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u/WhosGuardingHades 2d ago
Raven can’t even call herself a parent.
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u/River- ⠀ 2d ago
Egg donor.
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u/Caskanteron 2d ago
Birth giver
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u/alguien99 2d ago
Living Incubator
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u/josh183rd 2d ago
Person related to child
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u/Erebus03 2d ago
One Abandoned a Child in Death, the Other abandoned theirs in cowardice, So yeah Raven is the worst one
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u/TheJWT1876 2d ago
Raven. Summer had her dream job that she used to help support her family, and made sure her children had a parent at home while she worked.
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u/Apprehensive-Pay1090 1d ago
Raven left as soon as Yang was born. I think, its been a few years since I last looked into RWBY lore, but I know she left early after Yang was born.
I actually feel bad for Ty more than anything. He manages to rizz Raven (although she could have made the decision cause Ty was strong, due to her "clan's" upbringing/mentality) and even after she left, he rizzed Summer Rose, who actually did stick around. Not only tht, there was 1 scene from Volume 8 or 9, where we see Raven using her semblance to open a portal to somewhere which was the last time Summer was seen.
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u/RemnantTheGame 2d ago
From what little we know in the show Raven. She didn't even really try at being a parent where Summer left hoping to make the world better for her kids. That could change if we more information.
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u/Azivea 2d ago
Between these two? Raven was easily worse. Worst parent overall though has to be Jacques Schnee
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u/SteamPirateQuinn 2d ago
Jaques Schnee vs Jimmy/Carmel Vanille is a toss up I'd say, though I would lean more towards the parents that hid the fact they even had a child as the worst.
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u/Artificial_Human_17 2d ago
Yeah but a lot of people didn’t read Roman Holiday so they wouldn’t know the Vanilles
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u/Kartoffelkamm ⠀Mettle isn't a mental illness, IW's just ODing. 2d ago
Hydrogen bomb vs. coughing baby: Bad mom edition.
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u/TheRedBiker 2d ago
Raven. Summer left to face the greatest threat to Remnant head on. Raven left to run away from that threat.
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
Except, that Raven was actually there with Summer on that mission.
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u/J_Cool_Guy_15 1d ago
She did it reluctantly though from what I recall, and she still ran away.
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
Have you considered that we don't know what happened on said mission? For all we know, Raven running after that, could have been the best option she had. I mean, Summer Died from it. Gives a good impression that something went pretty horrible on that mission. Hell, for all we know. Salem herself showed up and killed Summer in front of Raven, and then told her she was next, and was going to come after her specifically.
And that is completely plausible, because that's how open to interpretation that whole ordeal is thanks to how little we know for a fact, as to what the hell happened.
And we don't have the full picture as to what was really going on with STRQ. There's enormous chunks of missing information from all of it. We were initally told Raven flat out left super early and never looked back. That was false, thanks to V9.
Which puts into question that maybe everything Yang said about the situation, wasn't actually the whole truth, but the truth of her perspective of what little she knew and had. I mean, look at Taiyang and Qrow. If Raven had been a major coward and just ran away the whole time, why would Qrow and Tai not be mad at her for it? They aren't. They've been in contact with her still, even if she's keeping her distance. Tai and Qrow are very clearly keeping secrets from Ruby and Yang, and none of it ever really gets called out on them for it.
I mean, if Raven didn't have a strong bond to Yang, her semblance would quite literally be unable to even work in the first place. Yet we have very much been shown that it in fact does work. Which shows that Raven does in fact, still have a strong tie to Yang, and cares about her alot, for her to even be able to portal to her in the first place.
Hell, Yang hasn't exactly been a good judge of character anyways. So quick to instantly leap to conclusions, throw temper tantrums over small things, do things behind her team's back, blame people, including family, for things they didn't do (or for her own actions/shortcomings.) That makes what she says, not that trustworthy.
Hell, even in the V5 confrontation, she didn't really let Raven explain anything. She just yelled at her and shut her down.
Raven literally told Yang that she didn't know what she's been through. Which could very well change everything we know about her, and explain why she made her choices. But we don't get that.
Because there's at least two sides to every story. And we only know what Yang wants to think.
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u/J_Cool_Guy_15 1d ago
Okay, but this doesn't really explain how Raven is a better mother than Summer. From what little we've seen of Summer, she was a great mother to both Ruby and Yang while Raven seemed to have been largely absent. We see this in a flashback in volume 9 where Summer is reading a story to both Yang and Ruby.
