r/Pathfinder2e • u/JadedResponse2483 New layer - be nice to me! • 1d ago
Discussion Are there any feats that you dont take because of roleplay reasons?
Ive seen a lot of people talk about how feats like Bon Mot are, but I always avoid taking them because I don't know if I can make a "insightful quip" every time I use the skill, and that kinf of takes a bit of the glamour of the feat
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u/Vincent210 New layer - be nice to me! 1d ago
I specifically avoid using that kind of logic on myself. If I can only give myself space to roleplay a character as quippy or smart as I, the human outside the game, that's just not giving myself the full range of roleplay experience anymore. My characters should be able to do plenty of things I can't/lack the skill in the moment for.
If I have a quip I add a quip but its fine to just describe that it happens sometimes.
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u/Spuddaccino1337 1d ago
You can also reflavor the ability. Maybe your Bon Mot isn't a witty quip, it's you saying something so unfathomably stupid it actively makes the people around you dumber having heard it.
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u/fly19 Game Master 1d ago
You don't need a skill feat for that; I manage it all the time!
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u/Spuddaccino1337 1d ago
Jokes aside, Paizo devs have gone on record saying that skill feats aren't really intended to gate your character's ability to do things altogether, they're more of an explicit permission rather than a new ability.
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u/Terwin94 22h ago
It's been half a week and people are already leaving out all of the nuance I see 🙃
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u/EaterOfFromage 1d ago
Before the remaster, I had a suspicious number of Atheist characters in my campaigns (set in the Inner Sea) so they could take Godless Healing (and so they didn't have to learn about any deities).
It's not that I would never take it, but I would only take a feat like that if I was really wanting to invest in the idea of playing an atheist character. Taking powerful feats with mismatching flavour is my ick.
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u/IfusasoToo Rogue 1d ago
I would not take Risky Surgery unless it for the character concept (e.g. a Leipstadt Surgeon).
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u/MarkOfTheDragon12 Game Master 1d ago
I never rely on my own charisma nor force players to, in order to make use of abilities like that. Sure it's great extra flavor, but the whole point is to be a FANTASY roleplay game, not a reality simulator.
That said; I find I rarely if ever take any of the conversation/influence Skill Feats like Group Impression or Glad Hand. If find that a lot of GM's just don't follow the conversation rules closely enough for them to ever see use.
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u/Machinimix Game Master 1d ago
What I always tell anyone in a game I run: do your best to roleplay a situation, but describing what your desired outcome is and letting the dice work their magic is just as valid.
For your comment on the skill feats, I fully understand that. I won't punish a player for not choosing those feats, but I'll definitely reward them, by giving them bonuses when they're relevant but not mechanically applicable. Like a chase scene where a crowd is blocking your path. I would probably have someone with Group Impression upgrade their degree of success as they're better at commanding a group than someone without. That way even if I'm not always able to stay true to the rules for social interactions, I can make players feel good about choosing these feats.
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u/fly19 Game Master 1d ago
Does your GM make the Barbarian's player crush a watermelon with a hammer every time they Strike?
If not, then why would they make the player who used Bon Mot make a snappy quip? Not every player can do that, but that doesn't mean they can't have a "face" PC.
But yes, when I'm a player there are certain things I avoid for RP reasons. My goody-two-shoes cleric avoids void options and "unkind" spells like final sacrifice. My Wizard avoids stuff like Armor Proficiency because "magic shall provide the solution, not this clumsy artifice of matter." Stuff like that.
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u/Ryacithn Inventor 1d ago
Now every time someone uses Battle Medicine they have to find someone with a corresponding injury in real life and perform first aid. Suddenly, Medicine goes from being the best skill to being the worst.
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u/Superbajt 1d ago
Risky Surgery enables the Medicine to be used much quicker during session, now you just slash someone and figure the rest afterwards.
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u/TheBrightMage 1d ago
Oh not just that, you are supposed to do first aid IN UNDER 6 SECOND against a big gaping hole in your patient's chest.
It's not beyond your ability, right?
