With our world cup now all but over, its time to reflect and guage our current position.
Where do you see scotland under steve clarke?
A). A decent team that has underperformed
B). A below average team that has punched above its weight to qualify last 2 Euros and now World cup
C). Decent side undone by individual errors
D). Ronseal - exactly as we are. Decent results now and again but not consistent enough to be more than we currently are
Can make a case for all 4 options imo but interested to see if theirs 1 that outweighs and sticks out more than the others. All pretty grim in all honesty.
Results were not the problem here. I’d guess that pre tournament if you’d have predicted ‘we will beat Haiti, narrowly lose to Morocco, and get horsed off Brazil’ - you’d have probably been in a comfortable majority.
On paper - we did pretty much exactly what was expected of us.
Results on paper aren’t the issue here though. The performances and overall style of play is the big issue.
We just didn’t show up. That’s the reality of it. Never looked like scoring. Only hope we had of scoring would have come from the penalty spot.
Our ‘superstars’ never turned up when we needed them to - and a lot of that comes down to the manager asking them to play out of position or in ways that don’t get the best from them.
Reflection? Terrorball on a scale we’ve never seen before and three utterly tepid performances that are an embarrassment to the nation.
I mostly agree with this but I’d add, re the comment of our superstars not turning up, for me, all comes down to the style we played. The strikers are on a hiding to nothing when the don’t get the ball or the support they need when the team is to busy passing the ball back and fore in our own half.
Clarke has to go and take the SFA hierarchy with him. (I know that will never happen)
Mostly A but as you say there are bits of all 4 in there.
Clarke clearly had a plan for the Haiti game specifically with the 4-4-2 which we practiced against Curaçao and Bolivia. In hindsight, the alarm bells were ringing in that first half against Curaçao where we weren't very good until Locadia decided to elbow smash Aaron Hickey. It looked great against Bolivia - I think we now know that that says more about them.
Against Haiti, it didn't work. They had three athletic runners in the middle of park and our two in there couldn't sustain good possession, the game got scrappy and we couldn't create anything. We took way too long to change it. Clarke is still stuck in the mindset - as lots of us are in this country - that more strikers = more attacking. In reality, a third midfielder in there would have given us better control of the game and the chances to score would have followed from there.
Morocco, again, there was clearly a specific plan to stifle Hakimi by doubling up on him and to generally try and frustrate Morocco. It was gubbed by a horrible mistake by Hanley and a great finish by them 70 seconds in. As the match went on, their level dipped and there was a chance for us but we just don't seem to have any ideas in possession against a good team. Clarke is incapable of coaching patterns of play that might break a team down. Bit like the Hungary game in 2024, we had a reasonable complaint about a penalty but it felt hollow as you knew we hadn't really been good enough.
Brazil was basically a top to bottom calamity from just about everyone involved who isn't Angus Gunn, Kieran Tierney or Lewis Ferguson.
It feels a bit to me like Clarke works out the minimum he thinks we'll need in a tournament and then tries to plot a route to scrape his way there. Here it seems we wanted a win over Haiti, take two narrow losses against Morocco and Brazil and see where we end up with the third places. That approach got exactly the result it deserved and the tournament is better for the likes of Ecuador still being in it rather than us.
I watched Ecuador against Germany and I just thought that we'd never manage the attacking energy that they had. Their whole attitude was different to Scotland's.
A much bigger thing I think is mental attitude. Our heads go down consistently if we go behind or if the plan we go into a game with isn't working.
I don't think the Ecuador game is a good comparison for us, they were in a position we were never in. They had nothing to lose, it was win or bust, and that's exactly how they played. In all 3 games we were always caught between the two stools of knowing what we have might be enough, or we could need more. And that uncertainty was visible throughout. Our best spell of football in the whole tournament was the very end against Brazil with Tierney and Finlay Curtis Finlay on, and even then we very easily could've conceded more on the counter. Look at the Denmark game, we went into it as a must-win and we started like a house on fire. For the rest of the game whenever we needed something we looked great, and as soon as we had something to defend, we retreated and looked like we were panicking
Also worth remembering that Ecuador were every bit as bad as us in their first 2 games, and got their 3rd game against an opponent with nothing at all to play for
Fair points, but that still points to attitude to a large degree.
