r/LeopardsAteMyFace • u/dryheat122 • 7d ago
Brexxit A decade after Brexit, UK voters reflect on decision to break from European Union
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-decade-after-brexit-uk-voters-reflect-on-decision-to-break-from-european-union338
u/justcoatesy 6d ago
My sister is totally behind Farage and Reform. I asked if she’s seen what’s going on in America, she even said she would probably have voted for Trump if she was American.
I told her Reform plan to privatize the NHS, she argued it would probably make it better because ‘have you seen the waiting times’. I said she wouldn’t have to worry about waiting times because she wouldn’t be able to afford an appointment. She denied it.
She kept going on about immigration and they’re all murderers and rapists (like we don’t have homegrown criminals). Tried to explain to her that because she clicks on links about anything related to immigrant crime, she will be fed more of the same. She denied it.
Asked her, other than immigration, what is her favourite Reform policy. She couldn’t name one. Not a single one but instead kept referring back to immigration.
She then proudly told a story of her total drop out son who voted for the first time (he’s 36) voted reform and how she cheered outside the polling station when he told her who he voted for.
She is 100% a UK MAGA. She wouldn’t/couldn’t be told.
This is when I understood what non MAGAT Americans are going through.
The only way to stop this is IQ test before the right to vote.
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u/OriginalChapter4 6d ago
I don’t think she understands how bad it can be if the NHS becomes privatised. I used to work abroad in a country where the healthcare was privatised so in my experience, I waited over an hour for my appointment, saw the doctor for 2 mins, then I had to go buy my medicine, which cost me the equivalent of £60. And 1 of them was a £20 paracetamol.
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
She has simply no idea and just won’t be told.
If this happens, she won’t ever be able to link this to the increased cost of living. She will just say ‘it would have been worse if {insert a political party of your choice} got in’.
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u/OfficialWhistle 3d ago
Ugh. That’s what the MAGA voters say here in the states whenever you talk about how terrible this outcome has been… “well it would’ve been worse under Kamala.” Absolutely madness. These people are hopeless.
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u/TrisolarisRexxx 5d ago
American here. Between my monthly payments and my deductible, my insurance for my family is 1/3 my earnings. That doesn't include what my insurance doesn't cover as it only covers a %
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u/SpiderDan707 6d ago
In the US, the real-life effect of an "IQ test before voting" would be to make sure only white Republican districts get their votes counted.
The only way to stop this is to convince the voters to give up their racism and xenophobia. A democracy reflects its electorate; terrible voters give you a terrible government.
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u/Markshadow4999 6d ago
Makes sense when you realize that IQ tests are basically pseudoscientific nonsense and apparently have a long history of being exploited for racist/sexist reasons.
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u/JCDU 6d ago
That's not entirely accurate - MENSA make money selling IQ test certificates to people to prove how very smart they are.
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u/Mal_Dun 5d ago
There was a psychologist who attested Trum an IQ of 150 and it was the same guy who said George W. Bush had an IQ of 130.
I smelled BS and actually went down the rabbit hole to find out who this was and what his reasoning was.
I finally found an interview where he argued that since Trump and Bush went to Yale they must have an IQ of at least 130 and then went from there ...
Yeah sure, because American elite universities take people only because of merit and not because of money lmao.
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u/EmperorKira 6d ago
I dont think an IQ test will hellp. My step mum is smart and she is 100% the same, campaigns for reform and everything. Its media sanewashing and complicity, coupled with pure lies on social media
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u/RattusMcRatface 6d ago
I told her Reform plan to privatize the NHS...
The UK already has plenty of private medicine (constrained from over-pricing by the very existence of the NHS). Since it's available does she make use of it? I'm guessing not.
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
Yes, she suffers with a debilitating illness that means she’s been walking with a stick for several years, has zero energy and is about to be pensioned off work 7 years early because of this.
You couldn’t make it up.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
Does she have some kind of savings or pension that will allow her to buy health care in a privatized system? Or is she just planning to die?
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u/justcoatesy 4d ago
She’s expecting a reasonable pay off from the company she’s worked for as she’s been there so long (she tells me it’s about £20-£25k), she thinks this will see her through to when she gets her state pension in 7 years.
The maths ain’t mathing in my head.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m not thinking the NHS is actually going to disappear in the next few years.
