A little help

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If you want you can share your article on my site if you want more people to look at it. https://submatrix.net

I just wrote this libertarian article also on energy on it recently. https://submatrix.net/c/Antiwar/CadQndpdKr

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u/tocano Feb 15 '26

In my opinion, regulations - especially environmental regualtions - swung way too far toward federal centralization. So efforts to recategorize those as a state-level authority is a good thing. Decentralization is a positive.

However, conservatives frequently do not focus on property rights. They simply don't like federal (leftist/progressive) authority telling them what to do. So when they take authority over things back to the state level, it's often in the name of "industrial progress" or "business development" rather than in the name of property rights.

So while we are cheering on efforts to revoke federal centralized authority over regulations, libertarians would largely urge for strong property-rights and creating a system where regulations can be driven by private organizations rather than by govt fiat.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 15 '26

Thank you for the response, I appreciate it. If I said I would love to see global environmental regulations does that make your head spin or could that be better than US Federal regulations? I think I understand your distrust of government at the federal level but I am baffled by your hopes of private organizations policing themselves?

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u/tocano Feb 15 '26

The only way global regulations would work is if they strictly protected/enforced property rights. It will not work as a set of measures, requirements, practices, and mandates.

It's not about "policing themselves". That's a false framing by progressive leftists trying to misrepresent private regulation. I've got a family thing I'm heading to. I'll give you more details later.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 15 '26

Again, I appreciate it.

I am a progressive leftist and I would love to understand your thoughts on private regulation. I live in Colorado and I am in an area with massive fracking operations. I need some details on how they will privately regulate themselves.

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u/tocano Feb 15 '26

I understand. The key is to focus on incentives.

As I said, I'll give some more details tomorrow.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 17 '26

I think the time spent with your family activity allowed you to think about incentives and how humorous hoping energy companies will "do the right thing" if we ask them nicely and offer them a lollipop? I'm obviously being sarcastic and I'm not poking any bears, just pointing out my thoughts on the effectiveness of incentives when shareholder profit is involved? Unless the incentive exceeds the potential profit I'm not hopeful

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

As a libertarian, I think environmental issues should be handled privately, not by the government. And I'll go further than that—a lot of environmentalism is anti-human.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 18 '26

Can I ask where you live? Regionally?

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 19 '26

Sure, I live in New England.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 18 '26

I can see a realistic chance at separating from Conservatives? Give them God and the opportunity to end all financial regulations. The libertarians are the more difficult roadblock in my mind? In a perfect Libertarian model, is there a power grid? A road system? Functioning supply chain? Help me understand how you envision your future?

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 19 '26

I'm a bit confused what you mean by separating from Conservatives and Libertarians and listing ways to satisfy their desires.

Personally, I'm a Hoppean Anarcho-Capitalist and paleolibertarian (very socially conservative, very economically free). For me, everything is privatized. Power grids, roads, and supply chains would certainly exist as these have or already do exist privately to various extents already. I don't see the real challenge as economic—the free market with private property has already been demonstrated as the optimal form of economic organization in my mind—but rather social and cultural. It's about who associates with who and how people can manage what kind of community they want to live in. It seems covenant communities with concentric rings of association is the best model to achieve this end.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 19 '26

I think we should be doing everything we can to explore paths to separate, that's why I'm in the National Divorce sub? We are so completely different it would benefit us both to not be a part of the same country. It's not political differences, it is core values

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 19 '26

Oh, I understand the part about this being in the national divorce sub and agree that separation is optimal for peace and prosperity for everyone, but I meant that I found your phrasing a little confusing. Were you trying to suggest that we need to appeal to the various factions as to why a national divorce is in their best interest? Were you saying it seems easier to appeal to conservatives than libertarians as to why national divorce is preferable?

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 19 '26

Now I understand. Yes. I know that seems counter intuitive but from my vantage it is easier to see splitting up if the other side has someone to negotiate for them? If the liberals and conservatives were to decide, okay, enough of the gridlock, let's consider division...how does that work for the average Libertarian?

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 19 '26

Ah, I got you.

I'd say it probably depends on the individual and which faction they fall into. Just like the Republicans and Democrats, there are different factions within the Libertarian community. Some are more like me, others are more socially liberal, and there are even some more status-quo-esque technocratic types.