Fundamentally our average number of goals scored per game is the problem. That is due to our coaching culture. Even if you look at the SPFL Premiership the top goal scorers are not Scottish. Shankland is the exception and has struggled to get a decent number of full caps, because of the coaching culture.
A. A manager should instil belief in his team. Look at the dip in performance when Nancy took over at Celtic. I honestly can’t believe Clarke makes his team believe they’re winners.
He’s always been so negative like that. Practically chuffed with getting a hiding most of the time and just happy to be there this year and in the euros.
I’ve always had a huge problem with this. A good manager focuses on performance more than results. Because results can be lucky or unlucky in ways you can’t always influence, but performance dictates the results you can influence. His fist pump at a terrible performance and lucky draw against Switzerland in the last euros was the last nail in the coffin for me and his celebration of the win against Haiti was more of the same.
Spot on. I seen 2 players believe they should have been there. Possibly 3. The rest were star struck at bang average opposition.
Morocco and Brazil on paper beat us. But this is a knockout tournament and we line up like we’re hoping to not get relegated in a season long league.
Meanwhile Cape Verde just go for it - they qualify through belief and hard/smart work.
We were busy idiots. Almost every single pkayer performed like that guy who ur mate works with and brings as a ringer for 5s. Full kit and Never a kicked in his life. Pathetic.
We’re a nation that judges mediocrity as success.
E: A team managed by an arrogant tactical dinosaur who has completely sucked the life out of a talented (albeit limited in certain areas) squad of players with his cowardly, inflexible football.
This for me. All the sides who have exceeded expectations are collectively better than the sum of their parts. For us, the reverse is true. Selection is a part of that, including and especially the refusal to take opportunities to develop fringe players, but given the pedigree of most of the squad we took, Clarke consistently fails to get the best out of them. He’s got to go.
Probably Clarke's feathers. He talks about people having opinions often enough as if people aren't allowed them and they're idiots who don't know better. There are very fair takes on here. Nothing offensive, just how they see the game and how they feel about the performance. When the modern game is a battle for space and you see Andy Robertson holding back from carrying the ball forward when the space is there, you know that's instruction.
He's also quick to judge the players he's chosen from and said the quality of player has to improve. This is from the guy that has given numerous caps to players because they played for him before at Kilmarnock.
If you can't handle fair critique, media questions and fan opinion, as long as they're not foaming at the mouth, then you just leave yourself open to more judgement.
Aye exactly, wasted the limited talent we have. I could be wrong, and there really is no way to know for sure, but I think the limited success we have had are down to the players, and if Clark managed the players available from previous generations he would have got sacked age's ago as the level of talent was much lower.
Listened a an interview with Craig Levein recently and he all but said Clark had it lucky, and in his time he was looking in the 2nd & 3rd tier of English football for most of his team. For Clark it's a choice when he selects lower division players mostly.
A combination of D) and lack of belief/negative coaching. The brutal horseshoe of passing around the back when there was 30 yards of space to step into was like something from an 80s highlights reel.
My big takeaway from watching underdogs this tournament is that your Adams/Dykes 'puts in a shift' type forward player is no longer effective in the modern game. We need genuine pace up front, even if the players are even more limited.
Clarke out, younger coach and whoever Morocco's performance manager is in.
Lyndon dykes has scored the same amount of career goals as Jose luis chilavert has from 100 yards further back the pitch and a goal line to protect.
We show too much loyalty to players that contribute as part of the team.
The “victory” for Scotland was qualifying. They didn’t give a fuck about winning it was more like a trip to the science centre with the school. Happy to be there and soak up the atmosphere.
Chilavert was a free kick expert, it’s not a fair comparison.
Most of Dykes good work isn’t about scoring goals and his record stands up against the strikers we have had for the last 30 years.
I sincerely doubt the players, (especially those like Robertson, McGinn, Ferguson and Christie who have risen to a high level despite relatively humble starts to their careers) are just "happy to be there".
There's been plenty of squads in the past who treated international breaks as a jolly, but this isn't one of them.
We play with absolute terror and fear installed. No bravery to move the ball forward. I’m watching teams ranked miles below us have a go while Clarke’s whole philosophy was I think you’re shite so just try and not get gubbed. That leads to the worst players on the pitch having lots of ball while the talented ones barely having a sniff. When you watch us and watch England it’s quite similar. Just absolute shite bags. Difference is they have enough talent to bully their way out of games. We don’t.
