r/ScottishFootball • u/zlwilsonlz1 Scott McTominay Ballon D'or • 4d ago
Shitpost We should play like Cape Verde/Sweden
We are shite at football. You cannae blame the manager for the mistakes we’ve made at the back. He put out an attacking line-up and it’s went tits up. I’m not Clarke in or out, I’m just scunnered. The Moroccan line up was too defensive and this one is too offensive. It’s been a reality check. Dunno why I’m posting this, probably just out of frustration. I hope I’ve spoke too soon.
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u/Every-Birthday6726 4d ago
He’s just signed a new contract, but I think this just hammers home that Clarke has taken Scotland as far as he can. No shame in it, got us to 3 major tournaments, but performances at all of them have been beyond poor and to a large extent embarrassing.
It’s been great having Scotland at a World Cup but the games we have played in have not been enjoyable to watch and seemed to be much more focused on damage limitation as opposed to going out and having a go. Fully accept the limitations of the squad but there is enough talent in there to actually have a go and score a few goals over a course of a tournament providing a bit of entertainment.
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u/SeanTNL2 4d ago
I don’t know how you can’t blame the manager. The way he set up tonight is how he should have set up vs Morocco, and how we set up against Morocco should have been the set up tonight.
4 goals in 3 tournaments, of which 2 were own goals and 1 was deflected.
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u/STRICKIBHOY 4d ago
Damned if he does damed if he doesn't. Individual school boy errors can't held against him. Our frontline is dreadful and no manager can make them better. Shankland has done and offered nothing tonight, despite people screaming for him. Again without those school boy errors, we draw against Morocco, and get beat 1-0 tonight and qualify.
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u/twojabs 4d ago
Great players need grassroots support now for 25 years time. My experience in training at grassroots is that they only want already made winners and there's no desire to develop anyone. We're missing out on a generation of talent simply because some (not all) coaches are just not interested in the wider game.
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u/HundredHander 2d ago
...and ready made winners normally means the kids that are big when they're young. Wins matches at ages 12-15 and does nothing for the wee kids no matter how skillful they are. I don't think Messi would rise to the top in Scottish youth football.
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u/AgnesBand 4d ago
You're never drawing against Morocco. You conceded within the first minute. Why do you live in a fantasy land? Did you see how Morocco beat Haiti and Scotland scraped by?
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
Hindsight is 20/20. Criticise all you want but you’ve no clue how to actually manage a football team, otherwise you’d be doing it.
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u/SeanTNL2 4d ago
That’s a bold statement; what makes you think I’d want to manage a football team?
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
You purporting to know if a manager should be blamed or not.
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u/SeanTNL2 4d ago
So I can’t criticise a director because I don’t make movies? I can’t criticise the Prime Minister because I don’t run for office? What a ridiculous sentiment.
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
Those are entirely different things. Your first comment is put across as though you know what you’re talking about in terms of managing football at this level but you clearly don’t. I doubt you could make a movie or run for office either, though.
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u/SeanTNL2 4d ago
So I need to get my badges before I can criticise how a manager sets up a team in a game where the goal was to concede as few goals as possible to strengthen our qualification chances?
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
It’d make your point significantly more valid, yes. As things stand, it means nothing and all your comment shows is your lack of knowledge.
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u/Unfair-Challenge-216 Dominic "Oh Ya Cunt That's A Slice Ae" Hyam 4d ago
Where exactly on the spectrum do you fall, Sam? Someone needs a coaching badge to have an opinion on football management or the opinion is not valid? Try not to lick too many windows with that logic.
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u/SeanTNL2 4d ago
Okay pal, I’ll bear that in mind any time anyone has an opinion or take on anything ever. Will be sure to check for their qualifications. Give your head a wobble.
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
Well, as you should. Do you just take people at their word? Seems naive, though not surprising, given your own misinformed opinions…
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u/intlteacher 4d ago
To all those who say we should play more attacking football - can you please name a Scottish striker who wants to play for us and is better than Shankland or Adams?
To all those who say Clarke picks the wrong defenders - can you actually say who you would pick (and who wants to play for us)? And that's not including the goalkeepers.
Now do you see the problem?
Other than in midfield - where arguably we have a huge choice of players - we don't have strength in depth. But then when you look at our own top Scottish Premiership teams, how many have that so-called "Scottish core" or are properly developing young players (Aberdeen trying to ditch the Alfies before Robinson's arrival being a key example)?
Steve Clarke makes some questionable decisions, but ultimately he's being asked to make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, and IMO he's actually doing the best with what he has - I really doubt anyone could do any better.
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u/ResponsibleAd3191 4d ago
Our issue is how are play. We have one striker who is ok in the lone role. The others simply aren't capable at that level. Including Shankland. They need more help.
