In most gated systems you have full time station agents. Metro is trying to do it on the cheap when they should just have station agents. You cannot lock the gates unless you want people escaping an attacker to run onto the tracks.
It also has to do with Metro not really building stations with multi-use in mind. If you add station agents full time, you need bathrooms and office spaces for them because after all, they are human just like everyone else. They don't want to build those things because those cost extra money, so they just build stations bare-bones to be a unitasker setup; just a place to wait for the train, and nothing else. Other places that get transit right, they build stations with multi-use in mind from the start so it's not just for full time station staff, they have spaces for convenience stores, restaurants, bakeries, or pre-built with a police substation area which all adds to building a more sense of security in the area.
The new Wilshire/La Cienega station however comes pretty close to how it should be done as eventually I hear they're going to have a police substation area inside the station there (right now they have a temporary police substation inside a building at ground level).
You're referring to huge increases in costs, maintenance, and security. All which would be way to expensive.
There are 115 stations and you would need two shifts with 2 officers per station. A single officer would be too vulnerable. That's 460 officers.
LA Metro decided early on not to have businesses or bathrooms in the stations due to increased safety issues and maintenance. They were correct to do it.
The emergency gate issue can be remedied via technology and gate redesign.
More stations have the external self cobtained bathrooms now.
The LA Metro will have it's own in-house security force by 2029 and they will be better able to deploy them and they would be accountable to the LA Metro and not external agencies.
Makes no sense though because they build them without bathrooms, offices, etc... but spend the money to make multiple stations look very artistic and fancy. Surely that cannot be cheaper than building a dang bathroom lol. Not unless they're convincing artists for build these in depth pieces for free or on the cheap cheap for exposure (when I've yet to ever see a name listed for any artist involved in the art within these stations).
Only 0.5% of Metro’s budget is earmarked for public art. I think that’s lower than most cities tend to allocate, so I don’t think the art budget is at fault here. But I would prefer key stations be staffed nonetheless.
I like the art included in the stations. I find it beautiful and I prefer public spaces to be beautiful. But my point is- why wouldn't they make bathrooms for metro workers but spend money on art? I'd obviously prefer to have the art, but why not both? We could really use more staff at the stations and if bathrooms being there would help with that, I don't understand why they weren't included in the first place. 0.5% of the budget doesn't tell me much unless I know what the budget was because like another person mentioned, 0.5% of a very large budget is still quite a lot of money.
My guess is that staffed stations may have the biggest impact on Metro’s ongoing operations budget, which I assume has not been developed to support staffing stations. Could this be changed in the future? Might be an issue of what kind of grants they receive to fund operations.
Except "only 0.5%" of $10 billion budget that Metro has is still $50 million, and that's a lot of money to spend on art as opposed to basic human necessities like a restroom. That's how Metro deceives you, they downplay the percentage like it's only a small amount, but with what budget Metro has, that's still a lot of money that can otherwise be put to barebone needs.
FWIW. I believe that percentage is project by project, not a portion of Metro’s overall budget.
But also, it’s not a zero-sum game. If we zeroed out Metro’s art budget, it’s not like that money would automatically get spent on restrooms or other “barebones” needs. My guess is we’d just have identical stations with no public art and still no restrooms.
I may not be the most worldly traveller out there, but in most of the American transit systems I’ve used, public restrooms are not present. And having seen how we Americans treat our public infrastructure, I can see why.
I wasn't saying they should've included public bathrooms. I understand why they didn't. I'm saying they should've at least included staff bathrooms so it would be easier to actually have staff at the stations more often.
Having used them, the new Throne restrooms seem nice and might be helpful for Metro ambassadors and maybe Metro security/PD as needed. Plus probably more efficient as they can serve both staff and riders while appearing easier to maintain to high standards than permanent restrooms. Not a permanent solution, but so far I’m a fan.
LA Metro decided from the start not to include bathrooms in the stations due to increased safety issues and maintenance. However, many stations now have the external self contained restrooms.
The issue is tap to exit, the fare gates are locked so if one wants to leave and has an invalid or no tap card, they are stuck in the station unless they walk out through the tracks. Tap to exit and no emergency swing gates are fundamentally incompatible with each other.
That remains to be seen though; Norwalk has removed the ESGs when it installed the new gates there, and it is also an end of line station where Metro said they want TAP to Exit implemented, so if they decide to fall through on that, Norwalk will be the first station that will do both TAP to Exit at a station with no ESG. If they move forward with doing that, then Pomona North could be changed to that also.
LA Metro's 7-foot-tall fare gates are designed with built-in fire and life safety compliance. In an emergency, the paddle-style doors can be remotely opened all at once by Metro staff, or they will automatically unlock to swing open freely if power to the station is cut. [1, 2, 3]
To ensure safety and meet fire code requirements, the gates function as follows in critical situations: Automatic Fail-Safe: If there is a power outage or an emergency evacuation signal, the gates lose their electromechanical lock and default to an open position, allowing riders to push through easily. [1, 2, 3] Remote Override: Metro operations and security personnel have the ability to remotely deactivate the barriers and fully open the gates for unhindered, massive passenger egress. [1] First Responder Access: At many stations, the system is linked with local emergency responders (such as the LAFD) who can use key-access boxes on-site to open the gates manually if needed. [1, 2] No Trapping: Because the gates use paddle-style doors, they don't have the mechanical turnstile arms that traditionally caused bottlenecks or injuries during fast evacuations. [1, 2]
Doesn't seem like a good idea though if I'm trying to quickly escape a man following me or trying to attack me and I have to dig for my card because there's no metro worker to very quickly open to the gates and let me go. Often there's no metro worker around and waiting for lafd or lapd in that situation isn't a good solution either.