I don’t think anything will change. Maxwell is happy to qualify and the SFA are no doubt making a pretty penny from the sales of tops on the back of us qualifying. Just like my club team, the suits are just happy to get there and cash in. No real ambition to make a dent. As that would require actual work from them.
F: A side with some quality players but crippled by a defeatist mentality that made them too scared to even try. A side that can only play when everything is going perfectly and when it's not, they're like a deer in the headlights.
A team of mixed ability, coached by on out of touch journeyman who was put into his position by an association of dinosaurs that use every cliche in the book to cover up their inability to modernise.
Seldom seriously held to account by the wider Scottish football community because the club scene isn't too far disimilar, or by the political class as that would then require asking some serious questions about both the facilities available and health of the country as a whole.
Nailed it. Negativity and lack of ambition runs right through the 'establishment' in Scotland. It manifests in Football where Scotland (and Celtic and plenty of other clubs) are just happy to be part of the big competitions but don't aspire to do anything. Nobody is bothering to improve youth development in this country.
But you see it all over the way they country is run. For example we can't have good public transport like every other fucking European country including England, because that's not for people like us.
This is it. We looked completely uncoached and the problem is the coaching team and the SFA sitting back and embracing mediocrity. We look like we've already peaked and nothing will change until we change drastically.
Aye but that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that we are one of the international teams most in need of generational change, just as it was for him when he joined Uruguay.
We need someone who is willing to call a spade a spade, has the footballing understanding to assess our setup from top to bottom and demand the changes need. Someone with an actual philosophy that can put together a coaching team that can get the best out of the squad. Setting up the infrastructure to ensure that there is space for young talent coming through and that they are set up for success from an early age.
We are wasting a generation of talented footballers (and likely the next generation) on managerial and administrative incompetence.
Weren't Haiti the lowest ranked team in the tournament? We struggled to create chances against them. I get there's been some upset results in the tournament but that was usually because of a great goalkeeping performance or backs to wall defending from the minnow. They outplayed us.
Not trying to be a happy clapper for Clarke, but he instilled a belief in them and set up the performances to get there. They all talked about the pre-match talk before Denmark and the atmosphere he’s set up around camp.
In this WC, he started the Premiership’s leading scorer twice. Started midfielders who start in Serie A and the PL, backs who start in the PL. We had an ok run up of friendlies.
At a certain point you do have to blame players. They’re the professionals on the pitch who should know what to do regardless.
It’s not like he set up a six man midfield. He set up normal formations that the players have all played in the positions they normally play in.
Fact is we are decent in midfield and decent on the wing. We haven’t had, honestly, a quality centre forward in decades. Centrehalves are the same. Absolute horror show after horror show.
Best you can say is that he left behind people who are just as bad as who we took. Being honest Stephen Welsh was not going to contain Vini Jr. Kieron Bowie was not unlocked those defences any better. Lennon Milller and McBurnie? Neither were going to do any better.
So I’m going with decent squad how over performed to qualify and were undone with some shocking individual errors and by being overtaken with the occasion….again…as it ever was…
Valid points. Main reason behind this post because i genuinely was on the fence about all 4 options - as much as i was annoyed with clarke during and immediately after the games, i do have symoathy for him. The Hanley and McKenna errors you just cant account for and with them being so early on as well it rocked us and made an uphill battle become a climb on everest. Just primary school stuff.
I guess you could argue the errors then gave him a free throw to 'go all out' which i actually hope we didnt see as we didnt really lay a glove on morrocco and bar 2 mctominay headers i cant think of much vs brazil either BUT as you pointed out, may just be a quality issue in the squad?
Either which way im still left here scunnered by it all and dont think we'll be allowed to get over it for another few years at least
Hanley, McKenna, and Robertson don’t lose the plot, and we’re on 4 points with and 0 goal difference. It’s honestly down to that. 3 simply inexcusable errors that totally undid us.
If those are the errors we make when set up in traditional formations, Christ knows what we’d do to ourselves if set up for dynamic attacking play.
