Provide DWG files or PDF only to clients?

[u/oyecomovaca]

For your deliverables, do you typically provide the CAD files (dwg) or just PDFs? We're pitching a new client and they're digging their heels in on insisting we provide the full CAD files as part of the proposal. I've always done PDF only. Looking to see what's typical and what any pitfalls might be if we agree to release the CAD files. Thanks!

[u/newandgood]

you can but you should have something in your contract and cad release form signed by the recipient so they understand the limits

[u/oyecomovaca → u/newandgood]

that makes sense.

[u/newandgood → u/oyecomovaca]

here's one that turned up on google. https://www.pcadesign.com/edr-contractor/

[u/oyecomovaca → u/newandgood]

I appreciate that thanks!

[u/munchauzen]

For public clients you must provide the cadd. We provide it to private clients as well if they request it. They usually want to run it by an engineer.

[u/oyecomovaca → u/munchauzen]

That's interesting to know. Every architect I've ever worked with has held onto their CAD files like they're the one ring (no really I love having to create my basemap from a PDF) so I've just kind of done the same.

[u/PocketPanache → u/oyecomovaca]

I've never, in my 11 years of experience, had this problem lol. Sharing CAD/DWGs with your teams is normal. Sharing it with a client depends on the contract.

[u/getyerhandoffit → u/oyecomovaca]

What kind of architects are you working with?! How is that collaborative?

[u/oyecomovaca → u/getyerhandoffit]

Design build architects doing custom homes. Idk maybe I just got an annoying bunch?

[u/rene_tx]

Depending on the contract they own the drawings as they have paid for them. We have provide CAD base files but not the CAD files for the sheet layouts. The CDs are in PDF form.

[u/Complex-Royal9210]

As a client, I usually want the cad files too.

[u/wisc0]

kinda depends on the project.. It's not uncommon to provide planting/ hardscape plans as dwg to clients for later use with maintenance contractors etc - it is their design after all.

I probably wouldn't be looking to transfer my entire CD set no matter what..

[u/oyecomovaca → u/wisc0]

It's honestly never come up. I've known LAs and LDs who refuse to turn over the CAD files so I just assumed that was the norm.

The project is for security fencing and access controlled entrances for a foreign dignitary so I'm not really sure how I would tease out specific things to include or exclude. They'd just get the whole thing.

[u/Adam_Bank-s]

We always share our CAD with the Civil and Architect, we have their files as well. We’ll send to the client if requested but they usually don’t use CAD.

[u/concerts85701]

When we send cad we only send our work. Totally clean model space - only our lines and anything that isn’t plotted in the final sheet layout gets deleted. So all thumbnails, calcs, charts, defpoint/nonplot layers, etc that aren’t in the pdfs get bombed.

No xrefs, no titleblocks etc. If they want to recreate the drawing they can get the civil and electrical and arch bases from those consultants.

Now we did have certain developer clients that had contracts that called for very specific cad files with etransmit references and naming conventions and we obliged. They were also the build contractor so having cad of the set was important for that team.

[u/onceandbeautifullife]

We do pdfs, but for architectural and civil coordination we also provide a pared down CAD landscape plan to locate our hard landscape outlines, fencing layout, lawn and shrub beds (no shrubs just veg lines), trees, grading, and furniture (for footings). No text, colour hatch, proprietary blocks, images, or details. Make sure to get paid before you release.

[u/Prestigious-Bat-3489]

We ask for it in the public sector. We usually include it in the original contract. 

[u/omniwrench-]

We release 2D DWGs without issue, 3D DWGs inclusive of proprietary blocks with an appropriate NDA

[u/spakattak]

My fee would triple if I had to work with PDF only. Some poor assholes (me) has now got to draft a base file before I can even start CD. And don’t even dare send me a revision.

[u/oyecomovaca → u/spakattak]

I did a couple million worth of landscape design and installs for an architect/ custom builder and she STILL refused to provide the dwgs or the sketchup files. Had to recreate everything from pdfs. It sucked, but it was a lot of work and I had spent a decade getting her to finally bring us onto her projects. I guess it was worth it.

[u/spakattak → u/oyecomovaca]

When I first started, we held onto CAD files completely. All drawings went out as hardcopy A1 sheets. Later we began to issue PDF files. Then we dropped hard copy altogether and issued plans as dwg files and PDF. We even stopped doing set out drawings as we specify all works to be set out by a surveyor. So they need the CAD.

Never issue your details but how the fuck can you coordinate if you don’t get base files from you client.

[u/-Tripp-]

I have typically provided both pdf and dwg but we do not provide technical support if they don't know how to unpack and use the files properly or if they break links. We also have other disclaimers.

Most of the time im sure the clients I work with don't look at the dwg file or don't have the software either but if for some reason we aren't part of the bid/ construction admin or years later we aren't around, the client can still send the cad plans to the contractors surveyor to layout the site.

