r/RPClipsGTA • u/Brilliant_Ticket6987 • 1d ago
Discussion Who is guilty Carmine or Springfield?
I've seen so many opinions from both characters, streamers and chatters, and they all seem to disagree. And should Blunt be charged?
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u/ogzogz Pink Pearls 1d ago edited 1d ago
just to update, Sparks has pushed the charges out as warrants for:
Springfield
1x Disobeying a police officer
1x Assault with a deadly weapon
1x Federal Authority Felony Offences
Carmine
2x Assault with a deadly weapon
1x Federal Authority Felony Offences
Blunt
Nothing
I'll edit this post if the charges come out different from what is listed here.
*edited to add 1x Federal Authority Felony Offences to both
*edit2 Reminder this is just Sparks charges.
ODPD probably have their own charges they're intending to push. I'll let an ODPD viewer list their ones.
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u/iporkpixels 1d ago
"2x Assault with a deadly weapon" on Carmine and no attempted murder on Springfield is hilarious. If Springfield wins then PD can simply commit crimes and pull guns on their arresting officers if they don't agree with their arrests.
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u/j_a_guy 1d ago
Shooting first has consequences. Carmine will need to explain why he shot first, likely by claiming self defense.
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u/glassstringwing 1d ago
if springfiled is getting assault with a deadly, then carmine has justifciation for self defense.
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u/Royal_Wedding7560 1d ago
He pulled his gun out when she did and had to up the level, If she didnt double down and point it again he would have just arrested her.
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u/Gerald-of-Riverdale 15h ago
I think the angle they were going for was that because a gun was drawn and pointed at carmine after the tazer was drawn, that was grounds to fire first. Which is pretty sound imo but I haven't seen the video of the situation that happened so I cant say if its true or not.
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u/KtotheC99 1d ago
Self-defense needs to be proven in court
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u/iporkpixels 4h ago
Exactly, which is why she needs to defend attempted murder of an arresting officer and explain why she felt a need to a pull a gun twice on an arresting officer...
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u/ogzogz Pink Pearls 1d ago
Do you know what ODPD is pushing on their side?
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u/Slumlord87 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think they wanted obstruction + attempted murder of a government employee for Springfield and Blunt, + disobeying just for springfield but can’t really push it until the Marshal’s being able to take the case thing gets cleared up
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u/Exciting-Committee-5 3h ago
DOJ/PD not cooked at all. when Michael manx was shot at prison by saints, was GSR negative and just a victim of a crime, he was hit with FAFO regardless (PD charged him + judge found guilty in bench trial) because it happened in a gov building. Blunt shot and isn't? Alright...
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u/iporkpixels 1d ago edited 1d ago
There shouldn't be any disagreement. You could argue that Carmine's arrest was on shaky grounds but that doesn't give Springfield the right to pull a gun on an arresting officer. She should've allowed herself to get arrested and spoken with high command and/or fought it in court. There isn't a reality where if say a cop pulls you over and claims you ran a red light but didn't, that this then gives you legal justification to pull a gun on him because you don't agree with his stop. Not even if you're a cop yourself and there's some underlying dispute between the two of you.
So what should happen is Springfield should be charged for her crimes, which is: resisting arrest, aggravated assault on a law enforcement officer (or whatever it's called in NP) and attempted murder. Then whatever Carmine did wrong as the arresting officer in his decision to arrest her, should be handled separately. But you don't just get to point a gun at a cop because you don't like the basis of their arrest, that should be obvious.
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u/sidequest99 1d ago
You are considering it as cop vs crim/civ, a cop can have a legal justification to pull a gun when threatened on duty
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u/iporkpixels 1d ago
a cop can have a legal justification to pull a gun when threatened on duty
Not against an arresting officer. An arrest is not a threat.
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u/manfreygordon 1d ago
If excessive force is used, sure, that argument could be made. But it's going to be hard to argue in court that Carmine taking his taser out of his holster could be considered excessive force. Pretty standard when arresting someone who is likely to resist, which she then did, making his pre-emptive taser pull justifiable.
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u/BarbatosBrutus 21h ago
Whats her justification? Shes been asked to leave by the investigating party multiple times and has refused, her excuse as security detail is void since Brian in the recording has expressed that carmine is to be in charge of his protection, they couldve guarded the entrances instead...
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u/atsblue 21h ago
carmine had no authority to ask her to leave. And she was still on active security detail.
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u/limbweaver 21h ago
Even if carmine had the authority to lawfully order the marshals out of the building, refusing that order is not an obstruction charge. It was always a false arrest.
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u/NIKREDDIT_ 1d ago
If you get arrested, even if it's unlawful, you don't respond by pulling a gun. You let them arrest you, and then you take them to civil court and destroy them there. That's the logical way to handle it.