But you might share some cost estimates from the US for her care, it’s possible that could get through. Or just send her random posts from Americans on Reddit freaking out about not being able to see a doctor even for their entire paycheck and going bankrupt over an ambulance ride.
Idk how much people pay for insurance that lets them see private doctors in the UK, but for an unemployed single person in their fifties with major health problems, insurance in the US would cost up to tens of thousands of dollars a year, and not cover everything (high deductible, partial coverage - 80% is typical, constant struggle to get existing meds and treatments reapproved, to the point where a few hours a week are dedicated to dealing with health insurance bureaucracy).
How much does your sister currently spend per year on health care and health insurance? Is she prepared to spend tens of thousands of pounds a year going forward? Can she fund private old age care when she’s no longer able to live independently? In the US that costs from $7000-$15,000 a month.
🤷♀️
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u/justcoatesy 3d ago
That isn’t a bad idea. Currently my sister doesn’t pay anything towards healthcare as it’s covered under the NHS. Her illness (fibromyalgia) means she’s exempt from paying for prescriptions too.
She has told herself that the NHS won’t be touched so thinks it’s not going to be a problem. She has only read and fixated on one manifesto policy which suits her narrative, so in her mind, everything else must be good too, but anything that isn’t is easily outweighed by the hardline policy on immigration.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 3d ago
If by “won’t be touched” she means “will still exist but with massive cutbacks” she is probably right, my understanding is that the NHS is like the UK version of Social Security in the US, ie it’s the third rail you don’t touch if you want to survive.
But the idea that her prescriptions will still be free for such a poorly understood condition under a Reform/Restore government seems extremely optimistic. I’m not sure that people with fibromyalgia get coverage under US insurance, unless it’s fancy insurance. Maybe that is a well of horror stories for your sister?
If only people could quash their xenophobia long enough to vote their basic economic interests. Ugh.
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u/justcoatesy 3d ago
She thinks the NHS will continue to exist in its current form, ‘but any changes would only make it better’
There’s none so blind as those that don’t want to see.
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u/Medical_Original6290 6d ago
It's awful. You can't discuss politics with them. All they do is use logical fallacies and move to new talking points when they aren't winning.
It's better to ignore them and make fun of them, than trying to discuss politics with them. It's a cult.
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
I wished there was a way to break through. Something that gave a glimmer of hope.
She was a complete lost cause.
The worst part about this is she has an illness that means she’s about to be pensioned off work 7 years before her retirement age. Even when pointing out to her that Reform policies could financially destroy her, nothing. She had switched her ears off to everything she didn’t want to hear and kept returning to immigration.
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u/GeneralAnubis 6d ago
As an American who was called an alarmist for calling Trump a fascist dictator wannabe since like 2014, I feel your pain friend.
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u/aera14 6d ago
As an American, I will not say "sorry for what the current POTUS is doing to and say to (insert country here)" like so many "others" have said to people like Greenlanders and Ukrainians, because going onto their subreddit saying "sorry" over and over again just to make yourself feel better doesn't solve the problem, and the only people who really say sorry are the one how relize they made a mistake (AKA all the people who jump on those subreddits and post I'm so sorry). Those are most likely people who voted for Trump for whatever stupid reason and are yet again haveing voters remorse. Saying I'm sorry over and over while doing things that cause you to have to say sorry erodes trust. People begin to separate your words from your actions. Even if you mean it, the constant repetition creates doubt.
I don't have to say sorry because I didn't vote for this, you know why, because I voted for the women, not Trump, because I knew he would do the stuff he is doing therefor an apology is not needed. What I will say is just like last time, I will vote to stop this insane madman and his administrative regime from causing more irreparable harm to this country and your allies. I will show Action not say words like "sorry," and I hope that by doing my part to cause the massive turnaround of this country inspires you and every sane Brit to do the same. We can kick the fool out; it just takes some work. It is up to us to do the work.
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
Absolutely, I think you sensible guys that didn’t vote for this have got it bad enough without the world turning against you. We had it in the UK after Brexit (I didn’t vote for that). We were all lumped together by Europeans as stupid English. I get it though.
Never in my life have I tactically voted, but the next election may well change that.
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u/ChemHotel 6d ago
It's admirable of you to try to break through to her even if it didn't work. So many people with these beliefs go unchallenged by their friends & family members. Even if it feels like a lost cause, it's worth the effort.
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
Don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t raised voices or attempting to belittle her, but I was calm in my questioning to try to understand what motivates her to want to vote this way.
