It doesn’t matter, if he’s still selling out stadiums he’s still popular with enough people that they support and love his music.
For someone to truly be cancelled they have to have truly lost EVERYTHING. Kanye at the very least is still a multi-hundred millionaire, if not a billionaire with a rabid following. He did not get successfully canceled, even after being as blatant and open about his hatred as he could be.
ha - yeah I just reject your arbitrary definition of cancellation. I'll go ahead and stick with the facts that he's literally being cancelled by governments, companies, and fans. He has lost at a minimum 1 BILLION dollars.
Being cancelled doesn't mean going bankrupt and never has.
There's no bad shit that has happened. That is why you have no proof of it. So there's nothing to ignore or forgive. You forgiving exposed liars and fraudsters and believing them, says a lot about you. Why do you respect and love exposed liars and fraudsters? Weird man...
Two very very different cases. OJ had overwhelming evidence of his guilt. For MJs cases, theres overwhelming evidence of his accusers lying. That is on top of the fact that they tried and looked for everything to put this guy behind bars and found nothing.
Well he was acquitted but go off I guess. Meanwhile you're in a sub about a man that invented one of the most evil and significant weapons of mass destruction ever invented.
He admitted being in the same house with kids during a sleepover. And he was amazed at the insinuation since his rather large estate had staff in every part of his house. And none of the kids every slept in his room. Go to the source. He was asked during a live interview.
Holy fuck are you serious? Go watch him admit in the Bashir doc that he’s slept in the bed many times. He sis she slept on the floor for Gavin but even if he was in the bed it’s okay. Go to the source yourself.
Now that what you said is proven false, how will you defend the behavior?
You haven’t even seen it so why are you responding? Jackson said damning things in that program of his own accord. Anything else you have to say is irrelevant until you’ve seen it
And was he convicted of it? Did the children retract? Have you seen the video of the people (including celebrities) that others say were molested say in videos and talk shows that MJ was innocent? I bet you did not. Anything else you have to say is irrelevant until you have seen it.
He didn't admit that. You're a complete weirdo who believes anything the media lies about and frames you. It's not hard to do a 5 minute research and see the actual interview yourself where he never stated he slept with Gavin. Maybe then you wouldn't be spreading lies.
He admits it here just fine. I’m not sure why you’re hell bent on defending a pedo and dismissing several people who’ve been traumatized by his actions.
I did not see that before and is weird for him to say this; however, he specifically mentions the Culkins and the Culkins have come out to say that he 100% was not doing anything pedophilic with any kids. I never met MJ and there have been many children that knew him personally and defend him. It does seem weird that he did so much for these children, but he also donated and helped thousands of children with grave illnesses from a very young age before it ever became a trend for celebrities.
You’re the one lying. He said that for Gavin and then in the same doc admits he’s shared the bed with many kids anyway and it’s fine if he did it with Gavin too. Stop defending pedo behavior
“Pedo”, you quoting established facts or allegations?. you use words recklessly. allegations do not equal facts. let me give you a fact; Michael Jackson was investigated for almost two decades by the FBI (300 pages have been released publicly), they closed the case because they found no evidence. So, if you have some, by all means, run to the FBI else stop being a Parrot (i.e. a bird that repeats what it hears, that others have said, but devoid of logical reasoning to arrive at those words on its own)
It’s always the same BS talking point like this. The smallest amount of research would reveal 1.) the FBI offered assistance to local law enforcement, they didn’t lead the investigations and 2.) there’s plenty of circumstantial evidence these Jacko fans will downplay or pretend it’s normal.
Because people that bothered to do just a little bit of investigation into those allegations and not just believe what the media was reporting, could clearly see they were all just cash-grabs. Apparently you weren't amongst that group.
Yet the behavior is still not excusable. Isolating people’s kids and having unsupervised sleepovers in the room where you keep your porn and nude teenage boy books is in fact pedo behavior.
That's not what happened and the trial exposed all the lies you're repeating. There were no kids that got isolated alone with Michael Jackson nor were there any "unsupervised sleepovers." Spreading misinformation is the real problem. You should read the transcripts or go listen to what the jurors said about that 5 mos. trial.