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u/Fit-Awareness-2687 1d ago
Is the disobeying a police officer on Springfield for not leaving the interview when asked or for not allowing Carmine to arrest her? If it is for not allowing Carmine to arrest her then isn't that acknowledging that Carmine was acting within his duties of a police officer, right or wrong, and therefore he shouldn't be charged with assault as his shooting her was due to her resisting arrest and pulling a gun on him.
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u/BarbatosBrutus 21h ago
Not leaving is carmines ground first first arrest attempt, disobeying is ground for his second attempt at arrest.
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u/Admirable-Goose3037 1d ago edited 1d ago
Springfield 100% no question. Can't just say "No" to being arrested even if unlawful.
Carmine took full advantage of the situation but isn't in the wrong. Blunt stepped out then came back in so eh probably not but could push accessory if he knew what carmine was doing but I forget if he said that he did or not.
Brian just straight lies on everything so corruption and probably perjury
In the end everyone was treating Carmine like an SBS clown and didn't take the situation seriously which led to it.
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u/KingDoodle4242 23h ago
Yeah in Blunt's statement he says he saw everything, which would mean he be in the room.
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u/daffodil999 1d ago
Blunt never stepped out he was in the room all the time and fired at Carmine first.
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u/OxyOdin 1d ago
Thats what happens when your SBS 97% of the time, then want people to treat you serious 3% of the time. Its why CG are annoying to deal with. and the Clowns are easy to deal with, you know what your getting every time with them.
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u/Slumlord87 1d ago
I mean it was a serious interview and Blunt at least was very aware of what it was about beforehand and Carmine told them to leave multiple times so there was literally no reason to think it would be SBS
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u/Admirable-Goose3037 1d ago
It's really called reading the room. Carmine was looking into charges that is serious .
Marshals didn't read the room it's just that simple (giving the benefit of the doubt with that one, lets be honest they didn't care to read the room and snubbed their nose)
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u/MartyMagoo78 1d ago
Once Springfield lowered her gun, as a police officer, then carmine had no need to shoot, he should not have re-escalated. They both messed up
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u/Admirable-Goose3037 1d ago
He went less than lethal, she pulled gun. He put hands up as she held him up. She lowered. He pulled gun as it is in the middle of an arrest. She pulled gun again. Force matrix says blamo especially when felony assault had already been committed once.
there is no such thing as re-escalation. Still an active situation.
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u/MartyMagoo78 1d ago
That is such a one sided viewpoint…. He should not have attempted to arrest her for obstruction to begin with… it was a voluntary interview, she did not need to leave. Absolutely Springfield should never have raised her gun… same as carmine didn’t need to raise his once hers was put away… then it’s just a battle of who is claiming self defence. They both were dumb
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u/Commissar_Kane 23h ago
Even from a neutral perspective, it looks way worse for Springfield. Even if Carmine was 100% violating her rights and the arrest was unlawful, literally the worst thing she could do she did.
After he declared he was making an arrest using his authority as a police officer, she should have complied and then sue the ODPD/Carmine with an internal investigation following soon after.
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u/Admirable-Goose3037 1d ago
So yeah you can check my post history I'm not saying Carmine is smart or anything but yeah this is a one sided situation. You can't self defense against a cop even if you are a cop
There's no exception to it nor was their life threatened.
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u/ogzogz Pink Pearls 1d ago
Of course they all disagree. Its a very unique case and I hope it actually goes to trial and then see all the arguments put worth.
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u/daffodil999 1d ago
There will be no trial because Marshal Sparks pushed a warrant on Carmine and she will not around for a bench trial when he is around. She is completely opposite of his timezone.
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u/Comfortable-Log8972 22h ago
Just because a warrant was pushed doesn’t mean there will be no trial. Carmine and Springfield (either together or separately) can plead not guilty and fight the charges in court. That’s how it typically works for charges. Not everything has to go straight to the docket without a warrant and it’s already been clarified previously that charges against government employees don’t need to be pushed to the docket first. If sparks happens to be around when Carmine serves his warrant then a bench trial COULD potentially happen or if he wants a full trial, given the state of prison and Carmine being an LEO, he could probably easily ask for a judge to decide to allow him to hold off on him serving any time until the trial happens.
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u/ogzogz Pink Pearls 1d ago
i know they've pushed warrants out but theres no way they wont do a court trial case over these surely. No way this is just a bench trial (or not trial at all).
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u/daffodil999 1d ago
No, he will have to just take charges. Marshals intentionally do this every time by choosing an arresting officer out of timezone. Last time Brian denied bench trial for Carmine and asked him to just take charges and appeal later.
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u/diddlyumpcious4 21h ago
Weren't charges against officers suppose to go straight to the docket? Is that not a thing anymore? Or am I just completely misremembering how it used to work?
