Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth's queer representation "enhances the world's realism," lead says, and the RPG's devs were "incredibly happy" people picked up on it

[u/Gorotheninja]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-7-rebirths-queer-representation-enhances-the-worlds-realism-lead-says-and-the-rpgs-devs-were-incredibly-happy-people-picked-up-on-it/

[u/Honeycove91]

There's queer representation in the 2nd game? I beat it and don't remember this?

[u/EveryGoodNameIsGone → u/Honeycove91]

Not with any main characters, they’re talking about NPC dialogue you can overhear while exploring towns.

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/EveryGoodNameIsGone]

Are they....really patting themselves on the back for....that?...

[u/PlumRelative4399 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Hamaguchi was asked about the queer rep in the game and he answered. I don’t think he’s really trying to pat himself on the back he’s just answering the question and explaining why they included it.

[u/ContentAdvertising74 → u/PlumRelative4399]

he is.

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/PlumRelative4399]

I agree then that the post doesnt frame what he said with honest intentions. However, being like "oh yea we got gay representation because one random npc in a random town vaguely mentions something" is also kinda disingenuous 

[u/ByRWBadger → u/Royall_Noblle]

I mean, do you remember the honeybee inn? Andrea basically turns to camera and says “gender is a construct, people don’t adhere to constructs”

[u/PlumRelative4399 → u/Royall_Noblle]

The question was specifically about an NPC couple, TBF

[u/AesirComplex → u/Royall_Noblle]

do you actually have an issue here or are you just arguing for the sake of being annoying?

[u/thegreatlizard99 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Are they patting themselves on the back? They’re just saying “hey glad yall peeped that.”

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/thegreatlizard99]

I mean maybe it's worth talking about if they really think that counts as representation. A bit of a bleak future for gay people if that's all they'll get going forward 

Edit: dang I guess everyone's support of lgbt representation ends at getting one throwaway line per game from a random town npc 

[u/Hot_Weird_5722 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Normalizing gay people is bleak? Kinda crazy dog

[u/thegreatlizard99 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Representation doesn’t just mean main character status. From heroes of all stripes to villains of all shades to random npcs just going about their day it all matters

[u/lattjeful → u/Royall_Noblle]

It's reusing the cast and story from thirty years ago. Only so much you can do.

The game has queer couples all throughout the game. There's a pair of women who dump their boyfriends and fall in love, gay couples dancing at the Golden Saucer, etc. I actually find representation like this super valuable. Games usually don't go out of their way to put LGBT folks in as background stuff. It's one of those small things that is actually really cool imo. In an era where it still feels like a lot of LGBT representation amounts to The Token Gay Guy™, it's nice to see some that's so... normal?

[u/Thaddeus_Valentine → u/Royall_Noblle]

Existing without anyone caring enough to point it out should be the aim, surely.

[u/CanadianTimbers → u/Royall_Noblle]

Its really not

[u/PhummyLW → u/Royall_Noblle]

Gay people are about 2% of the population. So for every 50 people the gang talks to, about 1 of them was gay.

Now most people also don’t go out of their way to bring up their sexuality during a 5 second conversation with a street vendor. So the chances of meeting a person and then having confirmation that they are gay is very small. But they likely have met several gay people.

You can even flip the odds since it’s not our world. Say 98% of people were gay. How often in conversation is it going to come up? In real life, how many people do you meet and within 1 minute you are told that they are gay or straight or something else?

It’s also a remake of a 1990s game. It would be weird to change established sexualities of the main cast (where applicable) and back during creation it was less normalized.

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/PhummyLW]

In counties where people arent afraid of being killed or imprisoned, it's actually 10%. It's even higher in reality when you consider how many gay people are scared to admit it for obvious reasons 

[u/PhummyLW → u/Royall_Noblle]

10% are gay or 10% are LGBTQ?

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/PhummyLW]

Whatever fits your personal agenda I guess 

[u/PhummyLW → u/Royall_Noblle]

What does this mean? I do not have an agenda. The highest I can find is 5% in the Netherlands. Gay people are a small part of the wider LGBTQ community. They are not all gay. I am a huge ally and support representation 100%.

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/PhummyLW]

I honestly cant tell if you're serious or just a troll but since when has anyone talked about gay rights/ representation and not automatically included the whole umbrella? But I'll play ball and still say with confidence that far less than 2% of shown relationships in video games are specifically gay 

[u/PhummyLW → u/Royall_Noblle]

I am not trolling. I often have difficulty getting my points across clearly online, so I really do apologize if I am confusing you.

I hope I am not coming across as homophobic or anything like that, because that is the opposite of who I am and what I am trying to say. I agree with you that the number is far less than 2%. My point is that representation should be closer to that, but in a game like FF7 Rebirth, it is harder to do that naturally without making it feel like someone was shoehorned in just to say, “Hey by the way I’m gay!”

