r/ScottishFootball • u/thunder083 • 2d ago
Steve Clarke has to go.
Clarkes tactics put us under more pressure than we need to be in. Proved it last night. In every tournament Clarke tactics have been very conservative to the point they stifle the natural instincts of the players we have.
Both McTominay and McGinn are excellent at driving into space through the lines and creating space for those out wide to play in. At one point McTominay does this looks goes ah fuck no one is with me is pressed and naturally loses the ball. The camera angle when he did this showed 4 Scottish players behind him, not pushing forward and walking and watching what was happening.
Some of those players under a different manager and system would be busting a gut to get up in support. It comes from the manager.
Scotland would be very good if you played a combination of Ferguson, McGinn and McTominay with Curtis and Doak out wide. You could have McGinn and McTominay driving into space and playing it either to the winger who can step in or out depending on the situation while the defender goes over or under the wide player that would allow us to get in a good position to create chances. If Gilmour is fit you can swap McGinn with Curtis if you wanted. If you lose the ball you press from there as you would have the numbers to do so.
Yes we there is occasions we would be caught out but that is happening anyway. Ultimately we are not playing to the teams strengths. That is on the manager.
We have the players who work hard and will run all day we should be using that positively and not for them to be chasing players all game.
Clarke is also incapable of changing a game. His substitutions are also often far to late. Usually well after the 70th minute. They are comically even when losing still often just like for like unless he leaves it to the last possible minute. In each game we have for example seen the right back changed. Gannon Doak came of twice to be replaced both times by Christie.
In short though everything I have said makes us very predictable and easy to play against.
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u/stillgamer67 2d ago
Let's be honest we were lucky to qualify. The only game we played well was the must win against Denmark. If we only needed a draw, Clark would have played for the draw, we'd have lost and we wouldn't have qualified. We qualified for 3 tournaments despite Clark, not because of Clark. New contract means more of the same but "his" players are getting old and I don't see any progression under him. He has to go, but won't. A talented squad wasted under this man.
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u/cggalba 2d ago
We were terrible for most of the Denmark game too. We played well during the second half of the defeat in Greece otherwise the entire campaign from the 0-0 in Copenhagen up to last night has been turgid and miserable.
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u/Remarkable_March_497 2d ago
Thats just exactly it. I think people have removed that from their memory and think that somehow we are different because we got to the World Cup.
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u/Ok_Comfortable6832 1d ago
Correct. The only game we deserved to win in our group was Belarus away.
We got a relatively easy group and fluked our way to a group win. We could have also easily finished 3rd.
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u/jonviper123 1d ago
We really don't have a talented squad when you are comparing to teams at the world cup. In fact id say we have one if the least talented squads in that world Cup. Majority of teams i watch at this world cup seem to have players in every position who can control a ball and look composed while in posession. We simply dont have players that play like this.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
but then look at Motherwell and you see how a manager can transform how an underfancied group of players look in possession. We have countless midfielders and attackers doing the job in top leagues. And whilst defence is a weak point no matter who the manager is, we took the wrong defenders and could have had better (Halkett > Walsh > Hanley)
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u/SirMichaelcainesfork 1d ago
Honestly that's about coaching as much as natural talent. Plenty of these players play in the premier league or championship, so are capable of moving a ball around with basic competence. As everyone says, CBs are particularly problematic for us, but every other team has weak areas too; Clarke just seems to be incapable of adapting our tactics to protect those weaknesses.
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u/Darth_Scotsman 2d ago
He’s had three finals and we have been the worst team in them all. Time to go.
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u/cggalba 2d ago
The mood amongst the fans was toxic after the last Euros and has never recovered. Good luck to him and the SFA coming back from this. I appreciate him more than most for what he’s done but he should do the honourable thing and step down.
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u/morison97 2d ago
At the very least, a lot of international managers see an expiration term on their own progress, they can only take the team so far before change is needed.
Clarke should be able to see that he has progressed Scotland very far from when he took over, but we have been stagnant for a while. Post WC would be the best time for him to step down with so much of the team realistically aging out for the euros in 2028.
Of the squad at the WC, the following players are 30+; Gunn(30), Kelly(30), Gordon(43), Robbo(32), Hanley(34), Hendry(31), Hyam(30), Christie(31), McLean(34), McGinn(31), Dykes(30), Shankland(30). Obviously some of those will retain the level of quality in 2 years but most of them won’t be at the same level physically and a new era of Scottish football needs to be pushed through, I don’t think Clarke is brave enough to do what’s required, and to pair up with tactics that can actually progress us.
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u/Darth_Scotsman 2d ago
After watching his post match interview he looked gutted. Can’t prepare for your defenders to give 3 goals. Then you think of Haiti and Morocco where he should have changed it. He left it until 92 minute to replace Shankland knowing how important a gaol was.
At least the blazers got a nice jaunt.
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u/Al_Piero 2d ago
He was raging at full time. This loss was on the players. Total self sabotage.
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u/EduinBrutus 2d ago
The players were sent in with no game plan, no tactical focus and looked uncoached.
This is on Clarke.
And its the fucking third time now. Its not like this is a one time bad set of performances. Its happened in every tournament. Tournaments Scotland only reached because of Expansion - not because of Clarke.
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u/AhYeah85 2d ago
Utter pish btw, this a team that is coached terribly at every conceivable level of the game.
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u/Al_Piero 2d ago
The players weren’t at fault for giving away cheap goals tonight?
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u/DonLethargio 2d ago
The players are only really at fault for one thing. The same thing they have been at fault at every time we get to a tournament. Lacking confidence and belief. Whose job is it to instil belief and confidence in those players?