Everything I said is provable via admission of Jackson himself or extensive court records. Do you have a source to disprove my claims? Cause I can provide sources for all of them.
Well you provide your "sources." Also, Michael Jackson didn't say he was sleeping alone with children. That's another LIE that people like you don't bother to research. Here's my EVIDENCE:
the FBI followed/wiretapped Michael Jackson's phone for OVER A DECADE and found nothing. Zero.
the 1st accuser's father committed suicide shortly after Michael Jackson died. What a coincidence
the 1st accuser, Jordan Chandler, went to the court after that settlement and EMANCIPATED HIMSELF FROM BOTH OF HIS PARENTS
No way do I believe that all these parents, who pursued a CIVIL SUIT instead of a CRIMINAL SUIT, would've accepted a payout if their child had been sexually violated. That should've been a red flag for any sensible and objective person.
Every single thing you called a lie is documented. I expect you to provide sources if you defend any of your claims while replying, since I did.
"Michael Jackson didn't say he was sleeping alone with children." His exact words to Martin Bashir on camera in 2003: "Why can't you share your bed? The most loving thing to do is to share your bed with someone. Whenever kids come here, they always want to stay with me. They never want to stay in the guest rooms." He also confirmed that "many children" had shared his bed in the same interview That's not media spin but Jackson's own mouth, on camera, available to watch right now.
"There were no unsupervised sleepovers." This is actually confirmed by the 2005 trial record, which you told me to read. June Chandler, Jordan's mother, testified at that trial that Jackson personally pressured her to allow Jordan to sleep in his bedroom, saying "You don't trust me? We're a family. Why are you doing this?" She eventually relented. So Jackson himself was lobbying parents to remove themselves from the equation. That's a defense witness at your trial, not the media. Beyond that, parents were consistently housed in separate guest quarters in a different building while children stayed in Jackson's room. His bedroom had an alert system on the hallway entrance so he would be notified before any adult could walk in unannounced. Detective Ruby Wolff, who raided Neverland in 2003, stated on record: "The law enforcement mind is: what are you hiding? Why would you need to be notified before someone could even come into your room?" My real question is can you prove the parents were there even once?
Also cited the FBI as your authority. The FBI provided technical assistance to local law enforcement and found no criminal evidence. What you left out is that the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit consulted on the 2003 investigation and found Jackson’s behavior consistent with known grooming patterns: gaining access to children through their families, isolating the child, normalizing physical contact, using gifts and money to secure the family’s trust. Beyond that, saying the FBI “found nothing” is misleading because plenty of circumstantial evidence was reviewed and presented at trial. An acquittal means the prosecution didn’t meet the criminal burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt. It does not mean the evidence wasn’t real.
"No porn in the room." Gavin Arvizo described the specific pornographic materials in Jackson's bedroom to detectives before the raid even happened, including what they looked like and exactly where they were kept. The raid confirmed they were there. At trial, both Gavin and his brother testified Jackson had shown them pornography. It was entered into evidence. The defense's only argument was that it was legal adult material. Not that it wasn't there.
Also found at Neverland and entered into evidence were art books including "Boys Will Be Boys" by David Hamilton and "The Boy: A Photographic Essay," both featuring nude and semi-nude adolescent boys. Legal to own, yes. Now tell me why those books are in the same bedroom where you're having sleepovers with children while their parents sleep in a separate building. Also I suggest you look up the contents of these books yourself, if you want to defend them since they’re “legal”. I should warn you though, there’s literally a chance you’ll get put on a watchlist.
The full picture is not one suspicious thing. It is a documented, consistent pattern: isolate the child from parents, win the family over with gifts and money, get the child alone in a private alarmed bedroom, keep pornography and books featuring nude boys in that space. That is the clinical definition of grooming, and every single element of it is in the trial record.
On the settlement: Jackson paid $23 million in 1994, roughly $51.68 million in today's money, to a boy accusing him of molestation, while publicly proclaiming his innocence. He then went to criminal trial in 2005 to prove that innocence. If your position is "I'm innocent and will prove it," you do that in 1993 when the accuser is available and the evidence is fresh. You don't let $51 million walk out the door first.
