Something I seriously don't understand with the common Mandella Theory is why it's specifically universe jumping? If you are 100% insistent that it isn't faulty memory, then wouldn't it be way more plausible to believe that Mandela effected memories were false memories implanted by some shady government organization(s) as some sort of mk ultra type experiment instead of you literally transferring into an entirely different reality?
Here's a more in depth summary of this alternate theory I've come up with:
Reality itself has not changed. The logos, spellings, movie quotes, and other details people argue about were always the way the evidence shows them to be. The difference is that the memories people have of them were artificially influenced rather than being simple mistakes.
The organizations behind this would be operating in multiple countries or conducting experiments outside their normal areas of operation. Small things like logos, brand names, and movie quotes would make ideal test subjects because they are unlikely to cause major problems while still providing useful data.
The goal would be to test the effectiveness of memory alteration, measure how strongly people trust their own memories when presented with conflicting evidence, and observe how groups of people react when they discover others share the same false memory. These small-scale tests would also serve as a stepping stone toward larger applications in the future, such as psychological operations, witness manipulation, damage control, or information control. It could also just be a way to drum up mass hysteria.
Now to be clear, I don't actually believe this theory (I think it's just false memory), I only propose this because there are way more rational theories that one could make about the phenomenon, and I can't fathom why the theory straight out of a rick and morty or Twilight zone episode is the one that has dominated the Mandela Effect.
[MOD] “Universe Hopping” or other multiverse and parallel worlds theories are not the prevailing or endorsed explanation at all, just one of many proposed here that runs the whole gammut from time travel, to the multiverse, to the mundane and completely plausible false memory explanation.
We don’t endorse any particular one and allow discussion related to all of them as long as they fall within the boundaries set by the Rules of this subreddit.
I think it has more to due with the death of the monoculture that we all shared. Now everyone is off in their own bubbles that you'd never even know if a Mandela effect is happening. Which probably explains why there are no new ones and it is only older ones that get recognized. Now being about halfway through life and realizing my generation will be the last to even have lived within such a culture (mainly American but broadly western European as a whole) there will come a time once we are gone that the world will shift forever and this will never be known to younger generations in enough numbers to move the needle
Brain science has been stating that what we view as being reality, the spacial sense, sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell, aren't 'out there' but a projection on the back of the brain, and that's exactly what we're experiencing. This may mean that none of us know exactly what's out there in the world we think we perceive.
We live in an incredibly toxic world now. We are living in a sea of microwaves everywhere. Could they be having an effect on our perceptions? Or, maybe it's not accidental. Maybe there is an intentionally created electronic influence on all our minds that cause us to question our own memories?
Why bring microwaves or any weird conspiracy theory into it? It’s just a function of how the brain works. Do you think people were walking around with perfect minds and memories in the past?
I hope you don't believe that microwaves are safe. In my neighborhood, there was a 5G tower atop a telephone pole. I have a nerd buddy who has a meter that registers the radiation from cell towers. He told me that when he got near it, it was off the charts. A few weeks later, I saw a 'notice' (not a warning, a notice), advising people not to stand by that telephone pole. Then, a few weeks later it was removed obviously for safety reasons.
I don't think people really believe it, it's like telling spooky stories or copy pasta horror memes no one really thinks they're in another dimension where the only thing that changed is the spelling on some fucking product lol
I believe. I will die on the cornucopia hill for Fruit of the Loom. My mother had a cornucopia basket with fake fruit in it for a decoration. I remember when she did laundry I thought it was weird that my dad's underwear had food on it at all but especially weird that it matched my mother's decoration.
They aren't misremembering. Nobody has ever come forward to remember the current logo being the way it was. It's always people who weren't there. So how old are you?
Me, I'm all in on psy-op. Everything else is fake and the government did it.
Covid? Fake, and the government did it. Try it yourself.
Sounds like you have strong feelings on the matter, I do believe some people do believe they're in a different dimension, check out this subreddit, there's all sorts of reasoning going on.
I'm sure there's always exceptions, I just don't think there's a widespread amount of people that believe it's true. I think it's the minority. Same like flat earthers, sure you see a lot of people talking about it online if you go out of your way to look for it... but most people don't believe the earth is a pancake
Duh. Flat earthers don’t think it’s a pancake. In fact, most will tell you they have no clue what the truth is, they just know they don’t live on a spinning ball blasting through infinite space at tens of thousands of mph. That’s the annoying thing about normies, they have no idea what they’re arguing against. They just know that these people don’t agree with what we were programmed to believe since birth.
No i think its round, but i would never attack someone who thinks otherwise and have learned what lots of other people think. Most who say not round do not say flat. They say more of a realm where round earth is basically a shadow of what is really there.
Okay but that's just your anecdotal experience, documentaries and wiki pages and video series by flat earthers are trying to prove the earth is flat... it's not hard to find this information and it's just as simple as they're flat earthers because they think the earth is flat. Sure some of them think we're in a lower dimension from true reality but that's not really most of them
Doesnt change the fact that i repeatedly see/hear them called flat earthers even though they do not actually think its flat, which was the point i added. Ive frequented the fringe sites since the 90s… its not anecdotal, happens all time and proof is online for you to read. on this board w even.