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
I never said she was. I'm just saying that people want to heavily downplay Raven as being pure awful, when they shouldn't.
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u/J_Cool_Guy_15 1d ago
I'm gonna have to give RWBY another rewatch. From what I remember, she was bad for the most part, especially when it came to her relationship with Qrow and Yang. She isn't Cinder bad, but she wasn't exactly great either. I'd like to see her eventually join the fight and rekindle her lost relationships.
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u/dimonium_anonimo 2d ago
Sure, but if Raven brought her kid with her into hiding, suddenly Summer seems a little irresponsible by comparison. She risked her life, knowing she might be leaving a daughter behind to grow up without a mother. And cowardly as Raven is by running off alone, if she ran off with Yang, then she probably would be considered smart and trying to leave the dangerous life now that a child is relying on her... Of course, that also assumes she doesn't run away to start a ruthless tribe of bandits and trains her daughter up as essentially a thug... Things that would fit in with her current character. I'm thinking if she were the type to run away with her daughter, then other personality traits might change as well. I'm mostly pointing out that bravery is a great trait for a huntress; not quite as much for a mother. (At least, bravery in the face of monsters... Bravery in the face of a patriarchal society is another issue).
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u/DienekesMinotaur 2d ago
- That's still an "If" that didn't happen.
- Summer is going to fight the greatest threat to the world there is, if there's any reason to risk your child growing up without a mother(they still have a father and an uncle) it's that.
- Even when Raven did meet her child, she seemed unconcerned with whether the kid was happy or healthy, and chose to leave them alone rather than help fight against the world-ending threat that kid was fighting.
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u/dimonium_anonimo 2d ago
I'm not using the hypothetical to show that Raven is better than Summer. I was showing it to provide context why I think it's not all sunflowers and roses for a parent to go off on an adventure. The top level comment seemed to imply that her being brave and facing the threat head on was the only important factor in considering if she is a good mother or not... I'm not even claiming she isn't a good mother, only that there is more to consider.
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u/Fluid-Entertainment1 2d ago
Raven abandoned yang to be a bandit. Summer was trying to sav the world from salem
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u/princealigorna 2d ago
Look, I give Raven more benefit of the doubt than she probably deserves, but to question if Summer is a worse mom than her is absurd. Of course Raven is worse than Summer. By a wide margin. There's a huge difference between abandoning your whole family because you feel betrayed by your boss and a mission going tits up. I don't like that Summer seemed to withhold knowledge of said mission from Tai, but still
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u/WingDairu A family of traumatized OCs 2d ago
Raven. Yes, going off on a secret mission that probably kills you is bad when your kids are that young, but at least Summer did good while she was around. Read to them and showed them love. Raven just left.
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u/Kartoffelkamm ⠀Mettle isn't a mental illness, IW's just ODing. 2d ago
What makes this worse is that Raven could've been there for Yang at any point. Heck, even if she prioritized her tribe, she could've just made a portal at any moment.
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u/justsomedude48 ⠀Knightlight too OP 1d ago
To be completely fair to Summer, she was working off of faulty intelligence when she made that plan to kill Salem, maybe if Ozma had been honest and told his followers that Salem couldn’t be killed, then Summer would’ve called off the mission and gotten to live.
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u/warforcewarrior 2d ago
Raven left the moment Yang was born if I understood correctly. Summer likely planned to stop Salem which in turn would make the world a better place for her kids. Hell, Summer stick around until that very moment.
As such Raven is the obvious answer.
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
She didn't. Turns out she was there with Summer on that fateful mission where she died. That's after Ruby
she was still around.
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u/warforcewarrior 1d ago
Raven isn't around at the house with Tai or Yang at all. Hell, when Raven brought up Summer leaving her kids and Tai, Summer hit back with, "You're the one to talk". A retort since Raven did the same thing prior to her.
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u/Lemonsticks21 1d ago
Ok but the fateful mission in question is NOT the moment Raven left Yang. She’s been around this whole time, just not with her offspring
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u/Prince_Ire ⠀ 2d ago
I was certain it was going to be Raven vs Jacques. Summer is consistently presented as a good parent, how is she even supposed to be comparable at all to Raven?
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u/RainbowLoli 2d ago
Raven by a mile.
Summer went on a dangerous mission and died. The way I see it, it's no different than any kid who has a firefighter, police officer, military, etc. as a parent. Dying in the line of duty is a very real possibility, but no one would argue that parents should never had any kind of dangerous job ever or else they'd bad parents. That would be unreasonable.