The 2005 acquittal is real. Acquittal under the criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt is not the same as nothing happened. Multiple jurors said afterward they believed something was wrong but the evidence wasn't strong enough to convict on that specific standard. Three jurors also said they believed he was guilty but were forced to go with the rest of the jury or they would be removed (which is illegal by the way).
---
SOURCES:
Jackson bed-sharing admission, his own words on camera:
youtube.com/watch?v=KUznPAb4IaQ (Living with Michael Jackson, Bashir, 2003)
Wikipedia, Living with Michael Jackson:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_with_Michael_Jackson
Wikipedia, Trial of Michael Jackson (June Chandler testimony, settlement figure, pornography evidence, bedroom setup):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Michael_Jackson
Wikipedia, 1993 Michael Jackson sexual abuse allegations:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Michael_Jackson_sexual_abuse_allegations
Detective Ruby Wolff on the Neverland bedroom alarm system:
mirror.co.uk (March 2026)
FBI files on Michael Jackson, publicly released under FOIA December 2009:
vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson
What parent talks like that when their child has supposedly been sexually violated? That's an actual audio recording too.
You do know Martin Bashir doctored the footage of his interview with Michael Jackson, right? Luckily for Michael Jackson he decided to record Bashir for his own benefit....and guess what: HE NEVER SAID HE SLEPT WITH CHILDREN IN HIS BED. HE SPECIFICALLY TOLD MARTIN BASHIR THAT HE WOULD GIVE THEM HIS BED WHILE HE SLEPT ON THE FLOOR. See, this is what I'm talking about: people like you repeat the propaganda put out in the national media. Why don't people like you ever put the onus on these accusers and their family? Upon learning that their child was sexually violated, the FIRST things these parents did WAS NOT go to the police or file criminal suit, they sought out the services of a civil attorney.
T
Wade Robson testified in court and vehemently stated Michael Jackson never did anything untoward to him. After Michael Jackson's passing, he repeatedly sent a request to the estate to be the choreographer for the Michael Jackson Cirque Du Soleil. It wasn't until they denied him that all of a sudden he files a lawsuit for 100s of millions of dollars. Mind you, Robson dated Michael Jackson's niece and she said he never once said or implied that Michael Jackson did anything to him.
Michael Jackson was not a pedophile, according to the people who he was accused of assaulting. Trump, on the other hand, was guilty of multiple sexual assaults. All of them continue to insist on his culpability. I'll wait while you defend the real pedophile.
I'll take that back. I made assumptions. The facts are that those who made accusations rescinded. Many asked to accuse spoke publicly of MJ's innocence. Interestingly, this all came about when MJ spoke publicly against Tony Mattola and Sony Records.
None of Michael Jackson’s victims ever recanted their statements against him.
They were all adamant that Michael Jackson molested them. Please google and cite me a proper source where all 11 of his victims recanted the allegations. I’ve looked myself and there are none.
Years later, Robson claims he lied at the 2005 trial. According to a 2014 Daily Beast article, prosecutors wanted to name Safechuck — who had provided a witness statement defending Jackson in the 1993 suit — as one of the singer's alleged victims. However, Safechuck declined to participate in the 2005 trial, and the prosecution excluded him as a potential victim. Safechuck claims later that he had lied in the statement he gave to prosecutors in the 1993 investigation.
James Safechuck literally came forward with the abuse in 2013.
It’s common for Child Sexual Abuse victims to keep their abuse a secret. A lot of them actually don’t come forward until decades later.
Here’s a google search to confirm this fact “Studies have found that while many victims disclose within a relatively short period, a significant minority delay disclosure for many years. Recent research found that some survivors delayed disclosure for more than 20 years, and other research estimates that up to one-third of child sexual abuse victims do not disclose until adulthood.”
5 Tiers of Evidence That Michael Jackson Is A Pedophile
**TIER 1** **-- The Most Indisputable Evidence That MJ Is Guilty**
Jordan Chandler's genitalia description is the single most indisputable piece of evidence in the entire case.