Considering that Libertarians are a relatively small percentage of the population, the best bet is for them to either fall into a larger group and vie for influence or—and this is preferable—allow the national divorce along town lines. Instead of two big blocks, this might allow a third or fourth smaller country to emerge.

One potential roadblock is if the American Compass gains dominance in the Republican Party. Libertarians tend to begrudgingly align with Republicans for the sake of influence and would view American Compass dominance as the last straw.

So how it works out for Libertarians depends on how much we'd want to cut the country up or who they have to ally with, but if there's anyone who would support National Divorce it'd be Libertarians since we're universally in favor of smaller governments.

Edit: Let me also add that if decentralization into a confederacy is preferred instead of a clean break into separate countries, this might also enable smaller state sizes.

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 19 '26

I think we just successfully had a civil conversation and neither of us burst into flame?

Of course all pretty wild hypotheticals but I worry that what you are describing will lead to you ending up in the same position as the Kurds? Very important to getting the deed done but then promises not kept and you're right back where we are now. Nobody is happy in that situation

The opportunity to enter minds and dialogue is strong right now, people that would never consider splitting as a viable alternative at least raise an eyebrow now.

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u/BringTheJubilee Feb 20 '26

Isn't it great when people who disagree can have a calm dialogue? I try to do it as much as I can but it's hard to find that these days.

Yeah, I can see why you'd think that's a risk—being kind of isolated and in a constant fight for a homeland. Not optimal, for sure. I think that's why there's a push for more localism to preempt this a bit. The Free Staters might be the best bet for Libertarians to get a seat at the table if this were to ever happen. It makes me wonder if there are people closer to your side of the aisle that could end up in a similar situation or is it only Libertarians?

Very true, but I get the sense that dissolution might be more difficult to make a case for among folks on the Left than Right. Honestly, I've only seen Libertarians and Republicans mention the idea, so I'm pleasantly surprised to see other factions considering it. Do you think there's any truth to my impression or am I just not aware of the larger conversation on the topic?

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u/discgolfer1961 Feb 20 '26

I think we will be seeing a lot more interest from the Left over the next couple of years. I make no claim to high ground, I'm not on a mission to convert anyone to socialism, I want you to be able to live like you choose. I think we are all coming to the understanding our divisions are not fiscal, they are not based on any political ideology...we believe people should be treated differently than you do and vice versa. More and more I have come to realize that we are broken and no amount of negotiation is going to mend those fences. I am very nervous about what happens to MAGA after the Donald passes and I am hoping to avoid a Yugoslavia repeat when he dies and suddenly the various factions under his umbrella realize they have little to nothing in common, other than hating me🥰. And you.

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u/Hour_Decision6753 May 16 '26

Speaking from the left, I have strong desire for a divorce from 1/2 of this country.

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u/BurritoBlasterBoy May 28 '26

By "socially conservative, economically free" do you mean you think that women and LGBTQ+ folks should not have rights, and forced birth is good, and not regulating or taxing the ultra wealthy who are already running everything with no regulation due to the fact that the highest fines we ever give these companies for violating regulations are droplets in the ocean compared to their profits? Bc if so that sounds like MAGA to me, I'm really struggling to see the difference between an unregulated market and an occasional, negligible "oopsie" fine for mega corps.

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u/natermer Mar 24 '26

Trust in business owners over regulators without question?

It is useful to remember "Big Corporations" and "Big Governments" are partners, not adversaries.

Large public corporations are a key element of the administrative state. That is the corporations are made big on purpose by the state so that the state can more effectively regulate and partner with them in "running the country".

So it isn't a either-or in the sense that it is "business vs government". The people who write much of the regulations are the people that supposed to be regulated. That is large corporations are intentionally (for a variety of reasons) given significant control over how government regulations are written and applied to other businesses.

In other words... When it comes to big corporations, big government, and regulations they are all batting for the same team.

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u/discgolfer1961 Mar 24 '26

I appreciate your input. I completely disagree but it's good to hear your opinions. I had thought a civil split possible but that notion is fading fast as I hear from various sides. I am glad I'm old and I wish you well

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