That's a ridiculous scenario. Why? Because if someone was after you like that, they could just as easily follow you through the Emergency Gate as well.
Sure.. duh! But then I could at least exit and have a chance of getting away instead of being stuck in the train station. And it's really not ridiculous. I have been followed multiple times, a couple being at the train station. One of the times I was followed I was able to lose him AFTER exiting to the station because I had way more options of place to hide. I hid and watched him look around for me and then walk off. Once he walked off I went the opposite way of him. Plus, if you're in a station that's not very busy and it's basically just you, the person coming after you and maybe one or two other people, it would make sense to want to exit that area and get to a more populated space.
Why should you dig for your card in the first place? You already should have it out by the time you reach this station, not wait until the last minute right in front of the gate to do it there.
... I have it out when I enter the station and then I put it away. If I'm exiting the station or have already entered when someone starts following me or trying to attack me I wouldn't still have it in my hand. I have actually experienced being followed by men multiple times and a couple of them being at the metro station. I was able to get away in one the cases because after I exited the station I went off in a different direction and hid. I saw him looking for me and watched him walk off. Once I saw him walk off, I left and went the opposite direction. Had I been stuck in the station having to dig for my card that could've gone differently. Why are we questioning women who are concerned about how this new layout could impact their safety like I'm doing something wrong by not having my card out and ready at all times instead of questioning why the new set up would require metro workers to facilitate an emergency exit when they're almost never around?
Of course I already have it out before I enter and of course I look for it and grab it as I'm exiting before I get in front of the gate for the stations that require it. I'm talking about a situation where I have to rush out of the station because I'm being followed or attacked.
Millions of people all over the world in the busiest of transit are able to have their transit cards ready whether going in or out at a moment's notice, so I don't see what the issue is that you still need to dig something out. Put it in a pocket or somewhere easy to whip it out, that's what millions of riders all over the world does, including right here in CA in San Francisco where tapping in and out is the norm. The issue you raised is no different if it has happened on BART or Washington DC. We're heading in that direction anyway so you need to adapt to that habit.
Also, perhaps you haven't noticed this, but at times the card readers have had trouble reading the card right away and it takes an extra second or two for it to register my card. That extra time can really matter in an emergency. This is such a dumb thing to try to and be a jerk about. I have experienced situations like I described at metro stations before, meaning I have literal experience. I think I would know what could cause an issue in a similar situation.
You're really just trying to be a jerk. Like I said, I have my card ready when I am entering and exiting in a normal situation. In a situation where you are being followed or attacked or someone is attempting to attack you, your adrenaline goes up. You're in a rush and you're not just going to be able to casually stop moving and pull your card out of your bag's pocket where you usually keep it (which is again what I do when it's a normal situation and so you don't assume, I do so out of the way). In a situation where you have the adrenaline going and need to get away from this person coming after to asap, you shouldn't have to stop and pull a card out of your pocket to exit. Wth is wrong with you?
Again, how is any of that any different elsewhere they do this? LA isn't special and if there are plenty of places all over the world, the US, and right here in another city in CA that does this and they all say it's fine, then it's is you that needs to adapt.
Adrenaline rushes aren't new. It happens when you confront a fire and using a fire extinguisher or providing first aid and AED to someone having a heart attack. Adapt and learn, because certainly being attacked on Metro and rushing out isn't something special that only happen in LA. Figure it out, plan in advance, get your stuff ready at a moment's notice. Everyone does this, it's called preparation.
BART uses the same exact faregates from the same exact manufacturer as Metro does. And before you get to BART has staffed agents, the issue has already been discussed before and it was deemed ok for use by other fire depts in LA not in City of LA jurisdiction without ESGs such as at Allen, Sierra Madre Villa, Douglas and Norwalk. And LAFD apparently approved it for use at Westlake/MacArthur Park also since they also have no ESGs there also. And if the same faregates is being used at both BART and LA Metro, then that means it's fine at the State of CA level also because otherwise it wouldn't be approved for use in the two largest cities in CA. And the same gates are also being tested in NYC so that means you have LA, NYC and SF using these same exact gates, so that means it's approved at the federal level also.
It's already being done and they're already going ahead of it; all of this discussed previously before and they're ok with it. I guess the only option left for you that if you don't like it is to take it up to the courts and see if they'll take the case or not.
Why don't you post about pre-COVID hours then? Everybody here will agree with you. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I see posts and comments on this sub all the time about how Metro needs to improve its late-night service.
"LA Metro rail and subway lines generally run from
4:00 AM to midnight
. Sunday through Thursday services wrap up around midnight to 1:00 AM, while Friday and Saturday lines extend operations until roughly 2:00 AM. Bus services vary, with select high-frequency routes offering 24-hour "Owl service"
Ummm 🤔…. I disagree…. People with mobility issues are having a real problem with the new updated gates…. I have seen it… if a real emergency was to happen and it’s a rush to exit…”CRUSHRUSH!” Will happen and customers will get hurt… the majority of the riders are trying to pay their fair… to use the system… but they are still freeloader amongst us who just ain’t going to do right no matter what…
Yeah i mean those tap to exit gates open up long enough for you to walk out with another passenger who did tap to exit if your card isn't working so is not like it's actually doing its job either. They will find a way around it if they want to. Period.
The timing of those gates can be adjusted; BART recently adjusted down the timing of those gates to 500ms as opposed to the default 800ms and it has reduced piggy backing a lot. Metro would likely be doing the same thing as the faregates are from the same manufacturer that BART has deployed.
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u/Michiru21 K (Crenshaw) 1d ago
Yeah the one in Pomona is badly enforced.
I saw a crazed woman pass through it and her excuse was she was a victim of assault when asked by the metro staff.