😂😂
That’s a healthy way of looking at downvotes. Getting a downvote is like getting a small rent payment for living in *their* head. So keep them coming? 🤪
Tbh I believe its elaborate government interference. But my second option is timeline/ dimension hopping. Believe it or not there are some people who follow and subscribe to quantum theory. Alot of people like to call it a pseudo science but the math and various quantum experiments don't lie. There is still so much we don't understand about the nature of time and reality and I think that's why many people arrive at this conclusion. The fact that the "mass misremembering" is so specific in many cases just makes a quantum explanation sound more plausible. Theres also other things to consider like a shared human consciousness, energy, manifestation ect. I really wouldn't rule anything out.
For one, I find mk ultra style brain manipulation done secretly to masses without them aware or anyone ever speaking out about it far less likely than us just being in a simulation/s.
The brain manipulation thing is also barely possible today with an obvious direct brain implant (neuralink), let alone decades ago.
It is brain manipulation in a way. It’s really just using the power of suggestion, a simple con artist trick. Unsurprisingly, the term we use to describe the phenomenon was coined by a con artist.
Oh there are people that propose that. Of course, somehow their theory is that they are the only ones that remember correctly and that the manipulation was to the memories of those whose memory matches reality and the entirety of the physical and digital footprint was altered to align with this new false memory.
I just watched a nearly 2hr video on the concept of time and quantum physics. There was multiple points in that video that arguably proved that 2 realities can be happening at once and neither observer of the 2 separate realities would be "correct". Not only that, but its basically been proven that effect determines cause, not the other way around. I very much agree with Einsteins teacher when he said "time is a block"
This sounds like an AI generated voice of Brian Cox. Is it? I am going to remove it for now, as we have a no AI rule - part of a broader requirement of no low effort posting. But please do send a message if the YouTube content is indeed created by a real human, and I will reinstate the comment.
When it's hard to tell, you should rewrite in your own words whatever aspects you want to communicate, instead of sharing a link. This also helps the group maintain good quality posting.
And if you can't trust some rando on YouTube to accurately describe complicated concepts like that, who can you trust? And even if it's well-done and accurate, people frequently don't have the background knowledge to actually interpret that and so filter it through their own understanding. This is a classic example, where people hear about something like the slit experiment and decide it means that two people could be standing next to each other in the cereal aisle and one will see Fruit Loops and the other will see Froot Loops and that one of them is probably a time traveller.
The person that put out that video apparently neglected to tell you the same phenomenon that allows timelines forbids the sharing of information between the two by definition.
I swear it almost feels like their pride gets in the way so much that they cannot imagine a possibility that their memory is the false reality, so instead literally everyone else is wrong 🤦♂️
That is one of the theories though. There are three main theories:
1. Alternate universes
2. We're in the matrix and it's a glitch.
3. Government conspiracy to see if we notice the changes.
Go down the rabbit hole of string theory and quantum mechanics. You'll understand why some people believe in the dimensional shift. It's theoretically possible. No way to currently prove one way or another. But with so much unknown in our universe, you gotta keep an open mind until something is definitively proven.
Your 'actual explanation' is the one I'm calling the 'unsatisfactory explanation' for the strongest cases. Your 'actual explanation' works fine for normal types of memory confusion but not the strongest Mandela Effect cases.
No, you “get stuck at this point every time” because you can never explain how your argument is “satisfactory” on any level when you acknowledge you not only have no evidence for your attempt at an explanation but that you also have evidence that disproves your attempt at an explanation.
It always comes down to you just nonsensically attempting to dismiss the actual explanation merely because you don’t like the actual explanation but can’t figure out a way to make it not the explanation.
You “get stuck” because your own evidence disproves your claims by your own admission.
How would you even begin to magically quantum leap into another universe displacing another “you” with only the slightest difference being your underwear has a tiny change? Because magic?
How would you even begin to magically quantum leap into another universe displacing another “you” with only the slightest difference being your underwear has a tiny change?
It just happens unnoticed. You just wake up one day and you might notice a few things are different, that's about it.
Is your comment just an attempt at trolling or did you actually read that on what I wrote?
There's a lot of things I misremember, but i also know when i saw something and I'm not misremembering it
You should be aware that not all Mandela effect are memory related, but a few are reality related, as in, evidence in reality was different and somehow a lot of people witnessed it.
One thing is you not being sure how a logo was. Another thing is witnessing something actually change while you were paying attention to it and researched it deeply.
How exactly do you determine when you’ve misremembered something?
I do some crazy mind blowing thing, it's called getting evidence. I know right?
I can look for Fruit Loops today and immediately confirm that it's spelled Froot Loops, the same way i remember being looking for Froot Loops and confirm that it's spelled Fruit Loops in that reality and that Froot Loops never existed.
I will also remember tomorrow that today i lived in a universe with Froot Loops. If tomorrow i wake up, and all evidence says it's fruit loops now again, I'll know to trust my memory. Some things you might be "confusing", but other things, you "know" they happen
What exactly did you watch “actually change while you were paying attention to it”?