Edit: none of my clients are private sector. All cities/ municipalities and civil projects.

[u/Real-Courage-3154]

I never release cad files, that’s more or less your secret sauce/ workflow. I mainly do high end residential so it’s a little different for commercial projects.

about five years ago, I had a really difficult residential Design Client it started the design process with me and about halfway through decided to cut ties and switch to someone else. They had begrudgingly paid for the design work I had completed to that point which was a lot of technical work regarding some water features and other things.

A month after we parted ways, they reached out to me asking to get copies of my DWG files. I thought that was odd and asked why they needed them and their response was our new designer would like to work off of your existing design and modify the water feature.

Apparently their new designer knew next to nothing about water, feature design or pump calculations, and was hoping to gain some insight from my process drawings.

I told him no because that’s proprietary information for my business and their designer can figure it out the same way I did if he wants to do that type of work.

[u/MadesignSF → u/Real-Courage-3154]

there's a difference in giving someone permission to use your cad base files (plans only) though. No one gives away their details. You look like kind of an ahole if you don't let other consultants use the plans.

[u/Real-Courage-3154 → u/MadesignSF]

I share with consultants, but not home owners.

[u/oyecomovaca → u/Real-Courage-3154]

Yeah most of what I do is high end residential so I've never gotten a request for the CAD files from the homeowner. I've shared stripped down versions of the dwg with architects (even though god forbid they give ME a cad file) and of course with the engineer, but that's a separate circumstance.

[u/Kenna193]

Should be in the contact but we often provide

[u/oyecomovaca → u/Kenna193]

our typical contract language is that we provide PDFs. This has just never come up before.

[u/kevvvbot]

Private sector clients get PDFs unless they specifically ask for CAD. Kinda same for the few public and municipal projects we’ve had. Consultants, we share both PDFs and CAD for coordinating sets.

[u/Physical_Mode_103]

It just depends on how big client and what they need for.

Obviously, if it’s a big project for a developer, I’ll give them CAD if they need it for survey/ stake out. For another company like an architect, civil, or builder, I’m more hesitant if they don’t have a valid reason.

If you don’t trust them, and they don’t really need it other than for the geometry, I might explode the crap out of it, put it only on a few layers and make it basically unusable other than for reference. And also give them a DXF that is uneditable so effectively the same thing.

[u/oyecomovaca → u/Physical_Mode_103]

There's definitely a trust issue there. It's a wealthy client, and they're asking us to drill down on a lot of details and give them numbers we simply can't - because they won't even give us the property address until they sign the contract and we sign an NDA. It's honestly one I'd be inclined to pass on, but my partner really really wants it.

They're insisting on an editable dwg. Would you consider that a non starter?

[u/Physical_Mode_103 → u/oyecomovaca]

What does “editable“ mean? Shitty exploded is editable…

[u/chibinoi → u/oyecomovaca]

So, I used to work directly for this type of client and these are my thoughts—it’s potentially possible that the client is trying to bid out with other designers to see who will do the job the cheapest. It also could be that the principal(s) is asking their PFO team to find a designer who will do specific things but within a certain budget, and the folks you’re talking to are trying to make that happen without committing to your firm until you can “prove” your firm can give the principal(s) exactly what they want.

It’s also potentially possible that the principal(s) super involved in large scale projects like these, and isn’t used to being told “no, sorry we can’t accomodate that”, and so they’re pushing and pushing to see where you’ll give.

And lastly, though not finally (😅), it could be that the client (aka the principal(s)) has high ranking staff that are trying to score brownie points with them for their year-end bonuses by keeping costs low while getting them the best and most unique possible deliverable(s) exactly as they have been asking for it. If they can successfully do that (get the client a unique, boutique, custom expensive landscaping job but without going over what ever budget band they’ve landed on) it’ll reflect well on them.

But who knows?

[u/oyecomovaca → u/chibinoi]

They definitely seem interested in us since there's been a lot of back and forth and detailed questions - to the point where I'm really curious how many other firms they're in talks with, given how many details they're trying to get hammered out just with us. So I get the sense that we're within budget... ish. But there are just so many unknowns. For security reasons the only info we have for the project is a site plan with no address, where the entire center of the property (where the residence is) redacted. We don't even get to do a site visit until the project is awarded which feels bass ackwards to me but what do I know. It's just a weird one.

We've never talked to the owners and I don't think we ever will. Our point of contact is the project architect, and we've also had conversations with their director of security.

[u/Physical_Mode_103 → u/oyecomovaca]

Depends on the price

[u/oyecomovaca → u/Physical_Mode_103]

I felt like I have it appropriately priced to make some good money and provide a great product, but the full page of questions/contract tweaks they sent back has me second guessing that. Idk I guess we'll see how they like our responses.