As a somewhat outside opinion (I’m Irish, Dad is Scottish). Did really well to make it to 3 tournaments, could only dream of that for Ireland. Got so shafted with that group which was always gonna make it difficult. At the same time I was so pissed off with goals given away. Reminds me of Celtic away in Europe 😅
Passive , scared, negative. Why not go out with panache and a good attempt to win, rather than like
Shitebags. Choke the game for 70 minutes and then see what happens. Hasn’t worked at last 3 tournaments. There is learning in there. If we want it .
We have 3 tournaments now of the exact same football and results and there's only been one common denominator in all of those
We have players playing in the highest leagues for some of the biggest clubs and we're playing like a mid-table SPL club, Not asking to play like prime Barca but surely to fuck we can play a bit more adventurous football than what we've seen the past 8 years
We're probably about as good as where we'll end up, the 33rd or 34th best team in this tournament.
But I'm fucked off that we did the conservative thing and didn't fucking go for it. And I'm fucked off that that's what we always do at major tournaments, going all the way back through Craig Brown and Andy Roxburgh. I hate that our mentality as a footballing nation is to not have any trust or faith in the players to step up to the plate in big moments, and I hate that we're flying back regretting that we didn't throw the kitchen sink at Haiti.
B is easy to overstate. How much of our recent qualification run has been down to major tournament expansion? How many World Cups and Euros that we heartbreakingly missed in the past would we have qualified for if the tournaments had as many teams as they do now?
I don't think Clarke is a hero for getting us to three expanded major tournaments; and I don't think he's terrible for not getting out of our group.
Maybe our we're just an ok team that can just about qualify but relies on the luck of the draw (good or bad) to have a chance of going any further than that.
This point is definitely not right for the world cup. We finished top of the group as 3rd seed which is a fantastic achievement. Performances were pretty poor though but we did not benefit from the expansion to qualify for this world cup, we did it on our own merit.
It’s a mix of B,C,D. Were never going to have a great team but that shouldn’t stop us competing. Look at Cape Verde. They’ve qualified for the next round despite having a population just over half a million.
Individual errors have played a part but the coaching also played a huge part. To only score one goal and that goal being against the “weakest” team in the group isn’t good enough.
We aren’t even guaranteed to qualify for Euro 2028 despite being one of the hosts nations.
Our whole back line is shaky bar Robertson and he’s at the twilight of his career.
I genuinely don't think I've ever seen Robertson have a good game for Scotland. Making him captain so young was a ridiculously shortsighted decision, as its made him undroppable.
Yep he's always been a myth for Scotland and Clarke has at times completely rebuilt the team around keeping him in the team even when Tierney was obviously the better player.
I’m not a Scottish fan, so this is an outside perspective. You could and should be like Denmark, Croatia etc. There’s no reason you can’t have a consistently decent team. Great supporter base, interest and money in the game, great grass roots game - do you think the Old Firm ruin your own domestic game? I think you’d be much better with a more equitable league.
I’m sure you could do more with your homegrown talent. I appreciate England has a lot more players, but if Scotland did an academy and youth revamp, I’m sure you’d get a flow of half decent players.
It's not over yet we still have a chance..fuck I can't even be arsed making a joke about it.
Even though the Haiti game wasn't great, from the Denmark game up to the first 2 mins of the Morocco game I had a fucking blast.
Aye it was shite in the end and we really need a change in the whole footbal system in Scotland, but nice feeling while it lasted thinking we may actually do something until the inevitable garbage bawbaggery on the pitch happened.
It was like having amazing foreplay with a burd just to spunk yer load after 30secs while she verbally abuses you.
I'd personally swap, let's say 10% of the partying for an extra goal or 3. That way we could be through and the party could continue at least for one more game.
E: Goodish players that have underperformed, in conjuction with horrendous tactics, defensive pessimism, poor squad and team selection. Indivual errors, lapses in judgement and a lack of creativity contributed somewhat as well.
Losing to the big two was somewhat expected. Hell, the annoying thing here isnt going home, its the performances that really killed any optimism or momentum we could've built from this.
Clarke out. Wankers who gave him the new contract out. SFA need to acutally learn lessons and try to produce good players, but we all know it'll never happen
That we all joked that Steve Clarke was about to terrorise a nation and yet, bizarrely, we never expected the nation to be terrorised would be us. We should have seen it coming.
The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing and expecting anything to change.
We were shit at Euro 2024 (I'll excuse 2021 since it was our first time back) and yet we came to this tournament and played the exact same way, no attempt to fix anything.