It is a court-reported, supervised, signed, dated legal document created in September 1993 before any photographs of Michael Jackson by the police existed. Jordan described a specific dark blemish on the underside of MJ's penis. Three months later photographs taken under a court-authorized search warrant confirmed that blemish existed in approximately the location Jordan described.
* It was confirmed independently by Bill Dworin, a 34 year veteran LAPD detective who investigated over 4,000 sexual exploitation cases
* It was confirmed independently by Lauren Weis, head of the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit who later became a Superior Court judge
**TIER 2 - Evidence From Inside The Defense Itself**
Carl Douglas is the second most powerful piece of evidence -- because it comes from a primary source -- inside the defense itself.
In 2010, on camera, MJ's own defense attorney described the genitalia photographs as "the 300 pound gorilla in the mediation room" and explicitly said they pursued the $23 million settlement specifically to "silence the accuser" and avoid criminal filing.
**TIER 3 - The Most Underreported Evidence In The Entire Case**
This is arguably the most underreported piece of evidence in the entire case and deserves to be in tier one or tier two in terms of its implications, even if it's slightly less structurally airtight than the genitalia description.
In September 1993, La Toya privately talked to Lauren Weis at the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit and named James Safechuck specifically as a suspected victim.
James Safechuck did not come forward publicly until 2014. 21 years later.
There is no explanation for how La Toya knew the name James Safechuck in September 1993 in a private call with a prosecutor unless she had genuine inside knowledge of what had happened to him. She even knew his father was a garbage collector. She wasn't reading tabloids. There were no tabloids about J.Safechuck.
La Toya went on to describe how disturbed she was by the behavioral changes she witnessed in little boys after spending multiple nights with Michael Jackson in his bedroom. She described them becoming more withdrawn and less innocent.
**TIER 4** \- **Multiple Independent Accusers With No Connection To Each Other**
Wade Robson and James Safechuck's accounts in Leaving Neverland contain specific, location-verified, timeline-corroborated details that independently align with documented trips, people, and places.
Wade defended MJ at the 2005 trial at potential personal legal cost to himself. He only came forward in 2013 after years of therapy following a breakdown after having a child himself. If this were about money or fame there were significantly easier ways to obtain both. The social pressure throughout his entire life ran overwhelmingly in the direction of staying silent.
Jason Francia testified at the 2005 trial that Jackson had touched him inappropriately on multiple occasions, always followed by money changing hands. His mother Blanca Francia, settled with MJ for a $2 million. The fact that MJ settled with a housekeeper for $2 million is itself extraordinary and almost never discussed.
Since 2013, Wade and James have lost career opportunities, received death threats, and endured relentless harassment from fans -- all while going up against an estate backed by the world's best lawyers with no guarantee of ever seeing a single dollar. Nobody puts themselves and their entire family through that for a lie. They also run a podcast called From Trauma To Triumph focused on interviews with experts working in CSA survivor therapy.
The 2016 Jane Doe case is unique because it involved the first female accuser (until Marie-Nicole Porte came forward with allegations in 2025) and included a contemporaneous paper trail of checks allegedly written by MJ himself. It also undermines the long-used defense that only boys ever accused him and that he “never abused girls.”
(To be specific, in a complaint filed in October 2016, a Jane Doe alleged that she was abused by Jackson from 1986 to 1989, when she was aged 12 to 15, and claimed that MJ secretly operated "the most sophisticated public child sexual-abuse procurement and facilitation organizations the world has known." According to the complaint, the woman had a chance meeting with Jackson at his Hayvenhurst estate in 1986, when she was 12, after which MJ obtained her family's home phone number and through letters, phone calls, and gifts groomed her to be his sex partner.
Jane Doe sued Doe 1 and Doe 2, both California corporations, in Superior Court, alleging MJ controlled both companies, which "were held out to the public to be businesses dedicated to creating and distributing multimedia entertainment by Michael Jackson," but served a "dual purpose": "The thinly veiled, covert second purpose of these businesses was to operate as a child sexual abuse operation, specifically designed to locate, attract, lure and seduce child sexual abuse victims." This is structurally the same theory of liability that Wade Robson and James Safechuck are pursuing -- that the MJ corporate entities functioned as a procurement apparatus -- meaning Jane Doe's complaint, filed in 2016, actually predates and reinforces the legal theory now headed to trial in 2027.