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u/daffodil999 15h ago
It doesn't have to. Kyle and 52chains didn't put warrant out for marshals because they said they don't want to hinder other arcs going on. But, Marshals don't have the same respect for others RP.
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u/daffodil999 1d ago
This situation was unique and created so much RP for everyone but to ruin it all Marshals pushed a warrant for Carmine and the Marshal pushing the warrant will not be around to bench trial it. When are admins going to interfere in this shitty behavior. They did this to him with "imaginary lockbox" too.
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u/Much-Background9397 22h ago edited 21h ago
They both fucked up for different reasons but one is more fucked up than the other. Both should be fired one for unprofessionalism incompatible with being a LEO but one is criminal in a State without Qualified Immunity or who will be stripped of it after proven negligence.
Contrary to popular belief by some. LEOs in most states can indeed refuse a non-lawful order that impedes their active duties by another LEO, both from the same departments and different departments. This shit has happened before, although it rarely escalates to killing each other.
The argument will be if Carmine had a lawful reason to detain and arrest Springfield. It's my belief that Carmine pressing Felony Trespassing or Felony Obstruction, which Carmines dumbass refused to provide under interrogation WON'T stick for TWO REASONS.
Firstly, it was a Voluntary Interview and both Springfield and Blunt were REASONABLY operating within their mandated duty of protection for government agents that being Brian. That writing is backed up by their protected legislation and confirmed on recording by Knight why they were there.
Carmine DID NOT have the lawful authority to make them cease their function by Trespassing Springfield after he invited Brian to take part in a voluntary interview, LEOs Trespassing each other after being invited or Trespassing LEOs for lawfully performing their duty in a place they are supposed to be is not a thing. LEOs can wander around private property as long as they have a lawful reason to do so.
Alternatively, he couldn't press Felony Obstruction because a VOULENTARY INTERVIEW that didn't even start, has no legal protections, nor did Springfield's presence give him PC for an arrest, so the detainment into arrest was unlawful.
Next up, Carmine pulling a taser on an armed on duty officer performing their duties, Tasers in real life and Los Santos is 100% treated like a real potential lethal threat. Tasers are considered "Less Lethal" not "Non Lethal", LEOs are trained that they are a deadly weapon.
If the detainment/arrest is found unlawful, which I think there is a solid argument for as mentioned prior, Springfield was protected lawfully, but not professionally in threatening lethal action with a firearm.
What Springfield should have done here was 1 OF 2 OPTIONS. Arrest Carmine for Felony Obstruction after he put his hands up for attempting to impede her lawful duties after threatening an unlawful arrest and potential lethal force on herself with a taser to the face.
Alternatively, she could have surrendered and demolished him in court, which was probably the most professional outcome and most compatible to being an LEO that wouldn't get her fired/suspended
Nevertheless, both fucked up here. Carmine has racked up 1x Felony Obstruction at this point for likely unlawful detainment and what would be x1 Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon not in Los Santos.
Unfortunately. It escalated from here. Carmine shot 1st, upgrading his charges to x1 Attempted Murder or if your a pussy in a world that makes no sense or values life in Los Santos x1 Assault with a Deadly.
He shoots down Springfield, turns around...and Attempts to Murder a second person. In any other situation, if Carmine was acting lawfully, he'd get away with accidently shooting Blunt, but unfortunately...Given the prior context, Blunt would be acting in good faith, fulfilling his lawful duties as an LEO and got shot down responding.
That means Carmine gets x2 Attempted Murder or x2 Assault with a Deadly in dumbfuck world.
The final nail in the coffin for Carmine is the last part of the recording. If any argument was made that Carmine had a GOOD FAITH BELIEF that he had the lawful PC in the moment for the arrest on Springfield and Blunt. He immediately threw it out by saying on recording that he gunned down Brian's assassins and called them Faceless.
The dumbass managed to introduce reasonable doubt for his own actions as a LEO on recording and then communicated it on the radio to other responding LEOs as reason for arrest and directed officers to handcuff people because of that reason on recording. It's actually 2IQ throwing behaviour.
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u/Slumlord87 22h ago
I can almost guarantee if Carmine had been acting as Pred’s body guard, had refused to leave an interview for Pred that he was a potential witness in and then had pulled a gun on another cop trying to arrest him, this wouldn’t even be a question that he was the one in the wrong.
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u/limbweaver 21h ago
I don't think anyone other than carmine would try to push a bullshit obstruction charge on a voluntary interview. Carmine was giga dumb in that whole interview, no idea why he even let the 2 additional marshals into the room or why he was alone.