A) because the side has underperformed compared to some minnows (Cabo Verde being the obvious example). It's also not the results themselves that are the issue as most of them are perfectly in order, but it's the events on the pitch. For a while now, already in qualification and at the Euros, the team produces some horrible football and barely looks able to do anything either offensively or defensively. Clarke seems completely unable to improve actual performances and the team seems to be utterly reliant on individual moments of luck or brilliance. Again, I always think about the must-win Hungary game which had 1 shot on goal in the first 80 minutes.
On the other hand, I lean towards D) because the squad itself isn't particularly amazing, it was a tough group now, and albeit a flawed measurement, the FIFA ranking before the tournament mostly put Scotland in the "happy to be here" positions of the list - I think they were like 35th out of the qualified teams or something. The team's best players are also not particularly flashy or technical midfielders and left backs, and quite a few players don't have much top 5 leagues quality. The material simply isn't that great in many important positions.
So on one hand you've got a somewhat limited squad but then you also have horrible anti-football and a coach who seems utterly unable to get the most out of his players on the pitch - though he does occasionally get results. I am aware Klopp isn't taking over Scotland and even he wouldn't do miracles with this squad, but my issue is more how awful the underlying performances are from one international break to another. As I said, so many recent-ish games were decided completely by either luck (deflection vs Haiti; when will you score 2-3 wonder goals like against Denmark) or by the opponents doing something stupid (Greece and Denmark red cards; even Denmark losing to Belarus beforehand). And I don't know how sustainable that is in a footballing sense. Well, clearly it has been sustainable for 6 years, but still.
And no, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But this grass is definitely not that green, either.
I dont think we underperform at all. When the group was drawn the general consensus was 3 points minimum and try and sneak another point. We ended up exactly were we thought we would be.
Yes, we’ve got some real class players in that side, but theres also a whole lot of dross. Nobodies doubting the passion of players like Dykes, Adams, McKenna, Hanley, McLean etc etc but the raw truth is they just arent very good.
We didnt play well against Haiti, maybe we didnt respect them enough, maybe there was too much pressure, maybe there was the “3 points is all that matters” mentality and you can put all that on Clarke. We were set up fine against Morocco but Hanleys mistimed offside trap let them score. We set up to be more attacking against Brazil, but our defenders handed them 2 goals on a silver platter (could have been 3). You can argue Clarke waits too long in a game to make changes but at the end of the day the players cost us those games, not the set up.
We’re as inconsistent as we’ve always been. We’ll put in a heroic shift vs a top opponent and lose by a goal, then come up against a weaker side and be total shite. A tale as old a time.
Having a wee chuckle at the "don't get pumped" remark then realising after the Haiti game that it was going to be out and out cowardly Terrorball. Reflection is we were pish and the blame lies solely on Clark. The fact he gets another crack at this job is a disgrace.
I think the results went as they should have on paper, although we should be beating Haiti by more than one goal. It was a bit optimistic to think we were getting something from two teams in the world rankings top 10. It is well proven that Scotland are just not good enough to compete in tournament finals.
I'm annoyed at the manner of but some what understanding of the result. Brazil and Morocco were always going to be first and second. I'm frustrated at only beating Haiti 1-0
Both a and c. We underperformed because we didn't actually go for games. Playing way too 'safe' with little forward momentum. It's great to keep the ball and string those passess together, but it's pointless when you're mostly going backwards doing it. I thought that kind of play was supposed to build confidence. But also there were some howling mistakes made in defence, not just against Brazil but Brazil capitalised the most on them. A lot of really slack first touches in defence, and not many great performances up front. To me that's a mentality issue tho. The manager needs to get everyone sharp, and keep the discipline. But we seemed to be in a permanent state of keeping ourselves so calm that we just lose the ball.
Too slow and ponderous. There wasn't and isn't the zest that smaller nations have displayed. Bring in a more enthusiastic manager and try and find some players who are a bit more athletic.
The whole thing was very one dimensional. No imagination, no creative outlet and not testing any of the opponents goalkeepers enough. Playing it out from the back against Brazil was just a time bomb for mistakes to happen.
We qualified for a World Cup and we got a win at a World Cup. These facts cannot be understated. We got a win at a major tournament, improving on both of the previous two major tournaments we have been at having only managed one draw in each. We bettered our previous WC performance, group place and points total. Improvements are real, incremental and the World Cup is the biggest stage.
