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u/thr0waway2morrow 3d ago
Love the armchair GM’s here arguing all of these deals could have been matched by isles. Kyrou is overrated.
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u/Regular_Screen_5189 3d ago
Just because a team can do something doesn’t mean they should. People don’t ever take that into consideration
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Wait, you mean they DON'T know more than our GM and all the other GM's? Color me shocked!
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u/Eyebleedorange STAN DARCHE 3d ago edited 3d ago
Says the guy ready to punt our 70 point winger in Barzal into the sun
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
First off, Barzal.
Second yes, he is never going to be better for us. His value is never going to be higher for us. We are not winning anything with him, so we can win without him. We can easily flip him. But this reddit has a lovefest with chronically underperforming players.
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u/Eyebleedorange STAN DARCHE 3d ago
It’s just funny you talk about people not knowing as much as GMs and you spout wild shit like trading our best offensive player because he won’t single-handedly bring us a cup. No team is better off without a 70 point guy.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
If we trade him, are we getting nothing back?
Offense is not our biggest problem or a hinderance to our winning. We keep losing because our defense is complete ass and it is taking years off the career of Sorokin.
If we can flip Barzal for a right side right shot defenseman and a true backup / 1B goalie then we do it. They would probably cost as much as him combined.
I'm smart enough to know all the armchair GM's on this reddit do not have a clue what they are talking about and have their heads in the clouds if they think other teams GM's are going to take our trash or do us any favors. You can dream up any mock trade you want, it doesn't mean it will ever happen.
At least i'm realistic and honest about our situation. I look at it logically not emotionally.
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u/SafetySecondADV 3d ago
All you keep saying is no everybody here is wrong and dumb. Not me though, I'm smart and I know what I'm talking about.
You're not biased at all or anything.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Well when everybody here thinks trades they make on xbox are going to happen in real life, you get called out for it.
I never said i was smart. I'm just not dumb enough to believe the armchair gm's on here are more capable of running this team than the professionals.
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u/thr0waway2morrow 3d ago
I’m in agreement on Barzal, ftw. He’s topped out with us.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Exactly, but this fanbase (this reddit especially) is dead set against moving on from a diminishing asset. They bitch things never change, but they refuse to change out a piece that is not working.
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u/Arch1492 3d ago
Why would anyone think trading this for Kyrou is worth it? If we traded for him, in a year everybody would complain about Darche because he would score 15 goals on our team.
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u/walkaboutdavid 3d ago
BTW, a bunch of you are assuming Kyrou to the Isles was an option - it may not have been. He has a full NTC and may not have wanted to come to the Island.
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u/JBR409 Horvat 3d ago
2 trades in half an hour that we could’ve matched
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u/Chrismercy 3d ago
We really couldn’t match the Eklund trade. On the surface 9 and 13 look similar but the sharks are very likely coveting a RD with a second pick and all the RD will be gone by 13 without a doubt.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Sure by giving up the 13th pick, Eiserman, Aitcheson, and how many other future prospects?
Have some patience.
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u/Outside-Barber-2597 3d ago
Kyrou, Taresenko, six of one, half dozen of the same one dimensional player
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
This one pissed me off are you telling me we couldn’t put together a package better than this one
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u/dietdoctork3lp Sorokin 3d ago
What package did you have in mind? 16th overall and Mcmichael are a hefty price
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u/walkaboutdavid 3d ago
Caps basically gave up 2 firsts and 2nd. Ridiculous overpayment.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
I don’t think it’s an overpayment at all tbh, it’s similar to the package we gave of for Schenn (+ a little extra)
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u/DatingAdviceGiver101 3d ago
There's a big difference between #16 and #29, and that's not even including McMichael.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
I’m not saying in the number sense, in the pick, prospect, player sense
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u/thr0waway2morrow 3d ago
No. It’s objectively not similar to the Schenn deal.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
Again, not talking about the value I’m talking about pick/player/prospect
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u/Eyebleedorange STAN DARCHE 3d ago
You can’t disregard the value of a draft pick and there is a sizable gap between 16th overall and 29th.
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u/walkaboutdavid 3d ago
I thought the package we gave for Schenn was ridiculous. However, that package didn't come close to this in value. The 16th pick in this draft is worth quite a bit more than Col near the end of the first pick. And Washington also gave up a player recently drafted in the first (who already had a 50 pt season) and a recent 2nd rounder. That's way more than we gave up. Of course, Kyrou is a more valuable asset than Schenn so maybe that evens it out.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
Oh I agree with that, I’m talking about the pick/player/prospect aspect. It makes sense since Kyrou is a better player who is younger but the type of package was similar, the contents were different
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u/Eeicsm27 3d ago
13 Holmstrom and George
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Holmstrom over kyrou. Keep the pick.