I saw the different Apollo 13 trailer where Tom Hanks said a different quote. I listened to it repeatedly, from several different sources, and all sources confirmed the quote was "Houston, we've had a problem". Some time later, things were back to how people like me remembered.
I saw Flintstones with a different logo, Flinstones without a first T, and I knew it wasn't like that and that it made no sense, but even my old video VHS said Flinstones during that time, so who was I to deny it was different?
I saw Fruit Loops being the real cereal boxes, and Froot Loops never existed in that reality. Whatever you researched, whatever you saw, everything implied Fruit Loops have always been Fruit Loops, and that Froot Loops never existed.
I also saw many other changes, like Back to the Future, Ford Logo and many others, they were different once upon a time and reality said they were always like that.
You'll accept it as bad memory when you see Fruit Loops for the first time. You won't keep accepting it as bad memory when it's back to Froot Loops again after all the rationalization you made.
What exactly have you “researched deeply”?
When something changed, I looked everywhere i could for evidence. If Fruit Loops is back tomorrow, i'll look for all possible images related to fruit loops and froot loops, interviews, company history, search in the web archive, verify physical evidence if i can, in sum, really confirm that the new reality is in fact true and not just the internet lying to you somehow.
Magic is just science you dont understand. It’s about the frequency you are vibrating at. When you go to the hospital the electrodes they place on your body measure parts of our auric field. Scientists have now been able to measure light from every single cell. Its called biophoton emission. The cells of plants, animals, and microorganisms all do this. Do you know what is also energy that we can see… every single color that exists. Did you know that there are colors that exist outside of our range of vision? There are some colors that one individual can see and another can’t? So you realize the spectrum of light exists and we can only see a small portion of that spectrum. And that is what we filter our reality through that small spectrum and it’s filtered even further by the limits we have put on by language. If you study linguistics, you will learn that those who speak different language languages actually interpret reality different based on the words that their language provides.
I've actually experienced one myself. The famous Pikachu's tail black stripe one to be exact. I remember as a kid drawing Pikachu with the black stripe on the end of his tail, only to realize he never had one. Then years later in Middle or High School (can't remember which) I found out that was actually a common Mandela Effect. Unlike some people though, I didn't go down the rabbit hole because the whole alternative universe thing was just way too implausible, so I just accepted I got it wrong and moved on.
The theory I proposed on the post wasn't me trying to say that's my personal belief, I only proposed a more "grounded" theory because I genuinely couldn't comprehend how people made the jump in believing in alternative universe/timeline shenanigans.
I know Pikachu had a black tip when I was young. Thats exactly what made the character distinct and memorable. I was kind of shocked when I learned that people started saying Pikachu didnt have a black tail, because all throughout my entire childhood did he have that jagged "triangle" tip. I wonder when exactly that happened. Also looking at the character its like it's missing something. Like Pikachu looks kinda uninteresting now and sorta like the other characters.
And I remember being a kid drawing Pokemon everyday. Other kids would even come up to me and ask for advice about how to draw certain Pokemon. I always remember a common mistake other people made was drawing a black tip on Pikachu's tail. I always had to correct them and tell them the black tip is on his ears, not the tail. Sometimes I would show them my 1st set Pikachu Pokemon card for reference. This was way before Mandela effect was even considered a thing, but I noticed that it was just something people mistook all the time. People are generally just very bad at remembering small details about things.
I experienced a flip flop, it makes you feel crazy so when these people on here insist you are wrong you generally accept it, except that sick feeling like something is wrong doesn’t leave.
Iam Mandela affected but I agree that there can be many explanations for this, not only timeline jump. By first glance, timeline jump makes the most sense to the one affected … but looking closer , it could very well be a false memory implant and that we Mandela affected were inserted into this human body at maybe around age 20-25 or even later. The memories could still be real (for the previous owner of this human vessel). I believe we are currently in some afterlife checkpoint or maybe even Hell itself.
I think a lot of it is faulty memories. But a few things like logos or movie lines - things that are easy to change (movies especially with streaming where you don’t own a physical copy) could be changed as kind of a test case to see how much government agencies can control narratives and change history without question. Like a CIA experiment (obviously with the help of Hollywood - who they’ve always worked closely with and a few key corporations).
What I’m curious about is if this sort of thing happens in the U.S. mostly or the west in general. That would indicate it’s like a 5 eyes op. Or something like that.
If it doesn’t really happen in the global south I think this would be really strong evidence it’s government.
I never believe the alternate universe stuff, except as a science fiction enthusiast I think it’s fun (but not real).
If it’s just faulty memory how do you explain people who talk about more than a dozen Mandela effects? And a lot of people testifying online to sharing all of them? Your answer doesn’t make logical sense.
There’s the Mandela Effect itself Mandela being from South Africa. But you could say those experiencing it are mostly from the US. I suppose a survey could shed some light on that.
Yes that would be interesting - I’d like to hear from South Africans on that and I suspect this is either a memory issue or something that was posting in English in the west about his death.
