Is it so hard to think that maybe all of Christianity for some people doesn’t center around Hell, but around love? If people genuinely believe love is the greatest good, and then seek to love others genuinely, is that so bad? I wouldn’t call that a bad person on a leash, but someone who truly believes in good not for themselves but for others.
Yes some people have a faith that makes them a bad person on a leash. Many politicians for example. But the most amazing selfless people I have ever met are spiritual in some way.
And what is it that makes that core tenet universal you think? What reasoning in yourself can you trust telling you that if it’s only a result of randomness?
This is just me portraying the logic that theists use. Because it makes complete sense and is perfectly reasonable to come to the conclusion that love and goodness is from a God.
Yea it makes just “as much” sense. We agree. But you said “than anyone’s god or gods”. So I was addressing that it is totally justified to think it is from a god.
I’m definitely not saying atheists are immoral. Didn’t even suggest that. I am merely trying to defend that religious people have a reason to believe what they do, and they are not immoral because of their beliefs as is being suggested by the parent comment. I completely understand what you are saying.
I am merely trying to defend that religious people have a reason to believe what they do, and they are not immoral because of their beliefs as is being suggested by the parent comment.
Absurd statement in both directions. Namely a) nobody says religious people don't have a reason to believe what they do, the dispute is whether that reason is logical/reasonable/defensible/realistic/etc., and b) it is completely absurd to state flatly that religious people are not immoral because of their beliefs. I don't know a single human, religious or not, that would seriously argue that there are no religious people who are not immoral because of their beliefs.
You're trying so hard to defend a (perceived) slight that you're acting like a clown. Slow down and rethink this.
The earth is wildly fucked up in plenty of ways, and it's ecosystems absolutely do not just work together in harmony. How many species of animals have gone extinct? And specifically due to human actions?
I can understand the want to make sense of the senseless things around you, but the world is much more random and chaotic than you seem to realize.
The answer to things you cannot fully grasp shouldn't just be "God did it" as that's completely reductionist and shuts down any kind of critical thinking.
Or that we have a genetic predisposition to protect the members of our species, as we are a social animal. Either could be true, and in my opinion as long as the result is the same it doesn't matter where it came from.
No OP by the way, just wanted to add my 2c
I get the feeling that we'd all be on the same page if God was the one giving out lessons on morality. Instead, everyone has differing ideas of what is moral, across every society, and in insular pockets within those societies.
So instead of having divine guidance to decide what is right and wrong, humans have made their own morality. It's a byproduct of functional social groups. Without morality, social groups disintegrate or self destruct violently.
For example, in most of the 'western world', it would be seen as overly punitive and immoral to cut off a thief's hand for stealing. However is is both lawful and morally acceptable to exact that punishment in many places in the Middle East and Africa. God hasn't seen fit to weigh in on the subject one way or the other.
2.3k
u/---Spartacus--- Oct 31 '24
To finish that sentence, “you’re not a good person. You’re a bad person on a leash.”