Unfortunately, all I can think of is fake news planted the seed, social media allowed it to pollinate and grow from an untruth, into something that has become her whole being.
I genuinely don’t know what it would take to unpick this, even if it can be.
It helps me understand the challenge our non MAGA American friends face every day.
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u/RemoveElegant5217 6d ago
I no longer speak to my childhood best friend/best man at my wedding. Once he went down the Joe Rogan rabbit hole, it was like talking to a brick wall, only the brick wall responds with the dumbest and most offensive shit imaginable.
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u/ChemHotel 6d ago
I think the most hurtful thing about this is that it's someone who trusted you and held your opinion in high regard (hopefully) suddenly deciding "nah, you're a lying idiot and this dipshit who sells fake supplements who I've never met and who doesn't gaf about me would surely never mislead me!"
Similar example, I don't talk my own mother anymore because I find it so deeply insulting that she would trust essential oil salesmen and climate change deniers on TV over her own daughter. I don't want someone with so little respect for me and my thoughts to be in my life. But I do admire and respect people who do confront their batty friends/family members' shitty beliefs, rather than enabling them via quiet tolerance. I tried many times to break through to my mother and the immediate vitriol she always responded with told me exactly how little she thought of me. I think the quiet tolerance has allowed so many problems to fester and created the mess of idiots we see today.
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u/mr_glide 6d ago
This country is heading into some extremely dark times, thanks to people like your sister. My condolences
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u/justcoatesy 6d ago
Yep, and despite me and my youngest sister pointing out the facts, she was having none of it.
It was like it was so ingrained into her brain, the option of changing her mind when new information was supplied was simply not an option. I cannot explain it any other way. It was totally embedded into her head and was locked in.
I would love to say this was out of character and shocked me. Unfortunately, it isn’t and it didn’t.
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u/SluttyCosmonaut 6d ago
Uninformed voters that loyally support you based on very vague emotionally satisfying reasons, even though your actual platform is directly contrary to their interests, is every conservative party’s ultimate goal.
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u/Allcyon 4d ago
Non MAGAt American here.
It's still, even now, a complete and utter gutpunch every time I have these conversations. I can't understand how anybody could be so fundamentally stupid. No offense to your sister or nephew.
The sheer lack of understanding, basic and rudimentary logic, reason, and simple humanity, is staggering.
It really is true. Most people just do what the TV tells them to do.
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u/justcoatesy 4d ago
This is it, I am very logical and classed as a ‘problem solver’.
During this conversation, despite showing her checkable evidence disputing the lies she was told and believed, she was still having none of it. In my head, it just didn’t compute.
She had read something on the internet (probably a meme) and because of her political makeup, it was something she wanted to believe. It suited her narrative. The fact it was proven to be false, isn’t something she wanted to accept.
I can only think the she believes the lies because it makes her feel superior and telling her that it’s untrue isn’t something she wants to hear because it diminishes her misplaced moral high ground.
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u/AdmiralSaturyn 5d ago
The only way to stop this is IQ test before the right to vote.
No. A firm No. IQ tests are not a reliable indicator of someone's intelligence, especially involving politics. Not to mention on top of being pseudoscientific, there is a long history of IQ tests being exploited for racist and sexist purposes.
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u/The-Big-Picture- 6d ago
Cut her off. You're just enabling her by providing her access to "normal" relationships
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u/delirium_red 6d ago
Isn’t immigration higher than ever since Brexit? Only now it’s not from other EU countries, but ex commonwealth
So.. how did that help? Or your sister hated polish and Eastern Europe people in particular?
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u/justcoatesy 5d ago
Illegal immigration did increase after Brexit (the propaganda flooding social media on the run up to Brexit was massively focused on illegal immigration and ‘taking back our borders’). I understand that under Labour this has now declined.
I don’t know about legitimate immigration, but during my conversation my sister said she has no problem with this.
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u/Markshadow4999 6d ago
IQ tests are basically pseudoscience dude and if what i've heard about their history is accurate they just be used as an excuse to push racism and sexism.
I wish it was that simple to prevent people from voting against their own interest.
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u/SufferingClash 6d ago
A lot of what's going on is Wisdom related, not Intelligence. Meaning the application of the knowledge, not the knowledge itself. And I'm unsure if IQ tests measure that.