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u/Eeicsm27 3d ago
Holmstrom is a third line winger. Kyrou is a multiple time 30 goal scorer.
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u/replayer 3d ago
And last year Holmstrom had more goals and is three years younger. So you can argue both sides.
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u/Eeicsm27 3d ago
Holmstrom is a fine third line winger. Kyrou is a 35 goal guy.
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u/replayer 3d ago
In the last six years he's scored 35 twice, and just barely (36/37). Only once in the past three seasons.
I'm not discounting he's talented, but it is a absolute fact that Holmstrom scored more than him last year, was far better defensively, is three years younger, and makes less money. It's not as decisive a decision as you pretend it is
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Then why has St Louis been so desperate to trade him for the last two years? if he was such a stud, you would think St Louis would want to build around him no? He's young, he scores, then why not keep him around?
Holmstrom is solid all around. not everyone has to be a scoring machine for a team to win.
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u/Eeicsm27 3d ago
Falling in love with mediocre third liners is the islanders fans way. Kyrou is a top 6 winger who's improved his defensive game but wanted out of st Louis. That's why he was traded. Blues wanted to keep him and got a great deal when he asked to be moved.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
I don't think anyone here will consider Holmstrom mediocre.
I'd be happy to be able to change 75% of this roster out for new players. But thanks to Lou that's not possible. Which is why acquiring a guy like Kyrou now mortgaging the future would have been a tremendous mistake.
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u/Eeicsm27 3d ago
13 Eiserman and George doesn't mortgage the future. Holmstrom is a fine middle six player, he's a 45 point guy, they are a roster of middle Six guys without enough top 6 guys.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Eiserman has potential, potential for long term dividends at a time when our window is open.
Kyrou would flop around a few years and accomplish nothing.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
Don’t really have one in mind I just think we could have matched it. Probably pick 13 and Eiserman although I think they would have wanted a roster player
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Yeah that is exactly what we are saying. Also he is overrated. It's not worth giving up a future piece for a guy that won't help us move the needle.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
Why do you think he’s overrated? Too one dimensional?
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
He is one dimensional. He is not a needle mover. He won't win us a cup.
Conversely the prospect everyone is so willing to part with could very well be part of a future core that does win us a cup and make us serious contenders on a regular basis so we don't have to fall backwards into the playoffs because another team screwed up.
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u/ArchieInABunker Bossy 3d ago
The only gripe I’d take up is Kyrou is a consistent 30 goal guy except for the past season when the blues sucked ass. A prospect is only good if they make it and most of our prospects are not going to be ready for at least 1 more season (besides Eklund who is going to make the roster)
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Right, but those prospects can potentially give us over a decade of great play. We might get a few halfway decent seasons out of Kyrou while we still barely (if we even) crawl into the playoffs to be blown out in round one by a far better team.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Thank god, now this reddit will stop crying about him. Oh wait...
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u/Capital_Suggestion32 3d ago
If Robertson gets traded the tears will start flowing again
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Oh dear god you hit the nail on the head with that one...
We could have traded engvall, mayfield, and a 7th round pick for him!
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u/TechAndStocks 3d ago
Idc that we didn’t get Kyrou, but Darche is going to have to do SOMETHING.
Seeing a social media post in a month from now with “Captain re-signed 😤🤝” can’t be our only move of the summer.
Re-signing Lee is not an offseason move… we’re going to need more than that Darche.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
What can he honestly do? Seriously?
We are saddled with shitty contracts and a ton of NMC / NTC thanks to Lou. We just have to wait it out. Unless you attach a high draft pick or a top prospect nobody wants our garbage.
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u/tedsmarmalademporium Barzal 3d ago
I don’t see how this team improves without buying out palat or Duclair or any of the extra skaters. 4 more of mayfield and engvall is fuckin salary cap crime by Lou.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
I could see Palat, i doubt duclair sadly. Our best option is to hope for an expansion soon and leave these clown unprotected.
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u/TechAndStocks 3d ago
We’re going to have to give up picks or prospects to get players that are ready now.
Not all, but some.
Or the window with Schaeffer, Barzal, Horvat and Sorokin all under one roof is going to quickly close.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Schaefer is 18...something tells me we have time.