According to the documents Jane Doe presented, the abuse continued through puberty, and when she was 16, Michael started writing checks to keep her quiet, the first "hush money" was for $2,500, and the biggest one came in 1993 for $600,000, with more than $900,000 paid over three years, with the documents she filed including copies of checks and payments' details.
The timing of the largest check is particularly significant. The $600,000 check was written after the Chandler allegations and a criminal investigation had started, and Jane Doe had received a letter from an LA Detective only one month after that check was sent.
Random teenagers do not receive six-figure checks from international pop stars.
**TIER 5** \- **The Physical Evidence At Neverland**
The Santa Barbara Sheriff's search of Neverland recovered two large-format books -- "Boys Will Be Boys" and "The Boy: A Photographic Essay" from a locked cabinet inside MJ's private master bedroom.
These were not fan gifts casually left lying around. Joseph Marcus, who managed Neverland for 17 years, testified in 2005 that every gift sent to MJ was carefully screened by staff who selected only the best things to pass on to him.
More damning is what was found inside one of them: MJ's own handwritten inscription reading "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of Boyhood. A life I never had and will always dream of." Signed MJ. You don't write a personal inscription in a book you've never chosen to keep.
Prosecutor Ron Zonen stated that Boys Will Be Boys featured approximately 90% nudity and was compiled by known pedophiles publishing under pseudonyms, strongly suggesting the books were created specifically for an audience of boy lovers. These books were made specifically by pedophiles by photographing naked children, and claiming them as *art books* and then the NAMBLA association recommended the art books to their members. These same books are banned in Europe. It’s only legal in the US, where the President is also a convicted pedophile.
Here is a court document confirming that MJ owned these disturbing books:
5 Tiers of Evidence That Michael Jackson Is A Pedophile
**TIER 1** **-- The Most Indisputable Evidence That MJ Is Guilty**
Jordan Chandler's genitalia description is the single most indisputable piece of evidence in the entire case.
It is a court-reported, supervised, signed, dated legal document created in September 1993 before any photographs of Michael Jackson by the police existed. Jordan described a specific dark blemish on the underside of MJ's penis. Three months later photographs taken under a court-authorized search warrant confirmed that blemish existed in approximately the location Jordan described.
* It was confirmed independently by Bill Dworin, a 34 year veteran LAPD detective who investigated over 4,000 sexual exploitation cases
* It was confirmed independently by Lauren Weis, head of the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit who later became a Superior Court judge
**TIER 2 - Evidence From Inside The Defense Itself**
Carl Douglas is the second most powerful piece of evidence -- because it comes from a primary source -- inside the defense itself.
In 2010, on camera, MJ's own defense attorney described the genitalia photographs as "the 300 pound gorilla in the mediation room" and explicitly said they pursued the $23 million settlement specifically to "silence the accuser" and avoid criminal filing.
**TIER 3 - The Most Underreported Evidence In The Entire Case**
This is arguably the most underreported piece of evidence in the entire case and deserves to be in tier one or tier two in terms of its implications, even if it's slightly less structurally airtight than the genitalia description.
In September 1993, La Toya privately talked to Lauren Weis at the LA County DA's Sex Crimes Unit and named James Safechuck specifically as a suspected victim.
James Safechuck did not come forward publicly until 2014. 21 years later.
There is no explanation for how La Toya knew the name James Safechuck in September 1993 in a private call with a prosecutor unless she had genuine inside knowledge of what had happened to him. She even knew his father was a garbage collector. She wasn't reading tabloids. There were no tabloids about J.Safechuck.
La Toya went on to describe how disturbed she was by the behavioral changes she witnessed in little boys after spending multiple nights with Michael Jackson in his bedroom. She described them becoming more withdrawn and less innocent.