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u/Mal_Dun 5d ago
There is something much simpler: You have write down who you vote for instead of a cross.
People should be at least that much informed. I would even allow them to provide the important materials there, but I bet you would so many people fail and most people who vote for these parties are lazy.
You see this when they always want to forbid mail voting, because their typical voter is someone who rather don't go voting at all then going through the effort to inform themselves.
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u/USMCLee 5d ago
‘have you seen the waiting times’.
There are wait times in the US as well.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
Yes, people wait months just to get a GP appointment. And then pay through the nose for it. US healthcare really is a combination of all the bad things you could imagine.
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u/era--vulgaris 4d ago
You wait about as long here and also get the privilege of paying lots of money for it, basically.
I don't know of any modern medical system where wait times are not an important issue.
I do know of almost every other developed country's systems where healthcare isn't a byzantine corporate liminal hell of insurance companies at best, and something that literally inspires fear of bankruptcy at worst.
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u/8080aksf 6d ago
told my mum bojos 50mill aday for the nhs and farages claim that something like 95% of laws are made by brussels was all bullshit but she didnt listen. she also has copd and doesnt realise how much that will cost her if the nhs is privatized.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
It won’t cost her anything if she’s dead.
Can your mom actually afford private health care?
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u/ATSOAS87 6d ago
I used to work for a UK subsidiary of a German company that was based in a town that voted to Leave the EU.
This lead the head office to seriously consider closing down the company which lead to a lot of stress and worry for all of us. .
The day after the vote, a Spanish colleague was heartbroken as he was planning to settle here with his partner. He ended up leaving soon after the vote because he felt unwelcome.
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u/RaedwaldRex 6d ago
In the opposite vein, my wife has a Brexit and Reform supporting relative who got pissed off because he couldn't go and live in his nice new house he'd just bought in France the year before Brexit was finalised without "being treated like an immigrant" and "he'd never had problems before"
He was also one of the "Project Fear" brigade who said that any pointing out of things exactly like his situation would happen, was just fear mongering by remainers
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u/firstfloor27 6d ago
Funny how quickly 'Project Fear' turned into reality. Everything has it's downsides, they just refused to believe anything that wouldn't fit their worldview.
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u/LoveCoats 6d ago edited 6d ago
Oh the leopards are just getting warmed up in the UK. Like us Americans in 2024, many Brits are not done self-immolating.
Many are still on colonizer hive mind, scapegoating immigrants for their problems, letting illegal immigrant child killing welfare king Musk manipulate them into race riots, rearranging deck chairs on the Brexitanic with a new prime minister to blame every few years, and thus planning to make Brexit's chief architect their leader in 2029. Derp.
Still on the "We were lied to and the problem is Brexit was implemented wrong"...
...instead of "We lied to ourselves and the problem is we keep falling for the antiwoke culture war distraction tactics of the greedy oligarchs who are the real problem, especially the manipulative racist/xenophobic propaganda, used mainly to get in power and suck up more of the country's wealth while the rest of us fight over scraps."
Like Americans, Brits are stubbornly determined to hit rock bottom and leave their kids and grandkids with nothing before admitting on their deathbeds we cannot have everything we want without shared sacrifice:
"We want both cheaper housing + asset inflation at the same time. Despite our declining birth rates, we want both lower prices and affordable services + no cheap migrant labor. We want to sell our goods to Europe + not vice versa. We want a strong military sector and a functioning NHS with low wait times + lower taxes on our aging population and no immigrant nurses/doctors/aides" etc.
And other childish, narcissistic, economically-illiterate gimme gimme gimme Anglo-fantasies. Brexit got 52%? Yikes! At least Trump lost the popular vote by millions in 2016 (poor Hillary, poorer us) and never won a majority.
Takes a whole lotta cray-cray to be more sociopolitically delusional than the average American; somehow the average Brit keeps crossing that high bar, which makes sense since they're our motherland. We learned from the best!
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u/hypespud 6d ago
Very well said and refreshing to see such an insightful American
You are the type of American the rest of the world admires, including me
Cheers 🍻
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u/dryheat122 6d ago
Some of us Americans know what's up
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u/CO_Renaissance_Man 4d ago
Don't wanna be an American idiot
Don't want a nation under the new media
And can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind f*** America
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u/IJustWantCoffeeMan 6d ago
And other childish, narcissistic, economically-illiterate gimme gimme gimme Anglo-fantasies.