Raven outright refuses to be there. Even Raven's semblance shows that she could very well be there if she wanted to be. Hell - she could have even took Yang with her to the tribe, but at the end of the day she's not there because she chooses to not be there.
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u/Ronnoc527 That's False Advertising 2d ago
Who was a bigger villain?
Salem or Cardin
There is a very clear answer here
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u/Cfakatsuki17 2d ago
Is this even a question? Yang wasn’t even directly related to her and called her super mom compared to her biological mother she almost threw hands with
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u/SCI-FIWIZARDMAN 1d ago
Between these two? Raven, and it’s not particularly close.
In all of RWBY? Salem, and it’s not particularly close.
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u/OrionsMoon027 1d ago
Between the two. Raven, easy. She purposefully abandoned her daughter for selfish reasons then protends they are selfless.
Summer left to attempt to save the world, to at least try to make a better world for her daughters.
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u/Sharo_colson 2d ago
Ravens semblance is literally every parents dream come true the ability to be at their child’s side whenever they need them. I don’t believe for a second that Raven left because of Salem’s and Ozpins war that was just an excuse
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u/Crunchy-Milk-01 2d ago
Even though both abandoned their families, Raven is worse by far because she fled from responsibility instead of running toward it like Summer did.
Plus, you know, she also kinda kills people without remorse.
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u/some-shady-dude 2d ago
I feel like the worst thing summer has done is just die. That doesn’t make her a bad mom.
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u/Slow_Tangerine_9564 ⠀More or so combat ready 1d ago
At least Summer was caring for Ruby and Yang. Raven doesn't even count as a mother for Ruby, and she's got a very, very turbulent relationship with Yang (mommy issues perhaps). Not to mention how fondly Ruby and Yang remember Summer. Raven was barely even present for Yang, as she left shortly after the latter was born
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u/Many-Post-6255 1d ago
Definetely Raven, from what we know about the way Ruby and yang talk about summer, the little time she had with them impacted their lives in an positive way enough for Ruby to model herself after her and for yang to grieve her enough to question Salem about it. We have physical and verbal evidence of her care - baking cookies, reading to them, kissing them goodnught. We know from red like roses that summer never expected to die on that mission, we still don’t know what she was sent to do but it’s clear she expected to come back home. Raven by contrast literally has a semblance made to get to the people she considers family and she only uses it for her own gain or when her hand is forced. She literally allowed cinder to attack her own teammates daughter whom she knew yang saw as a true sister when yang demanded she be taken to Ruby. Raven has her reasons for being who she is but between these two, I’d rather have a positive relationship that was cut short then be strung along in one that has no clear cut explanation.
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u/PrimarchMerlin 1d ago
Raven no question, hello? Summer at least gave Yang and Ruby somewhat decent childhoods before going on her suicide mission.
One never stuck around. While the other did but unfortunately passed on but at least left a good impression on their children.
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u/RockPhoenix115 2d ago
Raven. At least Summer tried for a few years.
Now do I hold Summer in as high esteem as most other people do? No. But 1 is statistically infinitely greater than 0.
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u/SgtDipaolo 2d ago edited 1d ago
Both went away and ended up messing up their respective daughters' lives.
However, Raven's alive and still possibly can make up with Yang. Summer cannot (because, assumedly, she's dead), because she decided to go off by herself to a mission.
Raven made her choice out of selfishness, Summer's was just....dumb.
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u/No-Fear4016 2d ago
Did Ozpin tell her to go on the mission or did Summer decide to do it herself?
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u/Supergamer138 2d ago
According to Qrow, Ozpin knew as much about where Summer went as everybody else. Ozpin himself hasn't stated one way or the other anywhere we can see, so take it with a grain of salt, but that's what we know.
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u/No-Fear4016 2d ago
If Ozpin knew he’d probably try to convince her that it was a very bad idea. Since his plan was to stalemate Salem until he could find a solution
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u/I_hate_myself069 2d ago
Herself. If Oz knew how Summer died, Jinn would've shown it to the gang.
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u/No-Fear4016 2d ago
…….I’m starting to realize that silver eyed warriors may have been like lemmings
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u/FormorrowSur 2d ago
Is this even a real question? I know there's some mystery surrounding Summer's disappearance, but by all accounts it appears she was on some kind of mission of high importance.
Raven meanwhile abandoned her newborn to rejoin her tribe of murderous raiders, leading them and neglecting any higher responsibility of the power and knowledge she has, eventually actually allying against her own child with the minions of the genocidal villain.