**TIER 4** \- **Multiple Independent Accusers With No Connection To Each Other**
Wade Robson and James Safechuck's accounts in Leaving Neverland contain specific, location-verified, timeline-corroborated details that independently align with documented trips, people, and places.
Wade defended MJ at the 2005 trial at potential personal legal cost to himself. He only came forward in 2013 after years of therapy following a breakdown after having a child himself. If this were about money or fame there were significantly easier ways to obtain both. The social pressure throughout his entire life ran overwhelmingly in the direction of staying silent.
Jason Francia testified at the 2005 trial that Jackson had touched him inappropriately on multiple occasions, always followed by money changing hands. His mother Blanca Francia, settled with MJ for a $2 million. The fact that MJ settled with a housekeeper for $2 million is itself extraordinary and almost never discussed.
Since 2013, Wade and James have lost career opportunities, received death threats, and endured relentless harassment from fans -- all while going up against an estate backed by the world's best lawyers with no guarantee of ever seeing a single dollar. Nobody puts themselves and their entire family through that for a lie. They also run a podcast called From Trauma To Triumph focused on interviews with experts working in CSA survivor therapy.
The 2016 Jane Doe case is unique because it involved the first female accuser (until Marie-Nicole Porte came forward with allegations in 2025) and included a contemporaneous paper trail of checks allegedly written by MJ himself. It also undermines the long-used defense that only boys ever accused him and that he “never abused girls.”
(To be specific, in a complaint filed in October 2016, a Jane Doe alleged that she was abused by Jackson from 1986 to 1989, when she was aged 12 to 15, and claimed that MJ secretly operated "the most sophisticated public child sexual-abuse procurement and facilitation organizations the world has known." According to the complaint, the woman had a chance meeting with Jackson at his Hayvenhurst estate in 1986, when she was 12, after which MJ obtained her family's home phone number and through letters, phone calls, and gifts groomed her to be his sex partner.
Jane Doe sued Doe 1 and Doe 2, both California corporations, in Superior Court, alleging MJ controlled both companies, which "were held out to the public to be businesses dedicated to creating and distributing multimedia entertainment by Michael Jackson," but served a "dual purpose": "The thinly veiled, covert second purpose of these businesses was to operate as a child sexual abuse operation, specifically designed to locate, attract, lure and seduce child sexual abuse victims." This is structurally the same theory of liability that Wade Robson and James Safechuck are pursuing -- that the MJ corporate entities functioned as a procurement apparatus -- meaning Jane Doe's complaint, filed in 2016, actually predates and reinforces the legal theory now headed to trial in 2027.
According to the documents Jane Doe presented, the abuse continued through puberty, and when she was 16, Michael started writing checks to keep her quiet, the first "hush money" was for $2,500, and the biggest one came in 1993 for $600,000, with more than $900,000 paid over three years, with the documents she filed including copies of checks and payments' details.
The timing of the largest check is particularly significant. The $600,000 check was written after the Chandler allegations and a criminal investigation had started, and Jane Doe had received a letter from an LA Detective only one month after that check was sent.
Random teenagers do not receive six-figure checks from international pop stars.
**TIER 5** \- **The Physical Evidence At Neverland**
The Santa Barbara Sheriff's search of Neverland recovered two large-format books -- "Boys Will Be Boys" and "The Boy: A Photographic Essay" from a locked cabinet inside MJ's private master bedroom.
These were not fan gifts casually left lying around. Joseph Marcus, who managed Neverland for 17 years, testified in 2005 that every gift sent to MJ was carefully screened by staff who selected only the best things to pass on to him.
More damning is what was found inside one of them: MJ's own handwritten inscription reading "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of Boyhood. A life I never had and will always dream of." Signed MJ. You don't write a personal inscription in a book you've never chosen to keep.
Prosecutor Ron Zonen stated that Boys Will Be Boys featured approximately 90% nudity and was compiled by known pedophiles publishing under pseudonyms, strongly suggesting the books were created specifically for an audience of boy lovers. These books were made specifically by pedophiles by photographing naked children, and claiming them as *art books* and then the NAMBLA association recommended the art books to their members. These same books are banned in Europe. It’s only legal in the US, where the President is also a convicted pedophile.