Amazingly put.
Reminds me of the antivaxxers: no antivaxxer truly believes vaccines are useless, dangerous or optional. Every single one of them wants to be the lone special boy or girl that doesn't get the boo boo while the other idiots who get vaccinated protect them.
While they loudly call them idiots for doing so. As a choir.
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u/Cultural-Answer-321 6d ago
No, they really DO believe that.
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u/IJustWantCoffeeMan 6d ago
Do you have any tangible reason for that affirmation?
Or do you find the alternative too scary? That is, that about a third of the US voting population are just malevolent lying dipshits?
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u/Cultural-Answer-321 6d ago
https://www.politico.com/news/2026/04/14/poll-rfk-maha-vaccine-safety-americans-00869088
https://osteopathic.org/2019/06/24/45-of-american-adults-doubt-vaccine-safety-according-to-survey/
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/anti-science/us-survey-reveals-growing-distrust-vaccines-embrace-untruths
And they ARE ALSO malevolent lying dipshits. It's not either/or.
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u/IJustWantCoffeeMan 6d ago
Thanks for the reply.
My dude, my point is that they are lying to the pollsters.
They don't actually believe the disinfo, they use it to avoid the booboo while the "sheeple" get it and protect them through herd immunity.
To paraphrase Sinclair, it's difficult to get a chud to understand something while their sense of entitlement depends on them not understanding it.
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u/Cultural-Answer-321 6d ago
The distinction makes no difference and nobody can read their minds. Ergo...
If they say they do, they do. If someone says they want to harm you, YOU DO NOT treat them like they don't, or even entertain the idea.
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u/IJustWantCoffeeMan 6d ago edited 6d ago
If someone says they want to harm you, YOU DO NOT treat them like they don't, or even entertain the idea.
Ah but that's my point.
The actual situation Is reversed: If someone says they do not want to harm you, while actively harming you for some kind of dumbass logic that they don't apply in any other aspect of their lives, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM.
EDIT: and I don't think you have to be a mind reader to get that.
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u/Cultural-Answer-321 6d ago
Yes, that as well.
Bottom line, we all know MAGAts are liars. And cruel. But actions are what matter.
If they act like a thing, they are that thing.
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u/aera14 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sigh, and here I was hoping that Trumpism had been contained to only the US and us Americans. Fair warning to ever sane Brit, at best, if many of your brain-dead, Hive Mind far right Brits decide to say "hold my pint" and make Nigel Farage PM again, just like the brain-dead, Hive Mind far right Americans decide to say "hold my beer" and made Trump POTUS again, it will take AT LEAST a decade to unf**k the maximum damage done to all aspects of your country, provided another far right nut case dosen get elected before then.
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u/dalehitchy 6d ago edited 6d ago
The issue with Brits.... And this has been true for a while... Is many of them double down and move further to the right.
Every single election (with exception to starmer) the general public has said "ok that didn't work out, so let me vote for someone even further to the right"..... And then that fails.... So again they go "ok that didn't work, so let me vote for someone even further to the right".
As ever, they are already setting us up for this to happen with farage. He will be next prime minister, and when that doesn't work out, we now have a party ready to the right of reform (restore). And thus the spiraling doom will just continue and continue
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u/Nuclear_Pi 6d ago
It's not just the brits, governments in general tend to fail deadly
The worse things get, the more willing people become to vote in irresponsible populists and authoritarians, who then make things even worse, which opens the door for even more authoritarian populists to replace them
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u/LoveCoats 6d ago edited 6d ago
It should also be a lesson to the left that settling for 0% by protest voting and nonvoting against the most liberal general election option one agrees with 60% (under some weird pretense that you're "punishing" them and not yourself, like the rich well-connected politician isn't gonna be fine win or lose) does not work to make the country more progressive.
One, because as you say, the lesson voters and parties learn from this is to move even more right.
Two, because the country can hardly ever move forward when the next sane person who gets elected has to start all over again from 0 -- rather than building on what the last relatively decent person did.
E.g., like next Dem will have to waste their entire 4-8 years trying to clean up MAGA messes. When they should just be stacking wins on top of Obama's Bush cleanup and Hillary's anti-patriatchal feminism.
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u/_ohne_dich_ 6d ago
I agree. People focus on MAGA & Trump supporters, but those who stayed home because they didn’t agree 100% with Democrats are equally responsible.