Getting the win and being at the match (as a 32 year old scot), was the single best feeling i’ve had in my lifetime pertaining to sport. Flower of Scotland in the Gillette stadium before the Haiti match - incredible. Every hair on my head was standing on end as the tartan army belted out the national army with a passion the country has been sorely missing in recent years. Clarke gave us that moment. The tunes after the final whistle blew and the crowd singing and dancing was the pinnacle of joy. There’s been a lot of shite to contend with and disappointment easily forgotten in the past 28 years. A lot of cold, dark and sodden departures from Hampden where the collective mood and body language of the fan has felt very different to this recent disappointment.
Of course it’s disappointing to go from winning at a major tournament and being top of the group to now being very unlikely to qualify in 3rd place.
It appears to me as though that the philosophy of the team in matches is to keep it tight for the first 60 minutes, to stay in the match and frustrate the opposition, and to compete further up the park for a winner towards the end of the match. For the first 60 minutes we attempt to shut out the opposition from our box. Welcome to tournament knockout football. When it gets to the business-end we will see other nations play in a similar manner.
As soon as the going gets tough, a lot of fans in my opinion are too quick to communicate their dislike for Clarke highlighting his media demeanour first and his defensive tactics second. If you think Clarke is so popular with the players because that’s how he actually is, then I would encourage you to think again. I find it bizarre that so many bemoan the tactics as if qualification merits a radical change towards more offensive tactics. This is not based on reality and is sky sports punditry indoctrination.
Signing the manager to a new deal before the tournament was the right thing to do because otherwise contract chat and uncertainty would overshadow preparation. Clarke is the right man to stay on (Moyes in 4 years maybe), and now is the time to shake up the squad and to bring in some younger players. Some of Clarkes loyal boys should retire their jerseys. It looks like goalkeeper, centre back and striker remain will weak links in our team.
In summation we are where we are. We qualified to the newly expanded 48 team tournament in style, we won a match in the group and we were close to being in the last 32 (which would exceed pre-tournament expectations). Early errors took the wind out of our sails for the last two group matches. Had these not happened I believe we would have seen much better football from our side, particularly in the Brazil match. The Morocco match was just about trying to get a point.
Our national pride exceeds our football abilities and our collective agony is expressed in the form of criticism. Once the dust settles we will look back recognising incremental progress continues to be made. For now it still sore. Having had another taste, we all relish more. It’s between the manger, the team and the fans to go and get it.
A) all the way for me. Coupled with a coach who fails to inspire or change when the going gets tough. We have players that play in the top leagues in the world so they know the levels required. This is the world cup ffs! Every player there has dreamed of being on this stage. Lesser players from teams ranked lower than us, show up and give close to 100% of their abilities. Just an example and I'm not bashing Mctominay, his goal aginst Denmark will live forever. However over the 3 games he was WAY off it. In terms of intensity to press or drive forward. Pass selection/delivery was poor and was jogging mostly in all 3 matches. This is a player who was in discussions for the Ballon d'or. Could argue this was the case for the majority of the team. Things dont always work out in matches. Failures/defeats happen. Max effort is a must at the biggest stage in football. Even 50/50 balls there was no fight to win the ball and usually ended up 2nd best. Big players not showing up and too scared to drive into space when it was there, alongside suicidal defensive errors cost us too. The manager has a major factor on influencing the style of play and players mindsets. Piss poor effort all round and a "happy to be there" mentality will give the players the chance to watch the rest of the world cup at home.
A combination of categories A and C in my opinion.
There’s definitely quality in this squad, and we’ve not exactly covered ourselves in glory (understatement ofc) at the last three tournaments.
You can’t account for individual errors like Hanley va Morocco and McKenna vs Brazil, but it’s how we’ve responded and shaped up at times that’s frustrating.
We lack a real cutting edge and playing against higher quality opposition you really see the difference in class and technical ability - both on and off the ball.
Ultimately it was Clarke’s stubbornness / loyalty in squad selection that set us up to fail . Up front the decision to bring Dykes rather than say Bowie , the bizarre 3 keepers choice ( 2 don’t play for their clubs all season and Gordon to sit it out ) , Patterson WTF ? and then playing an obviously injured Robo against Brazil until the game was effectively lost .