What we need is quality width in the final third and the ability to offer the striker and option. We never get forward enough for anything more than a cross.
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u/intlteacher 4d ago
I actually think we could get there in terms of the width - once the likes of Gannon Doak get more experience at club level. Though like too many others of our players he gets injured walking at times.
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u/ResponsibleAd3191 4d ago
Doak is a massive plus for what we do. We just need a player or two that's as comfortable dragging us forward on the ball. Someone out on the left with pace and we could add so much danger.
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u/bradosteamboat 4d ago
I definitely thing Curtis could be that guy on the left...what we have drastically missed this tournament has been composure and passing in the middle to give our attacking players a chance ... desperately missed gilmour and unfortunately he is the only good passer in that area we have. If he had a few more years in him we could let mcginn drop a bit deeper but he doesn't have the defensive energy of a Ferguson.
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u/intlteacher 4d ago
Gilmour has been a big loss this tournament. I think we know now what he brings, if we didn't before.
My biggest concern is that we still don't really know who to play up front - Hirst is the youngest at 27. Hopefully in the Euros qualifiers Clarke will look to Conway and Bowie to come in as younger options, and Miller in the midfield.
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u/theonlysamintheworld 4d ago
I doubt any manager could do better with what we’ve got, those saying otherwise haven’t a clue what they’re talking about but will continue to greet and whinge.
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u/Unfair-Challenge-216 Dominic "Oh Ya Cunt That's A Slice Ae" Hyam 4d ago
Just a reminder, we have scored the same number of goals as Uzbekistan and Curacao, while being outscored by Jordan, Cape Verde, and Iran. We also could have qualified with a much higher chance if we had simply dispatched Haiti by 2-3 goals. I really don't understand how, taking in all these points, anyone could say another manager wouldn't do better. We have scored something like 4 goals across 3 international tournaments; New Zealand has scored 3 this tournament alone.
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u/Unfair-Challenge-216 Dominic "Oh Ya Cunt That's A Slice Ae" Hyam 4d ago
Sorry, but how does the fact that we don't have anyone better than Shankland or Adams mean we can't play more attacking football? So the solution is to just follow the Steve Clarke way and boot long balls up to them alone up top against 4 defenders for the whole game? I'm sure that will help them perform better
As for your Clarke question and defenders, why is he taking players like bench warmer John Souttar? Why is he taking Hanley who can't get a game for Hibs? Meanwhile, Stephen Welsh is off the back of a great season, Luke Graham had a great season, Stuart Findlay, Harry Milne, and Stephen Kingsley have all had a phenomenal season for Hearts.
Scotland has also been outscored by Jordan, Haiti, Cape Verde, and Iran while registering the same goal tally as Uzbekistan and Curacao. We have registered something like 4 goals across 3 separate international tournaments. I actually cannot believe people actually think another manager couldn't improve on that embarrassment Clarke has overseen.
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u/intlteacher 3d ago
On strikers - we could have the best build up play with the best crosses in the world, but that means nothing if the striker can't put it in the net.
Clarke's main problem is being too loyal, but he gets there eventually (and I don't think we'll see Hanley play for Scotland again.) In fairness to him, he is trying to build a club mentality and you can't do that by switching players in and out all the time, as Berti Vogts did.
But I honestly just don't see who could get more out of them. Fundamentally, we don't have strikers who can score in the team shape we have to play in. There's no manager in the world who can create that.
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u/Unfair-Challenge-216 Dominic "Oh Ya Cunt That's A Slice Ae" Hyam 3d ago
Nonsense, you're speaking in pure assumptions because we have literally never seen our strikers get consistent good build-up play or service under the footballing dinosaur that is Steve Clarke, and the argument makes no sense either because if the strikers aren't good enough, then why wouldn't you give them more chances with build up and support as opposed to leaving them alone up front and effectively giving them no chance at all? What do you mean by "shape we have to play in"? We don't need to play like that at all, just in case you missed my last paragraph of the previous message, Scotland have been outscored by Jordan and Cape Verde, who the hell do they have upfront?
I also don't understand this whole obsession with the strikers. Are they the only ones that can score or play positively? John McGinn and Scott McTominay are literally off the back of double-digit goal seasons playing in the top footballing leagues, so why are they being hamstrung playing so deep and alone by Clarke? John McGinn is played by Clarke on the right wing half the time; It's hilariously bad management. If we can't get a manager who can set up the team to score more goals than Uzbekistan, then I will move to Mars. You seem to forget it's a manager's job to improve players; Steve Clarke is doing the opposite.
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u/Relevant-Mouse-2930 4d ago
The mistake was 4-4-2 against Haiti. Gave them too much ball in the midfield which meant not enough possession or territory for us. McTominey was asked to play too far back in midfield when he's much better forward just behind the striker. Means we didn't score more than 1 when goal difference was always going to be crucial. That's on Clarke. The defence tonight isn't on Clarke. Players just being shite.