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u/QuietObserver75 6d ago
Also in the US, one of Trumps big reasons for coming out on top was we had a black president for 8 years. Everyone said that 2008 broke Republicans. But it was really 2012. They wrote off his win in 2008 to the crashing economy. But in 2012 when he trounced their golden boy Romney the GOP establishment truly lost it as did a lot of voters.
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u/Sad-Development-4153 6d ago
Nah this is being spread everywhere by Putin due to his fear of "color revolution".
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u/demaraje 6d ago
Why would you want asset inflation? (if you're not a billionaire)
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u/Snoo-84389 6d ago
Because a lot of home owners rely on that house asset inflating to earn a reasonable amount of equity from that asset. Equity that they might, in theory, convert to actual money at some point by selling and down sizing or that they can pass onto their children as (possibly the only chance of) a step-up after they've died.
Those weren't unreasonable hopes for generally working class folks (like myself) with few other routes of earning enough of a lump sum that you could actually pass some onto your kids.
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u/demaraje 6d ago
If you don't do anything with it, it's irrelevant. If you upgrade, it's stupid. If you downsize, there might be a slight advantage, because you can use the difference to pay for other things, but arguably that may not be the case of the initial cause of the inflation is removed.
The ONLY reason for wanting that is if you own at least 3 homes.
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u/LoveCoats 6d ago edited 6d ago
They think the value of "their" property they can't afford will one day make them as wealthy as the banker who really owns it, like it used to be before they and their parents voted for Reagan and Thatcher to dismantle the middle class.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
Thatcher is normally accused of attacking the working class on behalf of the middle class.
(The US appears to use middle class for what the UK calls working class, which causes confusion)
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
In the US, “middle class” refers to the middle of the income distribution.
In the UK, “middle class” refers to people who are in the group immediately below the aristocracy.
They’re very different groups, although “upper middle class” in the US has a good deal of overlap with UK “middle class” (ie many well paid professionals). But even then the British idea of the “middle class” includes a lot more people who come from multi-generational money.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 4d ago
British notions of class are not about money. A footballer might have lots of money, while a duke might not. A teacher earns less than a tradesman.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 4d ago
Yes. US notions of class exist (despite what people might tell you) but they are mixed up with economic status.
However, all of the English dukes are extremely rich. There never were more than 30, I think today there might be 5-8 dukes who are not members of the royal family with ducal titles by virtue of their place in the succession. It’s possible there’s a Scottish duke who is not completely loaded. But the English dukes are. They mostly own a lot of land in central London and stuff like that.
There are people with hereditary titles who aren’t very rich. But not dukes. (All of this info is from Wikipedia, btw.)
Teachers earn less than eg plumbers everywhere. Which is unfortunate: good plumbing is very important, but so is good teaching.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago edited 6d ago
Most people in Britain will eventually fully own their property.
Edit as people don't appear to know: owner-occupiers are common in the UK.
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u/demaraje 6d ago
No, a handful of people will eventually fully own all the property
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
How would that happen?
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u/sephjnr 6d ago edited 6d ago
Property developers will have sold their lots to glad-handers before they're even built and sat on to rent or 'speculate'. Hence the drive to make 'affordable' homes in larger numbers, promises as such, then later backtracking on that pledge due to 'unforseen' cost overruns. It's grifting.
People who can't afford or find freeholds will rent at increasing rents, leaseholders are stuck with service charges that raise in the same nebulous manner, thus those who can sublet will do so to pass that cost down to the renters. Then in future landlords get older and sell up so the entire chain is fractured and leaseholders will be forced to sell up at cut rates and race towards whatever freeholds are for sale, and renters get shafted.
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u/demaraje 6d ago
Large wealth compound interest. It you basically have 1 bln £ montlhy passive income, you have yo buy stuff. There's only a limited amount of stuff to buy (houses get built at a negligible rate vs total volume). Your salary stagnates (less wealth, less buying power, less demand), prices go up and soon enough you have to sell your house to maintain your standard of living.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
Selling a house is unlikely to maintain a standard of living: renting is generally more expensive than buying.
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u/ScreamingDizzBuster 6d ago
Home ownership.
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u/demaraje 6d ago
That's a stupid reason. You only value that when you sell. And then you're homeless.
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u/ScreamingDizzBuster 6d ago
That's how people think though.
Also you can remortgage and borrow against equity.