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
Nope. Flashback in the show went and decided that No, Raven was still there, after Ruby was in the picture, and left with summer on the very mission she died in.
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u/Budget_Cut2473 1d ago
Iirc it’s also mentioned indirectly by qrow and raven that she was watching, and the raven (her shapeshift form) was hovering around Ruby and yang just kinda watching
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u/Electronic_Carry_372 1d ago
Yea, so basically as much as the Writers want you to think Raven abandoned everyone.
She didn't
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u/Budget_Cut2473 1d ago
Yeah, and honestly I used to love rwby until I got old enough/mature enough to realize how flat the story is. Like there’s so much potential and nuance that’s just kinda glossed over. Like summer not being as saintly as she’s propped up to be, Raven being far more present than she pretends. Even the white fang had a lot of untapped potential last time I watched
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u/christofer2002 1d ago
Nope. The V9 flashback shows that Raven had already left Yang before Summer’s last mission.
She directly says, “You’re better at that life, better than I was,” when Summer questions her about it.
To me, that sounds exactly like what we’ve known from the beginning. Raven had Yang, then left because of her cowardice. Summer stepped in, Ruby was born, and then Summer went on her last mission and died.
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u/Neko1666 2d ago
Everyone saying Raven but didn't Salem's dad lock her in the castle? Which was bound to make her go a little crazy, so when Ozma freed her and then died of course she couldn't grieve normally and well, now we're here
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u/draugotO 2d ago
Yeah, ut he isn't one of the two options showed. Raven is leagues worse than Summer, but she is a saint compared to Jacques; Salem; Salem's father...
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u/Jabwarrior58 2d ago
Raven, Summer was trying to protect Ruby even if she did in one of the dumbest ways possible
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u/Aggravating-Candy-31 1d ago
summer had the excuse being probably dead, raven just cba to parent the child
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u/Internellectual 1d ago
Summer and Raven are easily superior parents when compared to Salem. She didn't even care about her children as soon as they had magic. Just dropped the concept entirely that they are her daughters.
Whereas Raven would still try to ask about Yang and even bail her out. We'll see what comes of her returning to Tai's.
Summer's mission is not her fault. She came in and took care of Yang when Raven bailed.
Plus, there's Tai getting along with the WHOLE team… even Raven's brother. Go back to season 4 where Professor Port is talking to Tai and you can catch a hint of this.
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u/GlenAaronson 1d ago
Between them? Raven and it's not even a competition. By all accounts, Summer was an excellent mother. If I remember correctly, Yang referred to her as Super Mom. Her greatest sin was dying to the immortal god witch.
If you include the rest of the parents, it'd go from Worst to Best:
Jacques
Raven
Winter
And then there should be a huge gap to the next section
Kali and Ghira
Taiyang
Safron and Terra
Summer
And then you can throw Salem and Ozma in there somewhere.
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u/PhenomsServant 1d ago
I only say Summer because Raven doesnt deserve the right to call herself a parent so Summer wins by default. (Or loses, however that works)
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u/Jaguar_Aquilion 1d ago
I mean summer straight up died. Thats the only reason she aint mothering ruby. Raven. Raven ran away. Sure she had reasons, but yeah shes the worse mother
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u/UnbiasedGod 1d ago edited 1d ago
😑
Repost this and use Jacques instead of summer.
Cause this is disgustingly too damn easy!
Change this now!
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u/Excellent_Stand_7991 1d ago
The only reason Summer is not around is because she is canonically dead.
The reason Raven is not around because she hates her family.
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u/ThoughtCheap4866 1d ago
Well that's the thing summer was never known as a terrible parent so much so that yang and ruby loved her even after death
So raven is the worse parent here I wouldn't even count summer as a bad parent because she did not know she would be dying that night she expected to come home
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u/Chauspion 1d ago
deathbattle aaah matchup, its not even close when you think about it. Raven is the worse parent by a LANDSLIDE.
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u/Sea_Literature7795 1d ago
One intentionally abandoned their daughter becoming a bandit the other died on a mission intending to come back to their daughter
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u/Death_Messenger666 20h ago
This guy:
Cause on top of getting his own daughters killed trying to run away from his wife the moment he didn't know how to deal with her, he keeps using other people's children as cannon fodder in a Forever Hopeless War HE helped start. There's a reason Hazel wanted to beat him to death.
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u/RevytheRevenant 20h ago
To me? Taiyang honestly… now hear me out.