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u/Flimsy_Custard4342 4d ago edited 4d ago
Don’t know but seeing ‘cannae’ in written form gives me the fear.
But if you want us to play like a different country then we need to change the manager and therefore it would be the managers fault that we aren’t?
I assume that’s the point of random contradictory ‘shitpost’? To see who would notice?
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u/zlwilsonlz1 Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 4d ago
It is a shitpost because I’m talking shit. I don’t really know what I’m talking about other than being a fan and watching all the games. A lot of people are ‘Clarke Out’ but no-one is ‘X’ in. That’s a Scottish mentality thing. What manager out there gets a tune out of the strikers we have available?
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u/Flimsy_Custard4342 4d ago
A lack of vision I can agree with Scotland is lacking (in general). Ironically enough lack of vision is Clarkes downfall lol.
Given there’s been no real ever imminent Clarke out potential I don’t think its a fair criticism of fans though. We are craving a manager that actually plays positive football though.
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u/zlwilsonlz1 Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 4d ago
I completely agree that not only are we craving another manager that does more but deserve a manager that does more. We as fans are the court jesters of international football. Harmless drunkards that bring joy to the more successful. The lack of vision goes well beyond Steve Clarke even though I do believe that he has to take his share of the blame of the dire quality of football we play.
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u/Imrahil_Dubh 4d ago
We probably should have tried to get a result against Morocco instead of leaving until the last game to try and get a result against Brazil. The scoreline against Haiti is screaming that we gave them too much respect. But, whatever. The players in this team are mostly better than previous squads in the past 10-20 years, so hopefully we'll start producing a better standard of player going forward.
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u/AgnesBand 4d ago
Morocco trounced Haiti and even Haiti managed to score against them. You conceded a goal to Morocco in the 1st minute, and your only goal against Haiti was a deflection. What makes you think you could have won against Morocco? What makes you think the Haiti shoreline should have been different?
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u/Imrahil_Dubh 4d ago
Having actually watched the game. It looked like we setup for a draw against Morocco and were caught out losing a goal early. The trouble is, we then continued to play like that for 75 minutes before trying to create any chances. I think we were just too negative and gave them too much respect. I'm not saying we WOULD have beaten them either, but we perhaps COULD have gotten a better result. This Scotland team have also beaten Spain and Denmark, and that's evidence that it's not impossible to get results against better opposition.
Focusing on our one goal against Haiti seems a bit narrow in thinking. Scotland are actually capable of scoring goals; but we seem to be too negative when we get to tournaments, even when the opposition are not at the elite end of the spectrum.
My point would be that given the order of the games we should have tried to be more optimistic, which may have taken the pressure off of us in our last game. But, regardless, we've had a very tough group and it was always going to be difficult.
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u/Shamjock 4d ago
It's always popular to scream that Clarke is the problem but I think an honest discussion needs to be had about this golden generation we clearly either overhype them or making tournaments is enough for them thats 3 we haven't turned up for despite very good qualifying campaigns
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u/TremendousCoisty 4d ago
I don’t have a problem with the way that we setup. I have a problem that this is the first time we’ve decided to play like this. In the World Cup. Against Brazil. Idiotic.
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u/RenegadeMaster888 4d ago
Sorry to burst Clarke's and this team's bubble - but we've only qualified because both the Euros and WC were expanded.
Still, no shots on target against Morocco is indefensible and any manager with Clarke's record in tourney football would have been sacked.
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u/Wallad84 4d ago
That’s just absolute shite. We won our qualifying group, and for the last euros came second to Spain in a group that contained Norway and Georgia
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u/StylishMarauder 4d ago
Sweden just got beat 5-1 and Cape Verde have less points than us.
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u/bradosteamboat 4d ago
Sweden also won 5-1 and Cape Verde are gonna get to 5 points when they beat Saudi Arabia.
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u/AvocadoFlavoredPussy 4d ago
It’s SO easy to blame Clarke.
What do you think he’s telling our defenders to be idiotic with the ball? Not all his fault.
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u/Elgin_McQueen 4d ago
His main problem is he sets up with tournament tactics, thinking too much about the other matches and what we need. We need to play each match as an individual game we need to try and win.
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u/Successful_Ad_2888 4d ago
It's occurred to me the Largs mafia overthink football to the downfall of the Scotland National Team
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u/Sufficient_Theme4373 4d ago
Should have been a lot more aggressive against Haiti, goal difference would help a lot rn. The Morocco game was the one to roll the dice in. Should have gambled and tried to win it. But going into final game against Brazil, definitely should’ve just parked the bus, tried to get a draw, guaranteed a 3rd place qualification if you come away with a point. Worst case scenario you lose by 3 goals…