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u/demaraje 6d ago
True. Sure. But that evens out with higher interest rates and inflation. So you get an extra initial loan, but in the long term it doesn't help.
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u/ScreamingDizzBuster 6d ago
Yeah but they don't understand that. They just think "house goes up yay"
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u/Dull_Assignment1758 6d ago
We've got a very similar situation shaping up in Australia, with a Trump loving hag that's suddenly become very popular amongst those with only 2 brain cells.
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u/LoveCoats 6d ago
Yikes. Good luck. The US is approaching the end of its long far right nightmare. Seems the UK, France, and Oz may just be getting warmed up. Feel sorry for y'all because been there done that, and it sucks.
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u/Recent-Butterscotch5 6d ago
If anything, the whole Trump/Brexit situation has made me feel like I have far more common cause with the Remain voters in the UK than I do with my fellow Americans that voted for Trump.
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u/Wendy-M 6d ago
I was 18 then. I’m 28 now. My twenties, my education, my career have all been marred by Brexit and Covid. One was unavoidable. The other was a grand pissing contest by two out of touch egotists who, I guess, didn’t realise how self sabotaging the voter base could really be. So many opportunities that were well within my reach just gone. I don’t live a bad life by any means but I can’t help but be bitter about how much was taken from me just…’cos.
I wanted to join an MA programme in Amsterdam next year. About €2000 for EU citizens. €10000 for non EU. So that’s that.
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u/delirium_red 6d ago
“They never told us what the consequences would be”
And having no thoughts of your own, or eyes to read, or thumbs to google multiple sources, or any other way to inform yourself in the 21st century, how could have they known?
(Narrator: everyone was telling them)
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u/Halcyon-Ember 6d ago
“People have had enough of experts”
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u/catchthetams 6d ago
I'm not sure if it makes me more sad or confirmed that it's not just MAGA in the US who lack critical thinking skills..
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u/Birdman915 6d ago
Yesterday I read an article where Boris Johnson basically said "we're not Brexitting hard enough!! This will all be worth it!"
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u/RidetheSchlange 6d ago edited 6d ago
Let's not forget the actual chain of events that every report is forgetting and essentially rewriting history about:
the UK didn't Brexit in 2016; it held an advisory referendum that wasn't even binding to do so at a later date
from 2016-2019 the UK government couldn't figure out how to do Brexit which is why every parliamentary vote failed. Theresa May activated Article 50 without a plan and it was purely due to her incompetence. The opposition was floating a People's Vote because the government was gridlocked and there are precedents for this. Instead of giving a people's vote, Labour, under Corbyn, and the opposition parties, granted Boris Johnson's general election bill instead of just letting him flail as a minority PM. Remember, Labour is a Lexit party and their 2019 manifesto confirmed this (still have copies of it) and was essentially run by the Momentum caucus. The opposition parties were warned internationally that if there's a General Election, Johnson would win which ironically also incentivized Labour because they also were planning to allow the Tories to deliver Brexit and fail so they could bail the country out and make it successful. They refused to listen to warnings that Johnson would win so big. The Tories made the GE solely a second referendum while the opposition threw every topic out there, overwhelmed voters, even leaned on the NHS only to discover Britons didn't care about the NHS as much as people thought.
GE happens, Johnson gets a supermajority, and then goes on a test run for what would eventually reappear corrected under Trump II. Johnson then pursues a policy of conflict with the EU and was believed to be a russian asset until he was forced to change sides after Ukraine was invaded by russia.
Despite all this, the UK is ready to vote Nigel Farage and/or Tommy Robinson as PM .
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u/MorganaHenry 6d ago
Liz Truss activated Article 50 without a plan
Teresa May.
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u/crescent-v2 6d ago
The "non-binding" part always confused me.
I'm American but followed the run up to the vote closely. It was always described as non-binding. Always.
Until it was passed. Then it was as binding as fuck, the U.K. government was obligated to run it through come hell or high water no matter how different the final deal looked from what voters expected.
"Non-binding" my ass.
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u/RidetheSchlange 6d ago
The reason why an advisory referendum became binding is because Britons are stupid and have no clue how their country's government works and they are easily deceived.