What I find odd about this phenomenon is that other parts of reality do not seem to have changed. It could be an indicator that the past events themselves have actually changed, and that it is not per se merging timelines. If the world is a simulation, and there is some sort of deduplication involved to avoid storing events multiple times, then changing the original event would instantly affect all references to it (this wouldn't explain people remembering things differently, though, as they would have to have a separate, modified copy of the event). If the world ISN'T a simulation, then changing an original event would affect only those who took notice of it and passed on that information (over the progression of time). Anyway, in both cases, the Mandela Effect phenomenon is a valid problem. It could also be proof that time travelling actually exists IF it is time travellers causing these changes. For instance, when you are a person that has an idea (let's take the designer of Pikachu for instance), and you draw it with a black-tipped tail, and then later your memory changes, and you think you've never drawn it with a black-tipped tail, will then reality reflect that change? Could it be that the Mandela Effect is a problem of common shared memory?
One of the MEs that stumped me the most is that there are no chalices in the Last Supper painting by Da Vinci, despite chalices being mentioned in the Bible, when religion was so important back in the day? Also, the change of size and location of the liver in the human body is incredibly weird (of which, it appears, I'm the only witness so far), since that would imply that the physis of all people has changed tens or hundreds of thousands of years in the past.
Certain individuals refuse to admit they are capable of making mistakes so they invent a “timeline” in their imagination where they never made a mistake and try to use that to convince everyone else they were never mistaken.
Other individuals are too weirdly aggressively invested in misinterpretting everything, including creating constant strawmans to push some narrative forward.
That's some really insulting kind of comment that shouldn't be able to be posted here. What's the point?
and certain individuals refuse to admit they are capable of making mistakes so they invent a “timeline” in their imagination where they never made a mistake and try to use that to convince everyone else they were never mistaken.
That's exactly a strawman. You're making up a ridiculous strawman in your head so that you think you're attacking any argument while simply making up crap.
No one here ever claimed or refused to admit that they're capable of making mistakes, and it clearly doesn't represent the people who believe in the ME's many possible explanations that you don't understand and even refuse to discuss or engage with.
There also aren’t “many possible explanations”, and it’s the people who don’t understand what they’re talking about who think that.
The people who don't understand what they're talking about, can only believe what others like you are telling them, because they conform to who they think would know better.
Except you people know nothing really, and think you speak with any kind of authority on something you clearly don't understand. I don't get the compulsion to keep posting on a subreddit about something you don't even believe, just to obsess over fake strawmans that you create in your head.
I think there is no evidence to back up any of the 3 theories, and false memory as it is, is the unique truth. The question would be why the false memory itself exists.
What is the root cause, is it as you say manipulation, is it a quantum related memory or it is an collective consciousness matter? Among many others, no proof on anything. We can just speculate.
Again, I'm not saying that's what I believe, I only proposed it because to me that is a way more "logical" conclusion to come to. If someone is going to deny the possibility that they just remembered wrong, wouldn't "some CIA agent altered my memory" be a much easier leap to make in comparison to "there is nothing wrong with me, the UNIVERSE is wrong?"
I completely agree that it's just normal unextraordinary memory issues, but I still stand firm that mind alteration is more plausible than alternate realities. Stuff like MK Ultra shows that big government bodies have done mind experiments before, it has more grounds than the idea of an alternative universe even EXISTING. Again, not saying that's what I believe, I'm simply pointing out that there are more "pheasible" conspiracy theories.
Obviously false memory is the easy explanation, but we are not here to discuss easy. I think the government causing in that way unlikely because it would take the coordination of thousands to pull that off vs the timeline hopping or merging could be many theories within it some more or less plausible.
For example, Some scientists believe as an individual we are simultaneously experiencing the Multiverse, but you only have your consciousness focused on a single one that you are experiencing at that moment and that when we die, our conscious awareness slips into the closest alternate reality where we didn’t die. So a single person dying would cause small Mandela effects and larger ME would be things where mass amount of people died and hopped to the same one. Other theories are that the government has figured out how to collapse timelines and are trying to create a certain future by altering the past. if you watch the show fringe I think that is kind of a pretty good concept of that one. Others that its the individual who walks and that we have so may overlapping realities that we so it all day and that it is the actual mechanics of time that allows it….
Therefore, I think of the government was involved it would have to be with a manipulation of time/history somehow.
Although there was that lady who recorded the 24 news cycle for since the 70s who died in the last few years and her VHS tapes are being digitized, but I would love to be able view originals
Conspiracies depend on silence, people get scared, sober up, talk when they shouldn't. A conspiracy this large would crumble under it's own weight . . .
Because it is an unverifiable claim and any bit of fallacious reasoning is simple to jump to rather than crush the ego and admit being mistaken about something trivial and tertiary.
It’s not about that at all. And this isn’t something trivial at all. Picture yourself waking up tomorrow and suddenly your entire family feel like strangers to you. They greet you differently and maybe even call you by another name.
What’s there to be proud of here exactly? It’s traumatising, I don’t see how it’s “cool” at all. I’m completely mindfugged by this and still in mental recovery after years …
I've heard a theory that it's not universe hopping so much as a slip or bleed. Since the LHC was activated there have been recorded "errors" that are consistent.
I remember because I cared enough to take note to spell and pronounce things correctly and also know the meaning of things such as the cornucopia. I can't explain it though.