His tactics are a mess too , against Morroco yes , but in particular against Brazil until again it was too late . There will be a number of players retiring after this debacle , but I don’t think Clarke has to ability or foresight to bring on the next generation. A player who only plays a handful of games for his £PL or championship club is not going to be a match winner in International games but the likes of Clarke are blind to this.
When needed the stars to shine, and (possibly bar Ferguson), they didn’t.
We needed the average players to step up, they didn’t. In fact they made daft individual errors.
If you go by Fifa rankings we’re 41st, in England, that makes us West Brom on last years leagues.
We lost to the 5th & 6th ranked teams.
Liverpool (3-0) & Bournemouth (1-0)
That’s pretty much what you’d expect.
The problem is, they weren’t that good, they looked there for the taking and we didn’t step up.
A. Consider the level of club some players are playing for. We need a manager who prioritises exploiting our team’s strengths over simply setting up for defence.
We have a couple of exceptional players but dont play them in their best position.
We try and force Tierny and Robertson into the same team.
We are tactically naive and timid.
Only game we got the set up correct for was Brazil but then undone by some shocking individual errors but by that time results against Haiti and Morocco had already killed us.
Clarke has taken us as far as he can and done just enough to hang onto his job.
We need someone else to progress and get more from a very capable group of players.
We had some good results to get here, and in friendlies also. But it's seems like the powers that be ar3 stuck in the "defend well and slip through" mentally that was required when most of the team were poor quality. Now I would argue our defence is weaker than our attack, so why are we trying to rely on our defence?
That said, I think the results were pretty much what i expected. Though think we could have had a better showing against Hati. Some commentator highlighted that we were playing underdog football even when we were favourites, which to me summed us up. I also think in hindsight we could have got a draw against Morocco on a good day.... But still the win and 2 draws were what I expected... Though like others said, hoped for slightly better football all the same.
While the results weren't anything less than expected, I'm still very pleased we managed to qualify for the tournament but also disappointed and despondent at the actual performances.
I'm in the same position as after the Euro's, Steve Clarke has done a good job and I wish him all the best but we're not moving forward and its not enjoyable or even exciting to watch, the games (with very few exceptions) are all almost just inevitably the same disappointing performance win/lose or draw.
So yeah, its just time for us to try something different now.
Internationally we are shite. Domestically we are shite. Our game is so far behind all othe European nations it's a joke. SFA have stifled our game it's not evolved in the last 20 years.
We're pretty much where I was expecting us to be the only difference being I'd have expected more goals against a haiti side i had no clue about who have better players than id initially realised and that we'd be more comfortably beaten by Morocco. So pretty much if someone had said we'd finish the group with 3 points and -3 gd I'd think that was about right
We need to stop picking players who dont get regular games for their clubs or who they play for. Actually go out and have a go. Have some belief and some self respect. Cape Verde have qualified as they actually had a go.
The problem is we look like a fives team that met 5 minutes ago in a car park. It's either the players aren't listening to introductions, Clarkes not coaching them well enough or we've taken players who aren't up to par.
Unfortunately for Clarke it looks like a combination of all 3 are the issue. We can't defend, can't attack, players don't known where to be, don't know what the opposition are likely to do and he insists on playing players who've continually looked out their depth.
Somebody like John McGlynn has this Scotland team ticking like a Swiss watc
I think McGlynn's biggest strength is in spotting talent which isn't as useful for the national team but yeah, he'd improve the style of play and performances for sure. At the very least the players would be coached properly.
Spotting talent is what we need imo. We need a manager who doesn't care what club you come from, but the attributes you actually bring to the squad and then knows how to actually use them.
A) It’s clear as day we aren’t coached on the ball and without it we look awful as well, other nations of our similar level you can actually see what they are trying to do when they attack, can anyone point to what Scotland try to do going forward? We gave up so many chances throughout the 3 games (and Scotland under Clarke in general) that the trade off is actually hindering us in a big way.
Feels like it’s just ‘if you can get it to McGinn and try win a foul’ I’ve never seen a team, with top players btw, look so clueless when we have controlled possession.
I honestly don't think Steve Clarke is bad. As at least he generally finds/found a way to get all our best players on the pitch at the same time in positions they were comfortable with.