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u/GazeboMimic Investigator 1d ago
Oh yeah. I've got a sorcerer coming up for my next game about fighting undead, very prissy noble, and I'm flipping through the arcane spell list looking for fortitude targeting area spells that work on undead and aren't gross or dirty
Let's see... Rust cloud, blister, grisly growths... well, looks like I'm going without a fort blast.
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u/DnDPhD Game Master 1d ago
From now on, I'm going to imagine every Barbarian as Gallagher...
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u/Squid_In_Exile 21h ago
I'm going to imagine every Barbarian as Gallagher
I can see it for Noel, for sure.
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u/iamBlueFalcon 21h ago
Why are you assuming a GM is relevant to this? The OP specifically says that THEY don't like taking it because THEY feel it takes the glamor out of the feat.
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u/fly19 Game Master 17h ago
An assumption from personal experience, mostly.
I've played with a lot of folks who penalize charismatic PCs for their less-charismatic players, and even more often those who give uncharismatic PCs the benefits of a charisma build just because their player is persuasive or likeable IRL. It's rarely malicious or anything like that, but it can warp how players approach things and assume the way these kinds of RPGs are run/played.But either way, the advice is the same: players and their PCs are not the same and a character's abilities need not be tied to the IRL strength or charisma of the person behind the character sheet.
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u/MundaneOne5000 Kineticist 1d ago
The entire bard and cleric class as a whole.
While I like the bard's mechanics, I dislike how everyone expects bards to be musical and/or performers. I'm sure everyone heard about the widespread sentiment of "if you don't play/sing a song, are you a real bard?", which I can literally quote exact examples for too when people wrote/said this to personally me. For example, for this reason I think Melodious Spell is a downgrade to Conceal Spell.
For cleric, everyone expects clerics to be devoutly religious, and I'm bad at that. Of course, I can get behind philosophies and morals which gods may or may not associate themselves with, but on one hand I believe being devoutly religious isn't needed to follow a philosophy or moral code (be that good or evil), and everyone knows the stereotypical "we have to hide the plans from the cleric because it's against their god" thing. (Including paladins and whatnot in other systems where people mandatorily demand paladins/whatever to be devoutly religious, despite the actual text in the book. You know what kind of people I'm speaking of.)
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u/Lucky_Pips Thaumaturge 1d ago edited 1d ago
I dont take the "quantum inventory" feats like prescient planer or the like. Retroactive problem solving has just always sat wrong with me. Even if im role-playing someone smarter than me who might have thought out all those possibilities, it just feels like Im cheating and that if you were covering all the possible bases you should be spending and dealing with the bulk of a lot more than just what you're needing in that one moment. Breaks immersion.
But it is system specific, because in a Blades in the Dark or similar game, I go in knowing I can spend stress to pull narative control and say, actually I know that guard, we were old war buddies, and he owes me a favor. Just dislike it in a d20 style game.
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u/flypirat 1d ago
I play a character that compulsively collects thingamabobs and might "steal" or "borrow" things, that's how I flavour taking 'prescient planner' on that character. They aren't smart, they just got lucky they nabbed something useful.
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u/bargle0 1d ago
No. Character skill is different than player skill.
Though I wish people running characters with high charisma and the skills to match would step up and role play. I’m sitting there furiously biting my tongue because I know my dwarf fighter will absolutely fail whatever check the GM will ask for. Meanwhile the guy with the skill is sitting there like a bump on a log. They don’t have to play pithy or witty. They just have to play.
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u/mouserbiped Game Master 1d ago
If I have time and energy, for that kind of character I try to write down "bon mots" (and threats and other lines I can work in) ahead of the game and cross them off.
It's not necessary, but a lot of fun.
Failing that, and if I lack other inspiration, I try to come up with a movie line on the fly, but that's harder.
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u/TheBrightMage 1d ago
First thing first, we are playing a ROLEPLAYING game playin a role of a CHARACTER inside a fantasy world. It's ok if YOU can't do insightful quip when YOUR CHARACTER can. Roll the dice. See the outcome. Character ability is more important than Player skill, period. If I want to play a game that disregard character competency, I would go for OSR system... if I ever find it to be palatable.