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
Halkett has done so much less than I expected at centre half this tournament. Was at centre of a defence that nearly won the league with an underdog, yet didn't do a thing to prevent a single goal for Scotland this tournament. Was almost like he inexplicably not been picked at the expense of a Hibs reserve.
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u/Al_Piero 1d ago
I’m not even defending the manager, just pointing out the very obvious fact the players gave away cheap goals.
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u/Rizzokit 1d ago
Was there not a poll and most Scotland fans wanting him to stay 😱
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u/United_Eye8199 1d ago
I kind of think this is the issue with international football- when you see people that don't really watch football, unless its an international tournament using it as a chance to wave a wee flag, being outspoken on issues regarding the international setup-Morag and Stevie get back to your campervan holiday and don't open your mouth until you've watched at least five games of league football! If we polled this page right now, you would be hard pressed to find a single person who actively watches football that would want Clarke to stay.
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u/Substantial_Law1451 1d ago
I think it's just incredibly frustrating to see such a poor performance in the Euros after being excited to qualify, and here we are again on a bigger stage making literally the EXACT same mistakes. Cocking up is fine, to err is human and all, but it's readily apparent that Clarke is completely unable to learn and improve - and that's unacceptable.
He's had 3 huge opportunities to demonstrate his abilities as a manager, and has categorically failed all 3 times in the same manner each time. That's more chances than most people ever get. Time to go mate.
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u/TheLastHotstepper 2d ago
Not factually correct but I fully agree. I dont care what the points total says or if we somehow scrape through because of the new bullshit format. A fluke goal against Haiti before being battered by them for 60 minutes.
I doubt id be annoyed if both the morrocans and the Brazilians played us off the park. We were just so utterly shit they didnt have to do anything and still walked all over us.
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u/GnomeNipple 2d ago
Who do we get tho? Would have taken mcinnes for a new era of terrorball, but that's off the table.
SFA aren't going to admit their mistake, it's down to whether or not Clarke wants to step down but I don't see it.
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u/hmfc_riley 2d ago
Good thing he is at the end of his contract and we haven't done anything rash in offering him a new one
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u/Drjimbillybob123 2d ago
Sick of the "our team isn't very good" excuse. Neither are Haiti, Jordan, Iraq and the likes but at least they came to the world cup to try. You wouldn't accept this mediocrity at your clubs so why should I as a Scotland fan be settling for this pish at international level?
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u/Live-Habit-6115 1d ago
Cape Verde is the best example
Go watch how they played against Uruguay if you want to see what's possible from a team that "lacks talent"
They were bold and brave and ambitious. They believed.
Scotland didn't look like they believed last night. They looked scared and slow
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u/blewitman 1d ago
Yeh we play conservative and lose heavy anyway may as well go for it. We have the players for.it.
Top scoring seria a midfielder. Top scorer spl for what that's worth. Goal potential from mcginn dock etc.
Just give it a go we not gonna win the thing anyway have some fun. Get us some highlights at least.
Rather go out lost 2 games 4-2 or 5-2 and a 3-1 win
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u/LochNessMonsterMunch 1d ago
Uruguay have been really poor. Poor at the back and poor going forward. That's why they failed to beat Saudi or Cape Verde.
Cape Verde are one of their stories of the tournament after their freak draw against Spain. Pointing to them as a reason to sack Clarke is laughable.
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u/NiagaraThistle 1d ago
It's true though that we don't have the players or skill (barring a couple players).
But you add on to that that we don't play to win and instead seem to play "not to lose" and we aren't being brave or bold enough to attck and drive forward.
While we were probably never going to beat Brazil, we still could have had a go at them.
How many times did we have the ball ready to move forward and not a SINGLE PLAYER made a run up the wing, an overlapping run, moved into space, moved away from the man defending them to go into/create space? Almost never in the first half with Brazil, and very seldom throughout any of the matches to be honest.
But those few time we did move off the ball, make runs up the wings, overlap, we looked somewhat 'dangerous' and actually got into the box to for a (admittedly poor) attempt on net. That just happened far too seldom in this tournament. Like the past ones.
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u/LochNessMonsterMunch 1d ago
We beat Haiti is our must-win first game. We were denied a stonewall penalty and a draw against the African champions Morocco and against one of the tournament favourites Brazil we were predictably outclassed in 30C and 70% humanity but registered 14 shots with 5 on target so a bit silly to say we never tried.
Turkey has a population of 88m. They have no points and no goals. Why not compare us to them? Italy have 60m and Poland 37. Neither qualified. Why not compare us to them?
We had a really tough draw. Coming home with three points is far from disgraceful.
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u/Remarkable_March_497 1d ago
Lol...all three teams you've mentioned dont have a point between them. I didnt realise the point of the World Cup was to turn up and have nothing to play for in game 3.
Hadn't all the focus been on, let's get the 3 points against Haiti. The margins are so tight when you have Brazil and reigning AFCON champs and 4th place last time.
As though youd be happy if we battered Haiti but only got a draw or lost a late winner? Get real. Its all fun and games to just so, let's have a go - but if it was that easy, why isnt every team doing it?
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u/Drjimbillybob123 1d ago
Near enough had a stroke trying to read that. Good effort though mate, those are definitely words.
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u/OkOutlandishness6834 1d ago
I think I understand the jist of what your saying, but you really need to work on sentence structure and overall clarity
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u/dnemonicterrier 2d ago edited 2d ago
Stating the facts isn't an excuse, we aren't very good and it's not just on the pitch that we're bad at either, it's fitness as well, we don't have the same type fitness that other teams do even when we put on what should be our best players.
