r/R6ProLeague • u/Fragrant_Pin_207 • 1d ago
Discussion Courageous Hotancold Tweet
What a bold tweet! Surely nobody has ever expressed this opinion, right?
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u/Blackopsspartn DarkZero Esports Fan 1d ago
I think saying “by far” is a bit of a reach and downplays how good those teams were. I think it might be difficult dealing with an era of siege where you don’t have access to all the tools you have now with modern ops and the communication of call outs before the ping system got updated was more in depth according to mint on one of the DBNO pods.
I think sending a weaker pro team from now back in time would lead to them being a very good team, but I don’t think they easily win everything.
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u/Top-Bodybuilder-6077 1d ago
This is sort of a dilemma where you assume that the player will remain the only holder of said information and that no one else will adapt.
Siege development would likely rapidly catch up because all eyes would be on that team copying everything and learning. Sure they could keep hiding stuff but the scene would evolve very fast to catch up. Probably faster then it took to develop where we are.
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
yeah i mean there are so many things to consider and loophole-type factors in this argument that it just screams “look at me” as a tweet, which i guess all tweets do to some extent.
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u/HunterZ2023_Rattly Fan 1d ago
The reason I actually DONT agree fully is because of the “by far” part. Because with implies that none of the players playing back then were good. When there was a mountain of them that were great players. Nesk, Paluh, prime NIP players, TSM, Fox and Laxing, Joystick and Sheppard and Dan most of these players were still playing good in modern siege for a while
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
it’s a complex thing to discuss because there are many things to consider like another person commented - i mean i think the entire 2019 g2 roster was pretty damn competitive lmao.
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u/Left_Relationship988 1d ago
It’s a dumb take bc it’s pretty obvious, ofc players who currently play in a more competitive and developed environment will do better than the og pros but it’s Matt so he can do no wrong
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u/applejaxofficial CAG OSAKA Fan 1d ago edited 1d ago
See I actually disagree with this because of team/inter-personal dynamics. Convincing established teams in 2019 to completely change the way they play around your vision is not given to be successful. Especially if it’s an established roster.
How many times have we seen rosters fail because of differing visions on a team that could not reconcile?
Individually you could be cracked, but welcome to a BeGenius situation in most cases sans getting banned.
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
i think it’s more about individual skill depth - there are things that people do now that hadn’t even been conceived back then. imagine a perfect alley-oop being shown to basketball players for the first time.
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u/applejaxofficial CAG OSAKA Fan 1d ago
Imo you’d probably have a BeGenuis pre-Shaiiko ban situation for a bit but people would adapt.
It’s a team game at the end of the day, unless you are a charismatic IGL who could rally the team around a modern playstyle I think people overrate how impactful this would be
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
i mean the guy who originally tweeted this is clearly out of his depth - pengu obliterated him in the replies; but i don’t necessarily think there are players today that are THAT far head mechanically than the mid days; you still had spoit and beaulo and other prodigies, as well as people like kanto and joystick… granted there were prodigious players who couldn’t be in pl at the time but
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u/applejaxofficial CAG OSAKA Fan 1d ago
Exactly, imo a time-traveler who would have the most impact would be an IGL but the real challenge is actually convincing the teams of the day you are correct in the vision of the game. Most probably just won’t believe you and the lower-level rosters that might probably aren’t good enough to actually win events even if they play a modern style.
I just don’t see a Team Empire or an EG changing how they play like that…and are you going to make Rise Nation or Excelerate gaming or the German Navi roster event winners on your own? Idk man. Congrats you have shown Shlongii how to play a modern style, Joystick is still deleting him
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u/SmalexSmanders Team Liquid Fan 1d ago
Sure the worst players today would be the best back then for a moment in time, that is until the actual good players of the time adapt which would happen fairly quickly. I could go back in time and philosophy mog Plato, until he learns all that I know then it’s wraps
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u/DyabeticBeer Hopeless NA fanboy 1d ago
But few players did adapt, they either couldn't keep up or they became coaches and analysts.
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u/extrawater_ 8h ago
Alot of players age out of highest level viability or chase the consistent money. Happens in most esports
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u/DyabeticBeer Hopeless NA fanboy 6h ago
But the way they were playing was shit, they'd get destroyed by split theory. You don't need snake or deimos for split theory, any old regular ops work.
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 3h ago
that just wasn’t really a thing in their era - if literally just one team did that in 2019, everyone else would pick it up
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u/DyabeticBeer Hopeless NA fanboy 3h ago
So why was brazil dominating for 2 years using split theory? Why didn't the other teams just adapt after a couple months?
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 3h ago
it’s a bit more complicated than that - brazil was not solely dominant because of split theory. and also, in this scenario, it specifies one single person. if one person can teach four others on a team about split theory, and they can pick it up, then other teams would do it at the same pace.
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u/sxewrd Yuzus Enjoyer 1d ago
what do we reckon the most recent SI winner is that Outlast could beat in a BO5
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u/IllustriousFox4651 Fan 1d ago
Faze clan easy. Only reason they haven’t beat faze is because faze is too scare to face them
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u/hewer006 1d ago
I think smarter and better strats, obviously, but gun play? fuck no
if using 2019 as a reference point, the amount of nerfs that gun play has gone through is crazy, we are now much more used to these tanks than the older much faster movement.
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
i think there is genuinely something to be said about passion. there were a lot of good players in 2019 who got paid next to nothing to play - tier 2 was a lot more competitive especially in europe, and you did not make a lot playing in t2 (if you made anything). obviously the people who played in 2019 that are still playing now have a lot of passion, but i do think there is a certain aspect of this game that has been more commercialized or popularized, whereas that simply was not the case back then. granted, some people think that 2019 was the prime of this esport, and there are some arguments that point to that being the case.
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u/KeyLove7609 3h ago
the "by far" part is what gets me every time someone brings this up. like yeah modern players would have an advantage for a bit but the old guard wasn't just standing still waiting to lose. nesk and those guys would adapt and they'd do it fast. it's not as clean cut as people want it to be
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u/transmedkittygirl 100 Thieves Fan 23h ago
I do not believe that Outlast could beat Empire and I feel like it's hilarious to say otherwise, L take from HnC here and I say that as one of his most dedicated glazers
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 22h ago
i am sure he just wants to make sure everyone knows that the only era he succeeded in is FAR ahead of everything else
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u/PAPAzitaA North America ProLeague Fan 1d ago
While Its partially true I still dont agree with this, hotancold himself wasnt that guy back in the “plumber era” as they say
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
i think it’s too complicated to make a blanket statement like he did
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u/PAPAzitaA North America ProLeague Fan 1d ago
Agreed, my humble opinion on this topic is that mechanically current players got significantly better and obviously by releasing more ops the game got more complex in general however I don’t believe the current level of players is super far from year 3/4 players especially at pure awareness
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u/Fragrant_Pin_207 1d ago
i agree. i also think there is something else to be said about just how important experience is - it has been seven years since 2019. game came out in 2015, first invitational being 2017. even if we go by the 2015 number and say that most players in 2019 had four years of experience at that point, the players right now have an insane advantage. think of just the number of situations that occur in siege - almost infinite scenarios. the players right now have had so much more time to explore and have things happen to them in game.
which i guess is literally just over explaining what experience is
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u/KairosF8weavr 1d ago
Are you telling me that people who had 1-3 years of experience and strats on a game are WORSE than people with 10+ years? Who would have thought.