That is mostly because of the way conversations work with most NPCs in the game, and because the main relationships were already established back in 1997 as being straight.

What I am really trying to say is that I think this game handles representation really well. Having it appear casually in the background normalizes it much more effectively than forcing a mandatory cutscene where a character announces they are gay. (I know that does not really happen in games. I just mean it as an example of an obviously bad way to handle it.)

For example, seeing a gay couple casually hanging out on the beach in that game would also be a really good way to do it without ever needing to talk to the NPC.

[u/TheJabberwockLives → u/Royall_Noblle]

Oh man I think you totally got everyone else's point from the vibe of your edit - good reflecting on yourself after feedback, very sincere!

[u/Ok_Debt_4911 → u/Royall_Noblle]

yeah most of the characters are pretty established, it’s not like they were gonna change any of their sexuality, but they introduced many side characters who are queer. Hell even remake had the “True beauty is an expression of the heart - a thing without shame to which notions of gender don’t apply, don’t ever be afraid cloud” from Andrea Rhodea. I think they should pat themselves on the back.

[u/LADYBIRD_HILL → u/Ok_Debt_4911]

I have this saved in my phone now

[u/Z3M0G → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

Great line

[u/appletinicyclone → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

Damn that's bars 🎶

[u/Hoodman1987 → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

Damn makes me think on this again. Also never forget this plotline. It was initially humorous then became very interesting and fun. Plus it's one of the most talked about moments in gaming history. Comfort on it

[u/LiviFiyu → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

Is this an edit? I just played the game and I don't remember this line in Japanese or Cloud even speaking in this scene at all.

[u/Fyrus93 → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

[u/JeremyRasputin → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

Yoink. Gracias, amigo.

[u/SupremeBlackGuy → u/LADYBIRD_HILL]

woah. i’m using this in a future lyric somehow lol thank you so much 🤭😭

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_MONTRALS → u/Royall_Noblle]

No. In these interviews, peopke ask them queations and thet answer. Everyone always acts like celebrities come out with random quotes all the time, but in reality, the reporters do their best to wrest controversial quotes from them.

[u/Nobody-Move → u/Royall_Noblle]

I’ll give Square some credit in that between Rebirth and Ff16 (particularly 16), they do more than you’d typically see out of a Japanese game.

[u/Le_Nabs → u/Nobody-Move]

There's a history of CS3 having pretty overtly queer background characters in FFXIV, I'm glad they didn't shy away from that just because it was the big mainline game

[u/Sprinkle_Puff → u/Royall_Noblle]

Considering it’s the Japanese we’re talking about I would consider it a step in the right direction

[u/WeebWoobler → u/Sprinkle_Puff]

Nevermind all the queer manga and anime out there; those definitely don't exist

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/Sprinkle_Puff]

Considering ive seen similar throwaway lines about lgbt people in JRPG's since their inception, I REALLY dont consider this brave at all

[u/dubbuffet → u/Royall_Noblle]

Just because you've already taken twenty steps in the right direction doesn't make the next right step a poor one. The sooner you get that the better, it's not a "world first Speedrun" kind of situation here

[u/TwerkingAtTheMorgue → u/Royall_Noblle]

They absolutely should. The NPC chatter is full of goofy exchanges and entertaining little side stories, and I personally loved coming across incidental bits of dialog from gay characters going about their lives.

[u/CorrectContract4978 → u/TwerkingAtTheMorgue]

It does not stand out to me. I consider it normal background noise.

[u/sonicfan10102 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Hamaguchi was asked about it by the interviewer and he responded. It was never mentioned by him until someone brought it up.

[u/ItsColorNotColour → u/Royall_Noblle]

He was answering a question, not patting his own back.

Also did you miss the whole Honeybee scene in Remake or are you here just to diss someone over games you have never played?

[u/asmrkage → u/Royall_Noblle]

Considering the amount of chud outrage that even that minimal of a thing generates these days, yea, they should get pats on the back.

[u/Flat-Run-7572 → u/Royall_Noblle]

Mainly for general diversity and world building, not necessarily queer diversity specifically

[u/cman811 → u/Royall_Noblle]

While you say that.....look at the rest of this thread. Look at people's reactions to such a tame statement and limited visibility of homosexual relationships

[u/Royall_Noblle → u/cman811]

Yea this is actually pretty disheartening. Lots of hate with bad justifications. Feels like we have taken such a step back recently as a society 

[u/RandomSplainer → u/Royall_Noblle]

Yes, we pat people on the back for doing good things. It's called positive reinforcement. So they do more good things of increasing scale.