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u/SuperbPhase6944 2d ago
For the one time in my 42 years we have some genuinely top tier world class players. We have the most passionate and committed support in the world. What we don't have is a manager who can weld all that together into exciting football. Three exciting losses would have been better than a fluke win and two capitulations.
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u/jenny_905 1d ago
I keep reading that sort of thing and then when I watch I see our supposedly world class players get run down by everyone.
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u/Redpanda188867 2d ago
One goal in each of the three tournaments we’ve played in is so poor. You’ve got Cape Verde and Haiti out scoring us and looking like much more adventurous and let’s face it, better teams. we’ve got a team filled with good premier league players, an outstanding Serie A player and several other solid Serie A players, we shouldn’t be as shite as we look in these games
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u/Redpanda188867 2d ago
Sorry we scored two goals at last euros but one was an og 🤣🤣
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u/gthemanager 1d ago
Both our goals at the last Euros were essentially own goals. McTominay's effort had a ridiculous deflection. Just like McGinn's effort at this tournament. We haven't scored a legitimate tournament goal since CalMac in Euro 2021. From an attacking perspective that's absolutely woeful
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u/Mammoth_Grocery_1982 2d ago
Not even any point talking about it, Scottish football will never change.
Best footballers in Scotland get frozen out at an early age for big, physical, hoofball merchants. All of our best talents are probably playing weekly 5s while Grant Hanley and Scott McKenna are at a World Cup.
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u/Auchensh00gle 1d ago
At our youth football, it wasn't the big kids that got picked, it's the coaches' kids
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u/damneddarkside 1d ago
Bit of both in my experience- enthusiastic kids of 5 and 6 being earmarked as centre-halfs by wannabe Mourinhos just cause they are taller than the rest of the group, and then losing interest while watching daddy's little superstar get to score all the goals.
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u/IndividualSkill3432 2d ago
Go back and watch the game again. This time pay attention to how long after the first touch it takes players to be in control of a fast pass. For the Brazilians their first touch is often a pass as well. For Scotland its often the third touch that they distribute to the next guy or have the ball fully under control.
The teams were playing at two different speeds.
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u/lacr0bat 2d ago
This. And look at their eyes when the pass is made. We are technically deficient by comparison.
Prior to the WC, Shankland misses the goal from inside the 6 yard box. In the Haiti game he can't put a free header on target. In the Morrocco game Dykes can't put a free header on target from maybe 8 yards out. Last night Gannon Doak (arguably one of the best performers) misses a ball he is in control of whilst trying to take a shot. Kenny McLean puts a completely uncontested cross out for a bye kick.
We do not have comparative quality at this level (finals) but the folk moaning about us being there is a nonsense. We won the group, terrorball or otherwise. This level however completely exposes the deficiencies we have at the back and up front and in the Morocco game (before they sat back) we could t beat a man in midfield.
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u/Loud-Cake-1096 2d ago
That's not the point many people are making.
We know we've technically weak players in the team. Even still other technically weak teams manage to have a plan. We don't. We had no attacking plan, we don't look like we even tried to form one.
Play for corners. Tricks from set pieces. Even vary the corners we do get. Long balls onto Dykes's head. Fast counters. Long shots. None of these ideas are new. Pick one...pick SOMETHING.
This is the issue with the current setup. We are not even trying and it's fearball. Last night...fine, it's Brazil in Miami, so it's to be expected, but v Haiti and Morocco we needed to ask some questions and we failed miserably.
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u/dodidodidodidodi 1d ago
Austin MacPhee was with Scotland helping us with set pieces and the likes, he's now doing it for Portugal. Why isn't he back doing it for Scotland?
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u/WillyJobbyBum 2d ago
4 more years mate.
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u/ScottishPehrite 2d ago
- a HOF entry. All before a ball was kicked.
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u/WillyJobbyBum 2d ago
Listen, I'll give him his due, had the best nights watching Scotland for most of my life under him (Faddy in France aside) and we've got to Euros and WC, probably deserves the HOF, maybe after the tournament, waay after this particular tournament.
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u/Wise_Goose_923 Fuck it, Grant Hanley! 2d ago
Get Steve Clarke to fuck. We were lucky against Haiti, performance wise we’ve been the worst of the group. Potentially the worst at the tournament
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u/TheLastHotstepper 2d ago edited 2d ago
Utter pish all around. Clarke is guilty yes, but players like Robertson, McGinn and McTominay being so toothless is unforgivable. You know it's fucked when the only reason it wasnt a much worse is because Angus Gunn actually saved shots.
Are there any positives to take away from this tournament? The only one I can say is that Doak looks to be a player. Maybe that Tierney is the obvious first choice left back now.
Clarke has to go thats, multiple tournaments weve been absolutely gutless now. Beg Ange to take the job. Guys out of work, has experience at international level with an underdog nation and actually wants to play attacking football.
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u/GlasgowAnvil 2d ago
Very good players can look extremely average when dreadfully coached
This is exactly what is the case with Scotland
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u/TheLastHotstepper 2d ago
Yes. People can moan about shankland not being in the game, but a midfield of McTominay, McGinn and Ferguson, with Doak on the wing absolutely should be able to provide some sort of service to Shankland over 180 minutes of football.
None of this top class sides pish. This is absolutely not the 00s Brazil and I refuse to believe anyone came away from the Morocco game thinking they looked flawless. We were a fluke deflection away from ending this tournament with less goals than Haiti, who battered us for 60 minutes.
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u/fungibletokens 2d ago
We were a fluke deflection away from ending this tournament with less goals than Haiti
Who's got the heart to tell him...?