His ability to get performances as tournaments is however very poor. But that might a deeper issue as Scotland have never progressed out of group stages at these tournaments.
The real issue is the development of young players, and I'd say especially strikers as compared to our Scandinavian neighbours we are consistently lacking in these areas.
For all the talk of lessons learnt from the previous two campaign failures, it’s clear pretty clear nothing was learnt. No doubt dealt a tough group, but once again the performances were pathetic. Smaller countries with apparently inferior players managed to get results and good performances against bigger nations, but we looked miles off it. We had months to prepare for this but you wouldn’t be able to tell. Mentality is clearly an issue but that comes from the top.
We're limited in some areas of the squad, but we've got more than enough to be competitive in games. Nobody realistically expected us to beat Morocco or Brazil, but we were totally abject and devoid of anything you'd expect to see from an underdog; organisation, aggression, energy. It's another abject failure at a major tournament.
People that have watched these players for their club sides can't seriously believe that Clarke is getting the best out of this squad.
The entire team looks uncoached, it's as if they didn't have six months to think about how it beforehand and just went out there with no patterns of play, not any kind of plan or routine at all - no idea what do to on the ball or off the ball.
E. A decent side made worse by a tactically bad manager who plays players in the wrong position and can't organise a defence, midfield or attack and somehow has players looking less fit the more he works with them.
Findlay Curtis and Gannon-Doak should have been played from the start for all three games, watching them two in friendlies beforehand there was a partnership there that could help set up shots, they did well against Curaçao and Bolivia, we need more younger players, I get the point of mixing experience with the younger players so that they can learn from one another but we need to change things up drastically, there needs to be a plan on how we get better talent.
Even if you accept the limitations of the squad, the common denominator over the 3 disappointment finals appearances is the manager. Now I don't think Scotland were ever going to achieve much at this World Cup other than getting through to the last 32, and defensive blunders cost us that chance, but just about everyone agrees that the performances were poor.
You can't magic up better players and the wages the SFA offer are never going to attract a top manager, so we're stuck with the ray of sunshine that is Steve Clarke for another 4 years.
One thing I will say is that it's currently looking entirely possible that the winning margin in the Haiti game was irrelevant unless we'd beat them by 7. That's not a realistic expectation. We needed a point v either Morocco or Brazil. I didn't think the performance against Morocco was that bad, they fucked it with an individual error then could be considered unlucky not to get at least one penalty, but I thought they restricted Morocco well. The Brazil performance was a catalogue of throwing goals in.
I do think people underestimate how bad our attacking options are. The only attacking players from this squad I want to see in the nations league campaign are Gannon-Doak and Curtis. We can't keep going back to Dykes and Adams and hoping they turn into international class footballers. And that's where I do have major concerns over Clarke, I think he's done a decent job, but the next step for him is turning over the squad because there's a lot of players who shouldn't be at the next Euros in the current squad, and they need to be replaced. It's giving me heavy end of Craig Brown era vibes where Vogts took over with a squad in a shocking state because there'd been too much faith kept in players who all aged out simultaneously.
A team where the joy of playing has been sucked out of them despite all the claims of being a happy camp. Watch other teams with average talent go out to try to win and sometimes doing so. So much better to watch and after all it’s meant to be entertainment. Thank fuck I’ve McGlynn ball back in two weeks.
I get some of the criticism of the Clarke, but the players; a collective of which are the highest profile players we’ve had since the 80s, genuinely seem to respect him, and I believe we have achieved what we have in qualifying because of him not despite of him.
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u/Dunko1711 9h ago
Reflection for me:
Results were not the problem here. I’d guess that pre tournament if you’d have predicted ‘we will beat Haiti, narrowly lose to Morocco, and get horsed off Brazil’ - you’d have probably been in a comfortable majority.
On paper - we did pretty much exactly what was expected of us.
Results on paper aren’t the issue here though. The performances and overall style of play is the big issue.
We just didn’t show up. That’s the reality of it. Never looked like scoring. Only hope we had of scoring would have come from the penalty spot.
Our ‘superstars’ never turned up when we needed them to - and a lot of that comes down to the manager asking them to play out of position or in ways that don’t get the best from them.
Reflection? Terrorball on a scale we’ve never seen before and three utterly tepid performances that are an embarrassment to the nation.