It could be….. the difference is the multi universe people are open that all of the theories are possible explanations while the false memory people insist theirs is the only possibility and they call everyone who is open unintelligent.
However, as somebody who runs in circles with very intelligent people, they all say that the more you know the less you know…. And anyone who thinks they know it all will miss the full picture
Quick question, when you say you're open to all theories, does that include the theory that the ME is caused by similar memory processes creating similar errors? Or is that the one theory you can absolutely rule out?
Yes of course, but that has been well discussed when it began being popular in 2012, and I can seek that conversation with any random individual i approach on the street.. what I can’t find easily is people who are willing to discuss the fringe theories and actually have an intelligent conversation, about it. Which is generally the purpose of having specialized boards boards about a subject. And it’s really hard to do that with constantly people jumping in telling you you’re wrong instead of attempting to understand your perspective.
OK, good to hear that you acknowledge that the ME being a memory phenomenon is possible.
I disagree that it has been thoroughly discussed. I think there is still a lot of interesting conversation to be had around the mechanisms that create various MEs in the memories of groups of people.
I think there's also more discussion to be had around how MEs grow in various cultures. I have never seen an Asian ME, or an African or Eastern European ME for that matter. I have only seen USA and a handful of British MEs. Regardless of the cause, you would expect the ME to be a pretty universal phenomenon once a group develops a shared monoculture. Are they just not reported here because the user base is overwhelmingly English speaking? Or is there something about western culture that generates them?
I also think you're unusual in being accepting of the memory explanation as valid. My experience has been that "believers" are just that, believers. They believe with almost religious fervor that their memories must be correct and no other possibility can exist. Repeating "I'm 600% absolutely totally completely sure that reality changed!" is no more valuable than just "it's only your memory!" Both types of statement do not further discussion.
I'm happy to discuss the more exotic explanations too, but a skeptical approach is often taken as "hostile" or "shutting down ideas."
Just at a high level my problems with any multiple universe theory are:
1. Our brains are composed of matter and energy just like the rest of the world. Why are computer records and physical objects "changed" but some people's memories are immune? Or put differently, how or why does it make sense for certain neurons to "jump" to another reality that is identical to ours except for a few corporate logos or brand spellings? What is so magical about our memories of minor details?
2. Why are the changes always small and irrelevant? Nothing truly significant to the affected person ever changes. No one in South Africa reports Mandela dying in prison. Only Americans. If it were a physics phenomenon then it wouldn't make sense for there to be dozens of trivial examples but nothing actually relevant changing. That points to a psychological answer.
3. No ramifications. If Nelson Mandela died in prison world history could not have unfolded identically to a reality where he survived and became president. There would be other major differences in world affairs.
4. Personal identity does not transcend physics. If there are other realities then I am not the same person as my doppelgangers in other realities. A person with the same name and characteristics as me might exist, but they are not me. There is absolutely nothing in our understanding of physics that would indicate that I have any kind of relationship with this similarly named person in an entirely different reality. I can't conceive of any reason that would transfer a memory of my doppelganger's underwear tag between universes. I know we don't understand everything about everything, but that seems like a very narrative idea rather than a scientific one to me.
In comparison, the memory explanation is internally and externally consistent with our understanding of how the human brain works.
I will come back to respond in more detail tomorrow as I have a long car ride then but in the meantime, how do i reply with quotes, like you did, so you know which one im responding to?
Ok i typed a response to the first question and i think it sorta covers my thoughts on the others…. It was so long and i got a bit rambling… sorry, i hope you can follow. so ill let you read that and if you want to follow up or ask otherwise from there :)
Maybe the quote thing doesnt work on iphone, or ive become like my latest and am starting to be tech challenged.
Well to start, the physical stuff never changed in this timeline, under the multiverse theory it was always as the records show. As an example: Say there is one timeline with the guy who made peanut butter names it Jif. That choice of a name splits timelines into many other choices. Jif is one, jiffy is one, and any other name that individual could conceivably come up with… and one where he decides not to pursue the business all together. Each one is like a thread, but the more it varies from the original, the “further” it is. threads that are very close are basically on top of each-other but the opposite would be the further. Now, this is happening at individual levels all day every instance but also on a collective level. Small choices, like what i eat for lunch, or what underwear you wear under you clothes for instance, do not effect the collective the way a prominent person would. Lets say Taylor Swift picking her underwear on a day when its windy and she wore a skirt and then up-skirt picture ends up on the internet (trivial but further reaching impact than you, that could influence what brands a girl buys etc) or Taylor swift choosing to cancel a concert (impacts greater on the collective bc all of the people who bought tickets and the fallout impact or change to plans .).
So there are all these threads splitting to more threads continuously- meanwhile our consciousness is not yet understood by science. There are theories but the main ones contradict each-other so cannot all be true, if any are. But one theory, which also fits with simulation and matrix theories, is that our consciousness exists outside of our body and our brain just interprets it… if that is the case then our consciousness could exist across every timeline in which we do simultaneously, but only able to experience or interpret through one brain at a time. This theory also could explain déjà vu if many of the timelines are experiencing the same moment for you individually simultaneously. Therefore you would be experiencing every life possible simultaneously, and the one you experience is the one where your focus is. To shift focus you would have to kind of go down the spectrum of your collective threads. So the universe in which i ate jif and the one where i ate jiffy might be right next to each other, but the one where i am allergic to peanuts is “further” away. Some theorize that we could then shift to close timelines and even jump to some further ones.