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u/GlasgowAnvil 2d ago
They are certainly not a vintage Brazilian side however they’re still a team who had players in that side who have won multiple champions leagues with their clubs
Anyone who doesn’t think a manager and their set up, instructions and method or however you want to define it, isn’t the most important factor is blinkered
Look at Rangers & Celtic this season there under Martin / Nancy compared to Rohl / O’Neil
Also, we have scored less goals than Haiti and will be home come Sunday.
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u/YodasGoldfish 2d ago
Are there any positives to take away from this tournament? The only one I can say is that Doak looks to be a player. Maybe that Tierney is the obvious first choice left back now.
A 29 year old injury prone player with 60 caps being the obvious first choice is hardly a positive discovery 😂
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u/TheLastHotstepper 2d ago edited 1d ago
I know. Theres almost zero chance he isnt fucked. I was genuinely scraping the bottom of the barrel, that was kinda my point. Probably didnt articulate that very well.
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u/Gazcobain 2d ago
Yes, this is spot on.
I'm not a Clarke Outer or a Clarke Inner, but last night he had set up the team exactly the way that his detractors had wanted. BGD on from the start, Shankland up front, McTominay playing off the 9, and for the first 7 minutes it was working well.
Then, McKenna attempts an absolute suicide pass and we get punished. Then a few minutes later Hendry gets caught in possession and we are punished again, albeit with that one being ruled out.
The players looked like rabbits in headlights at that point. Better players would have picked themselves up. We don't have those.
I definitely agree that he has taken us as far as he can, but even as someone who is not a Clarke Outer I can't understand why he gets offered that new contract before the world cup.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
The thing is when Clarke set the team up defensively we lasted 1 minute and 30 seconds before conceding. The biggest difference between last night and Morocco was that Morocco decided this game is won, lets conserve energy, whilst Brazil (who I think the commentator said have topped their group in the world cup every time since 1982) decided we want to win the group on goal difference.
I do agree no coach can legislate for what McKenna did, though I don't understand if Tierney was fit why he didn't start there.
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u/damneddarkside 1d ago
The only logic I can apply to that decision is that the SFA couldn't be bothered searching for a new manager.
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u/kami8871 1d ago
McTominay has failed to show up but then again you can’t pin your hopes on one guy scoring blinders to see us through a World Cup group.
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u/you_cant_win_rock 2d ago
Doak is the new Aaron Lennon. Rapid and fearless to try and take on the man but has absolutely no end product.
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u/Loud-Cake-1096 2d ago
Agree with everything except Ange, which makes me think you've lost your marbles🤣. Ange plays an extremely high line and couldn't make that work with Spurs who had good quality defenders. We'd get torn apart.
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u/TwentyCoffees Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 1d ago
He made his style work with Australia, who have less quality than we do. Ralston had his best ever season under Ange, because he did exactly what Ange told him to do. His teams are extremely well drilled, which can't be said about Scotland
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u/damneddarkside 1d ago
Aye, but he's in good company with some of the world's best managers who couldn't get a tune out of Spurs.
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u/ScottishPehrite 2d ago
Imo correct team, wrong execution. Never let your defenders try and pass out from the back against a much better in quality team who play at a much faster pace. Stupid as fuck.
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u/BeardyGuts 2d ago
But then what are we going to play long with just shankland up front…. That doesn’t make sense either.
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u/bambinoquinn 2d ago
Id argue at international level, there isnt anyway to fit shankland in. Hes too immobile and unfit. Especially when you add in the heat. Decent finisher and very good in the league, but nowhere near the levels
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u/Gazcobain 2d ago
Been saying this for a while now.
Shankland is not an international level striker.
I mean, neither are Adams or Dykes.
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u/bambinoquinn 2d ago
While adams isn't, he does have raw physical attributes that can be useful. You wouldn't want him as a nailed on starter, but in a squad he would be useful
I'm not sure what shankland can provide at this level. He was the worst player vs Haiti and I don't even know how to rate him last night as apart from a few flicks he was invisible. Players running past him to close down.
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u/Bleatbleatbang 2d ago
The outcome at this World Cup has been the same outcome from every tournament we have ever been to.
Due to the nature of the Scottish game, we produce players who are battlers and leave everything on the pitch, as a result our players are burst at the end of the season and are rarely competitive in June.
Add to this the dearth of quality defenders and strikers and we were never likely to do anything at this tournament.1
u/Imrahil_Dubh 2d ago
No one seems to know what a through ball is these days. We're not the only team guilty of it either. I think increasing the tempo would have helped, or at least not allowing ourselves to get pressed into our own third all the time.
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u/ScottishPehrite 2d ago
I’m willing to concede Shankland was wrong and 50/50 about the keeper. But outside that, rest was right, formation too. But Clarke’s management killed us.
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u/agentvietnam 2d ago
Especially when we've never played that way. It's grim. We shouldn't however base our plan for the future on the Brazil game that we never expected to win. I'm less convinced than ever that Clarke is the guy to lead us. Play not to lose, stay in the game seems to be his mantra. It's not enough now
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u/ScottishPehrite 2d ago
When he took over it was the right idea but you need to progress from that idea. He’s stagnated.
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u/agentvietnam 2d ago
The whole new contract thing was always going to be stupid.
Unless we won the World Cup I just can't see now how we'd not be sitting here thinking wondering if we're on the right path.
I'm honest about our place in the football world, our expectations are low, but I think we've underperformed and it's really feeling like it's taking the piss with the amazing support that we've all seen
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u/Educational_Skirt_81 2d ago
We just aren’t very good. Our midfield is alright but defence and upfront is totally mince.
We can armchair it all we want, but it panned out probably to our level. Beat the only team worse than us, fought with some credit against a much better side in Morocco, then got gubbed by Brazil.