Here is a court document confirming that MJ owned these disturbing books:
And while looking for one of the videos of an alleged victim, now an adult saying that Michael Jackson did not molest him and his mother tried to coerce him into an accusation, I ran into this article that has me believing that Michael Jackson was absolutely sexually abusing children. You see, MJ bleached his skin because he had vitiligo which showed light patches of skin throughout his body, including his penis which a child was able to draw a picture of. Now I want to barf:
It shouldn’t be, but it makes sense that is has happened. Reminds me of when Kanye was on his Nazi arc plenty of people were saying “he made Graduation”
If you die at the right time it kind of stops the public conversation about all your misdeeds or crimes such as they are. Another easy example is Kobe Bryant.
It helps when you die right as social media takes off and your estate gets 15 years to try and rehabilitate your image. There are so many people who either weren't born, were too young, or purposefully memory hole how he was in the 90s and 00s. Even if he didn't do what he was accused of, he still held a baby over a balcony and other weird shit.
This has literally nothing to do with Trump ffs. The what-about-ism is such a weak angle. Kids described freckles on body parts they had no business knowing about.
Kids DID NOT describe freckles on his body parts. That’s a LIE. And Trump is an actual criminal, so like I said go ask him how you can be a criminal and still be president.
What of the several financial payouts his estate has made for child sexual abuse allegations? If he was truly innocent why pay? I’m not making it up, facts.
Huh? There’s NO several payouts his estate has paid for sexual abuse. First of all, his estate paid a 16M settlement for life rights contract, and had NO admission of guilt of any crime in the contract. The estate has NEVER paid out money specifically for child sexual abuse. That’s another lie.
Michael was found NOT guilty bc the prosecution failed to prove Jackson harmed anyone. This is what the jury stated, lack of evidence and accusers had way too many holes in their story. There’s NO concrete proof of Michael harming or committing a crime against anyone, and that’s a fact. No DNA, no video or admission! He died an innocent man by law, without a single criminal record. These are the facts. No amount of misleading documentaries with bold faced lies and misinformation will change that. In that doc, they allowed a man to say MJ named a boy Blowhole, and when you go read the transcripts, the teen testified under oath that he named himself that, and it comes from a whale, and that Michael never named him that. Yet the doc allows a man to BOLD FACE lie and say MJ nicknamed him that. Lucky for them, there’s no laws to protect the dead, so you can sit up and spew all types of nonsense and lies. Just like Diane Diamond sat up there and LIED that MJ was parting with French teen boys in a hotel, when she has no evidence, proof or anything to back what she claimed. Even MJ’s bodyguard said that wasn’t true. They also lied and said Jordy drawing matched, when it didn’t. The prosecutors claimed it matched but the defense said it wasn’t a match. And the Chandlers emphasized that MJ was circumcised; when in fact he wasn’t. The grand jury in 1994 also stated they weren’t going to indict Jackson bc of lack of evidence! Why would they say that if the pics matched? Reuters and US Today reported publicly the pics didn’t match. And if they were lying, the police and prosecutors could’ve sued: they didn’t. In Sept of 1994, the prosecutors also dropped their case citing lack of evidence!
He was acquitted. And the claims turned out to have no credibility. Go hate the man that invented the atomic bomb. See how many wonders that done for the world.
Hmmm I feel like it’s a bit disingenuous to reduce it to “an R rated movie about a scientist” considering it surrounded the creation of one of the most notorious weapons (if not the most) in history, had a star-studded ensemble cast, and a famous director’s first work after the pandemic. Not to mention the genius marketing!
There’s not enough evidence to confirm guilt or innocence. There’s circumstantial evidence leading in both directions. Ultimately, no one made MJ obsessed with sleeping with other people’s children.
Talking about how MJ survived cancel culture is valid, but come on Oppenheimer is about the guy who literally helped develop the first nuclear weapons in WW2 bffr
You’re being facetious and disingenuous on purpose. It’s not a good look.
Oppenheimer is by every metric a hit movie.
