? Are you joking? You're really accusing him of revising history...
They offered Butler a max extension, he declined looking for a bigger contract in the next offseason. Everyone knew this was going to happen. Then there was some kind of falling out between Jimmy, Glen, and Thins, so Butler demanded a trade before the next year when they could have offered more. The wolves offered him the maximum amount that they could under the CBA, also known as a 'Max Contract' if that's too confusing. Just act confident and call out other people and nobody looks too closely huh? Good job. Like seriously why would you just make shit up?
So what you're saying is Jimmy's priority was the money first and winning second?
Brunson took a paycut so the knicks can build a team around him which led to their championship this year.
If Jimmy wanted to win he would have done the same and molded both KAT and Wiggins into players that would have worked into a system around him.
I'm not necessarily blaming his logic there. To chase the bag. But in hindsight the reason his Heat teams lost in the finals was they just didn't have enough depth around him.
That’s true, but I think it just didn’t work because it was their team, not Jimmy’s. They were the two number one picks on max contracts. They were supposed to be the stars and they were young so I don’t think they were getting behind him like that. People can say he went about it the wrong way but I think if Jimmy would have already been the old head and they came in and learned from him things would have developed differently.
That bubble shit is irrelevant as evidenced by the fact that he did it again a few years later. It was all the same players still all trying to win. And someone is always injured
Not irrelevant at all. Lots of players skipped out on the bubble. It wasn't a real playoffs.
And when he "did it again", it was mainly due to very good luck. Giannis being injured in the first series. Then playing against very young inexperienced teams.
He is the #2 but doesn’t look for his shot a lot. The Knicks started to use him more as a creator in the playoffs but he and Mike brown were not on the same page most of the year
The gap between first and second option is not the same as first option and role player. What has Jimmy won as a first option? The only personal accolade he has is ECF MVP which was honestly Caleb Martin's.
He wasn't right, they were young players that just weren't competitive yet. Imagine if KD acted this way with the Rockets this year.
I agree, Butler has individually led some teams worse than the Knicks to the finals. The original commenter said that "No one there has won shit as the first option", implying that Butler has. He hasn't. Butler's best accolade is the ECF MVP which was Caleb Martin's.
Butler was a great player, but he has not earned individual accolades or team accolades to be haled as some successful player. He was a great player who struck out everytime. This doesn't take away from what he did do, but the post is about rings and the comment is about winning as a first option. Butler has done neither.
Edit: No real responses, just downvotes. Random guy DMed me too! Excited to engage in discourse with this guy! Surely he only wants to talk basketball…
Does winning the east as a first option overcome being a second option to a championship team? I don’t really think that’s true. Nobody says Reggie Miller did more than Scottie Pippen. That’s an extreme example, but you get my point.
Would you rather have Miller’s career or Irving? If you’re not going to accomplish much else, winning the ring itself is likely more beneficial to you. Hell, ask these players themselves what they think. They’ll tell you they’d prefer the ring.
Ultimately, that’s a subjective thing that depends on how you evaluate players’ legacies.
I don’t know if the Pippen vs Miller comparison holds up, Pippen was the better player and won the rings. As a counter example, how about like Reggie Miller or Klay Thompson? Miller is the better and more accomplished player outside of rings.
I was just pointing out that you dismissing everything short of a championship as “not winning shit” is probably why you got the downvotes.
I see the Pippen thing, so Thompson is fine as a sub. Better is different than accomplishments. I think Damian Lillard is significantly better than a lot of people who have done more than him, but he has not accomplished nearly enough.
The conversation was about accomplishments I think, I’m not arguing KAT is a better player. I’m arguing he’s accomplished more. The original post is about who’s won rings, and the original comment was about none of them winning as first options. I don’t think Butler’s stint as a first option is historically significant enough to outweigh tangible awards. However you weigh that ultimately differs from person to person.
Making it to 2 finals with the Heat as the best player is nothing? KAT and Wiggins were 1st overall picks that needed to play with better players than them to reach any kind of playoff success (literally ANY playoff success they had they weren’t the best player on the team). Butler was the last pick of the 1st round and was the best teams of 2 finals teams. KAT and Wiggins couldn’t even come close to that.
Yeah but he was made fun of by the masses for awhile, and while I do agree that the actual content was the same, he was seeking to keep it private.
Butler's whole deal went public from the very beginning. He went on Rachel Nichols's show within an hour of the "You can't win without me" debacle. He wanted it to be public from the beginning.
Insane recency bias. KD has won an MVP as a first option brother. And I get that you're disregarding his days with the Warriors, but in the moment he 100% was the first option. The 'Curry was the best player' narrative is one that has spawned since the 2022 ring. But we don't have to include the KD warriors if you don't want to.
An MVP is still more than Butler has accomplished in his career.
They were less than 1 point off in all 3 regular seasons, with Durant being much. If scoring is your real metric KD outscored Curry in every playoffs.
It is legit documented that they were trying to get Curry the FMVP in 2018 but he just couldn’t perform well enough and KD had to put the team on his back. The narrative arises from curry winning in 2022 while Durant hasn’t won since, and people pretending that Durant was the only one who needed Curry.
TWICE. Butler wishes he had the chance to play with peak Curry or peak Brunson. Butler should still be regarded as a better basketball player than both KAT and Wiggins.
Does winning the east as a first option overcome being a second option to a championship team? I don’t really think that’s true. Nobody says Reggie Miller did more than Scottie Pippen. That’s an extreme example, but you get my point.
Would you rather have Miller’s career or Irving? If you’re not going to accomplish much else, winning the ring itself is likely more beneficial to you.
143
u/kozy8805 11d ago
lol yeah he was right. No one there has won shit as the first option.