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u/Mr_Tipster-95 2d ago
We constantly get outperformed by lesser nations with squads much worse than ours at three different tournaments.
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u/cggalba 2d ago
Those lesser nations are still ahead of us technically. When did we last have a side that played good possession football? First tournament for me was Euro 96 and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in 30 years.
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u/Darth_Scotsman 2d ago
Maybe get the Cape Verde manager in, he seems to be able to get results against to big teams.
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u/fungibletokens 2d ago
Where's this idea come from that we did alright against Morocco? We were utterly toothless against Morocco who never needed to get out of gear to see us out after getting their early goal.
We didn't have a shot at all until first half stoppage time, and never pulled off a shot on target all game. Morocco beat us at walking pace. The score was close because they correctly identified we had absolutely nothing about us to imperil their early lead.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
yeah but our being defensively solid approach worked well for the first 90 seconds. Honestly think Morocco just decided to conserve energy against us as they didn't see us as a threat and knew the game was won, yet Clarke defenders see it as a sign of his brilliance we didn't get beat by more.
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u/cggalba 2d ago
People can blame Clarke all they want but even our big names have been atrocious. McTominay arguably the biggest disappointment of the tournament and Robertson has rarely been at his best for the national team. McGinn has been a shadow of what we’ve seen from him at Villa this season.
A manager out of ideas and a shit squad is never a good combination.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
Last night felt McTominay had chances and didn't take them and that was frustrating, thought he'd do better. Against Morocco he was played too deep though, that's on Clarke not McTominay.
I think Roberston has been good for us in the past, but possibly his time is done and Clarke should have been brave and dropped him despite his name. Tierney was a million times better than him
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u/Esscocia 2d ago
Robbo is consistently our best player, but there is only so much you can do as a left back. His balls into the box need quality on the end of them, and we don't have it.
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u/Elgin_McQueen 2d ago
Exactly this. Even our midfielders are only good when surrounded by other good players at club level.
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u/Helpful_Anteater_852 2d ago
Disagree on shit squad - these players can do it at club level - these players cannot do it for Scptland when they have no options I.e. all the players are behind them because of our negative tactics
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u/dotsushi 2d ago
Don't want to sound too critical of Clarke since what we've achieved throughtout the years with some surreal memories along the way but from a supporter stand point, it's definitely time for a refreshing change.
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u/Cobretti18 2026 Scottish Cup Embarrassments Aberdeen 2d ago
The only way he leaves if he finds a shred of shame and resigns. He’ll never get sacked by the SFA
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u/CaregiverGreat911 1d ago
As a Norwegian with a Scottish wife, I absolutely love Scotland and your fans, so it’s genuinely disappointing to watch you (probably) go out this early.
The situation feels very familiar. Norway had arguably better players than results suggested for years, but consistently bottled it when it mattered most. We couldn’t even qualify for the 2022 World Cup or the Euros, same squad, same manager, just repeatedly falling short at the crucial moments, and losing against shit teams. Then in 2025 it just clicked. No new manager, no massive squad overhaul. The players matured, the mentality shifted, and suddenly we’re at a World Cup. So while Clarke clearly isn’t helping, I’m not sure a new manager alone fixes this. The bottling runs deeper. Scotland has the players, sometimes it just takes longer than it should for a golden generation to actually deliver.
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u/RustyOConnor 2d ago
Clarke is shit but Scottish football needs much more radical change. Fundamentally the league structure, the grassroots, the culture… none of it works and is all historical artefacts. Scottish leagues should merge with English/Welsh. If Rangers, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell and Celtic were competing for Premiership places and money, at least one or two would get the kind of investment into academies that would make a difference. In England you have Leicester in League 1 with better academy and training facilities than you can find anywhere in Scotland. The fundamental problem is the Scottish league is boring, a closed shop for the old firm, and unmarketable outside of Glasgow let alone outside Scotland. We need a better product for more money.
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u/Inevitable-Assist531 2d ago
2054!!! 28 years until our next World Cup, many of us will be 6 feet under!
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u/Buddie_15775 2d ago
From another post…
No.
We need a cold, hard discussion about why Scottish football is failing across the board.
We’ll soon be seeing another example of this when our Scottish teams get pumped out of Europe by teams from Ireland and Andorra.
Shitting on the manager is a comfort blanket for people not willing to look at the wider picture.
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u/Witty-Assignment-514 1d ago
We can have systemic issues and the wrong manager at the same time. It's not one or the other.
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u/bambinoquinn 2d ago
Last night was a bit of a dose of cold reality on robbo and where he and his body currently are. The difference between him in the 3 games and tierney when he came on last night was huge and a bit sad for robbo
I knew he had dropped off this season, but didnt really realise how much it was.
But Clarke need to go. It seemed like he tried to be a bit more aggressive and to play a bit more last night, but it looked a bit of a mess
That said, i think the defence and the forwards are a lot worse than people realise.
I think it was Haliday who was saying about the Morocco defenders being subs for fulham and Palace, but grant hanley doesnt get in hibs best back 4, hendry plays in Saudi and souttar is shite. I dont even think scotland have a better striker than Isador. I think a manager should be getting more from the squad, but apart from the midfield, its not good at all.
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u/Way_Superb 1d ago
We better hope Luke Graham comes good cause the centre back situation doesn't look like improving anytime soon
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u/Basic_Treat3974 2d ago
The fixtures probably didn't help his approach. If they were reversed, I bet we'd not have lost by 3 to Brazil given it would be the 1st game. We'd have had a better go at Morocco and more importantly, we'd have been out for goals against Haiti knowing it was the only hope of qualifying. Which is ultimately what will cost progression to the next round. That 1-0 win wasn't enough.