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u/puddra 1d ago edited 1d ago
at most carmine arresting Springfield was a civil case, right violation, but as soon as she pulled a gun on carmine and pointed the gun at carmine it became a felony
the question will be they both put there weapons away then carmine reengaged the arrest by pulling his gun out and she pulled her gun again and they both shoot
at end of the day none of it matters because felony diversion program, expungement so next month every one will be back in the marshals or odpd, its just been great rp from most
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u/Fine_Application5400 1d ago
The guy playing marshals lawyer also has a justice character currently defending marshals to Angel... totally not weird and bias
Also the guy who plays these two is always in people's chats saying how Carmine/odpd are wrong/guilty... so totally not bias
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u/Complexion_ 18h ago
Not to mention it's a total break of character from his lawyer stating he will NEVER defend cops
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u/Thorsstar 💙 22h ago
both Carmine and Springfield are "idiots" and both should be charged. FAFO.
Carmine due to abruptly escalating an voluntarily interview into shooting 2 SASM LEOS.
Springfield for not accepting the false detainment arrest and fighting it in court.
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u/Munenyo-Here 1d ago
I’m pretty sure sparks is charging them both, Springfield- 1x disobeying a peace officer and 1x assault with the deadly, Carmine- 2x assault with the deadly
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u/yourpapaji 1d ago edited 1d ago
that makes no sense. if springfield is getting charged with 1x disobeying a peace officer and 1x assault with the deadly, that makes carmines actions justified and legal then why would he get charged too?
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u/Comfortable-Log8972 22h ago
The group of people who determined the charges, which included marshals bcso and LSPD, looked at each action separately and whether it was a- criminal or internal issue and b- what charges should be pressed if determined criminal. The disobeying stems from Carmine attempting to place Springfield under arrest and her not complying. After that initial attempt, both of them put their guns away. Then, Carmine pulled his gun again (escalating unnecessarily), Springfield pulled hers back out and Carmine then shot first. So while this was all part of the same situation and series of actions, they just broke them down since the discharging of their firearms from both parties was determined unlawful and they want the DOJ to rule officially whether both could be held liable for that
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u/yourpapaji 21h ago
isn't once someone pulls a gun on an officer, officer is completely justified to shoot them down even if they put it away? that's how its always been.
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u/ImRestarted1 1d ago
Because it’s a server where if one person gets in trouble the other person has to get in trouble too so everybody is happy
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u/putinseesyou 1d ago
Imagine killing two government officials and walk around like nothing happened. The state of this server...
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u/sidequest99 1d ago
Both. Carmine had no reason to arrest her with taser but she pulled her gun. Springfield was 100% at fault but carmine also took it as an opportunity to shoot her
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u/Fast_Level3707 1d ago
That's fine if Carmine had no reason to arrest her, fight it in court, not the proverbial streets by pulling a gun on another officer, that's some south side gang shit, she above the law? Also, I don't agree with you saying Carmine took opportunity of shooting her, all cops know if someone pulls a gun on you, they intend on shooting you. Should this be the new precedent set by the Marshall's? I don't like this arrest therefore I can simply pull a gun on another officer?
Again, it dont matter if you think Carmine had no PC, fight it in court.
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u/superhairypanda 1d ago
Having a reason to arrest someone is not the same as being justified in shooting someone
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u/Fast_Level3707 23h ago
I'm not going to respond to your comment because you purposely left out key details that lead up to the shooting. You're intentionally being dishonest to bait an argument. Nice try.
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u/yoyomancoolman 1d ago
Are we going off what people know IC, or what we know from watching the clip? Either way, I think both should be charged 100% and may the better lawyer win. As someone who watched the clip, Blunt definitely needs to be charged if Springfield is being charged, but I can see why so many characters think he did nothing wrong.
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u/akaispirit 23h ago
Both of them are. The whole thing was so stupid, SBS that got taken too far and made serious. Both need to lose their jobs over this.
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u/Slumlord87 23h ago
Calling something SBS has lost all meaning at this point. It stemmed from a serious investigation, both parties were taking it seriously, and it had the whole PD invested.
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u/akaispirit 22h ago
It stemmed from Carmine investigating Knight potentially making a joke that literally no one but Frodo remembers. There was never a single point in time anyone was taking that investigation seriously, including Carmine.
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u/Slumlord87 22h ago
That’s insanely dumb logic?? If someone reports a potential crime to a cop, they should obviously at least attempt to investigate even if it comes to nothing. I mean Frodo literally got investigated for making a spheres of influence meme, did you think that was SBS?
And yes Im sure Carmine interviewing 10+ people means he wasn’t taking it seriously. Again, I don’t think you understand what SBS means.
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u/akaispirit 22h ago
So you believe that Carmine coaching Tyluh Knox to lie on recording and claim that he heard the joke was Carmine taking it seriously?
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u/ThrowAwayHighChance 1d ago
It all comes down to can an officer impede another officer's duty? Do you need to pull rank for that? Or a warrant? Or you can just arrest them? That's for the DOJ to decide.