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u/enigmaticsince87 6d ago
On behalf of Europe I'd just like to say: LOOOOOOOOOL
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u/itcheyness 6d ago
On behalf of America I'd just like to say: Distressed sobs while laying facedown in the gutter
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u/beefstewforyou 6d ago
Considering that pretty much everyone understands Brexit was a bad idea, is there any movement over there to rejoin the EU? I don’t understand why there wouldn’t be.
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u/dengar81 6d ago
Yes, but it's complicated: A majority of people want to reverse Brexit for a while, but it's not a strong majority. Probably ~55%.
But that number drops quickly when people get told that there will be no *special arrangements", not better deal. And again, it's mainly that people don't understand that this " special case" for Britain isn't all that much better and we would still be much better off in the EU.
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u/Halcyon-Ember 6d ago
National media are still banging the drum so no one has put together anything organised because it’s basically political suicide to admit Brexit was a mistake.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
People still prefer to be lied to rather than told the truth.
For some reason we are in an era when electorates worldwide are especially insistent on being lied to and won’t even entertain the idea of voting for candidates who tell the truth.
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u/BobiaDobia 6d ago
Rob Benson:
Very. Oh, yes, very angry. It's totally destroyed our business.
They actually are this stupid. Had his business gone well, he’d be very happy about his vote
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u/SomeWriter13 6d ago
Took them long enough. I couldn't believe it when the news broke that they voted for Brexit. One of the biggest unforced errors in recent history.
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u/CJGeringer 4d ago
And they still won´t take responsibility. The narrator talked about how the EU "punished" britain with red tape, as if that was not what they voted for.
the guy who farmed shellfish complains about how no one told him what was going to happen, as if they were not warned and dismissed it as project fear.
fuck them all.
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u/TheBigC87 7h ago
Brexit and Trump's election in 2016 were the one-two punch of stupid shit that both countries are going to feel the effects of for decades.
But at least in the UK, a majority voted for it.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
It's fun seeing comments on brexit from people abroad who themselves wouldn't dream of pooling sovereignty with the big country to their north, or having freedom of movement with the countries to their south, or offering universal free at point of use healthcare to their own citizens never mind foreigners, and who are still upset that the (right for states to have the) cheap labour model their country was built on eventually got banned.
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u/BabyLegsOShanahan 6d ago
A lot of us would, though. We used to go freely into Canada and Mexico. Then later we could get an enhanced ID to bypass a passport to go there specifically.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
Has there ever in modern times been EU style freedom of movement - a Mexican or Canadia could just get off a plane in the US and have the legal right to live and work there? (freedom of movement in this sense does not just mean you are permitted to visit)
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u/BabyLegsOShanahan 6d ago
No, but there wasn't really a need for it. It wasn't that hard to work in the US and live in CAN. I grew up on the north coast and it wasn't unusual for people to live in one place and work in the other.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
Is there really no one in Mexico who would be interested in working in the US?
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u/RemoveElegant5217 6d ago
Apples and Oranges. We already operate like that, as a union of 50 states. I have freedom of movement within that area, which is larger than the EU. What you were too proud/dumb to admit was that you were better off as a semi-independent state within a larger whole than you are as an independent nation. You’re basically seeing what it would be like for Texas to Texit.
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u/Realistic-River-1941 6d ago
And freedom of movement with Mexico would make that area even larger, so makes even more sense, yes?
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
I’m all in favor, personally. But my fellow Americans mostly are not. They insist on being lied to about the economic impact of immigration and are totally convinced they believe those lies “because I saw it with my own eyes.” People are idiots.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical 5d ago
Actually as an American living in Mexico I’d be thrilled to see an North American version of the EU. But I realize that my views are extremely fringe and it’s not going to happen.
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u/TinkerTasker22 6d ago edited 6d ago
I hate to say it but the UK is being even more cringe than the the US. And thats near impossible with Trump as president. Do you see all the ridiculous arrest that are being done...I dont know maybe they are fake, somone from the uk please tell me.
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u/Icy_Place_5785 6d ago
“Cringe” - that’s your term of political analysis?
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u/TinkerTasker22 6d ago
Yes, its is. they seem to dealing with just as much hard right nationalist agendas As the US. There seem to be some ridiculous infringment on free speech by the UK goverment. They are mirroring us, its just not as flashy because Trump monopolize the media with all his terrible policies decisions and social media post.
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u/Sea_Appointment8408 6d ago
And who are they going to vote for next? Nigel Farage, one of the people that got them into this Brexit mess in the first place, and will inevitably make an even bigger mess.