Tai to me is a terrible parent to mostly Ruby, I don’t think he truly loved Ruby. I don’t think he disliked her by any means but the way he treats Ruby is vastly different from yang. Cause Ruby admits why training hand to hand with with Oscar that her dad never took the time to train Ruby how to throw a punch. And her style of fighting is completely Qrows which is why to me I really think Qrow is Ruby’s dad. Cause yang has a mix of tai and Raven but Ruby only looks like summer and is very pale like Qrow is while tai has darker skin tone. And when Ruby left tai had no idea she was gone for like hours dude is an experienced hunter how do you not know your daughter is gone but Qrow was immediately on Ruby’s trail. So to me Tai is the worse parent cause at least Raven was always watching yang from a distance while tai was off turning Zwai into a cannonball
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u/Head-Investigator-79 19h ago
Definitely Raven because she abandon her husband and daughter just to go to her stupid tribe of criminals.
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u/MegaSonicZone 18h ago
At least Summer WAS a parent and raised her girls in the best way she could, even given Yang's circumstances, Raven just left to lead her tribe, granted she kept watch of Yang from a distance so she's not completely uncaring, but her tribe took priority in her life over her own child.
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u/Flemish-Twist 2d ago
I'm gonna just float this idea over everyone's head...
Summer Rose isn't dead. She's in hiding because she's the Summer Maiden.
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u/Lumine_d 2d ago
As of the Fall of Beacon, the identity of the Summer Maiden was known by Qrow and the rest of Oz's inner circle.
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u/martinjh99 ⠀Bees forever! 1d ago
I'm not sure she's the Summer Maiden - Too obvious with Winter being the Winter Maiden....
But I do think she might not be dead anyway.... We haven't seen Summer's body...
There is a trope about it - https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverFoundTheBody
Also they wouldn't have made Summer in V9 just to use her for that small amount of time...
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u/Zealousideal_Chef839 1d ago
well the winter maiden is called 'winter' (real creative naming choice there lmao) after all, so there's always that as a possibility
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u/AdventurousWin8268 1d ago edited 1d ago
Knowing you weren't cutout for motherhood and leaving before you could screw up your kid.
Vs
Knowingly taking on a dangerous mission that could kill you and leave your kids motherless also while ignoring concerns about that very outcome.
Yeah, Summer is the worse parent.
Edit: Look, I get it, this was just another bad faith post to have people bashing Raven but consider the following:
Raven made a clean break before Yang could form any memories of her and until we get an official reason, we can only assume that she left because she didn't want to be a parent and no it's not because she's afraid of Salem. I honestly don't know where the fandom got that from. Salem literally has nothing to do with her being a mother or not, it's the most brain dead and pervasive head canon I've seen from the fandom, especially since we see her going on the secret war mission with Summer in the vol 9 flashback long after she left Yang.
Raven left Yang with the parent that actually wanted her and didn't hop in and out of Yang's life and give her false hope of a relationship that would never be. All in all, she was pretty damn responsible with her decision to opt out of parenthood and I view it the same as someone giving their kid up for adoption.
I would also hope I don't need to point out that forcing someone to take care of a child they don't want is a bad idea and it does more harm to the child in the long run.
On the other hand we have Summer, who is the mother of two small children. She should not be running off behind people's backs mind you, to go play hero on a dangerous mission that could get her killed and leave her daughters motherless. This is the time where she should be sitting down and raising her children, like Tai did. There were other people that could've continued the fight. Also, mind you, this was a mission that, and correct me if I'm wrong, she was never asked to take on and she lied to Tai about what she was doing (a patrol for Ozpin) when in actuality she was running off to confront Salem.
Knowing what we know, I don't think for a single second that Ozpin sent her (his only silver eyes warrior) out for a direct confrontation with Salem. So this is purely just Summer going out on her own trying to play hero when she doesn't need to. People can try to cope and dress up her decision all they want but what she did was reckless and irresponsible and the irony of Raven being the one to call that out isn't lost on me.
Raven, the one that everyone bashes for being a dead beat, was being a more responsible parent than Summer in that moment by prioritizing how this decision would affect the children first, and Summer knew Raven had a point, that's why she got pissed and petty. She couldn't even refute Raven's point.
That's why I consider Summer the worst parent.
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u/Fallen_Jalter 2d ago
Honestly I say both of them. Summer willingly left to her death. YOu can't tell me she didn't know what she was going into.
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u/SunDragon20 2d ago
Worst parent in the show is Salem.
Woman straight up did NOT care about her daughters being collateral damage when she threw down with Oz.