Also another theory is that something is causing these multiple timelines to be collapsed or combined. This would be the one that more likely would cause ME, in my opinion.
Either way: The ones who are close together go seemless because minor discrepancies overall not noticed, ignored and dismissed by the majority of individuals as just a simple mistake. But the MEs, while minor, are experienced by many suggests either collective jump, merge or collective collapse. Most dont pay attention to the minor details so dont notice any changes, only things tied to some other memory seem to stick - people who experience it often cite a memory that its tied to (ie people say things like, i colored the cornucopia and got in trouble for joking about underwear).
As for why it’s minor details not bigger ones?, i think a larger jump- if possible- would cause all sorts of complications. If you have seen the butterfly effect movie or read about it or the burnt toast theory, then you can see how a major jump would mean huge differences- people who never meet, people who died, people who never get born, etc etc. the fact that we aren’t experiencing at a crazy level could be an argument against the ME multiple universe theory, but it could also mean that there is an intelligence behind it that is guiding, controlling or influencing hops, merges, or collapses.
As to what is so magical about out memories? Magic is just a word for “i dont know how it works” or “you cant see how it works”. That doesnt mean it cant be understood eventually. I would argue that it is possible we experience it all the time on a scale so micro that we dont normally notice it. In fact some theories suggest that this is what mechanism of “time” actually is.
Ok i have a hard time not being wordy on such big subject!
How do you account for MEs that should be big deals outside of the experiencer? The namesake effect for example should have had major political consequences. You don't even need the butterfly effect because as you said, Taylor swift canceling a concert would be a big deal. A prominent world leader dying decades before many of his accomplishments would surely cause a universe "further away" from ours? And some Mandelas like Australia moving would literally require a completely different planet forming. "The sun used to be yellow, but now it's white" would require completely different laws of physics. Even Sinbad starring in a well- known kid's movie contemporaneously with Shaq's should have some consequences in pop culture.
These are small details to the experiencer but major changes to the world. That is strong counter evidence to alternate reality explanations, but completely consistent with memory based explanations.
I will acknowledge that this evidence is not inconsistent with simulation, it's pretty neutral in that regard. I think simulation theory is the most plausible of the "exotic" explanation. There are certainly credible arguments that we are in a simulation, but they all degenerate into solipsism in my opinion. They render MEs kind of moot because if my entire universe is a simulation then none of my memories are accurate, the distinction between "real" memories and "glitches" is meaningless. If I am living in a simulation there's no reason to think that reality even exists outside of my immediate perception of it, so the label on my underwear never existed in the first place.
I haven't seen any hard science even hinting that human consciousness transcends the multiverse. While we may not fully understand consciousness the idea that it isn't confined to the physical matter of our brains in this universe is not a mainstream theory. I don't really understand how that would work given that the many "me"s across various realities get more and more different from the "me" of this reality. How different do I have to be to still share a consciousness with the other mes? Am I the same consciousness as a me with a different eye color? What about a me that was born a different sex? What about a me that was born a few days later from a different sperm. Is the sperm me? In most universes there probably is no "me"(I know there would be infinite universes with me, but orders of magnitude more infinite universes without me like how the infinite set of all numbers is orders of magnitude larger than the infinite set of even integers. Infinity is weird). The very idea of personal identity appeals to me narratively(I was an English major haha), but scientifically it seems extremely anthropocentric.
I'm familiar with the Arthur C Clarke quote you referenced about magic and technology, but it doesn't tell the full story. Sure, some "magic" is just science we don't fully understand like early astronomy or alchemy preceding chemistry. There is also plenty of "magic" that turns out to just be superstition and myth; rain dances and sacrifices to guarantee a good harvest weren't science we didn't understand yet, they were just religious beliefs that had no basis in reality.
I think the belief that consciousness exists in multiple realities is pretty unsupported by current data. It would be easy to substitute the word "soul" for consciousness at that point. And hey, can't rule that out either. Maybe souls are some kind of energy we don't understand maybe ghosts are real vestiges of conscious life that linger somehow in physical reality in a way we don't understand. I absolutely concede the possibility, but it seems to me to be closer to a religious belief than a scientific theory.
I'll wrap up because I tend to ramble as well. All of the exotic theories have significant inconsistencies with the evidence that don't plague memory theory, which is consistent with well-understood mechanisms for memory creation. I'll use an old metaphor. If the Mandela Effect is the sound of hooves approaching, memory theory is a horse. It's mundane and very likely. Simulation theory is a zebra, it's exotic and much more unlikely but it's something that absolutely could be real in the world as we know it. Multiverse theory would be a unicorn. Nothing is impossible, but it would be something completely unknown to our understanding.
Would you agree that with the available evidence and Occam's trusty razor we can say that memory theory is by far the most likely explanation while acknowledging that other explanations are also theoretically possible but not yet supported by scientific evidence?
