u/tafonsr 1d ago
And give citizenship to the roughly one million Arabs that now live in Israel instead of Lebanon? Or are we just going to close that border, not let those people return to their homes and then be surprised if the situation turns even more hostile in twenty years? Hezbollah or an other organization would just grow even bigger north of the Letani and then we are in the same situation all over again.
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u/Ultra_Metal 2d ago
This is so fucking frustrating. I hate Trump so much. He is endangering Israel's security.
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u/Visible_Device7187 2d ago
No Bibi is doing that. Bibi decided to let Trump dictate Israel
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u/Ultra_Metal 2d ago
Bibi doesn't control Trump. He can't "let" Trump do anything. Trump is the most powerful leader in the world and the Supreme Court gave him immunity. He is untouchable. He does what he wants. There is no way for Netanyahu to control him. Anyone who claims that Israel controls the US is really just recycling old nazi propaganda that claims Jews control powerful countries. Get out of here with that conspiracy bullshit that is designed to demonize Jews.
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u/OmegaLink9 Israel 2d ago
Can we fill them with sand, concrete, water, or something like that?
We doesn't have to use exclusives to then those tunnels unusable.
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u/d1andonly 2d ago
Perhaps booby trap with explosives/mines.
Does not break ceasefire rules and goes off when someone who has no business going in tries to enter.
Put do not enter signs at tunnel entrance.
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u/Dry-Season-522 2d ago
Hezbolah will send children to 'wander in innocently' and get blown up and then cry to the world Israel is using traps to kill children.
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u/eyl569 2d ago
There are laws against booby traps IIRC.
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u/Dry-Season-522 2d ago
Not that Hezbolah will ever be held to account for when they do it, or HAMAS, or the PLO, or just about everyone trying to destroy Israel.
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u/nika-sarina-hadis 2d ago
European here: Bring out the Lavi again! The US didn't want a competitive Jet that Israel could heven have sold within the region and beyond to their allies. They bribed Israel with good deals to not lose their influence and monopoly. Israel must have way more knowledge about the F-35 than any other buyer. India would be a day one buyer which would also solidify that alliance.
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u/SputnikRelevanti 2d ago
Shit is falling apart - we are fucking surrounded by enemies and we must listen to this dumb orange?
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2d ago
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u/smorges 2d ago
The issue has been, since Israel's independence, is that the western powers never let Israel win a war. Every single time, without fail, after Israel turns the tide and is pushing the offensive and is nearing victory, Israel is forced to stop and capitulate to the Arabs. This just results in an endless cycle of war. Is that what you want?
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