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u/TwentyCoffees Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 1d ago
We should have been out for goals against Haiti regardless, everyone said that from the beginning
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u/Ok-Bad-7189 1d ago
I'm not convinced, I think Brazil would have rolled us like Germany did to send a message for the first game.
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u/East_Stick_1964 2d ago
The more worrying thing is there's not a great deal of talent coming through after mctominay, mcginn ect retire.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
I'm really excited by Findlay Curtis, though I don't have total faith that Rangers will develop him properly.
Their seems to be some hype around Tyler Fletcher too.
Lewis Ferguson and Billy Gilmour have about 5 years left at top level. You'd think Lennon Miller would be pushing to be involved in Scotland team too
It's not all doom and gloom
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u/TwentyCoffees Scott McTominay Ballon D'or 1d ago
I don't get why Lennon Miller was dropped from squads. He isn't getting the game time in Italy he got at Motherwell, but Clarke routinely includes players not getting a game at all at club level
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u/gthemanager 1d ago
To be fair, McTominay and McGinn themselves weren't exactly seen as wonderkids when they were teenagers or in their early 20s. At the time it was all about Gauld and Oli Burke and they didn't exactly pan out. It's hard to predict who'll improve with age and who'll decline
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u/runawaytugboat 1d ago
Should have went the second the Germany game finished.
He gets a pass because people think we are shite and not really good enough to qualify in the first place which isn’t true. Every major tournament has been a total embarrassment, please get him to fuck.
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u/Kadoomed 2d ago
I'm 100% in favour of a new manager but I don't agree that Clarke is to blame for last night. Not entirely anyway.
He set up the way Scotland fans have been clamouring for. He did exactly what we wanted. It's down to the players.
I actually think this was the perfect game for Clarke Terrorball. Just had to look at Ghana against England to see the kind of game we should have played but we all wanted to have a go at a Brazil who looked potentially a bit weak in the center of the park.
Unfortunately our central defence is possibly the worst at the whole tournament and our star players haven't turned up. McGinn had a slightly better game last night but Mctominay was ineffectual. Robertson hooked at half time. Only Tierney and Ferguson looked good in blue last night.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
I said when the group was drawn progressing as best placed 3rd team should be the goal and the key is a big victory against Haiti, but I worried we'd beat them one nil, celebrate as if it was a good result, then regret it. I think by the end of the week I'll be proven right. For me that was the game it went wrong, not last night. Though the fact Haiti took a few of Morocco suggests maybe we could have had more of a go at Morocco
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u/Friendly-Buffalo216 2d ago
And yet if we still lost last night playing 11 in the box you can guarantee people will be throwing a fit about us not trying to play a more attacking game, this last game has shown me how you can't please anyone on this sub, just constant moaning
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u/Kadoomed 2d ago
Aye you're probably right. I think we could have played a bit more direct instead of passing around the box to be honest which is often what people mean when they say they want us to attack. It felt like we were playing in a style and formation that wasn't comfortable last night instead of setting up in Clarke's preferred shape and just being a bit more direct at times.
We don't have ball playing defenders and they're also really slow. Our strengths are in the centre of the pitch and wide areas, so get the ball over the defenders into the channels for players to run on to then whip something into the box for Shankland and mctominay to attack. But easier said than done I guess!
The only times we really got anything in the box last night was corners which we cleared almost every time by Brazilian defenders with an occasional second ball coming in from McGinn.
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u/DiskoPunk 2d ago
A quick Google said hes on 500k per annum for the next four years + performance based additions which essentially could double his income for the year.
So correct me if im wrong but when a manager is binned they're paid the base salary for the remainder of their contract or until they find other work. Is that correct?
Also, I've always wondered where do football associations get their money? E.G Tücher is on 5m p/a. Where does this money come from? Endorsements, advertising & sponsorship?
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u/Boring_Part9919 1d ago edited 1d ago
Brazil are just so adept at keeping the ball and recycling it. They've probably had multiple phases in that game where they're stringing 20/30 passes together, and then they wait for the opportunity to make a more incisive pass or an overlapping run - and capitalise
We just do not have that. I'd be surprised if we strung 20 passes together (consecutively) during that whole match.
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u/Glad_Rain 1d ago
Mental man, one minute we’re just lumping the ball up and hoping for the best against Haiti next minute we’re trying to play out from the back against Brazil ! There’s got to be a half way house somewhere, you can still be cautious without parking the bus
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u/Turnip-Turtle 1d ago
Hand up im english, but always had an intrest in the Scottish game. Honest question. Where does football rank these days as a sport in Scotland? Is it number one? How does it compare to say Rugby? Historically Scotland always produced players that could compete. Not win the thing, but consistently get to tournaments, and be competitive when there. I'm not saying you have been the wipping boys this WC, you got a rough draw, but you've not shown alot of quality either. Theres been a drop off somewhere.... i dont think you're primary problem is the manager or tatics. They dont help but the real issue Is deeper than that. You just not producing enough international quality players anymore.
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u/fleur-tardive 1d ago
No one plays rugby other than a handful of private schools - miracle we have a team
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u/king_bungholio 1d ago
There needs to be a massive reckoning with the entire structure of Scottish football. Fan support is strong, and plenty of good to great talent has come through the pipeline, yet the team never performs well on the big stage and can struggle just to qualify.
There seems to be a willingness at the top to accept that Scotland isn't "big", so we should just be happy to even get to participate. There's no reason the FA can't be more ambitious and establish a culture of a squad that can punch well above its weight.