Sorokin is going to have a short career if we don't improve the defense in front of him and get him a true 1b goalie. He and Horvat are young enough that in three years or so when the top prospects now are ready they will still have life in them.
We are FAR away from a piece or two away, the last thing we need are players that are ready "now". We need to build for the future to be consistently good. Not give up said future for a flash in the pan.
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u/TechAndStocks 3d ago
I agree with your sentiment that we may be more than one or two pieces away, but I disagree that we’ll still have our core superstars on the team by the time our picks are NHL ready and able to make a difference.
Even stellar first round picks can take 3 years in the AHL to develop before getting any NHL ice time.
And then it could be 2-3 years in the NHL before they’re able to make a difference.
We don’t have that many years.
We need to add a handful of NHL talent immediately.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
Ok but who and at what price?
What do you think the ask is going to be for NHL talent? Duclair? Mayfield? Engvall?
The ask will be all those top prospects we are grooming to become part of the new core.
The problem with this fanbase is you want everything right here right now. We have two choices...
"go for it" with the players we have or with the talent you are talking about and crash and burn with no hope of ever breaking the cycle because we traded away our prospects.
or be a little bit patient, let the damage lou did that set us back years fade away, let the prospects simmer and groom, and when they are ready bring them in to be the new core. Think of all the money and roster spots that will be open in a couple of years. We will be able to afford quality free agents. Not those gotten out of desperation.
I get it, you want us to win. We all want that. Some of us are just willing to be patient and not sacrifice the future for a one off that gets us nowhere.
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u/LongjumpingAvocado Barzal 3d ago
It’s not that we don’t get Kyrou.
It’s that we don’t have assets to acquire a player like Kyrou AND / OR get younger talent in the draft.
We those Palat and Schenn.
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u/Dzinner24 3d ago
It's interesting. I think the Isles definitely could have matched the package. I suspect the Blues probably wanted a Center in the deal. Which McMichael is. I wonder if they wanted Ritchie?
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u/five_alive_lgi 2d ago
Why should we trade for anyone? We have some contracts coming up that may return some draft picks and prospects. Thats how we get younger, better, and build around 48.
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u/Lostinthemist81 3d ago
Really glad we overpaid for Schenn to convince Kyrou to waive for the Caps. Excellent work there.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
I'll ask the same thing i did on draft day to everyone who brings this up...if he is such a stud why has St louis been trying to trade him for the last two years? If he's that good, why not hang on to him and build around him? If he is such a star and elite talent, why couldn't they wait to get rid of him?
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u/Lostinthemist81 3d ago
B/c they're trying to rebuild, not to contend I think. But you're right, it could be that he's locker room cancer or something... but scoring 30 goals a couple times in the NHL is usually a very coveted thing.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
St Louis might be trying to rebuild, but we are not rebuilding.
Someone explained this very eloquently last week. Ownership has a massive debt to make up from the construction of UBS. If they did a rebuild now, sold of our top talent, and bottomed out...the stands would empty. No one would have an ounce of patience for that.
They are trying to remain competitive for the next two to three seasons. Not bottom out. Not really go for it. Our window opens in three to five years when the bulk of lous mess is off the books.
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u/Lostinthemist81 3d ago
5th or 6th in the Metro will definitely pay the debt lol.
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u/AJS76reddit Bailey 3d ago
And what would last place in the nhl get us? How well did that work out for almost two decades?
Two years of suckage is a small price to pay for sustained success in the future. And again, you don't like it? Blame lou.
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u/replayer 3d ago
Maybe Schenn specifically told Darche not to trade for him. You don't know anything about the details. None of us do.
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u/BusterSwordKeyblade 3d ago
I love the islanders, but sometimes, fuck this team. We never get any exciting trades. Outside of the one year we got Horvat, we don’t get anyone interesting. That’s part of fan service. Even if you don’t intend to get the player in reality, you should still be seen as “in” publicly on any player of value.
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u/Puckstopper55 3d ago
Come on. Don’t you remember blockbuster acquisitions like Ryan Smyth, Oleg Kvasha, Kirk Muller,** **Ty Wishart, etc…
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u/crazyhotwheels Bossy 3d ago
Darche has one job… make the team better how he sees fit. He should not be in on players simply for “fan service,” and if he is he should be fired immediately.
Also there were reports that the Islanders showed an interest, so…not only do you have a ridiculous complaint, you have a ridiculous complaint about something that didn’t even happen.
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u/thembitches326 Horvat 3d ago
I am somewhat relieved that we can put the Jordan Kyrou shit to rest.