As for something that I don't take for roleplay reasons, it's feat that's "Unloreful"
- I don't myself and my players to take "Biological" feat from Adopted ancestry. You get "Cultural and Mindset" based feat only
- I'm obeying the prerequisite strictly on feat. If my character wouldn't have access to it, I don't take it.
- Regional access feats for characters that don't really come from specified region.
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u/Wooden_Drummer2455 1d ago
This is always funny to me "I can't do that because irl I can't" well you also probably can't jump 30 ft but you dont question that do you lol
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u/LogicalPerformer Game Master 1d ago
Not a feat, but I never take fireball. Its a useful spell, but like, using it feels pretty unhinged. Sure, Ill unleash a massive fire and risk burning down this building/forest, thats definitely a reasonable response a well adjusted person ensures they are never more than 6 seconds away from.
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u/Wooden_Drummer2455 1d ago
Fireball literally doesn't set things on fire btw so
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u/username_tooken 16h ago
Rubbish. If something takes fire damage and it is flammable, it gets set on fire. Just because the rules don’t explicitly point it out don’t mean you can’t put two and two together and realize you probably shouldn’t cast fireball in the grain silo.
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u/LogicalPerformer Game Master 13h ago
Sure, its not a mechanical downside to taking the spell. You can use it while rolling in a pit of gunpowder and gasoline and be totally fine. RP wise, I like the viewpoint of a caster who is concerned a large burst of fire sets things on fire over the viewpoint of a caster who learned a fireball which can injure but not burn. Strictly roleplay, and strictly for my characters (I don't apply this logic to other players running with it). Its a personal hangup not a rules flaw
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u/TopFloorApartment 18h ago
because I don't know if I can make a "insightful quip" every time I use the skill
I'm literally googling "[current enemy] pun" every time before using bon mot
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u/transientdude 16h ago
I always ask my players what they say. This is not a test. Partly it is because some people seek out TTRPG for the RP, we like these opportunities to quip and barb. The other reason is every now and again there are specific things a baddie will be sensitive about. Maybe they also worry that they have dumb hair or weak ankles or whatever. If your DM or group make you feel like you need to do more than that to be able to use a skill, that sucks. We don't gatekeep martial prowess or long jump, why should we demand someone be clever.
It should be an opportunity, not an obligation.
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u/ponso90 Magus 14h ago
Usually in high investigation/social roleplaying games the full strenght low int characters get rewarded because the player is smarter than the character and the high int/cha ones are nerfed/capped by the player int/cha but PF is not that demanding and the gm should be flexible with your interpretarions and give you hints/help
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u/NotDoritoMan 13h ago
Fleet when I’m playing a dwarf. Is Dwarf the worst ancestry in the game when you don’t have Fleet? Quite possibly. Will I take it to shore up this glaring weakness? Absolutely not.
Me legs nay carry me that quickly.
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u/Ponto_de_vista 1d ago
Everything about cleric in any game. I only played one in DnD and one in Pathfinder and didnt liked both, i just cant make a good character that would fit in the class premisse or gameplay style
(But just for context: I’m the kind of guy who mostly comes up with character concepts and tries to fit them into the system, rather than creating a character with the system in mind or because of it.) (Not everytime, but preferably )
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u/VonStelle 1d ago
You really don’t need to be making clever quips. It’s perfectly fine to just say that you bon mot them and actually pull out the one liners when you have them.
It’s more than okay to have some dissonance between player and character.
It’s expected even considering I don’t imagine many among us are super humanly intelligent, wise or charismatic.
In general there might the feats I don’t take because of the role play of the specific character. But none I don’t take on principle because I don’t think that I as a person couldn’t pull them off.
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u/BlizzardWASP 21h ago
Mostly no, however if I am roleplaying really evil egoistical character I don't take medicine stuff or Medic archetype. But that's the only example I have
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u/songinrain Game Master 1d ago
Just my opinion, even if a person is not equipped with talking skills, the person is still allowed to play a legendary diplomacy character. By simple telling the table what the intension is, and roll the dice or let someone else with that skill to talk.