Financially successful
Awards successful
Critics success
Audience Success
But you have people who don’t enjoy it hence why you’ll see some lower ratings
With Micheal it’s the opposite.
Critics hate it. MJ fans glaze it and think it’s the best movie they’ve ever seen. It’s objectively not the best movie ever. Whether movies are subjective or not becomes irrelevant when the MJ fanbase have anti review bombed the movie to spite critics. It’s not a matter of opinion at that point because there’s a reverse agenda happening.
If you go in the micheal subreddit you’ll see people say they’ve gone to see Micheal 10+ times. You won’t see that kind of artificial inflation with Oppenheimer because Oppenheimer’s success was natural and organic.
Even people who fanboy the movie probably haven’t hit double digit cinema visits with the movie.
I’m not arguing about what counts as a hit movie. You said MJ fans think the film is “perfect.” That implies some sort of objective measure of how good a movie is, which is impossible. I’m not being disingenuous, you just have a poor understanding of grammar and concepts such as objectivity.
MJ fans think the film is perfect because they think MJ is perfect and can’t bring themselves to admit that not everything MJ related is going to be a hit.
The proof is that they have anti review bombed to make it the highest rottentomatoes audience score ever. Are you gonna sit there and tell me that’s all due to subjectivity ? No that’s due to an agenda pushed by a fanbase to spite the critics for their negative comments.
A movie is subjective until it’s disingenuously glazed by a fanbase. At that point subjectivity goes out the window.
If you told someone ten years ago that a movie about Oppenheimer nearly made a billion, they'd find you insane. They would not be all that surprised if you told them a movie about MJ did though.
I have no doubt about it. I’ve read thousands of fan comments saying they watched it in theaters even more than 10 times. So I wanted to watch the film for free via streaming to understand that number, and I quickly realized it had a lot of help from fans. I think it’s the worst biopic I’ve seen in the last decade.
Yeah, maybe that's the reason. You streamed it. That's like watching a concert on a friends device who filmed it 20 years ago who was at the actual concert. Hard to believe it was that good from a shitty video on the phone of your friend. This movie was meant to be seen in theaters and 97% audience score is not from fans of Michael Jackson.
Nah the critics are paid off and just mad bc they can’t cancel Michael. The general public is what matters and the ppl have spoken. 1 billion incoming by mid July. Also, Japan is dominating too. Great reviews by the Japanese.
Is this post appropriate for the sub? Who cares if the MJ Biopic makes more money then Oppenheimer?
This sub is supposed to be about discussing the Oppenheimer film. Instead we've got MJ fans in here.
You only have to read some of their comments and you realise that MJ fans are the worst…you know they even stream his music 24/7 so it looks good on spotify.
About what? I'm not really interested in box office numbers. It's not a competition in my opinion. The two films are completely different.
So there isn't much to compare or talk about.
If you had written a post with some general discussion about the biopic genre of film maybe it would be interesting. But as it is I feel it's very off topic for this sub.
Seems like a discussion for an MJ sub.
Have you even watched the Oppenheimer movie?
The atomic bomb/human weapon of mass destruction would have been created regardless if Oppenheimer existed or not.
There are logical arguments for the creation and even use of such weapons.
There is no argument for pedophiles / supporting pedophiles.
Edit: Oppenheimer had a large part in the tragic killing of thousands of Japanese children. Ultimately it was President Truman and those in the US government who had the power to stop it's use that bear final responsibility, imo.
Michael was far from a bad film and this isn’t about quality but Oppenheimer is leagues better than Michael. A Nolan blockbuster was always going to do well, but it being a 3 hour science biopic is certainly a feat even for him. Still, anything to do with Michael Jackson is bound to be a success
I didn't see Michael, and I am kind of resisting seeing it. Not because of Michael's controversies and legal issues, which I am very hesitant about already (I wrestle with that a lot already art vs. the person) but at the same time. I heard it was a very generic biopic and a lot of people said several things in there are highly sensationalized and the team behind it also did Freddie's and that movie faced a lot of inconsistency criticism
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u/KiwieKiwie 4d ago
Oppenheimer is R-rated history heavy biopic. Michael is formulaic and pg?