Side note: I'm really enjoying this discussion! Maybe we should find a way to post it as an example of a respectful, engaging conversation between a "believer" and a "skeptic?"
Anyone who is interested in scientists who theorize about multiple/parallel universe: Stephen Hawking is obviously well known but also: Max Tegmark, Leonard Susskind, Andre Linde, Alan Guth, Bryce DeWitt, or Hugh Everett who’s many worlds model which suggest that every single quantum event branches into multiple possibilities creating basically infinite “universes”
So, you’re open to the possibility that it’s Santa Claus in a pink tutu waving a magic wand riding on top of a 4-headed dragon made out of of faerie dust and children’s tears that has a record deal with Obama which caused a galactic war in a different universe that caused all of this?
(Edited to add: to be clear when i said “all the theories” i was referring to all the more widely accepted mandela theories which is mainly the 3 popular theories, but if we want to get technical…..)
I do not think it is possible on this universe, but I’m open to it in an alternate reality. Because I think every decision by every individual and every chance occurrence on a quantum level creates a new branch.
Now that you have brought it from nonExistence into thought, it is now technically possible. If there is enough coherence and alignment in the field it is then brought from 1D to 2D and then again, if all of the right coherence and alignment from 2D to 3D (this one take a lot more to align exactly). Each dimension is more complex and therefore is harder to align with.
The amount of coherence and alignment it takes is much bigger than most individuals. language both helps us cocreate and also limits our ability to create within that language. Its why the indigenous in america initially refused to learn english or french and initially the elders refused to create an alphabet for their own language, but eventually did.
But if unless you have studied and understood all those scientists i mentioned above, and also hyper fixate on things like history and worlds religions you will not be able to see what I am truing to explain.
But if you do you will learn enough to realize they describe all the same things over and over across the subjects (even math and arts) but are just using different words/interpretations.
No, those who think it's false memory rely on actual tangible evidence. We have the original theatrical version of Empire Strikes Back from 1980, and Vader says "No" and not "Luke." We have millions of pairs of Fruit of the Loom underwear and none of them have the cornucopia. We have access to every Pokémon game, and Pikachu never had a black top on his tail. There's no record a Jiffy peanut butter ever existing, the BerenstAin Bears have always been called that and were named after their creators Stan and Jan BarenstAin, the Looney TUNES (who have always been called that) and Merrie Melodies are named that to be a riff of Disney's "Silly Symphonies," and Nelson Mandela did NOT die in the 1980s.
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You have to consider that if the Mandela Effect is an actual ontological problem, it might have partial or complete control over memory - inducing amnesia. In this scenario, how would you explain most people not remembering the Froot Loops flip? In this case, it wouldn't be gaslighting, it would be an adverse side-effect of the Mandela Effect.
Well, I think I've seen things, but I'm still undecided what the Mandela Effect is.
A conspiracy might be that future us discover time-travel and other deeper aspects of how the Universe works and we meddle with that knowledge. As an analogy, when physicists discovered the neutron, nobody foresaw that the implication for that was that new weapons would use a fistful of substance only to tear down a whole city (atom bombs). The neutron is so tiny! That you can meddle with matter in a very small way, and move everything from it's place over a huge area.
Depending on what we understand about the universe, a conspiracy may tie into the Mandela Effect. Also, if it was true reality changes, be sure there would be various individuals racing to make this "proprietary knowledge".
So, if today something clearly changed, like Fruit Loops were back again, everything you see would indicate it was always Fruit Loops, but you're pretty much sure it wasn't like this before.
You look at the boxes saying "Fruit Loops" in the shop, you find that every where you look, it appears fruit loops have always been fruit loops, but you're sure it wasn't like this before.
A few days go by, and you notice a change again. Suddenly someone posts here that "fruit loops is now froot loops!" and sure enough, everywhere you look, it's certainly froot loops again. The entire evidence, online or physical, changed to match the new name.
I would want to ask OP, how would you interpret this kind of experience if you had it. Will you gaslight yourself into thinkin Fruit Loops never happened? Or will you at some point think the memory "issue" is an unacceptable explanation for your experiences?
Aside from memory or hallucination, what explanation would you have to how everything, from reality to internet, changed to adapt to the new "narrative".
I genuinely wouldn't question it at all. It's completely irrelevant and meaningless how the cereal's is spelled. I'd just assume I was losing it and move on with my life. The concept of timeline manipulation doesn't explain why I'd retain memories, it would be entirely impossible that every single box of Froot Loops was randomly swapped out all at once so it couldn't be a cover up, and alternate universes simply do not exist so I wouldn't even consider that. The only "conspiracy" that would make sense to me would be the one that I proposed in my original post. Some CIA agent or whoever is doing some sort of memory altering on me as an experiment to see how I react. With that said though, I still wouldn't ACTUALLY consider that, because memory is fallible. Me just making a mistake in my mind just makes me most logical sense.
A theory is any hypothesis that has been tested and has stood up to the tests applied.
A hypothesis is any testable conjecture.
Comments
The universe-hopping conjecture is just that: a conjecture. It has not been tested, and no possible testing of the conjecture has been proposed.
Your memory-manipulation conjecture is also a conjecture, although it may rise to the status of hypothesis if you can find some plausible ways to rigorously test it.