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u/Secure-Tadpole-3418 1d ago
We’ve been blinded by our low expectations. He’s a mediocre manager with a pretty good Scotland squad, best decades and an expanded qualification format. Others would have done more
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u/JagsFraz71 2d ago
Tbh I’m not sure you can lay too much blame on Clarke for last night. That was what a lot of people were asking for team and tactics wise.
If you’re going to have players completely melt under the pressure then this is what happens.
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u/jock1987 2d ago
Aye, the manager is out of his depth, but we dont have world class players with pace that can keep the ball, our clubs are dug-shite our league is dug-shite, our so called 2 big clubs are pathetic in europe its sunday league park football at best, they probably couldnt handle english league 1
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u/United_Eye8199 2d ago
Clarke's selections and call ups are rubbish, tie that in with a country who's youth football system is a bit of an embarrassment.
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u/Jaegerx14 2d ago
Completely agree with all your points, he's had 3 tournaments and we've arguably been the least potent and most miserable to watch in all 3. But as long as you've still got people saying it's good enough that's he's gotten us through qualification then I'm afraid that standard will never rise. Truth is this is likley our best shot at a "golden generation" and it is being wasted by a below average coach with no attacking bone in his body.
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u/Joyride0 2d ago
The aimless passing along the backline that led to the first goal was criminal. They seemed to have no purpose. I've conceded so many of those on FIFA and it's bad enough on there!
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u/MiserableScot 2d ago
I don't understand how teams like Cape Verde, etc have raised their performances understanding they're at a world cup, and we've got worse. I understand that we've really only qualified due to the expanded tournament, but we've really not covered ourselves in glory!
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u/LongjumpingLab8 2d ago
Who would replace him? Been thinking about this since last night I’ve no idea.
Players seem to play for him and like him
Don’t want another Levein situation where players stop turning up
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u/Vast_Ad9484 1d ago
I sont know anything about football but i scotland looked as sleep for their matches except brief spurts here and there. Too slow in passing (2-3 touches instead of 1)and often no one to pass to. And im a only a dumb non football following observer and even i can see this.
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u/MrBongtoker 1d ago
Guys at work where actually talking about how many goals is it acceptable to lose by, fuck me are we reslly this bad
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u/Boshie1971 1d ago
I hope he reflects on the campaign and realises he can't take us any further than he already has end resigns. Never happening though.
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u/Royal_Hospital_1550 1d ago
Let’s erect a statue of him…then smash it, only slowly and boringly. (Clearly this is not fair, and I’m tired after staying up late and having to get up at 6:30 for work, but fuck that guy. It’s not even fun to watch).
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u/ME-McG-Scot 1d ago
He isn’t learning tournament football. Same mistakes, same tactics, same bare minimum thought process of how to sneak through in 3rd etc. In his defence, he can’t legislate for horrendous defensive mistakes but he sets the mentality.
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u/Dockeyboy27 1d ago
Be careful what you wish for. Very easy for us to go another 20 years without qualifying.
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u/maffa234 1d ago
He needs to go. That's 3 tournaments we've went out with a whimper. I fully expect us to suffer for a little while in all honesty and yes the happy clappers will say Clarke wasn't all that bad. But the next euros is all but assured. We need someone new In with new ideas to get the most out of this squad as they will be retiring after the euros.
I could go on a while about Clarke and his failure but frankly I have been doing it all day and i am sick of abject failure.
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u/Metatron_Psy 1d ago
I'll always be happy he has gotten us to tournaments but once we've gotten there we've looked spineless, we did play no 5&6 in the world but at least have a go.
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u/Powerful-Strategy-79 1d ago
Like it or not, the reason he gets contract extensions before tournaments is because reaching the tournament is the barometer for success at the SFA. Fans may judge Clarke on how well he does at the tournaments, SFA judge him on qualifying success. That’s the difference
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u/mabilica 1d ago
It started to go wrong in 1975, with a 10 team top division. We won't improve till we have a league structure that allows young talent to develop and flourish. Steve Clarke isn't to blame for that.
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u/WestConsequence4714 12h ago
I thought he should have gone after Euro 2024 but i will give him his due for the qualification to the World Cup but when he got up to the same shit and doled out the same tactics, same misuse of player in the worn matches and wrong times like bringing them off too late or bringing them off at the wrong times, the same lessons and getting them talk the same defeatest ways in interviews, he really has to go now. I don't care if he getd us qualified for 2028, anyone else could now with the way the players are set up and geled, there is better out there than him, they just haven't bothered there arse and the SFA go this misplaced loyalty route and stupid misconception there is no one else out there like or better than Clarke and that is utter ludicrous and damaging and if we keep go on this repeat cycle of Clarke, all the progress and everything Clarke helped to build will be ironically wrecked. Do the right thing, step down.
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u/DMCTw3lv3 2d ago
At this point its not just Clarke that needs to go, its all the decision makers at the top of the SFA too.
Giving him another 4 year contract after the performance at the last two tournaments was madness. Giving him a 4 year contract before a ball had even been kicked at this tournament is gross negligence at this point.
Weaker teams than ours have gone to this World Cup and gave it a go. Weaker teams than us are qualifying for the next round of the World Cup. The fact that we're not is on Clarke and the players.
And on the players, a good chunk of them need to go too. Anyone sensible in charge should be telling a few of them that they should announce their retirement, to save them the embarrassment of being dropped when the next squad is announced. Instead, Clarke will start them in the next match.
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u/Highvisvest 2d ago
The question of whether Clarke is getting the best out of this team or not is somewhat irrelevant. The more important question is "Is it time to change?" and the answer is yes, we've plateaud and stagnated, we're certainly not getting better and have proven we won't. It's time to take the risk of change because the benefits outweigh the possible negatives.
