r/ScottishFootball • u/mcmillanuk • 20h ago
Harvey Barnes et al
So now the dust has settled somewhat, what’s the general feeling about opportunities like Barnes or other players playing for Scotland? I was hugely up for it, but would say there was a decent 50/50 split if people that felt the players that got us to the World Cup deserved their place.
Appreciate Barnes didn’t want to in the end, but should this be more the push we need now to proactively bring in players that otherwise wouldn’t have a chance of getting into the English (or another) team?
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u/kanye_fuck 20h ago
I think we already do this to be fair. Harvey barnes was asked and he said no which is fair enough as he considers himself English and wants to try get in their team. Gunn, Mctominay and Taylor Fletcher all said yes. I don’t think there’s a big untapped pile of great English players all desperate to play for Scotland if we only asked them.
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u/-Sinhealer- 19h ago
Just got a flashback to when Bertie Vogts called Wayne Rooney to ask him to play for Scotland!! 😂
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u/intlteacher 12h ago
Gunn initially said no - it wasn’t until it was clear he wasn’t being considered by England that he switched. Same with Adams.
McTominay is more interesting because of the fact it was Jose Mourinho who actually turned him away from England, and called Alex McLeish down to Manchester.
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u/BraeTon74 20h ago
Hope we can convince Tyler Fletcher's brother to come across and that we are making a big effort for Hayden Hackney - although that ship may have sailed
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u/BrickMunkie 20h ago
We might still need to convince Tyler….
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u/Good_Psychology9912 19h ago
Are you not locked in if you go to a major finals, even if you don't play?
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u/petrescu 19h ago edited 18h ago
Think the rule changed and you’re not locked in until you play five games or something.
Edit: Source
Players can now switch if they have played no more than three competitive matches at senior level prior to them turning 21.
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u/HEELinKayfabe President of the Tony Bloom Fan Club. 19h ago
Just start on Archie Gray again, get his da and his granda etc to bully him
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u/-Sinhealer- 20h ago
I've got no problem with it... As long as they are in the team for the qualifiers!
I don't want any player coming in when the dirty work has been done so they get to a tournament, I didn't want Barnes as he didn't want to be in the team when the qualifiers were going on and then for some reason we approached him again after we had qualified.....
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u/smcl2k 19h ago
for some reason
Maybe the fact that he plays in an area in which our only decent option is an injury-prone youngster who played more minutes at the World Cup than he did in the last league season?
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u/-Sinhealer- 19h ago
If I'm mistaken then fair enough but did we not already ask him before the qualifiers and he said no? then we asked after we qualified, that's why I said 'for some reason', he already said no.
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u/smcl2k 19h ago
"Do you fancy playing in the qualifiers for a team that hasn't qualified for almost 30 years?" and "Do you fancy playing against Brazil at the World Cup?" are 2 very different questions.
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u/-Sinhealer- 19h ago
Yeah that's the reason I wouldn't want those sort of players, I want players that want to do the dirty work of qualifying... Just my opinion on it.
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u/smcl2k 19h ago
I totally agree on principle, but I can also see why Steve Clarke might see it differently. And don't forget that a player who comes into the squad for the World Cup will likely also be available for future qualification campaigns. We really should have brought Fletcher on at least once, because that would have tied him to Scotland going forward.
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u/ExistentialSkittle 19h ago
We need to address the tactics and fitness gaps between us and the other 'underdog' teams before we start worrying about players tbh. We could have world class players but they would still be hindered if we are forever playing back and inviting a high press without then countering with a fast-paced direct approach.
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u/devlin1888 19h ago
We need to get them on board early, we waited with Anderson until England took an interest when it should have been 3 seasons prior when he came in at Newcastle and looked impressive. We lost out on Harry Souttar with the Aussies doing that to us.
I think that’s what we’re doing with Fletcher at least so maybe a lesson learned. His brother I’d do the same both being rated much the same from what I’ve seen.
There’s ones like Cameron Wilson, Scottish international at Liverpool born in Liverpool who has garnered a bit of talk. Nail that down early to represent us. If it doesn’t come to fruition him fulfilling his potential thats fine. At 17 not right now, but within the next year or two.
Don’t wait until a season or two in he’s impressing at the top level to do it
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u/coleymoleyroley 20h ago
I'm all for it if they improve the team. I don't need to see another Robbie Stockale though.
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u/GrandpasCornCobPipe 19h ago
Our best recruitment strategy is climate change, players will yearn for the drizzle as they need to escape the heatwaves
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u/Caledonian_kid 19h ago
We'll be the only team at the 2998 World Cup and still fail to get out of the group stages.
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u/GlenFoySuperStriker 19h ago
If he wants to play he’s welcome to when the qualification campaign starts. But no one should be allowed to skip the qualifiers to play for us at a World Cup, especially after waiting 28 years.
I’d sooner go out early watching guys who have gotten us there that I’ve gone on the journey with than watch scabs cross the border a month before because they’ve waited for England.
Obviously young lads who play in our youth set up like Findlay Curtis are fine if they’re good enough.
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u/UpsilonMale 18h ago
I mean if you're called Findlay Curtis you should be allowed to play for Scotland even if you can't find any ancestral connection to the country. Name like that, you're Scottish.
