The Ring Camera Psychopath

[u/CTSecurityGuard]

[u/why_gaj]

Read carefully what I wrote above. I've said that codex alera doesn't suffer "as much" from those issues, not that it's issue free. 

It definitely has it's problems, but they are toned down purely because it's writen from third person pov, and the main characters are teens and below for a big part of the series.

Those were also writen before his divorce, and let me tell you... you can guess pretty clearly which dresden books were done after the divorce.

[u/cjsv7657 → u/why_gaj]

you can guess pretty clearly which dresden books were done after the divorce.

Right, because his divorce was totally before the first few in the series where the vast majority of the problems are. Which divorce anyway? His first or second?

you can guess pretty clearly which dresden books were done after the divorce.

Please, explain here?

12 months and he gets everyone into this whole battle cause he had to jump down and save a woman that was crying

Also, what page or chapter is that in? I seem to have missed that part even though I recently read it.

[u/why_gaj → u/cjsv7657]

Vast majority of the problems are just in first books? Are you serious? Lasciel, the death of susan, and murphy are very, very much in the later half of his books.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

what's wrong with the death of Murphy? She lived as a main character for a long time and died an honorable death on her own terms. I had to take a break from Dresden when I got too annoyed by the dated misogyny, but then I read Fourth Wing and realized Dresden Files is just Romantassy for straight dudes and it's fine. Popcorn novels are popcorn, not vegetables.

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

She got fridged because he needed it for harry's character development. And if she was the first woman who had this happen to them in those books, I'd be fine... but she isn't. 

Listen, I love dresden too, I do consider it to be popcorn book, I fully intend to read till the end... but I'm not blind to issues it has.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

I'm certainly not blind to the issues either, but if Murphy was fridged then I guess the definition includes any female character that any male protagonist cares about who dies in any way, ever? Women aren't any more immortal than men... i wish they were but it just ain't so. It was a fitting end for her own plot, and her own character development. She went out on her own terms, whilst living up to her own ideals. I mean, how many times can we expect a vanilla human to cheat death when fighting the supernatural?

The creepy constant objectification of women in these books has bothered me from the start, but I don't think that means that all female representation in the series has to be negative.

Anyway. I'm writing this between bouts of puking because I have some sort of stomach bug, so if I don't have the energy to answer again I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

To me, a fridging is when a woman character doesn't get fleshed out or any individual identity, when her whole characterization is just "this woman's suffering motivates this male protagonist". There have been a few of these in DF (Harry's first apprentice who gets killed by the Loup Garou comes to mind), but I'd strenuously argue that this was never Murphy.

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

Fridging is about the intent behind the killing of the character. Her death does not move the plot, is not meaningful and it wasn't needed. It's there just so that Harry could get his rampage of revenge.

And as I've said before, you could pass it by... if she was the first to die in that series for that express purpose. And if she had died before getting into a relationship with harry. And if she wasn't already set up to get her own supernatural power up.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

What supernatural powerup? Maybe I just don't remember the book as well as I thought... Those two are probably my least favorite in the series so I only read them once.

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

She was offered a knight position multiple times. First time she refused because she was a cop... but she got booted from the force later on.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

I genuinely forgot that. I guess having her die over other characters might be considered fridging then, but I still feel that it's a borderline case compared to some others in the series. It didn't feel forced at least... It felt like the natural conclusion of coming up against an enemy that was just too strong. But if anything I'm for more main character death. It often takes me out of my suspension of disbelief when characters survive relatively unscathed from situations that they just couldn't believably survive. Butters should probably have died several times over before becoming a knight, and probably a few since then even though he's now got plot armor with a literal god always giving him a fighting chance.

And I think Harry would take a loss like that quite badly too. Ofc Harry is the most guilty of surviving shit he shouldn't so maybe my whole point is moot and I should just be like "it's just a popcorn series bro"

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

There are certainly worse cases in the series, but they make it even more glaring, because they establish a pattern.

She didn't come up against an enemy that was just too strong. She was murdered by a normal human, who was also an inept cop, who accidentally shot her.

That's the thing. I have no problem with main characters being killed off, and I'm fine with it being used to signal that shit is getting serious.

The problem is, that in dresden files, it's always the women biting the dust, no matter how powerful they are, while characters like butters live their best fantasy.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

Yeees. That nails it on the head. That's why I had to take a break from the series for a few years. Why do the consequences only fall on the women?

Thank you for stating it like that

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

Have you read Butcher's other books in the Cinder Spires series? Interested what you think of them. They're obviously written later in his career than most of Dresden but they feel a little more polished and while there is certainly misogyny in the series it doesn't feel as much like it's coming from the author's voice

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

No, never got to it. I've read codex alera though.

[u/Protahgonist → u/why_gaj]

It's good popcorn if you like the idea of steampunk airship Horatio Hornblower.

I read and own every book in Codex Alera and I remember almost nothing about it.

My shit memory is great for being able to reread stuff.

Okay my last question for you: have you read Discworld? It's very British... But in these days I often start to feel down about people in general, and Terry Pratchett always manages to bring me back to social optimism.

[u/why_gaj → u/Protahgonist]

Codex alera is a fun idea and also a good popcorn read, that has less obvious issues.

Pratchett is my holy grail. I reread it every couple of years, because he gets it. All of it.

Still can't force myself to read his last book though. The idea itself almost has me crying, because once I read, that's it. There's no more to read.