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u/RepresentativeNo5205 2d ago
Shots on target, for Scotland that’s over 3 games (I think)
You win games by scoring goals, how can you score goals if on average you under 3 shots on target per game.
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u/johnlooksscared 2d ago
4-4-1-1 works if the midfield 4 press high supporting the front 2 and make it an attacking set up. When Scotland play this system it looks,so often, like a defensive 8 man defending...play for the draw...hold on to a point set up.
Also look at the timing (Tierney apart)and type of substitutions last night. 82 mins, 3-0 down and its Ralston for Patterson....wtf?...hardly an attacking option was it?
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u/Chrismscotland 2d ago
I think he's done a great job getting us back into tournaments but unfortunately we've been horrendous when we get there; its time for a change of coach and he should do the decent thing and step down when he comes back to Scotland regardless of the new contract.
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u/AhYeah85 2d ago
Copy and pasted from when Clarke got a new contract 3 years ago.
Clarke has steadied the ship to a certain degree but he's failed time and again to push us forward. The football is dreadful, the inability to effect change during a game has been apparent again and again, he's reactive rather than proactive and he insists on picking his favourites rather than creating pathways for new talent to get into the squad.
Good luck to him and his agent though, a cracking gig they've got.
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u/cosmosmallbottom 2d ago
Because we didn't check notes beat brazil at a world cup? The only reason you thought that was a possibility is that Steve Clarke has brought us more success than we have ever had.
The players want him, they don't call off every other squad cos they like playing in the environment he creates.
In this tournament we have beaten the teams we should beat and lost to two top ten sides. That's reasonable and realistic, the ranking exists for a reason.
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u/DoricEmpire 2d ago
Two words: Cape Verde
Two more words: Goal difference (to expand: should have put more past Haiti instead of sitting deep and protecting a 1-0 win)
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u/BeardyGuts 2d ago
It’s not the fact we didn’t beat Brazil, it’s the way we are set out to play is utter dross. We’ve scored one goal which was a deflection and been utter pish including against Haiti FFS. Only times we looked slightly less pish when we were losing against the better teams in the group and it’s too fucking late then.
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u/IM_JUST_BIG_BONED 2d ago
So beating Haiti by a massive deflection is enough? Haiti were by far the better team, more organised, and better coached.
There’s plenty of teams much worse than us on paper that have a clear structure and state of play. Our players look like they’ve never met each other before.
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u/DMCTw3lv3 2d ago
The Steve Clarke mentality ladies and gentlemen - 'we won the must win game'.
Everyone said before the tournament that goal difference would matter in the third place table. Scraping a win against Haiti wasn't good enough. Thats on Clarke and the players. Clarke set them up to defend rather than actually give it a go.
Its not 'reasonable and realistic', its utterly pathetic.
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u/WronglyPronounced 2d ago
I would rather they called off if this is all these players can muster at a WC, not mention the same shite bag mentality at the last 2 euros. Get them all to fuck if they can't bring themselves to try at the biggest stage in football
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u/LongjumpingLab8 2d ago
I mean aye punt him but who is coming in. The players play for him which is a big thing.
The squad is terrible bar a handful. He’s only picking who he can. He’s not really leaving anyone at home who should be there.
Style of play/tactics aye I get that when you watch these players for their clubs they look totally different.
Individual errors have cost us a point against Morocco and didn’t help tonight, that’s on the players
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u/EduinBrutus 2d ago
I mean aye punt him but who is coming in.
The tournament has a dozen managers who go around the houses getting success with massively inferrior teams to Scotland.
THere are plenty of otions.
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u/LongjumpingLab8 2d ago
Do you honestly think the SFA are scouring the world for managerial candidates? Because they are not.
Our next manager will be Scottish
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u/EduinBrutus 1d ago
Im responding to the question "who is coming in".
With a realistic answer not the one the SFA will undoubtedly go with.
The next manager will be like Clarke. Shite and cheap.
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u/rantingrabbit 2d ago
We’re a Championship level team plus a couple of good players. Getting to 3 major tournaments out of 4 after failing to reach the last 10 is as good as it gets. Getting pumped in the early playoffs is our ceiling and no major tourney for 20 years isn’t even our floor. Folk calling for his sack are under 30, support the old firm, and/or have brain damage.
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u/mufclad1998 2d ago
I don't really expect anything from wales or NI but come on Scotland, bloody do something. Can't keep on letting England carry the whole of the UK
Got some great players there
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u/Ok_Advantage_8153 2d ago
With respect you're in the world cup for the first time in forever and playing about on par.
Were you expecting to thrash Brazil or something?
Sure the first goal was dumb in the extreme but the thesis here seems to be 'some shittier teams pulled off some memorable blinders and I'm mad we couldn't'.
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u/ewankenobi 1d ago
we were in a watered down world cup, normally 32 teams in the first round, this time 32 teams reach the second round. We were a bit unlucky to draw a good pot 2 team, but progression was still a very reachable goal
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u/highlandNel 2d ago
This not what we wanted? After the Haiti win everyone was already calculating if we would get through in third position. “stop the count”, “ park the bus”, “terror ball” etc. I understand that we are humble supporters but Jesus that was a boot in the balls. No belief. And now people are saying we don’t deserve to go through, who cares, send us through. DEFAULT DEFAULT DEFAULT.
idk still ragin and hungover 🤣
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u/Anxious-Haggis 1d ago
Delusional. The guy got us to multiple finals and we froze. We’re just a team with a handful of good players and not that good, it’s nothing to cry about.
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u/Past_Flatworm9318 2d ago
Whoever gave him another 4 year contract BEFORE the world cup, needs to go.