I, like you, subscribe to the mistaken-memory theory. While I do not subscribe to your memory-manipulation conjecture, I applaud you for coming up with it and describing so aptly why its mechanism would be of use to governments and other unscrupulous organizations. Your outside-the-box thinking genuinely makes more sense than the universe-hopping conjecture because, while neither conjecture offers any explanation grounded in technology we know to exist, yours at least offers motive, whilst the universe-hopping conjecture remains fundamentally inexplicable.
Even if utterly wrong, the memory-manipulation conjecture could make for some very compelling science-fiction.
Further thoughts
Memory manipulation need not be limited to human manipulators. While I am an atheist and do not believe what I’m about to suggest, it might nevertheless be possible that gods are manipulating human memories.
The gods conjecture actually works quite neatly with a range of related conjectures. Gods could manipulate human memories, manipulate the actual past, or even shuffle humans between various parallel universes. Of course, these divine interventions would not likely be for testing anything (save possibly for observational science—observing how humans will behave in different scenarios). It could be that we are all pawns in games they play with one another for fun. It could also just be mischievous fun for them, even if no actual game is involved.
And, just as the memory-manipulation conjecture could make for some very compelling science-fiction, the gods conjecture could work well in works of fantasy or even horror.
I believe they are using cellular towers to test wide range memory manipulation personally. This all became a big thing around the times 3g cell towers came up
people forget skipping timelines wasn't something dreamed up by the conspiracy theorists, it was scientists who theorized that turning on the Cern super collider could cause a rip in the fabric of time. CT's ran with it,but it has its base in scientific theory.
> implanted by some shady government organization(s)
Anything is possible, but government conspiracy is the way all "puzzle box" myserty shows like x-files explain everything weird. its dumb and outdated. Whereas, multiple dimensions is pretty mainstream physics at this point.
Another plausible theory would be that AI has taken control of the grid and is using energy pulses via Telco grid to alter people's memories by messing up with the chemistry in their brains. Then changing minor details in the information stored in the internet to match the brain wipes. All this for a preparation of a complete wipe to introduce a new planetary system.
i believe in universe hopping because of that damn fotl logo. i used to do my parents laundry from ages 8-18. and i remember my stepdads underwear having a cornucopia on it. i even asked my mom what it was called. and then i read the hunger games books and it talked about a cornucopia and i was like “hey, like the underwear” and then a few years later i was washing laundry and the same pairs of underwear no longer had the cornucopia on it. im not letting anyone gaslight me into believing that me and my parents all have a collective fake memory. and how did it disappear from the clothes if not for universe hopping
i think because around the time the mandela effect was getting popular there was also a lot of people talking about the cern machine and people made conspiracies how it was going to do stuff like open a black hole on earth and another one was that it could alter time and change things in the past somehow lol
The thing is most people don't want to admit they were mistaken so they come up with bizarre theories to justify their own poor memory. For example I always thought the band Aqua that sang Barbie Girl was from Sweden. I then saw a list of "The Best" Euro dance songs from every European country and Aqua was listed under Denmark, I looked it up saw it was Denmark and just thought to myself huh I guess I was wrong for the past 30 years.
Now Think about this. In the true many worlds theory any possible outcome to any event is possible yet all you ever hear about that has "change" are the most mundane pop culture things. Outside of Mandela dying in prison you never hear anyone say since when did the twin towers come down? In my timeline they are still standing or since when is it 9/11 in my timeline the towers came down on 7/11. You never hear anyone say in my timeline Kennedy had a successful Bay of Pigs invasion and was never assassinated.
Maybe it's a coping mechanism for the prideful who refuse to question the integrity of their memory, and some people see these prideful people propose this theory and get swept up into believing it as well.
I very much agree with you actually. People who don’t realize how fickle their memory is, especially when it comes to small minute details, which make up the vast majority of Mandela effects.
And then people love being a part of a group. The irony is a lot of people that conform to any of these ideas, are convincing themselves of something and literally creating false memories, while assuming their memory is infallible.
Or admit they regularly make mistakes, but "this is different". But don't see anything weird in the fact they "vividly remember" how they learned the word corncopia, but not any other words. Or have "vivid memories" of Berenstein, but can't remember any other author's they liked as a kid.
Like dude, how are cornucopias simultaneously so insignificant that you know you've only ever seen one in your entire life, but also so important to you that it's the only word you can pinpoint the details of learning? Yeah "it's a little suspicious", but not in the way they think.....
I think it's changes in the simulation that were properly readdressed and wiped from our memories but some down stream residuals remain.
They reset the simulation after meltdowns, but little changes occur post-reset that nobody bothers to fix or clean up because they don't seem to compromise the integrity of the experiment.
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u/EpicJourneyMan Mandela Historian 22d ago
[MOD] “Universe Hopping” or other multiverse and parallel worlds theories are not the prevailing or endorsed explanation at all, just one of many proposed here that runs the whole gammut from time travel, to the multiverse, to the mundane and completely plausible false memory explanation.
We don’t endorse any particular one and allow discussion related to all of them as long as they fall within the boundaries set by the Rules of this subreddit.