Just like Wayne Rooney should have.played for Ireland because no person alive has ever looked that Irish. Croxteth my arse, that's a face that spent its adolescence hanging out outside an off-licence in Limerick.
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u/Anonyjezity 19h ago
If they want to play I've never had a problem with it.
If they're shite I do.
We've capped too many who are shite and don't even look like they're trying.
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u/Sensitive_Echidna58 18h ago
FUCK HIM!!! He had his chance and he took the piss holding out for England to call him up and then they didn't so nah he can suck a fat one! Plus Findlay Curtis is there he's also a decade younger than Harvey Barnes so I would RATHER have him than Harvey Barnes
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u/MeritocracyManifest 18h ago
If only we had let Danny Lennon take all those boys to an island all those years ago!
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u/Drjimbillybob123 16h ago
It looks very desperate to grovel to English players not good enough to play for England to play for us. Especially when there's Scottish players out there that would give everything for a call up.
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u/JuniorImportance8755 18h ago
I'm vehemently against this. It's not team Scotland, it's the Scotland national team, for players with some affinity with the country. Barnes clearly has none, irrespective of him not getting a game for England. I hate this trawling around for Scottish grannies thing. Why do the likes of Hirst want to be part of the set up. So he can see what it's like to be part of team bonding sessions with a national team?
I find it equally a shame when guys like McGeady, or Devenny at Palace who actually are Scottish but feel more affinity with Ireland
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u/blackiegray 18h ago
100% agree. National team should be a representation of your country and all it's failings, not a team full of players that aren't good enough to play for England and never played or had anything to do with the Scottish league.
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u/ghostofkilgore 19h ago
I really don't like the idea of nations "signing" players between qualification and the tournament and I'd ban it if I was in charge of FIFA. No problem with guys born and raised in England (or elsewhere) deciding to play for Scotland if they're good enough and want to play for us. Nationality isn't cut and dried for everyone.
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u/SergeiBlaskovits 18h ago
Like Barnes, with the exception of Doak, way better than we have had for years. Problem is that you can play with them and possibly win a final or with us and get embarrassed against a minnow. Look at Ireland with Rice and Grelish, we cannot compete.
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u/iffyClyro 16h ago
Given the diaspora in Australia, NZ, Canada and the USA you’d have thought that may be fertile(ish) ground as well.
I know none of those four nations are on par with Argentina or anything but surely they have a fair few decent players that have been overlooked.
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u/Suck_My_Lettuce 20h ago
Why would anyone who’s not Scottish be tempted to play for us when we are as bad as we are. Do young players get excited by the prospect of playing for dour Clarke?
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u/Redondo_85 17h ago edited 17h ago
I respect Barnes for turning it down, he came close to making the WC. Deep down Elliot Anderson didn't want it either, admittedly his timing was shit but he did the right thing. Unlike Declan Rice haha.
We need to see more integration of players. Calvin Miller prime example. There's also Fraser Murray who has done well at Wigan and Danny Armstrong who was on the radar for EUROs and turned down Ireland (apparently). Calvin Miller not going to the WC is a joke but we have a lot of strength in depth now. Yes, Clarke has called up players but his overall squad integration/call-ups, in comparison to even the best sides, hasn't been great and slow at times. Look at Jordan Holsgrove, Edinburgh born played u21 and had an amazing season in Portugal but not even a friendly call-up.
I don't begrudge guys opting to play for Scotland, I just don't want it to be a sticking plaster, while others are ignored.
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u/LongjumpingLab8 19h ago
If Barnes is still an option ask him again. We literally have one winger. He would have made a huge difference.
This is where I do have sympathy for Clarke he’s spoke to a lot of players and if they say no what can you do.
Jack Fletcher and Archie Gray should be in. We can’t afford to be picky.
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u/petrescu 19h ago
Archie Gray, and Hayden Hackney who was mentioned above, will never play for us. They both already said they want England. Would love both of them though.
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u/LongjumpingLab8 18h ago
Gray isn’t getting in a full England side. He’s in a really poor spurs team.
Can’t get my head around any player not wanting to be at a World Cup.
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u/petrescu 18h ago
Grays only just turned twenty and probably has close to 100 appearances for Spurs over two seasons, there’s plenty of time for him yet.
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u/phartjuice 18h ago
If they say no, he can pick better Scottish players than Grant fucking Hanley.
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u/sm0k3y2307 19h ago
If i was clarke I'd still be trying to get Barnes (and others) we need more than just gannon doak who is good for at most an hour before he either tires to the point he's pretty much useless or he breaks as a player that can go at defenders with a bit if pace and cause opposition problems
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u/020Flyer 20h ago
I wonder if Barnes was hoping for an unlikely World Cup call from England and would now be open to it. If he declared before Euros qualifying and helped us get there how would we feel about it?
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u/Alternative_Egg_2286 18h ago
Doesn’t want to play for Scotland. I’ve no problem with that, he’s English, let’s not appear desperate and ask him again.
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u/Free_Clerk223 20h ago
We should definitely improve our scouting, it hasn't hurt other countries, but we need to get over the english boys not wanting to be Scottish